Bad
Stretching -- was: Suwari-waza for Beginner
(Extracted from Aikido-L)
From: Janet Rosen
>I am now at a point where I will take NOTHING for granted in terms of it
>being "the way its done" or "traditional" or "somebody said so," because
>there IS a body of modern athletic research for us to learn from that
>was not available 200, 100 or even 20 yrs ago. Heck, I was kvetching to
>a sempai (who had HER acl replaced a yr before mine; she has since
>broken her other foot AND developed bursitis in the bad knee.....) about
>the "sit in seiza and lie back" thing and she looked at me in wide-eyed
>surprise and said "But...its a YOGA position." oh. right. So it MUST be
>good for you. grrr...
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:49:34 +0000
From: "Cooper, Sue"
Subject: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
What is it about that "sit in seiza and lie back" stretch that is bad for the
knees? I'm asking because we do that stretch before the start of most
classes. Is it just bad for people who already have knee problems, or can it
cause trouble with "healthy" knees?
Sue Cooper
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:11:10 EST
From: Tony Fontaine
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
[ * Moderator: Cut * ]
I do this stretch on a regular basis before class. I find it beneficial for
stretching the muscle between the lower pelvic bone and knee. [Note: need to
learn the name of muscles.] However, this stretch is not mandatory. Those with
bad knees know the stretch is too painful and are allowed to do
something else. Now thanks to Carol Shifflett, I am undertaking a new line of
study into myofascial trigger points therapy. Chances are this muscle is
causing problems and causing knee pain. Hopefully the therapy will relieve the
discomfort and improve leg operation.
Tony in Southern Maryland
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 09:23:22 -0500
From: Christopher Bartlett
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
I would *never* advocate the use of this stretch. The hyperflexion combined
with the force applied by your body weight is a joint problem waiting to
happen. Yes, you will get a good quad stretch out of it, but there are safer
ways, e.g. lie on your stomach and grab your foot and pull it towards your
butt. This is at least better, since you don't have weight on the knee that is
being flexed. (Note, if you're not flexible enough to reach your foot in this
position, use your belt or something equivalent.)
Chris Bartlett
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:57:47 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
Hi, Sue. I thought my post addressed that but maybe not. It compresses the
structures of the joint, which can be harmful for the knee cartilage, whether
the cartilage is already messed up or not. Whatever it stretches can be
stretched by other means.
janet
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 07:59:25 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
Tony F wrote:
I do this stretch on a regular basis before class. I find it beneficial for
stretching the muscle between the lower pelvic bone and knee. [Note: need to
learn the name of muscles.] However, this stretch is not mandatory. Those with
bad knees know the stretch is too painful and are allowed to do something else.
ACtually, it never caused me pain. The problem is not muscle pain, it is
pressure on cartilage.
The thigh, pelvis and back muscles are all stretched by other means either
sitting or standing.
janet
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:47:34 -0800
From: John Davis
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
--- Christopher Bartlett wrote:
> I would *never* advocate the use of this stretch. The hyperflexion
> combined with the force applied by your body weight is a joint problem
> waiting to happen. Yes, you will get a good quad stretch out of it, but
> there are safer ways, e.g. lie on your stomach and grab your foot and pull
> it towards your butt. This is at least better, since you don't have weight
> on the knee that is being flexed. (Note, if you're not flexible enough to
> reach your foot in this position, use your belt or something equivalent.)
I do the same stretch standing up. I just put the top of my foot on the kitchen
counter and lean back until the heel is as close as possible to my glutes.
Definitely better for me with a bad knee then the seiza stretch.
John
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Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 14:57:00 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
John Davis wrote:
> I do the same stretch standing up. I just put the top of my foot on the
kitchen counter and lean back until the heel is as close as possible to my
glutes. Definitely better for me with a bad knee then the seiza stretch.
Hi. The thing to bear in mind is that its not how close the foot gets to your
butt that counts, its the angle between the top of your thigh and your hip that
matters (needs to be back, so the low back is arching a bit) to engage and
stretch the quads AS you push with your hand
janet
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:35:49 -0800
From: John Davis
Subject: Re: bad stretching (was RE: suwari-waza for beginner)
--- Janet Rosen wrote:
> > I do the same stretch standing up. I just put the top of my foot on the
> kitchen counter and lean back until the heel is as close as possible to my
> glutes. Definitely better for me with a bad knee then the seiza stretch.
>
> Hi. The thing to bear in mind is that its not how close the foot gets to
> your butt that counts, its the angle between the top of your thigh and
> your hip that matters (needs to be back, so the low back is arching a
> bit) to engage and stretch the quads AS you push with your hand
> janet
>
Janet,
I normally push off the door frame opposite (narrow kitchen, good for tenkan). I
strive to get the lower back bowed as far as my poor lumbar disks will allow me.
I feel the stretch in the main part of the quads and the abdominals just above
the joint. Does this sound about the right way to do it?
John
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Last updated on 13 Sep 2002