ASK THE GOVERNMENT—Evening Edition
Radio ZJB – Wednesday Evening, October 10, 2001
Guest: MP, Chedmond Browne; Interviewer: Herman Sergeant
HS: Good evening listeners. The time in the studios of Radio ZJB it is 4 minutes moving down after 8 o’clock and we are just about to start the program, Ask the Government. Well, I should say the second edition. We had the first edition this morning. Mr. Chedmond Browne was here. Well, he’s back tonight and I’m sure that many of you are anticipating him and what he has to say on the program this evening.
This evening’s program would be more interactive in that we’ll be accepting calls and we only have an hour. The program finishes at 9 o’clock so you should get your questions or comments in as quickly as possible before the program comes to an end. But let me once again greet Chedmond.
Chedmond Browne is a member of parliament, a member of the NPLM government, was elected one of seven members elected in the April 2nd general elections. He’s also a social activist and before the elections he was quite vocal on a number of issues that affect the island. He is also a Pan-Africanist and a champion of the causes of Marcus Garvey, W.H. Bramble and others. So, I’m sure you get the picture of who the man is. But let me welcome Chedmond once again to the studios of ZJB. Good evening Chedmond.
CB: Good evening Herman. Good evening to all our radio listeners.
HS: Now this morning there was rather an interesting discussion on the role of government in Montserrat’s redevelopment or rebuilding. I am sure that you would like to continue on that theme tonight.
CB: Yes. I would really like to get the people of Montserrat to understand the actual role that the elected government plays in this country because I don’t think we clearly understand yet. We’ve been given hints now and again from former members of government and I don’t think we still have paid enough close attention simply because certain things are not said often enough.
The people have a certain idea of how they believe government should run, which theoretically it is correct but the practicality of how government runs is a complete different story altogether and what has happened over the years is that chief ministers, ministers of government, members of the legislative council have either been reluctant or just not… does not seem to want to explain clearly to the people of Montserrat how the government actually functions. So we always have this confusion. So I think we need—like I said before this morning—you can’t clear it up in half an hour or an hour. It’s an ongoing education process.
And I have always believed my role is… or the role of any elected government official is to educate the public as much politically to the political realities. So I would try to address that as much as I can for as much airtime as I can get.
HS: Now Chedmond, let us look at your role, first of all because you are a member of parliament and being a member of the Party, I would say a member of the government of as well, explain your role to us. You’re not a minister?
CB: No. I’m not a minister of government. I am a member of the legislative council. I also happen to be a member of the ruling Party, the Party in power. But actually my only role is a member of the legislative council because the only time I have any duty—the only duty that I am required to do is to attend legislative council meetings, to study the laws that have been presented before we go to legislative council and to offer my input as to whether those laws are good for the people of Montserrat, bad for the people of Montserrat, if there are clauses in the laws that don’t make sense, comment on those laws and eventually vote, have a vote in the passing of that law in voting yes or no based on how my research has been on the particular law. Then I have a right to vote yes or no on that law. I am only one person so if eight of us vote yes and one of votes no or if five of us vote yes and four of us vote no, the law still becomes a law. But the only actual role I have and the only duty that I have is to go to legislative council meetings whenever they are convened, sit and comment and give my input as to what particular law is being passed. I don’t have no other role.
HS: One would think therefore that you would be reflecting the views of your constituents in that capacity.
CB: Yes, well that’s the other role. The other role is that I am probably the only member of government that still walks the street on a regular basis. I don’t have a vehicle and I have to go out so basically you will see me on foot and therefore I think—myself more than anybody else gets more feedback in this country as to how people feel about government, as to how they feel they have been treated. So, yes that is one of my key roles is that I’m a sounding board. People will either tell me good things or bad things but they will talk to me. They do talk to me, so you’re right, that is one of the other roles that I play.
HS: Now, let us look at the role of the government in Montserrat’s redevelopment. How do you look at this role?
CB: Well, as I said this morning, I was one of the key architects on the political platform. Obviously, I no longer play that role in government. The role that I played on the political platform has not been extended to me with the government. But on the platform I was… I played a prominent role in forming the policies that we projected on the platform.
And one of the policies that we projected to the people who voted for us in an overwhelming majority, was that if we were able to win government, a majority of seats in government, we would be in a much more powerful negotiating position to negotiate for the people, to go to DFID, to go to whoever – because it’s not just DFID alone.
We call DFID’s name a lot but it is not just DFID alone that is stifling the development of this country. DFID is one of the people that is stifling development but the whole reality is that we would have been able, or we should have been able because we were empowered as a group, seven of us, to be able to stand as a united force and negotiate better deals for the people of Montserrat. That is what I perceived the role would have been.
Again, that is how you perceive it before you actually get on the ground to deal with the reality. Realistically, on the ground again it doesn’t work like that. It hasn’t worked like that and right now it is not working like that.
HS: But how is it working and why is it not working the way you perceived it to be before you were elected?
CB: The first thing is that after the election, the first thing that happens is that you have a separation of powers within the Party. On a political platform, everybody on the political platform is basically equal, you exchange ideas equally, you share ideas equally, you agree on a way to go and you go about implementing that way to go.
After the election you get separated because then the chief minister is elected and the other three ministers of government. So you have four government ministries. Those ministers of government enter the administrative and policy-making arms of the government. They all have their ministry and within the ministries they all have a staff. They have their permanent secretaries, their assistants, whatever, whatever. They have a fully functioning staff within their department.
So once that separation comes about, you will find that business as usual within those departments quickly begins to fall back into the way it was before because you have to remember, within the departments and them, they are a continuation of established policy. They are a continuation of things that were going on before. They are there; a new set of people fall in and what happens is that the new ministers of government might fall into the ministry with a new idea only to find out very, very quickly that some of the old ideas that were already there are already still ongoing.
Some of the new ideas that they want in place, they meet resistance to the new ideas and eventually what you find happening is that the ministries just begin to function as separate entities and the administrators within those entities begin to play a more dominant role in the decision-making process ‘til you reach the stage where we’ve practically reached right now where each ministry runs itself and the minister and the permanent secretary—depending on whatever relationship they have within the ministry—basically goes about running the business of the ministry and this is how, this is the stage that it’s reached.
HS: You say that the ministers meet resistance but isn’t it a fact that the ministry or the civil service is based really on procedures? It’s a bureaucracy and there’s, you know you come into office with ideas and you want to change things and you want to get things moving but you find it doesn’t work that way because there are certain procedures that you have to follow in the ministry. Is that the reason why ministers or the present crop of ministers appear to be a bit frustrated?
CB: Well what I’m saying to you is based on feedback because remember I’m not a minister. I’ve never operated inside a ministry so if a minister wishes to clear the air on that issue, one of the ministers and them will really have to come and clarify that to the people. But I agree with you a hundred percent.
It is a bureaucracy. There is a set of rules and regulations. There is a set procedure of a way that you have to go about doing things and these things happen when you fall in there so the frustration does come in. But a minister would definitely, a minister of government would have to explain to the people actually how a ministry functions and why, in fact, a minister can’t get a particular thing that he or she wants to do within that ministry simply because of that there’s an existing set of rules and regulations or a bureaucratic approach to problem-solving that does not allow a problem to be solved either in the short-term or the long-term.
HS: You’re listening to Ask the Government. This program is organized by the government of Montserrat to give the opportunity to members of the public to question parliamentarians on any particular issue and we may have our first caller, so Chedmond if you can put on a headset and let us take our first call.
Good night. May I help you please? Okay I suppose that person is not ready to participate. But to continue with our discussion, Cheddie, now isn’t it a problem… Well let us see if this caller is ready for us. Good night.
Caller: Good night Herman, Cheddie, Mr. Browne, how are you sir?
CB: I’m well, thanks.
Caller: Well good. Well first off I must compliment you for this morning. I think you have done a very good job this morning outlining all the ills of Montserrat within the legislative system, the executive system, etc., etc. And what I really called about was to also compliment you on the stance that you took with regards to the airport in Geralds because I have listened to the governor’s speech and I have noted that he, when Herman asked him a question with relation to CRM and an airport, he in his response said that he sees no reason why we are asking—basically asking for this very large airport, with this large capacity.
We have never asked for a large airport. All we asked for is an airport that would enhance Montserrat’s economic viability. That is all that we asked for. I mean, many persons they started, they saw the need and they built but what the governor wants to give to us along with his British counterparts can in no way enhance our economic viability and therefore I am very glad that you brought that point out this morning.
And I’m only hoping that the people of Montserrat listening will one day get up and say to the governor, DFID and the British in large numbers, this is not what we want; we do not want an airport of this capacity in Geralds. We need agitation—like what they did in Salem at one point in time to get back into Salem—to stop an airport in Geralds. Thank you Cheddy.
CB: Yes, sir and let me say that I agree with you 100% on the issue. I think we are thinking along the same lines here. But let me also say this that when the governor first came to Montserrat, when he was introduced in the house of parliament, the governor made a statement to the effect that he is going to be wearing two hats. Now I looked at him when he made the statement and said, but I don’t see two heads. Understand? Now, no man with one head could wear two hats.
So the reality is a governor comes to this country to represent her majesty’s government and her majesty’s policies but beyond that the governor has constitutional authority to govern this country. And if there’s any unrest in this country, it is the governor’s duty to report it to the Foreign & Commonwealth Office whose duty it is to report it to the secretary of state.
And if the people of this country say, categorically, to the government of this country that under no circumstances—no matter what has been done, no matter what papers have been signed, that an airstrip of the nature that they want to implement at Geralds—it is not satisfactory to us, they must stand up and listen.
So let nobody come here and tell you we have no choice. It don’t have nothing named so and it is full time that the people of this country here learn to say no sometimes rather than say, “awe have fu tek um kar awe can’t get noten else,” it is utterly ridiculous and it is full time. I mean we say no to our children and our children understand when we say no.
So we can say no if something doesn’t make sense unless we actually are beggars because beggars are the only people who have no choice. Beggars can’t be choosers. Now if we are going to sit down here and accept that we are beggars, then we have no choice and it’s better we all stop making noise. But if we are sensible, intelligent people with pride and dignity and motivation and ambition, then we can say no because we can do better, and better can be done and we can have better options.
HS: Can we, in fact, afford to say no, Cheddie, given the situation we are in? Montserrat is in budgetary aid right now.
CB: I accept all of that but what we are in fact saying, when the British government, when DFID comes up to you and tells you, take it or leave it, then they are not negotiating with you in good faith. They are, in fact, treating you like a beggar and they are telling you either you take this exactly the way we offer it to you or you get nothing. That is not negotiation.
Now, look we have compromised on every issue with this airport here. We compromised on the cost; we have compromised on the size. We have compromised on everything. Now, all we are saying is this: okay you don’t want to spend a whole ton of money, don’t spend a whole ton of money but we are saying, spend the money sensibly. But you are willing to waste the money and then you’re going to go—
You hear what the governor said here? He says, in practice, in practice it is the government of Montserrat that makes the decision. When they go there and waste the $40 million dollars, when we go out there we can’t tell the world that the British government wasted $40 million dollars down here and built some stupidness. You understand?
HS: Good night, you’re live on the program.
Caller: Cheddie, let me talk to you man. I actually know—I’m a Montserratian; you are. Viva la Montserrat. Listen, who is taking the blame for the—listen to me you know, because there’s a lot of people I reckon who can’t understand me but listen to me—who is going to take the blame for what has been construed and what for the airport?
The government, which I voted for, believe me—seven out of the team—you tell me this morning, none of them—they have no, so that means they shouldn’t be really (? Tape garbled). But anyway what I say, they should be, you know. A little governor come up – I told Lewis last week on the airport that he might turn it down. He’s not going to do that. He accepted it. Now, John accepted it. I am blaming the government, Cheddie. After all, what—we’ve got nincompoops? Turn it down. But you’re saying they are not turning it down, who is to blame because they, the government of the day, our people said that they accept it, you understand me, but why? And now you say something else? If not, to hell with the governor; all what they say, NO
CB: Let me say something to you. A government is elected to carry out the explicit wishes of the people. No matter what has been done so far, if it is the explicit wishes of the people that we do not want an airstrip or whatever it is they call it down at Geralds, then that government has to carry through our wishes. We have to carry through your wishes. Okay? So it’s not a done a act whether Dr. Lewis has accepted it or not, which I don’t know. Dr. Lewis will have to tell you that. Whether the chief minister has accepted it or not, which in, he will have to tell you that…
Caller: But they said it on radio.
CB: Listen, if the majority of the people of this country say that it don’t make no sense, the government has to back off, the government has to go to the governor and tell the governor the people say they don’t want it, the governor has to carry back to England. It’s as simple as that my friend. That’s the way the system works.
Caller: Mr. Browne…
HS: Can we have one more question?
Caller: Thank you. Mr. Browne, no, no, no. Let me ask you something, Mr. Browne, don’t cut me off.
CB: I’m here. I’m here.
Caller: Okay, you’re here Cheddie?
CB: Yes.
Caller: Remember what you said this morning? And I listened to you and I agree with a lot of things you said and disagree with a lot of things you say but I am saying since Lewis, John accept – fait accompli, fait accompli. They said, we decide to that, the government; we decide to accept; it’s not me. Get the tapes of the conversation. We decide—up to this morning they are looking for—what they call it? They have the airport—they are looking for, what they call it—tenders to get a guy that’s going to fix up the airport whatever they call it. Look, they’ve gone forward: the Montserrat government. They should turn around and say Cheddie, NO. I tell Lewis, let me see them, let me see their colors. No, no, no, no, no. They are not saying that. We have to do that.
HS: Thank you for your contribution sir.
Caller: Right on.
HS: Bye, bye. Who is to blame Cheddie? That’s the question.
CB: It’s not a matter of blame. Listen to what I’m saying. Listen to me carefully and I want the people of Montserrat to listen to me carefully. We have to make sense out of this whole thing. There has nothing being built in Geralds yet so what are we talking about blame? There’s not a blade of grass been moved from Geralds yet. So that means that there’s nothing about blame yet. It is not a done act. It is not a settled thing.
The people of Montserrat are clearly saying (not Cheddie). I come in here after the fact; I stated it before the fact because I was one of the first people to come out and say it’s ignorance but the people are clearly saying it. There’s not a blade of grass been turned down there yet so what are we talking about blame? There’s blame yet, okay?
Let me show you something. They went up there and they built government headquarters. Before they built it we know they were doing ignorance. We still let them do it. We let Brown & Root come here and dig out our eye and build ignorance up there. Now the place is rotting. The people who work in there don’t have space to move around and the whole place is improperly built. After the fact, we complained. They went down there and they built Davy Hill. Before they built Davy Hill, we know they were doing ignorance. Okay?
All of these things we know before the fact, everything single thing that they’ve forced us to implement in this country has been substandard, has been put in the wrong place, has been of no real benefit to the people of this country. Now, I am saying that pattern has been established. Now we clearly know the same thing is going to happen. After the fact we’re going to say we shouldn’t have put the stupidness down there. It’s not down there yet.
HS: Good night. You are live on the program.
Caller: Good night.
HS: Please go right ahead.
Caller: Mr. Browne. I don’t know but do you have any idea of the cost for the present temporary terminal building that we have here?
CB: The terminal building?
Caller: Yes.
CB: No, I’m not aware of the cost of it.
Caller: Because I was wondering in terms of—we could look at the cost for building that and I think what we should focus on more is the cost—work out the cost of the length of the runway that we are looking for rather than, you know, this big, elaborate terminal building. We should more concentrate on the cost for the runway to the length we’re looking for and then we move from there because if we build a building, we can always extend a building but we should first look at the cost for the length of the runway that we’re looking for.
CB: Let me explain something to you. Down in Geralds, no matter what length of runway you want, you can’t get it down in Geralds; that’s the bottom line. So whether we cost the length of the runway or not, it’s immaterial. What is being said here is that DFID, the British government and DFID are adamant that they will not finance an airstrip anywhere else but down in Geralds. This is their position. Now either they change the position or something. But down in Geralds, you cannot get an airstrip long enough to satisfy any future development. Whatever length of airstrip you get down in Geralds now, that is it, ad infinitum.
Caller: I appreciate that but what I’m saying is that we would have facts and figures and let them know, listen if its 40 million, the length of the runway that we are looking for costs x, y, z and then we’ll build the building. Wherever it takes us and we get the place for the length of the runway having in fact that we have the cost for the runway, listen, this is the length of a runway we are looking for and this is the cost up to $40 million.
CB: Okay, I understand.
HS: Any more questions?
Caller: Yes, on the other hand, there was this figure quoted some time ago about (I don’t remember exactly) in terms of yearly for the costs of using the ferry? Could you remember that cost?
HS: It’s EC$12 a year?
Caller: Okay, presently we’re having this ferry running, right? Do you know the cost of one of those ferries?
CB: We could probably buy it with half a year of the money that we spend.
Caller: Okay, I appreciate that. Now the other thing is that now, we are looking for the year 2000 and what to complete that?
HS: Three.
Caller: 2003. Okay we have 12 million per year for the maintenance cost of a boat. Now that would be multiplied by the next two years—that would be $24 million. Now, it is rumored that since this boat is operating, there’s something like another boat or two has been bought out of this money. Now we are people still living on this island and doesn’t it make sense that you multiply the 24 million (it’s already budgeted for the next two years) and purchase a boat and leave us with a boat? Le awe hang ourself with a boat.
CB: I agree with you a 100%. This is what I’ve being trying to say. We have a lot of people in this country who have a lot of sense, a lot of logic, a lot of commonsense but what we’ve been told, practically, is that we don’t have the capability to think for ourselves or to make our own decisions.
This is basically what is happening. You will come up, we will come up with all kinds of workable ideas and when you go and sit down at the negotiating table, they will come and tell you, here is the situation, here is how it’s going to be and this is what it is; take it or leave it. And our people will not come out and say, we went into a negotiating table and these people came up and told us, tek this or leave it. Until our people begin to realize that we’ve been painted into a corner, we will never be able to—
I mean I agree with you, we can solve our problems. We have enough creativity and we have enough knowledge and understanding of economic dynamics that if we are given the opportunity, we can and we will solve our own problems. All they have to do is let us manage the money. They could come and count it. They don’t need somebody here doling out money to us a penny at a time, to make sure that it cannot benefit us. This is actually the intent. If they are here doling out the money, they could spoil it, they could waste it, they could make sure that 60% of it goes back into their pocket and into their economy and none of it benefits us or anything at the end of the day.
HS: Can we have one more question from you?
Caller: No. It’s not no more question but it’s just to reinforce this point. It’s that it’s plain and simple. They are telling us, listen 12 million per year and it’s like food, it’s food on our plate. Listen, we are spending 12 million per year and we are budgeting for the next two years, $24 million. Oh my God aren’t we stupid? Can’t we see, listen, take the 24 million and buy us a boat.
CB: Yes, okay.
HS: Thank you so much for your contribution. So, if not Geralds, what? Let’s take this other call. Good night.
Caller: Good evening. The previous chief minister said that the government was going to be the engine of the economy in Montserrat. What is Mr. Browne’s view on this matter because apparently this current government is of a similar view?
CB: The government is going to be the engine of the economy and you want to know what my view is?
Caller: Yes, and do you agree with the current government’s view, which apparently is identical to Mr. Brandt’s?
CB: Well, basically sir, all I can say to you is that right now, you have a situation where the only monies coming into this country are coming into this country either through projects that are currently on stream or through civil servants’ salaries. You have very other little monies generated anywhere in any sector of this society and since we are not the ones that determine how the money is released (which is what I just said previously) we don’t determine how the money is released. If DFID releases two projects in this country, they will make sure that another two projects are not released for another 8 to 10 months.
Caller: No, no, that is not my question at all. I’m saying—let me put the question in another way. Normally it is considered that the government cannot be the engine of an economy that it has to be private, the private sector that would be the engine of the economy.
CB: Yes and the government would be the facilitator.
Caller: Precisely.
CB: Okay, I understand.
Caller: But the view of Mr. Brandt that the government was going to be the engine of the economy and apparently the view of this current government is that the government is going to be the engine of the economy.
CB: I’ve never actually heard their opinion on it. I always assume that it is natural commonsense that the government can only facilitate and the private sector would do the generation and the motive force. I mean that was always my natural assumption so that is why I basically misunderstood what you were saying. But I am not aware that this present government actually has the same policy as Mr. Brandt. I couldn’t speak for them on that issue.
Caller: Well, it may not be policy. I think we should speak in terms of actions speaking louder than words.
CB: Well, that’s one good way of making an assessment. I make most of my assessments through actions myself because I agree with you. Actions do speak louder. So if the actions in fact are pointing in that direction then it is a logical assumption to assume that they are following the same trend and direction, or we. I should say we and not they since I’m a part of it.
HS: Any more questions sir?
Caller: No. Thank you very much.
HS: Thank you very much. Well, you’re listening to Ask the Government and the guest for this evening is Member of Parliament, Mr. Chedmond Browne and we are addressing the role of the government and coming into the mix is the whole issue, inevitably coming to the forefront—that is Geralds.
Now, Mr. Browne you did say that Geralds is not a done deal. I would like to know exactly what do you mean by that? Let me take this call though. Good night.
Caller: Hello. I had to come back at Mr. Browne again and I’m going to lead to something here. In the governor’s interview, Mr. Sergeant said to the governor, words to the effect that it was suggested by the Minister of Communications & Works that this decision (meaning the decision to take an airport in Geralds) may have been made at the highest levels of the British government’s cabinet.
The governor, in his response, said words to the effect that the British government always made it clear that it would not be prepared to find extra money to fund a much more expensive airport somewhere else. So if that is taken the decision, you can say in a sense that the British government had an influence on it.
Now Mr. Browne, let me ask you the question and I tried to ask the Minister, this (the Minister of Communications & Works) this. What will happen if the people of Montserrat refuses an airport at Geralds and to further take it elsewhere, when the governor makes this kind of statement, you know sometimes I believe these people want to believe that we are foolish people, but we have to show them that we are sensible, intelligent people who know what we want and where we want to get because when he makes these kind of statements, it is telling me clearly that is either the government accept the airport in Geralds or maybe we will withhold everything else from the government of Montserrat. Do you understand my point of view, Mr. Browne?
CB: Of course I understand you clearly and I agree with you because—let me finish the line that you… Right after, the governor says but if the British government had an influence on it, “Yes.” Then he goes on to say , “but, in practice,” I’m reading his exact words now: “It is the government of Montserrat’s decision. It is up to them if they can find money elsewhere (knowing that we can’t get no money elsewhere because they won’t agree to finance a loan for us) to build an airstrip anywhere else, it is their decision.”
So they coerce us, they force us, they give us a take it or leave it option, force us to sign it and then they go out to the world and say, look, you see, it’s not us; they signed the paper. This is what I am saying: it is up to us at some point in time, we have to stand up and say no. And the people have to empower the government and show the government that it wants it to say no, knowing fully well that there’s going to be some backlash and if that is the backlash, we have a prime, we have a prime, prime reason to go out there and show the international world how these people are coercing us, how these people are treating us like abject beggars and simpletons who don’t have any idea in the world how to go about looking after their own lives. They are treating us as if we are not only just children; they are treating us like imbeciles. This is how they deal with us.
Caller: And you know, Mr. Browne, the thing is that one of the things that I note that our benefactors keep bringing up (and I’m speaking specifically to the airport issue more or less) one of the things that they keep bringing up is this term, EU money, EU funding, which experience has shown throughout this Caribbean region that EU funding is one of the hardest funding to bring to reality. Most EU projects take three years, four years, five years. You never get an EU project completed in one year or less or even two years or less. But the other thing that I would like to ask you: Who is the biggest contributor to the EU’s funding?
CB: The British government.
Caller: So therefore, we are caught between a rock and a hard place anywhere we turn with the British government and an airport at Geralds.
CB: Yes. But beyond that, let me say this about the same EU funding. Those EU funds have been given to Montserrat since Mr. Reuben Meade’s government in 1992. Now the governor came on this same radio the other day and said that those EU funds are earmarked for an airport only in Geralds, he thinks.
There is nothing like that. The EU funds were earmarked for transportation development. That means either a seaport or an airport or the extension of an airport. And here’s another thing, those EU funds, we did not have to commit to those EU funds until the end of this year, December 31st. The same governor came on the radio the first time he broke the airport issue and told us if we did not make a decision to spend those EU funds by the end of September, we were going to lose them.
We still have another two months yet to make a decision on the EU funds. Okay? And those EU funds do not necessarily have to go into an airport. DFID and the British government—like you said, they are the biggest contributor to anything that has anything to do with a British colony. So therefore, they have overriding say-so in how their money is spent. But that is the reality.
Caller: But Mr. Browne…
HS: One last question from you, one last comment.
Caller: My final comment is this at this point in time: Well, everybody know my voice so I could just as well say what I have to say because for about maybe two years now, or a year and a half, I’ve been saying that the EU’s funding was for transportation and not specifically an airport at Geralds. I have said it before on numerous occasions to the chagrin of the last governor who wanted me to kill me because I made those comments.
But what I want to ask now, Mr. Browne, is it true that this, the EU funding, the original EU funding that was offered to Mr. Meade has been drastically reduced now to the tune of about EC$40 million?
HS/CB: 20 million.
Caller: 20 million. Sorry. Because my understanding was that it was much more than that in the initial stages.
CB: It was initially but again…
HS: Thank you very much, caller.
CB: … Again it’s the British government money and they have decided to trim it how they want, send off piece where they want because they have this whole thing again that if they earmark money for something and it’s not used when it’s earmarked for, it goes somewhere else and you just don’t get it. It just disappears.
HS: Good night, you are on the program.
Caller: I think one of the things that my colleague and I obviously find truly appalling in this whole scenario of Montserrat, this terrible debacle, this terrible draining situation that we find ourselves in, is our people.
I wish mainly to address myself to the plight of us as Montserratians. And it is at this time that like never before, unity among Montserratians is absolutely vital. We will never succeed—never succeed if we are not united. There is a perceived disunity and it is fostered even at the very highest level and we must grapple with that disunity and get rid of it so that all the political leaders, all the managers, all the business sector—business people in the private sector, everybody, we need all to come together and to join as one into forging a path for our little nation.
It’s not the question so much so of an airport although it is absolutely vital. It is the division that exists among our people so that we cannot, we are not moving forward as one force. And if it one thing that the enemy knows, it’s when you are divided. And that tact has been used successfully, division and ruling. And it is so evident in every sphere here on the island, every area, it’s a question of dividing, separating and defeating us.
Montserratians, we must get together. Really, we must put aside our grievances. It is not the airport, although vital as it is. It’s not the seaport. It’s not the lack of housing. It is us.
HS: Caller, how do you propose we go about doing that?
Caller: First, we need to have some healing. There’s a perceived breach. There is a standoff situation between the government of the day and the management team which is in the civil service and it must be healed. And if it’s my duty to attempt to heal it, I will. I do have very important friends in high places and I’m going to reach out to them to say, come, let us hold hands, let us heal this terrible rift and get Montserrat moving forward.
Chedmond, the airport is vital. And just a while ago, there was an important caller. One of the things that surprised me in this crisis was the exclusion of that very caller from the whole planning for our recovery. That private sector person who is a large landowner should have been playing a vital role in the recovery of this island. Whether he was excluded deliberately, I don’t know. It was a mistake. He should have been invited. He has a significant part to play in our recovery and even now at this stage I want to reach out to him to say, come, play the part that you must play in assisting the recovery of this island. Yes indeed, it is the private sector that needs to be revived to get this economy rolling, not just—I say no more. Chedmond, take over.
CB: Yes sir.
HS: Thank you very much caller. Your response to that Chedmond?
CB: Well, I agree with Mr. Wilson 100%. I know we are not supposed to identify the personalities. It’s not good protocol but in this instance, I do hope Mr. Wilson will forgive me. But I do agree with him 100%.
There has only been one time in the history of this country and our politics where we actually were united and that was under the old Labour Party of Mr. William Bramble. From that time on after he lost government this country has been split, there has been a schism and you know, politicians have taken advantage of that split and now our enemies have come back because we had gotten rid of most of them. They have come back. They recognize the split and they have done an excellent job of also taking advantage of it. Our society is split.
HS: Good night. You’re on the program.
Caller: Good night. Cheddie, the government have any land down there?
CB: Down where?
Caller: Where dem a talk about put the airport.
HS: At Geralds.
CB: No they don’t.
Caller: Well then how dem a stick on from putting the airport down there? The people them down there decide to give the land?
CB: No they haven’t. They haven’t even spoken to them yet as a matter of fact.
Caller: Good. What they have to do now, they have to go buy land and build back the people and them house down there.
CB: Well, according to them, they only have to move 12 houses, according to their new plan and their new alignment. So according to them, they have minimized the amount of land that they would have to acquire and they have minimized the amount of houses and people that they would have to move. You know, the whole option is to go as cheap as possible. This has always been the option and they’re looking for the cheapest ways out.
Caller: The 12 houses, them have to furnish the land and furnish the 12 houses back to the people.
CB: Well, I imagine all of that has been factored into the same 39 point whatever million dollars: Those 12 houses, acquiring space for them and putting them somewhere, all of that was budgeted into the same 39 point million.
Caller: And these people do not agree for move them house and do not agree to give fu give the land, what they’re going to do? Take the land and still move the houses?
CB: Well that remains to be seen. As I have said, nothing has been done yet so we shouldn’t presume all of that.
Caller: Okay. Thank you that’s all me want to know.
HS: Thank you very much caller. You’re listening to Ask the Government. We have another 12 minutes on the program and Chedmond let’s take this other caller. Chedmond Browne is our guest for tonight. Good night, you’re on the program.
Caller: Hello, good evening. I just wanted to express similar sentiments as to the—not the last caller, the one before—in terms of unity. I know Cheddie this morning got a little emotional in a sense in some of his comments.
CB: I hope I’m better now.
Caller: Yes, but some of the issues which are coming out in the sense of the reaction of public servants, working with ministers, whatever—I’d just like to underline the point of us becoming a unified front.
I know the Chief Minister—he’s a people’s person. Maybe we need to seem a little bit more with the people. To some extent, even all of the ministers, there’s a need for greater interaction with the masses in a sense that we need to devise a common front. If the majority of people are saying a no to whatever decision, it is the people’s decision.
CB: Exactly.
Caller: But we have to devise and plan and say to the British, look this is why we’re saying we don’t want whatever and we are proposing this and we are willing to work towards doing whatever the objective is. But I’m just saying, let’s take a moment …
(1st side of tape ends)
… What happens to the meeting that the ministers of government are having with the public servants? Why isn’t such a meeting arranged?
CB: Can I answer that for a minute before you finish? We have tried. When we initially won government, we have tried on numerous occasions to arrange those types of meetings, only to be frustrated. We’ve met maybe twice. Okay? But basically, organizing those types of meetings, we have met with utter and thorough frustration and non-cooperation on that issue. But you could go ahead.
Caller: And well I was going on to suggest like there are unions, there are non-governmental organizations. You have the trade unions, well you have the public service. You have the Montserrat Allied Workers’ Union. You have several NGO’s. I mean we need some systematic and strategic planning to bring all these things together and to look at where we want Montserrat to go based on what we have. And I think it’s time we stop saying that we’re depending on the British for funds because look at what is being done over in Blake’s there. Is it the British government funding? No.
CB: And it’s going 24-7.
Caller: Exactly. Did Mr. Galloway get British government funds to build the hotel down there? So what I’m saying is we as people have to look at these things and say, look we need to do something for ourselves and stop this thing of sitting back and saying, oh, I mean the British—Let’s do something for ourselves and show the British we don’t have to depend on you only. We need to get out there, go to private-sector organizations, whether they be in the U.S., in the same UK, wherever, Caribbean, wherever. We need to make a strategic move to get going towards where we as a people want to go.
CB: I agree with you a hundred percent.
Caller: And this is the kind of mentality that we have to remind our people. Our people are hard working people. Our people are very smart but we need to unite and work on a common front.
HS: Thank you very much caller.
CB: I agree with you, I agree with you a hundred percent but let me tell you something else too. Beyond that, the mere fact that this government not only won 9 seats but has—I would have to say that we have a pretty good relationship with Mr. Reuben Meade and Mrs. Cassell-Sealy, so you do, in effect, have 9 elected members of government that are fully capable of going out there and representing you. There are numerous places all over the world that we could be going as representatives to represent Montserrat; that we can do exactly what you say there. All of us are fully capable. It don’t have no slouches in the government. Anybody that you send out there is fully capable of going out there and representing Montserrat to accomplishing a particular goal.
And I agree; we do need to come together. We do need to start looking at some national agendas as opposed to this bi-partisan ignorance that we partake in every five years and then keep it up for another five years. You understand? It is time for all of this ignorance to cease. Elections are elections, yes. You go about having an election and after the election is done, all of this stupidness supposed to done to. Government is in office, people are supposed to come together and help that government function but it doesn’t work that way. People hold this enmity in their heart or you boy; they want to kill you still. I can’t understand it. It is time for it to cease.
HS: We have a caller on the line. You’re listening to Ask the Government with Mr. Chedmond Browne. Make your contribution.
Caller: Yes, good evening. Mr. Browne, how many people live in the Falkland Islands?
CB: In the 1500’s, sir or less.
Caller: The British built an international airport there for them, right?
CB: Yes sir.
Caller: We have almost twice, four times the amount there. I think they could build a better—an airport just like the Falklands. Maybe the plain and simple of it is because we are black in color. Maybe if we were white people, they would have rushed down, tear down Thatch Valley or Old Quaw or wherever and build us a nice international airport and that would have been no problem for them. You said 1500 live in the Falklands, fifteen hundred whites. So why can’t they build an airport at Thatch Valley for us 6000, 5000+ people?
CB: I could answer your question very simply for you sir. When our Chief Minister, John Osborne, was the former chief minister and he asked Mrs. Margaret Thatcher that exact same question, she told him that the people of the Falkland Islands were kith and kin and there’s no comparison between the people of the Falklands and the people of Montserrat. So basically what you’re saying is exactly true. But when we bring up things like these we are dubbed as racists. Okay? They are going to classify me as a racist tomorrow simply for agreeing with you but that is the reality and we have to address it.
HS: Any more questions, sir?
Caller: No more questions.
HS: Thank you so much. Well Chedmond, let’s take this other call. They’re coming in quite fast at this time. Good night.
Caller: One of the things I have to end by saying is that while we are negotiating on the struggle towards receiving appropriate levels of aid, we must prepare our people for what lie before us. There is a struggle that is ahead. It is no bed or roses, people and we must be ready for the struggle.
Now if we refuse an airport at Geralds, there is a price to pay. We must be prepared to pay that price. Nothing comes easy. It was Churchill who said, my countrymen the struggle is going to be long; it’s going to be hard. We will have our ups and downs but we will not withdraw. And Montserratians, we have to be prepared tomorrow morning to pay increased ferry fares. We have to be prepared to pay increased helicopter fares. We have to be prepared to pay increased electricity fares. We have to be prepared to pay increases in every utility.
In deed, we have to be prepared to pay the price for what we want here. We have to sit down carefully and calculate those angles. It is going to be difficult but we must face it; we will overcome but we must be prepared to make sacrifices in order to move this country forward.
HS: Thank you very much caller. Let’s move to line 2. Good night.
Caller: Good night. Somebody pulled off a coup on me tonight. I’m here listening to Channel 5 trying to get the program because from Salem you can’t—you barely could hear ZJB. It’s now so I just, I mean I just get a scratch on me radio that indicate the program is on. I don’t understand that one.
HS: You tried 88.3?
Caller: I tried everything. From Salem, you barely could get a little thing that you could barely could hear. Anyway, I’m on the air so that’s not so important. Now in terms of the 2 by 4 airport that government, governor, DFID, British, whoever say they agree with that at Geralds Bottom, I think that’s a foolish suggestion and our leaders just need to come out and say so. If they are not in agreement with it, they need to come out and say so.
People elect them to represent them and they seem to hiding everything behind some bush or some corner. Anybody with commonsense must know that a 2 by 4 airport at Geralds Park would never be in our present or future interest; can’t happen.
And, the hypocrisy: to say that they are giving us (what they call it?) a temporary airport at Geralds Park. What is meant by temporary because nothing they ever give us saying it’s temporary ever prove to be that? It turns out to be permanent. Government headquarters is the classic example.
And would the British give us – something was mentioned by the governor, I think it was earlier in the week about we have to show viability and when we show that could get more tourists then at that point, apparently, we would look at something bigger.
Would the British ever give Montserrat two airports for 5000 people? Impossible. That’s telling us that we’re all stupid, totally stupid. And I know I’m not stupid. If the rest of all you stupid, I’m not stupid. But I have a qualm with the leaders of the country because they are saying little or nothing. You hear all kind of shu shu on the street or DFID …
CB: So me no one of the leader them?
Caller: Well a just recently me hear you a talk out Cheddie because you and all gone off the radio.
CB: No man. You no me a listen.
Caller: Well as me say, me have problem with hearing Radio Montserrat out here. All right? So that need fixing too. But I’m fully in support of the group, whatever they call themselves.
CB: CRM.
Caller: CRM. If you’re giving us 40 million or whatever the million is for put a 2 by 4 at Geralds that could accommodate something little larger than a helicopter with 5 or 7 people or whatever it is, give us the same money at a site that we could extend in the future. It is commonsense. The British know that; all, DFID, everybody, they know that.
Anyway another problem that I have, you know, and whoever know me know that I like to talk straight. On the same Geralds Park is a number of houses, a ghetto-like set of houses where I am told, some of them, the floor in them is the ground of Geralds Park, that when it rains, you’re walking in mud in some of them. That needs fixing and fixing fast. Let government tell us what is the problem with that.
Montserratians no supposed to live in that condition in their own country. No way, we no accustomed to that anyway. We are accustomed to a lot better than that and my thinking on that matter is the government needs to go down to Geralds Park (Cheddie, I mean you and all the other elected officials).
CB: Yes, I’m listening.
Caller: Go down to Gerald’s Park. Get the same set of people who live in those, I mean, what to call it?
CB: Hovels.
Caller: Hovel is too much of a nice word man. It’s a nasty kind of place. Get those same kind of people, all the people who the people elected, go down there, get those people and their children. And if it is that DFID not releasing the money so that you could better the conditions of those people—Look those of us who live in proper houses no understand why it is, you know. It is dehumanizing to live in them kinds of conditions down there. Tek the people with the elected officials and whosoever will (an me a come to) go up to DFID office, everyday, if needs be with all the children. Blockade it if necessary.
Look we need to show that we hurting, no pretend that people not hurting. We need to show that. Let it be known far and wide and in a tangible sort of way, let it be known and the leaders selected to lead, lead. Nobody supposed to be living so. Not a soul supposed to living so. Not in Montserrat, just no way at all.
HS: Okay caller, we have to go to another call coming up so thank you so much for your contribution.
Caller: But no 2 by 4 airport down a no Geralds. Full stop.
HS: Okay, thanks caller. Good night go right ahead please.
Caller: Good night. The government was elected by the people, right? Why is it so difficult for the government to come out and say, look, we spoke to the British, the British said that if you do not accept Geralds, then you won’t get any projects. Now that might be the scenario. So why can’t they come out and tell the people exactly what was said and why they’re doing what they are doing?
I don’t know if it’s a strategy or what but it would seem to me that if you are elected by the people, it’s very simple, when you go and you discuss certain things, you come back and say exactly what went on and ask the people, well look, what do you think? Do you agree with me?
CB: Yes, I agree with you a hundred percent. Like I’ve said before, what has happened in a lot of cases now is that you have individual ministers going and discussing things with just their selves and their own personal staff and so you don’t have that feedback that was initially coming.
You have elected a government, yes but as I tried to explain this morning, government is not the 9 people that you elect. Those are the 9 members of the legislative council. Government is the executive council, which consists of the 4 government ministers, the governor, the attorney general and the financial secretary. You have three members on the executive council who never went on no political platform, who were never voted for, who have more say-so in the decision-making process in this country than 5 other members that were elected on government. So these are the people that are going to have to come and address these issues but especially the government ministers.
We’re going to have to—me, all of us—we’re going to have to take our government ministers to task and demand that they give us better explanations for decisions that have been made and the decisions that are going to be made. But I agree with you a hundred percent. We need more feedback between the people and the government if we are going to function as a unit and go forward because we are carrying through the people’s wishes.
HS: One more question, Sir?
Caller: No, that’s all.
HS: Okay thank you so much for your contribution. Well, thank you very much, Chedmond Browne. I think—we’ll take one more call, you indicate? Okay you want to say something. Let’s take this one more call and then you’ll wrap up. Good night.
Caller: Good night. Me think that the people and them right now have to get up and march to DFID office and let them know wha a we about. And march to the governor office and let them know wha a we about. Now, in St. Kitts, them fail to give St. Kitts an airport and St. Kitts get to work and them start the airport and when they go a certain way, money done, they want help now, the British gee them one airport. Well a we going to have to go try do the same thing too. Try fu help a we self fu get by. No just sit down and just wait and just yang, yang, yang, yang; that can’t help the situation. We have to push force. Right in Antigua now, a hell to tell up there right now in Antigua. You can’t go to Barbuda to tek up no sand out deh now. Them block everything out dey. Them put fire pon one hotel dey because they no want um dey. So we have to do something fu get something done.
HS: Okay. Bye bye. We have come to the end of the program, Ask the Government and our guest for the two editions today, Chedmond Browne. And Chedmond, some wrapping up remarks from you even as the phone continue to ring but agreed that this program would be one hour.
CB: I would just like to say one thing before we close out the phones because we’ve touched on a lot of things. Basically what we’ve come to recognize is that there’s a trend and a pattern that has been established, that basically everything that we have been forced to agree to has turned out to be a bad, a bad deal for us. And the airport is going to turn out to be the same thing. But that’s not what I want to touch on now.
I specifically want to say a special thank you to the teachers at the Montserrat Secondary School and to the bus drivers who brought home the children and them Monday from Montserrat Secondary School when that volcano blew off when nobody was in no position to help. Now a lot of you are not aware of it that when that volcano blew off and the bus was coming down Fogarthy Hill—that is when the blackout came.
If that bus driver was not a thinking young man, a lot of us wouldn’t be here at no, listening to radio tonight, you understand me? Because that bus was on its way down Fogarthy Hill. Now that is one of the big mistakes that we made, okay? When that school was built and the children were put back out there, they had a PTA meeting and I was the only parent in that PTA meeting (and a lot of you were there, at least 300 parents were there) that stood up and said that we shouldn’t be putting our children back in Salem. Not a parent responded, okay?
I was told quite sharply that the British government spent half a million pounds to build a nice school for us and now you a tel a we no fu put a we children and dem in a yum. But you see what happened? Not one of us could—my heart dropped out of my stomach Monday afternoon, Monday when that thing went off and I was miles away from my daughter and I knew I couldn’t help her. All I could a do was to pray to God and hope that she was safe or at least the teachers and them had enough sense to look after them children there and make a sensible decision, which they did. But it was not because we planned for it. It was not because we had planning or contingency for it. It happened because we had some sensible teachers and the grace of God.
The children do not belong out there but we have them out there and this is the kind of planning that has turned out again because we have been forced to accept something not in our best interests simply because they are going to spend the money. We need to be thinking about these things. That school there and what happened Monday, if any of you are parents and you had your children out there you cannot tell me that your heart did not drop out of your belly or out of your stomach, Monday because mine did. As a matter of fact I made my daughter stay home yesterday and if she didn’t make so much a noise, she would a stayed home today and maybe the rest of the week. But she loves school and most of the children love school and they are not fully aware of the types of dangers that we keep sending them into.
And you don’t hear nothing: nobody in this country making noise about putting a decent school somewhere in the safe zone for our children and them. We’re talking about airport. We’re talking about all kind of ignorance, helicopter, ferry? The future of this country is them children there that we are educating. And they do not belong in Salem. And if Monday didn’t teach you-all the lesson there, I don’t know what else is going to teach you the lesson there. I think I spoke enough for the night.
I tried not to be emotional this evening as I was this morning. I got a little emotional just now but I hope you all understand, you know, that I have my daughter out there just like all of us have children, all of us, and it is an issue right now that we need to be thinking about deeply. Anyway I thank you all for listening to me tonight and I hope I get another opportunity to come back here and speak to the people of Montserrat.
HS: Thank you very much Chedmond and that brings to the end our program for this evening, Ask the Government. We would like to thank all the callers who called in and made meaningful contributions and we are apologize for the callers who didn’t get a chance, even those who are calling even now that we are wrapping up but I’m sure you’ll join us next week when we have another guest on Ask the Government. Good night.