First Aid
Kits
(Extracted from Aikido-L)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:58:25 -0000
From: Simon Watkins
Subject: first aid Kits
[ * Moderator: Cut * ]
So what should be in a dojo First Aid kit? I have a personal one in my kit bag.
Who else carries one?
Simon
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:11:21 -0500
From: jdsingleton
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
In my kit bag I carry some medical tape, a few gauze pads, some Band-Aids, and
some ibuprofen.
Our dojo first aid kit is fairly well equipped, including tape, gauze, Band-Aids
of various sizes, gauze pads, disposable gloves, cold packs, etc. (We have a
case of cold packs in the cabinet.) We inventory the first aid kit on a regular
basis, too. (If someone wants an actual list of what we have, I can probably get
it and post it.)
Although we've only had one serious injury n the past few years--a broken
clavicle--we tend to take first aid seriously. We canceled our Saturday class
once in February and had the American Red Cross come in and teach a CPR/basic
first aid class. While a number of us have had basic first aid training in the
past, none of us had current CPR certifications. We plan to do the training
every February.
Oh, a copy of Janet's "Dojo Emergency Protocol" is posted inside the door to
each of our storage cabinets, too.
Jim Singleton
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:18:10 -0500
From: Blake Moorcroft
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
We had our resident doctor prepare a first aid kit for us, and include a list of
all the items so that if he was not around we could re-stock it as case may be.
It originally started with routine items like bandages, gauze, scissors,
antiseptic, gloves, etc. It now includes splinting material, smelling salts,
general pain medication (over the counter), cold packs, AR shields, tensor
bandages, slings, and assorted sundry items...it's quite big.
We even include kid's type band-aids with the cartoon logos in case they get
bo-bo's...course we find the adults tend to want to use those more than the
kids...:)
More later
Blake Moorcroft (Sei Bu)
Chudokan Aikido Dojo
Chudokai Aikido Federation International
http://www.mnsi.net/~chudo/
Windsor, Ontario, Canada
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:52:25 GMT
From: Mike Cummins
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
From a UK basis, having recently done my "First Aid at Work" refresher, I am
worried by the replies quoting ibuprofen etc.
We were specifically told that they should *not* be kept in the First Aid Kit or
offered to anyone as that could be construed as "prescribing".
Mike
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 06:58:32 -0500
From: Monica Norman
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
Our dojo has (since Martin's eyelid-cutting arrival :-) it's own fairly complete
first aid kit, but I carry my own for when I'm out at various seminars, etc. It
expanded a little bit recently when I went on a 3-day Search & Rescue course.
It's mostly PT stuff - "second skin", tape, scissors, antiseptic wipes, bandaids
(plasters) of different sizes, feminine products, polysporin ointment, arnica
cream, aspirin, and tweezers. All squeezed into a 100g tin box that used to
hold Maxim's biscuits.
Fairly personal to my own particular problems (like knees that occasionally need
to be taped), but at least I know I've got what I need when I need it.
Monica
(whose English and accent has deteriorated beyond all recognition by her UK
sensei and dojomates :-)
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:41:19 -0500
From: jdsingleton
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
At 3/5/02 5:34:00 AM, Mike Cummins wrote:
> From a UK basis, having recently done my "First Aid at Work"
> refresher, I am worried by the replies quoting ibuprofen etc.
>
> We were specifically told that they should *not* be kept in
> the First Aid Kit or offered to anyone as that could be
> construed as "prescribing".
As someone who mentioned ibuprofen, it is not in our first aid kit, but I do
have some in the bag I take to the dojo. We don't have any aspirin, ibuprofen,
etc. in our first aid kit.
Jim Singleton
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:24:59 +0000
From: Jim Boone
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
> In my kit bag I carry some medical tape, a few gauze pads, some
> Band-Aids, and some ibuprofen.
So who here doesn't carry vitamin I?
--
Jim Boone
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:07:19 EST
From: Tony Fontaine
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
Have one in the dojo for everyone to use. Bandaids are the most popular item. We
do have tape, gauze pads, chemical cold pack and CPR mouth piece. Not allowed to
have burn cream or asprin due to government safety regulations.
Tony in Maryland
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:44:01 -0500
From: Chuck
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:24:59 +0000, Jim Boone wrote:
>So who here doesn't carry vitamin I?
I don't. I took so much of it due to a shoulder injury whilst in the Army, it
really doesn't do much for me. In order for it to work at all, I have to
take massive amounts, it seems.
I prefer plain aspirin for most things, occasionally a naprosyn for worse achies.
And Monica's accent, by the way, has improved markedly. When she first arrived,
she sounded positively ENGLISH! ;^>
Nowadays, the only time that creeps out is when she puts on her schoolmarm voice
for a recalcitrant uke ...
Chuck
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:18:45 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
Other folks pretty much covered this.
At this point I don't go ANYwhere without at least one disposable glove tucked
into a purse or pocket. Don't want to have to stop and look for
alternatives in a situation. As a contact lens user I always have a couple of
single use saline thingies with me, and I include a bottle of eye wash saline
solution in the dojo first aid kit. Dojo kit should have sugar tabs or tubes
available in case member or visiting diabetics run into trouble. We always kept
ibuprofin and aspirin on hand, never suggesting that anybody should. I can't
imagine that for an adult membership population it poses a legal problem to
simply have a product sitting there.
janet
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:10:09 -0500
From: jdsingleton
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
Good point. I'll have to check and see if we have sugar/glucose in our first aid
kit. I know the only diabetic we have training doesn't normally carry any.
This brings up the question of how do you identify people with problems? An
injury can easily be identified with duct tape, but what about a non-injury? For
example, someone that's diabetic? You can't really wear a Medic Alert ID
bracelet/necklace on the mat. (I know of one diabetic, at another dojo, who has
a small patch sewn on his gi.) Is taking medication for seizures? Something
else?
When we sign someone up, we ask about allergies, medical conditions, and other
special conditions. Of course, this relies on the person signing up being
honest. (We had someone who said "none" to the previous questions and less than
a minute later mentioned, off-hand, that he was taking medication for seizures.)
Since I normally get the task of signing people up, I know if they've disclosed
any conditions and I'll point that out to our chief instructor. I don't know if
the person who keeps the registration/release forms tells the teaching staff.
I'd guess they'd need to be reminded on a regular basis, too, because it would
be easy to forget over time.
Should everyone in the dojo know? What if the person with the allergy/condition
doesn't want it public knowledge? A condition which could be contagious, say
hepatitis or HIV, is different than something like epilepsy or a heart
condition.
When we held our recent seminar with Frank Doran Sensei, I made sure that our
chief instructor, another member of our teaching staff, and the three people
designated for first aid, had a complete list of all the allergies/conditions
that people had noted when they registered. It's easy to remember this for a
seminar, but how do you track it for normal classes? Perhaps a list posted in
the first aid kit?
Jim Singleton
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:34:38 -0500
From: Mike Bartman
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
That's a pattern well known to the computer support world. People never answer
the question you asked. They answer the question you asked, as modified by
their expectations of what they think you need to know. Being unaware of this
can lead to all sorts of frustrating situations with computers, and deadly ones
with medical issues.
I suspect that your example person heard, "Do you have any allergies, medical
conditions or other special conditions?" translated that internally into "Do you
have any allergies, medical conditions or other special conditions that should
preclude you from practicing tonight?" and answered that one, based on their
expectations of what was involved in practice.
With computers the question, "Have you changed your program AT ALL?" is usually
translated into, "Have you changed your program in a way that you think would
account for this bizarre behavior you are seeing?" before they construct an
answer, which is usually "no".
-- Mike "I've found it's safest to aassume they are lying and check it for
myself" Bartman --
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:49:11 -0800
From: John Davis
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
--- Simon Watkins wrote:
> Janet Said
>
> So what should be in a dojo First Aid kit? I have a personal one in
> my kit bag. Who else carries one?
>
I did, Simon. Some linament (tiger balm), instant ice and heat packs, an ACE or
two and some gauze pads and compreses as well as some Neosporin and sinus spray
(dust, you know).
John
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:10:21 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
jdsingleton wrote:
> This brings up the question of how do you identify people with problems?
(SNIP)
> Should everyone in the dojo know?
NO. There are issues of privacy and confidentiality. If the person WISHES to
discuss it freely, its his or her perogative.
Beyond that, teaching/administrative staff should be aware. You shouldn't need
to "track it" if its membership; just as one knows about Jane Doe's pregnancy or
John Doe's bad elbow, or that somebody has a beard or wears glasses, its not
really difficult to remember that Joe Blow has diabetes.
IMO, a person who normally wears a medicalert should alert key dojo persons that
they do and that during practice it will be put ...wherever--on my hat, in my
shoes...unless they are able to secure it on their persons in a way to allow for
safe practice--OK: those of you who DO wear them: what do you do in the dojo?
janet
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:58:42 -0500
From: jdsingleton
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
At 3/21/02 8:18:00 AM, Janet Rosen wrote:
> jdsingleton wrote:
>> This brings up the question of how do you identify people
>> with problems?
> (SNIP)
>> Should everyone in the dojo know?
>
> NO. There are issues of privacy and confidentiality. If the person
> WISHES to discuss it freely, its his or her perogative.
Which is what I thought and what prompted the question.
> Beyond that, teaching/administrative staff should be aware. You
> shouldn't need to "track it" if its membership; just as one knows
> about Jane Doe's pregnancy or John Doe's bad elbow, or that
> somebody has a beard or wears glasses, its not really difficult
> to remember that Joe Blow has diabetes.
I disagree. Maybe if you see Joe Blow testing his blood sugar or injecting
insulin, but with no outward signs, it's something that you can easily forget.
(The Type I diabetic, who tested their blood sugar midway through class was easy
to remember; the Type II, who is not on medication and doesn't test their blood
sugar at the dojo is easy to forget.) I know this from first hand experience,
based on a conversation with our chief instructor a few months back, when he
mentioned he'd forgotten that X was diabetic. I think it does need to be tracked
to some extent. I'll have to give this some thought.
> IMO, a person who normally wears a medicalert should alert key dojo
> persons that they do and that during practice it will be put
Although key dojo personnel have been told, they forget. (See my comment,
above.) We have some instructors who only teach once a month or so, which means
they may not remember. That means that someone who is there needs to know. Maybe
we need to track it and just make sure that whomever is instructing is reminded
about it?
> OK: those of you who DO wear them: what do you do in the dojo?
I just put it with my watch, either in my pocket or shoe, in the changing area.
If I could find a cloth equivalent, I might get a dozen and sew them on my
sleeve.
Jim Singleton
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:30:40 -0000
From: Simon Watkins
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
Medication is an offical no no in a first aid box. Pills, ointments etc are all
against guidelines.But if you are at a festival/fete show somewhere I tand get
stung I bet they will put some anti histamine on it at the first aid tent Most
first aiders I know dont keep it seperate from their other things. But of
course that is not a first aid kit. they tend to use bags that are not marked
as first aid kits. Hmm the one in kit bag isnt either its jus a zip lock. It
needs a new reel of Zinc oxide (another no no) tape. People tell me that the
hypoalergenic stuff sticks to itself quite well but sometimes thats not what you
want.
And it contains nothing naughty at all I think the tube of arnica. migrated
to the clubs official first aid kit a while back. Tut! and dont carry
ibuprofin any more. My knees just dont seem to bother me nowadays:^))) I
replaced it in the kit bag around christmas. It tends to get removed when I
find myself short of a plaster at home. and only replaced if I am going to a
event.
Simon
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:08:04 -0500
From: "Drysdale, Alan E."
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
jdsingleton wrote:
>> This brings up the question of how do you identify people with problems?
(SNIP)
> Should everyone in the dojo know?
Janet
>NO. There are issues of privacy and confidentiality. If the person WISHES to
discuss it freely, its his or her perogative.
>Beyond that, teaching/administrative staff should be aware. You shouldn't need
to "track it" if its membership; just as one knows about Jane Doe's pregnancy or
John Doe's bad elbow, or that somebody has a beard or wears glasses, its not
really difficult to remember that Joe Blow has diabetes.
Having had the dubious distinction of having a student die in class, this issue
is not something I feel complacent about. Yes we need to respect people's
privacy, but we do need to make a serious attempt to find out what problems
people have. People will lie, also. If I'd known how sick the guy was, I
wouldn't have let him in the room to do more than watch, even though he'd been
practicing for years with no apparent problems. I knew he had a heart problem,
had just had a treadmill test, but had no idea it was as serious as it was. Did
he know how serious it was? I suspect he did, and didn't want to tell us
because we'd not have let him keep on practicing. At least he didn't die at the
wheel of the big car he used to drive and maybe take some others along with
him. It really had nothing to do with aikido. We had barely got started. Just
after the warm up (not very strenuous) he didn't get up. Fortunately, there was
an MD on the mat. He took charge, gave him CPR. The paramedics were there in
90 seconds. (Yes, somebody did time them. They only had to come two blocks.)
He was DOA, and probably dead when they took him out (though paramedics can't
officially pronounce someone dead). Massive heart attack.
Alan
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:12:31 -0800
From: Patric Senson
Subject: Re: medical conditions (was first aid kits)
I'm sorry, I couldn't let this part go by
unchallenged...
--- jdsingleton wrote:
> Should everyone in the dojo know? What if the person
> with the
> allergy/condition doesn't want it public knowledge?
> A condition which
> could be contagious, say hepatitis or HIV, is
> different than something
> like epilepsy or a heart condition.
Which of these sets are you suggesting should be kept anonymous? I'd say a heart
condition or epilepsy would have a higher possibility of on the mat impact than
either of these contagious conditions...the two you happen to have picked aren't
exactly likely to cross from one person to another in a training environment,
and disclosure may severely impact attitudes of others in the dojo, especially
if they buy into all the false propoganda that's been spread about HIV and HepC
over the years.
Just looking for clarity :)
Pat
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:26:54 -0500
From: Blake Moorcroft
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
On 21 Mar 2002 at 12:10, jdsingleton wrote:
> Should everyone in the dojo know? What if the person with the
> allergy/condition doesn't want it public knowledge? A condition which
> could be contagious, say hepatitis or HIV, is different than something
> like epilepsy or a heart condition.
We require students that train to note what special medical conditions they have
on the waiver they sign when they join a program. That information gets
consolidated and put forward to the chief instructor and to those instructors
handling the various classes. Those people with special conditions such as
diabetes or asthma are required to have their medication with them when they
train. I suppose there's always a chance that someone might be foolish and
decide to hide their condition from others, but if they want to do that, I'm not
sure what one can do.
As for everyone knowing, I'd think that would be unnecessary. Certainly the
people in charge of the class would need to know...beyond that, disclosure would
be up to the individual in question.
More later
Blake Moorcroft (Sei Bu)
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Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:53:05 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: first aid Kits
"Drysdale, Alan E." wrote:
> Having had the dubious distinction of having a student die in class, this
> issue is not something I feel complacent about. Yes we need to respect
> people's privacy, but we do need to make a serious attempt to find out what
> problems people have.
Hi, Alan. I quite agree about not being complacent about it; my reference to
privacy was NOT in terms of dojocho and senior staff but in terms of full dojo
population knowing each other's medical history, and I apologize if that was
ambiguous.
Yes, people will deny problems, not only to others but to themselves. Hell, how
many listka have posted something or another about an injury, seeking advice,
along with the info that they don't think its THAT bad, they are STILL training
full tilt, etc etc ;-)
janet
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Last updated on 13 Sep 2002