Cross
Training in Different Dojos
(Extracted from Aikido-L)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 21:54:13 +0100
From: "James R. Acker"
Subject: Re: Grab my wrist was Re: Tenchinage (was Re: Any one know him?)
Okay....Jake and Julian, I understand what you are saying, and maybe I can just
start doing it this way. I know I would like to, but I have the feeling it is
going to start confusing all my partners..maybe it just takes a while. I'll be
the dojo "oddball", or else it'll catch on.
I still think this is a valid question though....say you read something here
that just makes tons of sense to you but isn't how it is done at your dojo. Say
it is something like this issue, where one can certainly start just doing it
that way....if someone complains just point out that they still just need to
grab your wrist...it just isn't pointed down, or so static.
But then you are doing something that you didn't learn in the dojo, but in
another place. Almost as if you learned it at another dojo and took it back with
you.
Any thoughts on this? I would like to hear thoughts on this or experiences....OR
advice in "how do I do this" :-)
Jim
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:19:57 -0500
From: Blake Moorcroft
Subject: Re: Grab my wrist was Re: Tenchinage (was Re: Any one know him?)
Unless your instructor frowns on "cross-training", I'd say just do it. I
wouldn't defy instructions on if they're teaching a specific movement, but you
can always incorporate stuff. I've only run into one instructor who was adamant
about "you do it this way"...I don't train with him anymore...:)
More later
Blake Moorcroft (Sei Bu)
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 16:50:50 -0500
From: Katherine Derbyshire
Subject: Re: Grab my wrist was Re: Tenchinage (was Re: Any one know him?)
From: "James R. Acker"
> But then you are doing something that you didn't learn in the dojo, but in
another place. Almost as if you learned it at another dojo and took it back with
you.
>
> Any thoughts on this? I would like to hear thoughts on this or
experiences....OR advice in "how do I do this" :-)
I'd say the answer is pretty much the same as it is for crosstraining: it
depends on your teacher and your level. If you are a complete beginner, doing
things the way your teacher tells you is probably best. Nothing you read (here
or anywhere) is a substitute for on-the-mat experience. If you are an advanced
student, say sandan or above, you've probably reached the point where you should
be starting to question what your teacher says and if he doesn't like that it
may be time to find a new teacher.
In between.... some teachers are very open to people bringing outside influences
to the mat, some aren't. Many will be happy to let you experiment when you're
working with more senior people, but would prefer you did things "correctly"
when working with more junior students. Most will be very unhappy if you are
perceived as contradicting the person teaching the class. If you know so much,
why aren't you the teacher?
It may also be the case that you simply need to train with more advanced
students within your dojo. Pay close attention to how your teacher moves
when demonstrating and how the more senior students move when working with each
other. It may turn out that your teacher really is offering the hand more
dynamically, but he hasn't emphasized it and so you hadn't noticed before. If
you do things the way he does, then you're on solid ground even if no one else
in the dojo agrees with you.
Katherine
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:38:02 -0500
From: Jake Jacobe
Subject: Re: Grab my wrist was Re: Tenchinage (was Re: Any one know him?)
James R. Acker wrote:
>I'll be the dojo "oddball", or else it'll catch on.
I'll let Brother Jon address being the dojo oddball (hey ... I'm just kidding
,bro ...see ---> :-)
>But then you are doing something that you didn't learn in the dojo, but in
>another place. Almost as if you learned it at another dojo and took it
>back with you.
In my early years, I traveled to many different dojos of many different styles.
I learned many different techniques and even different attitudes than what I
learned in my home dojo. My sensei was fairly easy going about this and told me
that I could incorporate anything as long as it didn't violate the basic
prinicples of Ki Aikido. As I moved into a senior position within my dojo, this
became easier since I got to decide which techniques we would work on that day.
:-)
One thing to do would be to talk to your sensei about the things you read here.
Maybe she/he will encourage you to try them with others, maybe she/he will be
able to convince you that they don't actually make as much sense on the mat as
they seem to when you read them on the list, maybe
she/he will just forbid you to deviate from the dojo standard. It is best to
follow your sensei's advice as long as you choose to train with her/him.
Alternatively, you might choose a few of your fellow classmates who you think
might want to train in a more "realistic" manner and when you pair off with
them, you can have a more threatening hand for them to grab (and they with you
as well). There are always a few students who are willing to experiment a
little. With the others, just train as always. This way, everyone is happy.
>Any thoughts on this? I would like to hear thoughts on this or
>experiences....OR advice in "how do I do this" :-)
This is the best I can think of this late at night. Good luck.
Jake
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:20:31 +0100
From: "James R. Acker"
Subject: Re: Grab my wrist was Re: Tenchinage (was Re: Any one know him?)
In reading so far I see two replies that "just try it out unless the head
instructor doesn't like it" and giving good advice....the thing is, it isn't
only that one is allowed to do it, you also have a partner in every technique.
This is kind of the problem I foresee. That if you find a new way, or variation
on something it just will confuse all your partners.
If everyone else in the dojo, politely and meekly offers a wrist for the taking,
and I am the only one aggressively going for the throat, I bet it ends up
startling all my partners and they don't even grab the wrist...or parry it,
or....
I am going to keep it in mind, in this particular instance about wrist grabs,
because I really agree with it. I will try to keep that in mind when I start
training again, as soon as I feel recovered enough from my operation.
So I will see how it goes...I just think it is going to cause some
consternation, even though I really believe it is the right way to train.
Thanks for all the advice!
Jim
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 01:20:00 -0500
From: Josh Loh
Subject: Paths up the mountain, and that
Hi, everybody:
Um, I have a question: I've been reading a lot since joining this list about
different styles of aikido: Ki Society, Aikikai, Yoshinkan, Tomiki, and the
like. Even (especially?) within the Aikikai, there seem to be differences
between students of, say, Yamada Sensei vs. Kanai Sensei that I'm only beginning
to be dimly aware of, through the mists.
Everything sounds so interesting. So here's my question, as a newly-minted 5th
kyu, I probably won't gain much benefit from hopping from dojo to dojo, even
presuming I could. But should the opportunity arise, is there an optimum time in
one's (presumed!) progression when one should seek out new life and new non-hombu-affiliates,
so to speak? Is there a bad time?
Of course, this is all presuming that I don't fall down and break myself next
week, but I thought I'd ask.
Thanks,
Josh Loh
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 06:47:54 -0500
From: Blake Moorcroft
Subject: Re: Paths up the mountain, and that
On 30 Mar 2002 at 1:20, Josh Loh wrote:
> Everything sounds so interesting. So here's my question, as a
> newly-minted 5th kyu, I probably won't gain much benefit from hopping
> from dojo to dojo, even presuming I could. But should the opportunity
> arise, is there an optimum time in one's (presumed!) progression when
> one should seek out new life and new non-hombu-affiliates, so to
> speak? Is there a bad time?
There's two ways I can read this so I'll offer an opinion on both views...
i) if you're just wanting to visit and pick up stuff from other groups, then I'd
do it as soon as I showed up at a place that had another dojo...:)...assuming
they were amenable to visitors, it's always a good time to learn something.
ii) if you're looking to make a break from one group to another, then I'd do it
when I figured that I wasn't getting anything from that training (both as a
student and an instructor)...that's not a quick decision so when you come to
that stage, it's probably a big to-do.
More later
Blake Moorcroft (Sei Bu)
---------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:12:59 -0800
From: Janet Rosen
Subject: Re: Paths up the mountain, and that
Josh Loh wrote:
> Everything sounds so interesting. So here's my question, as a newly-minted
> 5th kyu, I probably won't gain much benefit from hopping from dojo to dojo,
> even presuming I could. But should the opportunity arise, is there an
> optimum time in one's (presumed!) progression when one should seek out new
> life and new non-hombu-affiliates, so to speak? Is there a bad time?
Hi, Josh. I generally feel that I don't have enough training time at "my" dojo,
so don't tend to dojohop in my local areas except for seminars or visiting
friends. But what I have done since I was a no-kyu is use travel as an
opportunity to play with different flavors of aikido. Especially with the
list--if I'm visiting another area and there is a listka training there, that
gives me a "connection" that I won't necessarily have with a dojo formally
affiliated with where I train.
janet
---------------------------------------------------
Last updated on 13 Sep 2002