Credibility and Acceptance
(Extracted from Aikido-L)

Date:    Fri, 17 May 2002 16:07:58 -0400
From:    "Drysdale, Alan E."
Subject: Credibility and acceptance

Chris posted an interesting position a few days ago, as to why martial arts get less credibility in academic circles than arts like dancing.

Besides the point he made about reviews, I guess that there aren't too many scholarly papers of any sort about aikido.  I bet there is lots more written
about dancing, but probably more people doing it too.

It seems to me that there are a number of martial artists at universities, and that working together would strengthen their hand and the academic credibility of all of us, if that is what we want.  Perhaps some guidelines as to what to publish would be a good start.  In my field (engineering) there are standards as to what is publishable and what is not.  I have never seen such standards for martial arts publications.  Clearly the commoner publications have a goal of mostly making money, but some of the better publications clearly have some standards, though I've not seen them in
writing.

What sort of standards should be promulgated for articles about martial arts, about reviews?  I guess that few people are going to say anything bad
about prominent teachers.  Critics in the art world who publish derogatory critiques don't have to fear that the subject of their critique will be a bit rough with them next time, or that the teacher's students would be.  We tend to identify who taught, who else was there, what was taught, and give
some sort of evaluation, particularly what caught our attention.

We as teachers should perhaps change our expectations also.  We tend to think that because we are teachers that we should be immune to critiques
except from our personal sensei, if we still have one.  Perhaps thinking about the sort of reviews we would get at our next seminar would be good for
us, perhaps not.

How do dancers get to be teachers?  Somebody on the list probably can tell us.  AFAIK, they do a lot of dancing, preferably at a prestigious
place/organization, then go teach, either independently or for an organization, probably when you get a bit old for performances.  I guess the well known ones like Nureyev and Fontein get students, the less well known ones get fewer students.  I don't know if you have to be licenced or not.  I
don't know if you need to take teaching classes or not.

Another parallel might be religious leaders.  There is not, AFAIK, the same sort of atmosphere of criticism in the religious community that there is in
the art community, though there are differing degrees of tollerance.  How do preachers get credibility?  AFAIK, they do it in several ways: by membership in a national organization like the Catholic Church, which trains its own people and assigns them jobs.  By academic degrees, which then make them elligible for a job in an independent church, which may be part of a federation of churches.  (I believe the Baptists are organized this way,
from what I've heard).  By proclaimation, where they say they are a leader, and get followers.  I know of people who have got tax exempt status by
simply claiming they are religious leaders.  (I don't know if the IRS investigates at all.  For the non-US readers, there are tax advantages here for being a preacher.  You pay no taxes either income or property, AFAIK.)

The large aikido organizations certainly train their own teachers and assign them to areas, at least at the highest level.  There might be more flexibility than in the Catholic Church, too.  Didn't Kanetsuka start in Yoshinkan and become Aikikai?  I guess most lower level teachers ask permission to open a dojo near where they live, though I have heard of lower level teachers also being told to go open a school in a specific area. Sometimes the organization will provide startup funding, sometimes not.

I don't know of any academic institution that awards degrees in martial arts, though I know of lots of schools that have dojos associated with them
where the students can get rank through the dojo and its parent organization.

I guess lots of people reach some rank and open independent dojos.  I suspect more start out affiliated with a large organization and break away
because of politics, in some form or other.

So it seems to me that martial arts follow the religious model rather than the arts model, though with the risk that if somebody doesn't believe in you
they might come and check you out, and people tend to be somewhat polite for the same reason.  We have often joked about Professor Duncan, especially at list seminars.  But how does he stay in business (and I assume he does make a living that way).  Is it just self promotion?

Is it different in other countries?  Possibly, though it seemed pretty much the same in the UK.  I seem to remember that Beate was required by the
government (Germany?) to take some training.  For a while, karate in Germany was controlled by Shotokan folks, so if you did another style, you also had to do Shotokan to get officially recognized rank.  So I guess another way to get legitimacy would be for the local authorities to bless you.  There was something like that starting up in the UK when I left.  As an existing instructor I was grandfathered in.

Alan

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Date:    Fri, 17 May 2002 16:39:22 -0400
From:    ben eriksen
Subject: Re: Credibility and acceptance

Good Question........
I would think that the best Critic would be one's students, for example if your Dojo had an total of 30 students, and within a week your Dojo had 2
would that not count as a good hint..?

 Ben Eriksen

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Date:    Fri, 17 May 2002 16:39:37 -0400
From:    Jim Mc Coy
Subject: Re: Credibility and acceptance

Not really - Traditional martial arts has a high drop out rate with only 2-5% staying long enough to reach Shodan. Typically, it is the larger schools where you will receive the poorest training.  There are some exceptions - since serious martial artists may flock to a particular school to train with an exceptional teacher. But generally, most will quit in a short time. A school with a lot of black belts may be in indicator of low standards.  A very high number of students may be an indicator of weak training.  A slick, commercial instructor knows that if the students have to work to hard to get belts they quit.  If the students quit, he may have to get a job.

jm

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Date:    Fri, 17 May 2002 17:33:29 -0700
From:    Lorien Lowe
Subject: Re: Credibility and acceptance

--- "Drysdale, Alan E." wrote: > Chris posted an interesting position a few days ago,
> as to why martial arts
> get less credibility in academic circles than arts
> like dancing.

dosen't anyone suppose it might have something to do with the 'badass' demeanor of some of the more vocal proponents? I think there's a perception ammong many that martial arts are practiced in order to be good at kicking butt, as opposed to being practiced in order to
achieve good technique and learn about oneself.

-Lorien

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Date:    Sat, 18 May 2002 09:55:24 +0900
From:    Christopher Li
Subject: Re: Credibility and acceptance

>dosen't anyone suppose it might have something to do
>with the 'badass' demeanor of some of the more vocal
>proponents?
>I think there's a perception ammong many that martial
>arts are practiced in order to be good at kicking
>butt, as opposed to being practiced in order to
>achieve good technique and learn about oneself.

OTOH, that perception is accurate in many cases, even for recent times. Historically, of course, that perception would have been true more often
than not.

Best,

Chris

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Date:    Mon, 20 May 2002 09:14:34 -0600
From:    Jun Akiyama
Subject: Re: Organizational Legitimacy (was Re: OT US civil war)

Chris Kuszmaul wrote:
>   Last year, I went through the process of applying for (and not getting
> (shrug)) the position of Director the the Stanford Martial Arts Program
> (SMAP). SMAP is not a department at Stanford, it is a collection of martial
> arts clubs. But I got to wondering what it would take to make it into a
> department. Why is there a dance department but not a martial arts
> department? What really distinguishes linguistics (my wife has a Stanford
> Ph.D. in it) from Aikido, as a worthy academic pursuit?

There's the "Kokusai Budo Daigaku" (International Budo University) in the Chiba prefecture in Japan which includes majors in such "national" martial arts such as judo, kendo, and "budo" (which looks to have "specialties" in kyudo, aikido, karatedo, shorinji kenpo, and naginata):

        http://www.budo-u.ac.jp/ (in Japanese)

Naropa University actually has an "aikido emphasis" within its Traditional Eastern Arts major:

        http://www.naropa.edu/traditionaleasternarts/aikido.html

Of course, the university itself is pretty eclectic having been founded by Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche back in the mid 1970's.  As such, their aikido classes (some of which I have gone as an unofficial "teacher's aid" (unofficial in that I didn't have any duties nor responsibilities outside of showing up and helping out on the mat and that I didn't get paid)) seemed to me to be more geared towards self-exploration and contemplation and less towards the "martially effective."  Some of the folks from there, though, do end up training regularly at our dojo.

>  The *review* is, in my opinion, the kind of scholarship that has
> legitimized other arts - such as dance and music - in ways that martial arts
> have missed out on. It is a critical addition to these arts, because very
> few people have the time and inclination to both reach a high level of
> scholarship about, as well as performance within the art. But it has
> generally (before aikido-l and the like) been hard to write about martial
> arts without having that high level of performance based legitimacy.

Frankly, I think that this List is, in and of itself, not representative of the general budo community.  The structure here (or lack thereof) lends itself to "armchair budoka" who are happy to enter discussions about which they have no "performance based legitimacy" (as you put it).

I wonder -- are there people in the academic world in such circles as dance and music who are taken seriously without having performance based legitimacy?  I'm not talking about critics for the local paper but folks whose articles are cited for thesii and such.  And regardless of the answer, would we want people without performance based legitimacy involved in critiquing aikido and the likes?

As far as comparing budo to dance and music, I think it's a close match.  However, one of the things that makes aikido and other martial arts a bit different is the "spirituality factor."  Of course, dance and music also include spirituality, but many budo such as aikido seem to include it near the top of its list (for some folks).

Then, how does a spiritually-oriented subject like religious studies get to be academicalized (for a lack of a better word)?  Although many religions have mystical overtones (eg reincarnation and karma in Tibetan Buddhism), these concepts seem to be better defined (at least at first glance) than notions like "what is ki/connection/effectiveness" in aikido.

Also, perhaps budo (even aikido) has too much invested in "tradition"? Many forms of dance, music, and other "arts" seem to have innovation in its mindset; I don't know, personally, how much innovation I've seen in aikido.  We pretty much use the same set of techniques, the same manner of warming up, and the same methods of practice that we've had for the past, say, forty years.  But, then again, I guess we do have subjets such as classical Greek and Latin (both "dead" languages) that still seem to survive...

Interesting subject.  Wish Peter Boylan were around for his thoughts.

> CLK

        Jun

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Last updated on 13 Sep 2002