Taking Control of the Mat
(Extracted from Aikido-L)
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 11:46:23 -0700
From: Susan Mellott
Subject: Taking control of the mat
> --- Philip Akin wrote:
> > > If I may offer this thought. Taking control of a
> > space is not an aggressive act.
When I was preparing for my shodan test, I too worked on being
more... aggressive? intimidating? in-your-face? quick? Whatever
you would call having more of a "presence" or being a force to
be reckoned with. And I found that I was hesitating when being
attacked. Rather than reacting decisively to an attack, I
paused ever so slightly before responding. I also did not move
directly and deeply in (or behind) with the first move, nor did
I get right up against people, I held them at a slight distance
or tried to give them room to move. I worked on moving forward
immediately, bang! when uke moved and moving right up and into
the uke (and putting it on them to move out of the way). Just
concentrating on moving exactly and definitively when uke did
(or actually, in jiyuwaza, moving towards them before they
attacked) really made a big difference and our teacher, Phil,
kept saying that sure I didn't have to worry about being
aggressive enough, which is not something I'd heard that much
before I started this approach. I sort of advanced on uke and
took control of the encounter instead of waiting for them to
decide when and how the encounter was going to happen.
Another thing that has stuck with me for several years was from
a seminar with Saotome sensei where he was demonstrating
katatedori shihonage and was showing how he just kept walking
forward and uke had to come along with him if they hung on,
instead of him having to stop and deal with uke, uke had to deal
with him. He was saying that he was free to move and that they
would have to follow him if they attacked, he didn't have to
quit moving or go where they tried to put him. And that
followed into throwing them - if they got in his way, he didn't
give way for them, he expected them to get out of the way of
him. His movement was not impaired by their actions.
Just some things I've thought about,
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:56:30 -0400
From: Mike Bartman
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
At 11:46 AM 4/25/02 -0700, Susan Mellott wrote:
>> --- Philip Akin wrote:
>> > > If I may offer this thought. Taking control of a
>> > space is not an aggressive act.
>
>When I was preparing for my shodan test, I too worked on being
>more... aggressive? intimidating? in-your-face? quick? Whatever
>you would call having more of a "presence" or being a force to
>be reckoned with.
A couple of people have taken what Philip wrote as suggesting aggression
(despite his saying it was not an aggressive act), or intimidation, or
possesiveness, or in-your-face, or whatever. That's not how I heard him at
all. Quite the oposite in fact. Perhaps it's my prior exposure to Simcox
sensei's ideas on the subject, but I would think that the "me vs. them"
mindset that would seem to go along with a "*MY* mat!!" attitude is
precisely the wrong one for Aikido.
>paused ever so slightly before responding. I also did not move
>directly and deeply in (or behind) with the first move, nor did
>I get right up against people, I held them at a slight distance
>or tried to give them room to move.
Exactly. When you put the attacker "out there", even if you "own" your
space, or maybe *especially* when you "own" your space, you enhance the
feeling of "invasion", and you will generally cause yourself to tense up,
flinch, or otherwise react as if your space is being invaded...because it
*is* being invaded. Psychologically you are amplifying the effect of their
attack on you, and hoping that your internal bluster of "*MY* space!" will
be enough to overcome it...this is a fighting mindset. It may be natural,
but I've been led to believe that it's not right for Aikido.
On the other hand, if you expand your space until it includes the
attacker(s), and you welcome them into it, you remove that "invasion" feel
and the associated psychological downsides on you. These are no longer
invaders come to take over your space, they are guests who have come to
play...dangerous guests perhaps, but folks you have allowed into your area,
and who will be led to comply with your rules while they are there. You
have the advantage, because, after all, it's your home turf, not theirs.
As Mr. T used to say, "pitty the sucker!"
Maybe I've still got it all wrong, but that's my view of it based on my
training so far. I've confirmed bits of it with those in better positions
to know than me...though I suppose I might have mistaken their
confirmations or something. Try it and see?
-- Mike "Clark sensei's old tagline comes to mind here..." Bartman --
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:01:30 -0400
From: Simon Watkins
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
Iwas talking to Eva about presence just before this thread happened.
Her presence seem has grown enourmously since the Euroseminar.Those who
were there Remember how nervous she looked when she took the warm up?
Mainly I think because I have seen her at her home dojo it was in very
real sense her mat. and she was doing techniques she was confident with.
conversely I was the intruder doing unfamiliar things that I had doubts about.
On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:56:30 -0400, Mike Bartman wrote:
>At 11:46 AM 4/25/02 -0700, Susan Mellott wrote:
>>> --- Philip Akin wrote:
>>> > > If I may offer this thought. Taking control of a
>>> > space is not an aggressive act.
>>
>>When I was preparing for my shodan test, I too worked on being
>>more... aggressive? intimidating? in-your-face? quick? Whatever
>>you would call having more of a "presence" or being a force to
>>be reckoned with.
>
>A couple of people have taken what Philip wrote as suggesting aggression
>(despite his saying it was not an aggressive act), or intimidation, or
>possesiveness, or in-your-face, or whatever. That's not how I heard him at
>all. Quite the oposite in fact. Perhaps it's my prior exposure to Simcox
>sensei's ideas on the subject, but I would think that the "me vs. them"
>mindset that would seem to go along with a "*MY* mat!!" attitude is
>precisely the wrong one for Aikido.
My mat my kitchen. same same. its not about fighting or challengng for
terirtory. it is about feeling happy and comfortable in your enviroment.
confident and at home. when you are lord of all you survey you dont have
to be agressive indeed you can be generous, magnaminous.relaxed. You can
offer them a glass of wine welcome them in. or move aside. you own the
whole mat after all. they just happen to occupy a portion of it.
Simon
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:01:38 +0200
From: "James R. Acker"
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
From: "Mike Bartman"
> Why don't you help them? I hate it when I'm left to flounder around when
> there's someone there who could point out the problem right away.
> Especially when I'm not aware that there *is* a specific problem.
>
> -- Mike "advice I get isn't always right, but the intent is always
> appreciated" Bartman --
Why don't you ask them if they know?
I think it is a tricky bit...I know what you mean but there is a real danger
that people "think" they know what your problem is, but in fact are wrong.
I am ashamed to admit there was a period where I was one of these but I outgrew
it. I really hold my tongue now even if I think I know why something isn't
working. I sometimes ask the sensei to come over if they can and tell us what
the problem is. I try to only correct my partner if it is a mechanical, obvious
thing like which hanmi/grab/etc...or if they are stuck about where they go from
some point ("now you tenkan") kind of thing.
I am not advanced enough, usually, to even offer the kind of resistance that
does help. I mean, I am grateful when I try a technique I think I have and uke
stands fast...if done right, because I see that I have more to learn on that.
Okay...sometimes I am exasperated and grateful, but I never get mad about it. I
realize uke is helping me.
But I really hate getting a chatty, know-it-all partner that feels the need to
correct every thing they think is wrong with my technique. These types usually
tell you what you are doing wrong, but sometime demonstrate as well....when in
fact sometimes I am working on a different aspect or they simply have it wrong.
Sometimes I concentrate on one thing over another even though both are wrong. I
think the best way is, unless you are high rank, if you are uke only help with
mechanics when nage is stuck, OR if nage specifically asks "do you know why this
isn't working?". Otherwise I think uke is loaning their body for nage to
experiment the techniques on. If you feel sure you know, you could resist in a
constructive way, don't just go down if your balance isn't taken, I think that
is what uke is supposed to do.
This is only my opinion, and just as on the mat, take it with a grain of salt. I
don't know all that much.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:39:28 -0700
From: Susan Mellott
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
I really try hard not to give unsolicited help, at least until I
get some feedback from the other person that they want some (in
which case it is no longer unsolicited). Not knowing what
someone is working on or how they are feeling makes it really
easy to just be confusing, annoying and/or not very useful. I
think the best thing in most cases anyway is for people to try
to figure things out on their own. I think finding out what
*doesn't* work, is as much a learning experience as trying to
figure out what does. I think patience is a virtue in an uke.
Chances are good that they know they are doing something wrong
too, they are just trying to figure out what and they need a
little time to find it without uke jumping in and trying to fix
their problem for them.
But I will give my 2 cents if someone asks me, anytime. If
someone says "is it left foot or right foot first?" or "am I
taking your balance", or anything, I'll tell them what I think.
So if someone would like my opinion or help, they can ask me.
But I try not to volunteer it, unasked, unless it is a simple
thing like "I think you step forward" or "I think this is from
kosadori" or something very basic just to get someone from being
completely messed up.
There are times when I'll work with someone and we will have a
bit of a running dialog, like "am I taking your balance?", "not
really, maybe if you stepped more behind", "did that help?",
"yeah, I'd go even more deeply in" and so on, back and forth. I
like that, but you have to negotiate up to that point to make
sure you are both on the same wavelength, approx. skill level,
and desire to explore particular things.
Heck, all of it is a negotiation between each other! Each
partner requires an attempt to judge what is appropriate for
them, and constant adjustments as you learn more during the
technique. Some people just are oblivious to whoever is on the
other end of their arm. But to me, that's basically the
antithesis of aikido.
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:36:23 -0700
From: A J Garcia
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
Susan Mellott wrote:
> There are times when I'll work with someone and we will have a
> bit of a running dialog, like "am I taking your balance?", "not
> really, maybe if you stepped more behind", "did that help?",
> "yeah, I'd go even more deeply in" and so on, back and forth. I
> like that, but you have to negotiate up to that point to make
> sure you are both on the same wavelength, approx. skill level,
> and desire to explore particular things.
Oftentimes, these are the most fun people to work with, because
you learn something from doing the technique with them. While I
know that every time you do a technique you _should_ learn
something from it, that doesn't always happen.
> Heck, all of it is a negotiation between each other! Each
> partner requires an attempt to judge what is appropriate for
> them, and constant adjustments as you learn more during the
> technique. Some people just are oblivious to whoever is on the
> other end of their arm. But to me, that's basically the
> antithesis of aikido.
Amen.
Al
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:44:44 -0500
From: Monica Bielke
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
Susan
>>>Re: (women over 40)We tend to give other people too much space.
Susie
> > Exactly. Why is that? (or at least, why is it so hard *not* to do it?).
Susan
> For me, it was because I was not used to people I didn't know putting their
hands on me...Plus I had more fear than most people, I think. Not just a
physical fear, but I wanted to be a nice girl and nice girls don't blow through
other people--they give away their space.
I'm right there with both of you. I think, aside from any other issues,
lots of women over 40 are *just* old enough to have been taught (mostly
unconsciously IMO) that nice girls give away their own space to others.
I've come a long way, but I still find myself doing it on the mat
completely unawares. Something will be going wrong with a particular
technique and in looking more carefully at what I'm doing/where I'm
moving, I'll find that yes, once again I am giving away too much space,
letting uke take mine, rather than the other way round. Argh! At least
by now the emotional battle to get over that conditioning is pretty much
over, and it's more just realizing it's happening and working on fixing
it.
BTW - It was great to see Susie and Sean down in Bloomington yesterday.
You guys gotta get down to see us more often! Was the newaza fun or
what?!! <g>
Monica
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:08:43 -0700
From: Susan Mellott
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
Susan D. wrote:
>> For me, it was because I was not used to people I didn't
>> know putting
>> their hands on me...Plus I had more fear than most people, I
>> think. Not
>> just a physical fear, but I wanted to be a nice girl and nice
>> girls
>> don't blow through other people--they give away their space.
>
Monica wrote:
> I'm right there with both of you. I think, aside from any
> other issues,
> lots of women over 40 are *just* old enough to have been
> taught (mostly
> unconsciously IMO) that nice girls give away their own space
> to others.
Yes, I agree that we were taught to give away our space to
others. I've never been afraid or uncomfortable with people
touching me in aikido, but I do just naturally and unconciously
give away my space.
> I've come a long way, but I still find myself doing it on the
> mat
> completely unawares. Something will be going wrong with a
> particular
> technique and in looking more carefully at what I'm
> doing/where I'm
> moving, I'll find that yes, once again I am giving away too
> much space,
> letting uke take mine, rather than the other way round. Argh!
Me too. I have to keep looking for it because when I don't, I
fall back into the habit. Actually, Sean also tends at times to
hold people at a distance too. It is maybe a different thing,
but similar effect. I go around people and he trys to hold
people away from him, but neither of us just go where we want
and expect the uke to move themselves.
> BTW - It was great to see Susie and Sean down in Bloomington
> yesterday.
> You guys gotta get down to see us more often! Was the newaza
> fun or
> what?!! <g>
It was great to see you and everyone too! Long day though - 3.5
hr drive, 2.5 hr training, 3.5 hour drive and then a party that
evening. I am sore and tired today.
The newaza was excellent! That was the first time I'd ever done
it. I would love to learn more and to practice it some.
Susie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:07:11 -0400
From: "Drysdale, Alan E."
Subject: Re: Taking control of the mat
Simon said:
>Hmm Being centred is a about being confident rather than being agressive.
Knowing wether and which your opponent will respond to with aggression. Which
will intimidate him and which will rile him is a gift I wish God would give me.
Why would you care? Being centered, you do your thing and let him do his.
If you are trying to intimidate him, it is less likely to succeed than if
you are just calm and ready, and giving him only the openings you want him
to see.
OTOH, didn't Musashi talk about moving the shadows, or something like that?
Alan
------------------------------
Last updated on 13 Sep 2002