by Bob Pomeroy

Some bands want to be pop stars. Their goal is to write catchy songs that millions of people will love. Some pop stars hope that they can write songs that have some larger social message that will change the world. Then there is a band like the Ex who measure success on their own terms. Success means continuing to grow and evlove as musicians and people. Originating in Amsterdam's politically charged squatter community, the Ex have been using music as a tool for social experimentation and growth since 1979. Over the years, the band has played everything from hard driving punk rock to improvised music with jazz players. In their newsletter, Ex describe their music as "having developed over the years into a melting pot of divergent musical styles, interweaving noise, folk, jazz and ethnic music. Other features are the discordant, highly rhythmic guitar work, the rolling almost African drumming style and the furious way in which Sok delivers his often sarcastic lyrics."

From the beginning, the Ex forged alliances with like minded musicians. Early on it was with other socialist/anarchist groups like the Mekons and Chumbawamba. As the groups interests expanded, they formed alliances with ethnic musicians from around the globe and avant garde jazz musicians like cellist Tom Cora. As the group enters its 20th year, the Ex continue to challenge the social and musical status quo.

The Ex first hit record stores with an EP called "All Corpses Smell The Same" in 1980.

Some highlights of their recording career include Blueprint for a Blackout and Mudbird Shivers. Other discs show the band's explorations in collaboration. Joggers & Smoggers was recorded in Amsterdam's squatted ADM-complex with Dutch jazz players Ab Baars, Wolter Wierbos, Wilf Plum, and Sonic Youth's Lee Ranaldo and Thurston Moore. The double CD shows the band at its most extreme, jazzy and experimental. A different sort of experimental collaborations began in 1991 with Scrabbling At The Lock, the band's first recording with American cellist Tom Cora. The Ex and Tom Cora recorded a second disc, And The Weathermen Shrugged their Shoulders in 1994. Members of the Ex continued to play with Cora until just days before his untimely death from cancer last year.

Starters Alternators is the new disc from the Ex. It's being released in the US by Touch & Go who are also the current home of the Mekons. Touch & Go is a good match for a band more interested in continual growth and exploration than putting hits on the pop charts. Touch & Go have thrived for close to two decades in an indie environment where labels burn out almost as fast as bands. The label is also home to old friends, the Mekons. The Ex are Terrie on guitar, G.W. Sok (Jos to friends) on vocals, Katrin plays drums and sings, Andy (one time member of Dog Faced Hermans) also plays guitar and Luc plays bass. Another former DFH-er, Colin does sound and Yoke is in charge of sales and both are considered full members of the band. What follows is the result of a transatlantic e-mail interview with Andy and Jos of the Ex. A few bits were aslo nicked from the band's on-line newsletter.

MOE: My first introduction to the Ex was through the discs you did with Tom Cora. You've also collaborated with other jazz musicians (Joggers &Smoggers) and even non-musicians. How did these collaborations begin?

ANDY: "These collaborations began very early on in the bands history and my feeling is that they come about because there is an openness and a willingness to experiment amongst the members and that we are not afraid to put ourselves in unusual musical situations that we can't control or foresee the outcome of... it's exciting and keeps the music alive. Our most recent collaborations have been with the Instant Composers Pool (an incredible collection of fantastic improvisers based in Holland) and with Tortoise which I guess you know about. In both cases we had big question marks above our heads, wondering what kind of strange music will arise from playing with these people? There were moments with both groups where it worked fantastically and other moments where it didn't... that is normal but I think it's important that we leave things open enough so that ideas and musicians can breathe a bit... and that there is then always a chance it'll work great or fall flat on its face... in both cases we learn a lot, which partly answers your second question. I find it very absorbing to listen to musicians who are trying, and searching to make their music work together. We didn't rehearse with Tortoise at all but there was enough intuitive listening and enthusiasm to make it work...there are wobbly bits in our playing but after two or three listens they become important musical moments that you get used to and would miss if they were suddenly surgically removed. Working in this way leaves much more room for happy accidents, strange combinations of sounds and inspired moments where it all falls into place."

MOE: How do these collaborations influence the Ex music on an ongoing basis?

ANDY: "It's hard to be specific about who what and how other musicians have influenced us... we listen to such a wide variety of styles of music both live and on CD it's almost too much. I think in the end it all filters through somehow and often in retrospect we might notice "hey we must've picked that up from listening to all that Ugandan folk music last month or from having played with someone a year ago". Its amazing how wide our musical roots begin to spread simply because we now have such unbelievable

access to every possible kind of music... that's why I say it's almost too much... if you imagine the sheer variety and quantity of music that we've had the chance to listen to compared with musicians from only 30 years ago.. in some ways we are bombarded with way too many things and have to keep a bit of focus on our own thing and make very specific choices, otherwise things could get very chaotic."

MOE: I've heard some wild stories about Dutch jazz percussionist Han Bennink. What was it like playing with him and what was the craziest thing he ever did on stage?

ANDY: "We first heard about Han in our early punk days via Wim, who was the drummer with the Rondos at the time and who now plays with De Kift. He described Han as this crazy drummer who tried to saw the stage in half at the Doelen, a kind of semi-posh club in Rotterdam."

JOS: "Han is one of the most exciting and energetic musicians I've ever played with. I love it. I always feel like my concentration is stretched to its maximum and you really have to keep on your toes and not be overwhelmed by the storm he generates. AMAZING. I don't know what the craziest thing he ever did on stage is though I heard he was arrested in China for making a bonfire in his hi-hats."

MOE: Following up on the collaboration theme, I hear you'll be doing some work with Tortoise soon. How did you hook up with the people in Tortoise and what kind of collaborations are you going to attempt?

ANDY: "The collaboration with Tortoise was their invitation to join them in the studio for a project called In The Fishtank; a project set up by Konkurrent (Dutch Distribution Co.) bands that are touring in Europe are invited to record for 2 or 3 days in a local studio, with the idea that the band take a more experimental approach, which the Konk later release as part of a series. So far No Means No, Guvner, Snuff and Tassili Players have done things. With Tortoise it worked very well. Somehow we managed to combine our two incredibly different styles and approaches, to make it sound like one whole rather than two bands jamming with each other. They are also very open musicians and allow space for great things to happen,

which I think is one of the hardest things to achieve as a musician."

MOE: Your new CD, Starters Alternators was recorded with Steve Albini at his new studio. How did you hook up with him and what was it like working with Steve Albini?

JOS: "We phoned him in Abbey Road Studios in London, where he was recording Jimmy Page and Robert Plant (the money for his own studio has to come from somewhere!), he began ranting enthusiastically about the idea of working together, which Ex records he had and the number of times he'd seen us. In the background Jimmy Page is rocking out on his guitar. And suddenly Steve realizes that it's not really a good moment to talk about it, as he has to push some recording buttons! We thought, wow, this can't go wrong!"

"Much of this came about from pure circumstances, rather than from meticulous planning. We were searching for a new label to release our records in the US, and nearly everyone we asked, from quite different scenes, recommended Touch & Go as by far the best and most honest people to work with. But from there... how do you get to them? This suddenly became much easier, once we discovered the boss, Corey, was also an old an Ex fan. We first met in Chicago, last year, at our Lounge Ax gig. It turned out he'd known us for years and had all the old Ex singles. It seems we both started our musical careers trying to cover the same song, "I'm an upstart" by the Angelic Upstarts!"

"We spent the whole day together, chatting about a million things, and hup! we're on Touch & Go. No contracts or bullshit. On the basis of enthusiasm and trust. What more do you want? That same day Corey took us round to Albini's new studio. Half built, but impressive. He especially had delivered ten lorry loads of sun-dried Adobe bricks from New Mexico. A gigantic "live-room", around eight meters high. All his experience and ideas realized in an old warehouse. How we could not record there!"(Editor's Confession: I think I nicked this bit from the newsletter also).

ANDY: "Steve's ears are amazing and that is where it starts. Great ears, great microphones and fantastic acoustics in the recording room, very simple things that many studios have forgotten about in recent years. He also loves the music which makes it a pleasure to play. Recording in a studio is always a strange and difficult process... as our music is so geared up to be played in LIVE situations ... at least when you know that the person recording the music is enjoying what he hears... it helps."

"Basically we had a fantastic time in Chicago! an overwhelmingly friendly welcome at Touch And Go, our new label. It's very impressive, to see how they manage to combine professionalism with such enthusiasm for the music that they release. And the same goes for Steve Albini's Electrical Audio recording studio. also an extreme level of craftsmanship and knowledge but never without pure enjoyment for the music. The combination of Steve Albini and The Ex worked wonders. Not only did we feel at home with all the people working there, but recording with Steve was an experience in itself. He sees himself more as a modern field-recorder than an "old style" producer. His whole focus is more towards recording a band as they sound. and that's of course not as easy as it sounds. Here begins his craftsmanship, his incredible ear for detail, and almost obsessive knowledge of microphones. He asks you to play something which he carefully listens to, sometimes with his ear only 10 cm from your speaker! The drums are in a massive room, some nine meters high; the result is a kind of "outside" acoustics. The amps are in a dry room.

Then he chooses the right character of microphone (from a selection of more than 500!), and places them in precisely the right spot. The result is that when you return upstairs to the control room, it almost instantly sounds the way you actually sound. EQ is hardly used at all. Fascinating. Mixing also then proved so much easier than usual. Within five minutes sometimes it was down to a bit of balancing of levels. So, a week was more than long enough, and we are still totally happy with the result."

MOE: On ....And the Weathermen Shrugged Their Shoulders, you incorporated some non-western folk melodies. On Starters Alternators you include an arrangement of a traditional song. Can you comment on the influence of traditional music's on the Ex?

ANDY: "Actually we've been introducing non-western folk melodies into our music for much longer than since Weathermen. In the Six Point series (a series of six singles that came out over a year in 1992) we invited Brader Muziki, a Kurdish singer and saz player to join us. In fact we joined him as they were traditional tunes that he had written and which we contributed to. The idea came about because of our interest in Kurdish music which grew from hearing the music of Sivan Perwer, an incredible singer also known as "the voice of Kurdistan". A Kurdish man played us one of his tapes while we were playing in Hamburg once and we were immediately hooked. He was the first Kurdish musician to defy the Turkish ban on any speaking of the Kurdish language in public, and not long after was forced into exile. In the same series is a Hungarian folk song called Hidegen Fujnak A Szelek... which we first heard performed by a great Hungarian Folk group called Muszikas. Again it came first from our interest in the music of Hungary and Transalvania. In both cases we weren't really searching for a specific song. At some point we heard it and immediately knew it was a good idea to try it. The song on Starters Alternators is also a song by Muszikas. It's part of a bigger future project we have in mind, which will involve taking a whole collection of songs from many different countries and trying to create our own versions. It will hopefully include songs from Ethiopia, Kenya, Greece, Italy, Cambodia.. It's still in its very early stages as we're busy getting translations and trying to learn a bit about the history of some of this great music which is a project in itself."

"Recently I visited a fantastic woman who runs a foundation and is busy collecting, studying and keeping archives of Greek folk music with particular focus on Rembetika, (an amazing form of Greek blues that began in the 20s and 30s in Izmir and Piraeus) We've been listening to tapes of these songs for years without really knowing who was who and where and how the music grew and developed. So we try and convince Jos and Kat to sing in Greek (another project in itself) and see what will emerge. Hopefully before the year 2000. So yes, it has a big influence on our music, Terrie only (and I mean only) listens to Ethiopian 70s groove music at the moment and that has to end up in our music at some point in some form."

MOE: I'm a DJ on a community radio station here in Tampa, Florida. Whichsongs on Starters Alternators would you most like to hear played on the radio and why?

ANDY: "Frenzy," because it's a beautiful catchy hit in 7/8 and Jos sings over it in 4/4 and adds a few bits at the end of each verse. And its my personal favourite. "Bee Coz " because Jos croons a sad love song for the first time and Terrie plays amazing airplane guitar. "The Art Of Losing" because it's like nothing The Ex have ever done before and Kat and Luc do a strange and cheeky improvisation in the middle of the

song. "Let's Panic Later" because it's a kind of classic old style Ex number.

MOE: The Ex have a reputation for being an overtly political band along with Dog Faced Hermans, the Mekons and Chumbawamba. I've read that your political philosophy impacts the way you organize the band and the way you interact with the music business. Can you give me a brief summary of the

band's political philosophy and their practical applications?

JOS: "Basically it's very simple. We give our opinions on topics that concern or interest us, whether these opinions are fashionable or not. We think that sometimes certain things need to be said, or done. And we are not afraid to say no to the stupidity of greed and competition. And since we believe in freedom and the right for everybody to not be exploited, we prefer to do things in such a way that we keep control over what we are doing. If that is considered "political", than so be it, but we do not have a "philosophy", though. Yes we have certain ideas and beliefs which help us say yes or no occasionally, but much of it also depends on intuition. The decision to work together with somebody or some organization depends a lot on whether we like the people involved, it often is as simple as that. So yeah, maybe that's why we try not to get too much involved with "the music business"."

"Political open mindedness and musical open mindedness are part and parcel of the same thing. We don't have rules about who we play with based on whether the musicians share the same political or musical ideas as us. We choose people intuitively mostly based on what we hear them play and if we like them as people, and mostly it works out great. It's mostly much later that we discover people's political views and sometimes they're totally different, sometimes not... We are not a band that sits around talking politics all day... the politics is there much more to do with how we operate as a band and how we deal with people personally and professionally."

"Recently we played a whole lot of concerts with Djibril Diabete, a Kora player from Mali... how can we talk about politics with him? What would be the point... how do you explain our music to him and vice versa? And yet we could play together and share something in common... based more on a kind of openness and acceptance which enabled two unbelievably different kinds of music, culture and ideas to somehow work together."

There's lots of news of future plans on the newsletter which you can also find on our web site. Our web site address http://www.xs4all.nl/~exrcrds