An interview with Senator Panfilo 'Ping' Lacson

SENATOR Panfilo Lacson is the devil incarnate to some, a stern upholder of the rule of law for others. As head of the former President Joseph Estrada’s Presidential Anti-Organized Crime Taskforce and later as chief of the Philippine National Police, Lacson has been dogged by allegations of conducting summary executions, kidnappings, bribery, and rebellion. The whistleblowers have ranged from alleged former PAOCTF civilian agent who went by the name of Ador (Angelo Mawanay in real life), to another who went by the name of Rosebud (Mary Ong). The latest of these allegations have been made by Inquirer columnist Ramon Tulfo, a former friend and ally.

In an exclusive interview with INQ7.net staffmembers Fe B. Zamora, JV Rufino, Lira Dalangin and Getsy Selirio, Lacson counters the charges leveled against him, discusses his plans in the Senate, and blames his refusal to let friendship stand in the way of his investigations for the falling away of so many erstwhile allies.

Due to its length, Part One of the interview is divided into the following sections:

The Opposition in the Senate
On Ador and Corpus
If you were President
Lacson and God

Part Two, of the interview dealing with the allegations of columnist Ramon Tulfo is divided into the following sections:
Mon Tulfo: a friend turned enemy
Berroya and the white papers
Held in Halifax
‘More hurt than angry’

Part Three of the interview which deals mainly with Lacson’s legislative agenda in the Senate will be posted later.

Since the interview was conducted in both English and Filipino, some editing has been made to ensure clarity. We have retained some of the original words, phrases or sentences said in Filipino to preserve the flavor of the interview.

The Opposition in the Senate

INQ7.net: Could you tell us about the meeting of the Senate opposition last night?

Senator Lacson: We’re just strengthening our ties.

INQ7.net: Why is it loosening?

Sen. Lacson: We’re just making sure we’re meeting regularly. We also talked about our agenda and how to cock the guns of August. Cock, kasa. That’s a figure of speech. It's a figure of speech. During World War I, merong sinabi noon may sinabing guns of august. Meaning expect some fireworks in the Senate.

INQ7.net: Can you give us a preview?

Sen. Lacson: We may start off with the Mike Arroyo investigation. Of course, the IMPSA (the Argentine power firm, Industrias Metalurgicas Pescarmona Sociedad Anonima – Ed.) scandal where some large sums of money changed hands. And we are looking into all these cases.

INQ7.net: Will the opposition in the Senate gain more members?

Sen. Lacson: Yes. That’s why we are always meeting.

INQ7.net: How many?

Sen. Lacson: Some.

INQ7.net: Like who?

Sen. Lacson: Some of them.

INQ7.net: What’s the deal?

Sen. Lacson: Some of these people, when they see that this administration is not easy to defend, they will on their own leave Like (Sen. Ramon) Magsaysay. He is LAMP. But when Erap was about to be impeached, Magsaysay joined the opposition. We are thinking of those kinds.

INQ7.net: The travelers.

Sen. Lacson: No, no, no. These are the independent minded.

INQ7.net: Yong committee chairmanships. Any committees that you would like to chair in particular?

Sen. Lacson: We heard that we will not be given any committee chairmanships, only memberships, because di naman pwedeng walang committee membership ‘yong opposition. That's what we heard.

INQ7.net: There are 36 committees and 24 senators. There's enough for everybody.

Sen. Lacson: That's what we were told initially. It's really OK with us whether they change their minds or not. It's OK with us.

INQ7.net: Are you not going to challenge ...?

Sen. Lacson: No. Let them handle all the committees. Anyway, kapag natulog naman ‘yong bill namin sa committee (if our bill sleeps in the committee), we can take them out to the floor, according to Senate rules. We can get I think five signatures and we can just take out the bill and tackle it out on the floor. So it reflects on the efficiency of the committees, or the chairman at least.

INQ7.net: Any particular committee you would like to chair?

Sen. Lacson: I'm interested in the Public Order and Illegal Drugs committee, because that’s where I came from.

INQ7.net: That's two committees?

Sen. Lacson: No. Just one committee. It's chaired by Senator (Robert) Barbers. Of course, everybody is interested in the CA (Commission on Appointments). Because membership in the CA is just like... it's a major committee.

INQ7.net: Barbers is rather sickly? Will he still get a committee?

Sen. Lacson: Yes, because he is with the majority. Anyway, the opposition already talked about it last night. It's fine with us if they don't want to give us any committee chairmanships.

INQ7.net: Will they tackle these issues raised against you?

Sen. Lacson: I don't know. It's up to them. I am prepared naman. My conscience is clear as I explained when I wrote my letter.

A friend turned enemy page 1 of 1Senator Panfilo Lacson INQ7.net: Are you still planning to sue for libel?

Sen. Lacson: It's a toothless case but I consulted my lawyer. I think we will push through.

INQ7.net: Why do you say it’s toothless?

Sen. Lacson: Wala eh. What will you derive out of libel? Tapos, makaaway ko pa yong editor nyo. Makaaway ko pa publisher nyo? Dadami pa yong kaaway ko dahil lang sa kasinungalingan nang isang tao. Or sa irresponsibility nang isang tao. (What will you derive out of it? I will just be fighting with your editor and publisher. I will have more enemies just because of the lies or irresponsibility of one person.)

INQ7.net: Were you and Tulfo really good friends before?

Sen. Lacson: We were quite close because when he was a police reporter he was covering us. And from then on, we developed this friendship. I think this started when (Director General Roberto) Lastimoso became Philippine National Police chief, there was this rumor that somehow he (Lastimoso) would be relieved, Tulfo talked to me. You see Tulfo is an adopted member of Class 1967 where Lastimoso belongs. Tulfo said if Erap (former president Joseph Estrada) offers you this, don’t accept it. He was that blunt. Siguro sangkaterba na ang nainom nuon (He probably had too much to drink).

I said, Mon, if it’s offered to me, or if I'm given that assignment, I cannot say no because he is the commander in chief. But if he asks me if I want it then maybe I can tell him (Estrada), not at this time, Sir, since I’m still a junior. But if he says you go there I cannot say no. But Tulfo insisted that even if it was offered to me I should refuse.

For my part, I just let it go. I held my temper, napipikon na din ako nuon (I was beginning to get annoyed). The day after a common friend of ours told him, Mon, why did you talk that way to General Lacson, that’s wrong. Apparently he didn’t even know what he was saying that night. That’s okay with me. And then when I was appointed chief of the PNP, the long list of the payola (bribe money) for the reporters came to my attention. I called our comptroller. What’s this? The comptroller said that has been there for sometime.

INQ7.net: So that's accurate, that there’s a list…

Sen. Lacson: So I asked the comptroller, if we stop this what will happen? The comptroller said that’s up to you you’re the chief of the PNP. I said this is too much, I’ll just give the money to the police.

INQ7.net: This is the 1.7 million pesos a month?

Sen. Lacson: It’s about 1.6 to 1.8 million pesos, I don’t remember now. That’s monthly. Tulfo’s take was very prominent because it was the biggest. I cannot forget it. Two hundred fifty thousand pesos monthly. After that he started to criticize me bit by bit although I ignored it. And then there were more criticisms. Until I said in one radio interview that when I took over the PNP I found out about the payola and I mentioned his name. Then his exposés started.

As I wrote in my letter to the editor I wanted to keep quiet. Maybe it will just come to pass. On second thought … there were two white papers, one circulated in 1995 by (Makati Councilor Bobby) Brillante but which also came from (former PNP intelligence chief Col. Reynaldo) Berroya. Because in 1995 Berroya was detained at the ISAFP (Intelligence Service of the Armed Forces of the Philippines). His trial was ongoing.

Then in 1998, the white paper was re-circulated and they added some more things. It was around election time when Berroya was released from Muntinglupa. This was it. Some of the columns of Tulfo, if you’ve read the white paper, were word for word lifted. Verbatim. He didn’t even edit. And then he claims these were said by unnamed sources. The sources he has mentioned are the white paper of Berroya. These are all falsehoods.

INQ7.net: How is Mrs. Lacson taking that part about her?

Sen. Lacson: Of course she’s affected… anyone would… I told her to just ignore it.

INQ7.net: Is that why you are taking legal redress, because of that portion?

Sen. Lacson: No, but because it’s way too much. He hits you then you don’t respond. He hits you again and you still keep quiet… It’s foul, below the belt. All lies. It’s so easy to verify the truth. For instance, he says that I was the one responsible for the death of (Reginald Hill, former husband of Alice de Perio-Lacson). You can easily check that because it’s a matter of public record. Look at the police report, the hospital records. Verify with the Insurance Commissioner’s office. Look at the census, the death certificate. You will see the cause of death. Why are you so irresponsible? Don’t tell me that the facts were deliberately twisted so that his writings would be exciting?

INQ7.net: Do you think the information in Tulfo’s columns were deliberately twisted?

Sen. Lacson: Yes. Yes. What else would you call that? If Tulfo were really after the truth, he could have checked his facts.

INQ7.net: I would like to think that since you were friends before, he might have met Mrs. Lacson sometime before ...?

Sen. Lacson: No.

INQ7.net: Were you two godfathers to any of your children?

Sen. Lacson: No. Our friendship was like … we just kidded around. We weren’t that close.

INQ7.net: Mon mentioned someone, the late Oscar Beltran, was a common friend?

Sen. Lacson: Yes.

INQ7.net: But he died ...

Sen. Lacson: Yes. Of cancer ... Mon was very supportive of me because he knew me. At least up to now, at least up to now, I think he knows me. He knows my character. Even when I was provincial director in Laguna, he knew I never received even a single centavo from jueteng operators. And he loved to write about it. He wrote about it so many times.

He knows because he has been asking for money from the provincial directors. But he couldn’t get anything from me. There’s this incident with an official – I won’t mention his name – who was asked by Tulfo for ‘retroactive’ payments to him. I pitied the official.

INQ7.net: There were arrears?

Sen. Lacson: He told the official – you’ve been assigned to so many juicy positions. You’ve forgotten about me. At 10,000 pesos a month you owe me 120,000 pesos. The official gave him the money since they were on the take. They were receiving, I mean the officers. What could they do? They have to come across because they have that weakness. They’re receiving something from illegal activities. Tulfo even said, never mind Ping, he is not receiving anything so I won’t ask him, but you… The official gave him the money.

I don’t read Tulfo’s columns. The things he writes about are told to me by my friends. I never bothered reading him…
INQ7.net: Even before?
Sen. Lacson: Only when these issues came about. When the information in the columns was narrated to me, I said I already know about that, it’s in a white paper. I was able to read the white paper in 1995, in 1998. That’s why I know it’s from a white paper. For example, what (Francisco "Kit") Mateo was saying (that he was forced to falsely testify against General Alqueza and Berroya in an alleged kidnapping case). He has already retracted that, and there was even an editor’s notes to Tulfo’s column about this.

That’s so unfair. You already know it’s been retracted, why print it? Why write about it? That’s why I attached Mateo’s affidavit. Actually it wasn’t a retraction. What he said was that he was practically fed all the information that he talked about. Why did he have to write about it. And the editor’s note was so small. Eh, pino-portray nila akong as parang napaka-walanghiya, parang demonyo (They’re portraying me as shameless, like the devil himself).

INQ7.net: Do you feel a sense of betrayal with regards to what happened between you and Mon Tulfo?

Sen. Lacson: Probably with regards to our friendship. But if you’re talking about the details of what he said, he wasn’t ‘betraying’ anything because what he said were all lies.

INQ7.net: When last time you talked to him?

Sen. Lacson: Ah, matagal na. After the … di ko na ma-recall. Noong chief PNP na ako di na kami nakapag-usap. After the payola (revealation), wala nang communication. (It’s been a long time, I don’t recall when. After I became PNP chief we didn’t talk anymore.)

INQ7.net: So you really believe that payola exposé triggered it?

Sen. Lacson: Yes. Definitely. He was ‘losing’ P250,000…

INQ7.net: But it’s only recently that Tulfo started his series of columns on you?

Sen. Lacson: Noon dati panay papuri niya sa akin, very consistent. Kung babalikan natin ang columns niya from way way back, lahat papuri nga (He used to praise me consistently in his columns. If we examine his columns from way way back they are all in praise of me). So why?

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