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The following is an e-mail sent to me by a Pastor in Illinois named Jim Duncan.

 

I am a pastor of a Reformed Southern Baptist Church in Southern Illinois and have been for almost 13 years. We have not been reformed all 13 years.  Reformation came slowly but surely over a few years.  As I was scanning the sbc website for churches who are seeking pastors, I came across your church.  I like to keep abreast of such things so I can spread the word to my pastor friends who might be seeking a church to pastor.  Anyway, when I saw your church the "elder led" phrase in your description caught my eye and I had to investigate further.  I was pleased with what I read in your statement of faith, until I read the section on The Second Coming of Christ.  I was disappointed to see that you all have landed on the pretrib, premill side of eschatology.  And without making this a long drawn out letter, I was wondering if you could answer just one question for me.  Since you believe in the pretrib interpretation, which states that the Church shall be "caught up" before the tribulation begins and then the man of sin will be revealed as well as the great falling away, how do you explain II Thessalonians 2:1-3?  This text plainly teaches that the "gathering together" i.e. "the rapture" cannot happen until "the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed".  This one verse alone caused my previously held pretrib views to come crashing down, and I realized how feeble the whole pretrib view was.  So, as a former pretriber,  I pose the same question to you all.  I realize you don't have to answer this, but I am just curious as to how you deal with this text.

 

The following was my initial response to Jim.

 

First, let me take the opportunity to thank you about your inquiry concerning the churches stance on pretribulational premillennialism.  Too many people choose to despise the doctrine before really taking the time to understand it.

 

Second, let me inform you that I am no longer the Pastor at that church.  This does not alter the doctrinal stance of the church to any of my knowledge but I want to be completely forthcoming about my response.  I tried to remove my e-mail address from all of the churches website, I apparently missed one somewhere which I am going to correct post-haste.  I am no longer a representative of Solid Rock Baptist Church so I want to be clear I am not attempting to misrepresent them in any way.  If you would like further clarification about the churches stance at this point in time please e-mail Ross McMorris at the address listed on the ‘contacts’ page of the churches website.

 

Third, and final before dealing with the text mentioned in your previous e-mail, there are some trouble spots in the reformed position that make accepting the doctrine of pretribulational premillennialism precautiously precarious preacher (sorry, I just had to do that.) (A) The reformed stance does not always see or allow for the separate entities of the church and Israel and generally confuses the two in one of three ways: (1) the church has replaced Israel, (2) the church has absorbed Israel or (3) the church should abandon Israel.  (B) The reformed position does not accept the doctrine of dispensationalism – progressive dealing of God with man in various stages of human spiritual development - and continues to hold on to covenantial theology – an approach that focuses on the dealing of God with man in terms of the covenants entered into by God on mans behalf.  Although this is not true for all reformed people it is true for some.  I hope I am not misunderstanding you or where you are at.  I will tell you up front that I am a dispensationalist and would also like to discuss any questions you have in this area in subsequent e-correspondence.

 

Fourth, I would like to deal with the question you raised concerning the text in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.  The passage states (NASB), “1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the £apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.”  I mention here the entire passage because it is to be taken in context of not only what it is trying to say but also in reference to what is being said around it.  There was apparently much confusion in the church over what not only had been taught by Paul in person but also how other teachers – both with pure motives and impure – had picked up the teaching.  I would like to now pose seven items for you meditation in this area that deal with this passage of scripture.

 

  1. This assembling together with Christ is not just the rapture but also the initial stages of resurrection of all the saints of the church age who are not presently deceived.  The ‘our’ of this passage is the culmination of all believers in all times past, present (in Paul’s day) and future (our present and beyond al the way to Christ’s feet touching the Mount of Olives).  So this must be talking about another group other than just Christians proper or in any limited sense.
  2. It is interesting that the passage tells Christians to not abandon their composure, i.e. their position of belief off what was initially taught and what could be considered the simplest interpretation.  I think this is also fitting advice for those who consider their positions for and against pretribulational premillennialism and that we should like the Bereans search the Word daily for answers to these things.
  3. The focus of this passage is to assure all readers that the day of the Lord – generally understood as the time frame where God deals with the house of Jacob as promised over and over again in the Old Testament – not necessarily the rapture which is a moment in time event and adequately supported by other scripture other than this non-rapture specific account.  In verse 1 Paul tells us that the events are separate by how he addresses them as individual items, “with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our gathering together to Him.”  It would make sense that the initial and subsequent misunderstandings about this issue all involve time – and a rather long period of it – as it applies to these items of Christ’s return and the gathering of believers both by way of scripture and the encompassing 2000 years of Christian history from Pentecost up till today.
  4. Paul issues two items on the checklist of things that have to happen BEFORE the two items under discussion – as mentioned below –  are addressed like Christ’s coming to destroy the man of lawlessness and how the saved of God (both pretribulational and successive) are gathered to Christ in:
    1. The apostasy or falling away and
    2. Revealing of the man of lawlessness
  5. John states in his first epistle (2:8) that Antichrist is already in the world and Paul echoes that here in verse 7 although this spirit is not yet in bodily form.
  6. Paul would like to point out to the Thessalonians that the man of lawlessness is already there being restrained by the Holy Spirit although not in a bodily form as he will be at the time of the signing of the covenant which he himself will break further identifying himself as ‘not God’ since God cannot violate His word.  This will be the strong testimony to the Jews at the mid point of the tribulation that they have followed a ‘not messiah’ and preparing their hearts for the one who will come, Jesus Christ.
  7. John 16:6-11 tells us that one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgment.  Here in verse 11 we are told that God will have to send a deluding influence so as to assure their proper placement in judgment since the Holy Spirit has been taken out of the way and the man of lawlessness is no longer restrained so by this point thee has been a major shift in how people are judged during the tribulation.  This is why I do not see the ‘he’ of verse 7 and the ‘what’ of verse 6 here as identifying the church or the rapture and why Paul does switch to ‘they’ in verse 11 to speak of those who will be deceived both Jew and Gentile category unsaved.

 

So the gathering together does not mean the rapture.  The gathering together indicates a point of final culmination after a long period of time to complete God’s dealing with Israel.  Those who see this in terms of the church must understand that Paul and all who read this letter first are dead and Ecclesiastes tells us that the dead do not know anything so there will be no revelation of the man of lawlessness to them so it makes more sense that Paul was referring to those who know the scriptures – saved and not – in passages like Daniel 9:27 to evaluate who this man of lawlessness is.  Not all who get the revelation of who the man of lawlessness is will be saved, in fact God will harden some hearts like Pharaoh of old to secures there judgment in absence of the Holy Spirit in the hearts and lives of men.  Personally I believe that the man of lawlessness will be reveled by the Holy Spirit to those He chooses before the rapture and before the man of lawlessness comes to power.  I do not see any reason why this is not possible.

 

Please remember that the purpose of the rapture is to preserve Christians from the wrath of God as typified by the day of Jacob’s trouble or more commonly called the tribulation.  This is because Christianity as we know it today will cease to be when the Holy Spirit is removed, a facet explained by dispensationalists, as part and partial of this area of time we call the church ages successively experienced as Revelation 2 and 3 purport.  Any stance that states any Christian must see or endure any part of the tribulation cheapens the cross of Christ who not only paid the penalty for our sins but also bore ALL of God’s wrath towards sinners for all time.  Yet we all see the spirit of the man of lawlessness – antichrist – who has come into the world not in a body as he soon will but in philosophies and traditions that hold men aloof from simple faith and salvation.

 

We would agree that the teaching of eschatology is an advanced subject with many saved men disagree with one another.  I am not so naïve to think that this one letter will answer all of your questions but this I hope is a start.  I urge you to not abandon your composure and study this further with resources like, “Dispensationalism” by Chrales C. Ryrie and “Daniel and Revelations” by Clarence Larkin.  I would also caution you in the Lord that you should not let one passage of scripture stand alone in your teachings to sway you one way or the other.  I urge you to do as Christ insisted on the principle that two or three witnesses should prove a thing.  I cannot tell you what to believe, that is between God and yourself, yet I am willing to answer any further questions you might have so that as iron sharpens iron we might sharpen each other.  Should the opportunity ever present itself and you would like someone to present this side of thought please consider me as I would love to come and share since we have friends who live in Terre Haut, Indiana and would love an excuse to visit them on the same trip.  I also wanted to let you know that I will be submitting my answer to two of my close friends to ensure I have adequately explained the passage in context.

 

                                                                                    THPP

                                                                                    Pastor Steve

 

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Any Questions?  Contact the Webbservant at…  stephen.mack.howard@juno.com