******************HOBBIT**************************************
Session Start: Thu Sep 11 00:16:46 1997
*** Now talking in #TheWizardsWay
*** hobbit (~wavedata@mountain.magna.com.au) has joined
hi
Hey there!
Perhaps u noticed the Topic in Ancients ... I am to
give a talk tomorrow evening (CST)
What will your talk be about?
The elements of nature
Sounds interesting, may I have a preview?
or would u rather I discuss?
How about our relation to the ancient elements of nature
What's that?
Of course, hobbit was just talking about earth,
water, air and fire.
hello hobbit nice to meet you
Where were we .... OK .... the problem that the
ancients had was their cosmology ... it was geocentric
hi shane
u understand "geocentric"?
not actually
it means - shane - that they thought thew earth was at
the very center of the cosmos
aha
no the center of the cosmos is the crystal city of light
That all thinks - sun, planets, star, etc ... all
revolved about the earth
this was found NOT to be true - but only a few
centuries ago
I am Christian is that bad?
no - tis OK :)
What has this to do with the elements of nature you may
ask?
All spiritual paths are "ok"
Well ....
<^alex^> ;)
no not all graymind I got on a bad path can't get off
Oh?
<^alex^> shane we've discussed this before...it is your choice...
Well, perhaps you may learn something tonight that
may help.
The element WATER - is naturally occurring and all know
this
yeah I am/and/or was messing with stuff I shouldn't have
tread where I treaded
So is the element AIR
Are other elements not natural?
yes but fire is unnatural
EARTH is everthing here in the terrestrial environment
other than water and air .....
very unnatural
this leaves (thanks Shane:) - the FIRE
<^alex^> fire is natural...because it naturally occurs...by
nature creating it...
Now in ancient times, fire was things like the forrest
fire, the campfire, etc
no alex not the fire we are talking of is unnatural
but it was also the light of the sun and the moon
cept the white fire
however- as i have already explained - the ancients had
a geocentric cosmology (all except a few)
no alex not the fire we are talking of is unnatural
hugs hobbit
<^alex^> hobbit would you explain what you mean by geocentric?
hobbit I have a question, can things be changed?
I'm interested to learn your different definitions
for natural & unnatural fire.
yes shane
of course
good
sorry about delays - I am at work at the moment
Back 2 it then ....
that's okay hobbit
FIRE
There is terrestrial fire and there is the cosmic fire
Question for you ...
I saw it hobbit weird sparkly fire like that off a
grinding stone all around us
Do you understand the difference between the
terrestrial and the cosmic environments?
yes hobbit
tell me then
cosmic aka space is like water things are different many
planes
<^alex^> terrestrial would be those that are more material in
nature...the cosmic would be more of the etheral realms...
* hobbit congratulates shane and alex - essentially correct
terrestrial space like humans think, earth also physical
part
but simpler ...
we can say the following
nature...the cosmic would be more of the etheral realms...
the sky is the cosmic
simple
Above/below
the ancients separated .... the land and the sky
right hobbit also dreams are cosmic, and physical is
terrestrial
<^alex^> spirit/physical
then it bacame the earth and the heaven
and now 0 according to ecological science - the
terrestrial and the cosmic environments
yes alex - you have gone ahead
let us first keep to the specification of the "Outer
Nature"
<^alex^> hehehehe...sorta familiar territory...
okay
in the world upon which we live we have the terrestrial
environmnet - the land, oceans, atmosphere, etc
above this is the cosmic environs - space (The final
frontier :)
Now what is the essential element of life in this outer
world and where does it come from????
hobbit light
correct!!
SUNSHINE
hobbit crystal city aka God
SUNSHINE is the cosmis fire
cosmic fire even
hmmm okay
Shane: Again u go ahead - we first look at the outer
world, then the inner world
So ...
The elements of nature are the same as they were in
ancient days but
we now know they have a different
cosmology - for the FIRE is at the center
The sun - or the solar system - is that about which the
terresteirtal environment orbits
So ...
Also .... the sunshine is the ecological source of
energy
<^alex^> hmm...I'd have to disagree to a slight degree...
alex?
what is the black fire then?
u tell me :)
I don't know but it hurts
<^alex^> I feel that source of beginning is that which is pure
energy and we call that energy love...god...etc...
OK sure ...
This I can appreciate
however I am only (first) examining the OUTER WORLD
The INNER WORLD will be discussed 2nd
okay
We must start somewhere and develop this
<^alex^> the outer world is energy which is vibrating at a lower
resonance...
hobbit are we all lightbeings whom helped make the
cosmos with our feet?
I have chosen to start from the OUTER
<^alex^> therefore that which is "physical"...
in time we will know shane
alex: Yes - physical as in the subject matter of the
sciences
hobbit okay I remember some before here, but not much
Howevee the nature of LIGHT or SUNSHINE or EMR is still
perplexing to science
True
Is LIGHT a wave or a particle, etc
energy a force same as sound
There the edges of "physical" break down
<^alex^> it is the absence of dark...
can use light to make ships go lightspeed it is a simple
process
Yes - indeed - the cosmos is an ocean of light
To now summarise .....
The elements of nature are as follows .....
EARTH, WATER and AIR are the elements found in the
terrestrial environment
FIRE too is found in the terrestrial environment, for
sunhsine permeates the entire earth, however it is SOURCED
from the cosmic enbvironment
This "structure"according to environments must be
recalled again
<^alex^> and without which it would die and become barren...
when we look at the INNER environments
is throughly confused now
yes alex - the sun is the source of light and heat -
and without it the water cycles would cease, the winds would
cease, the planets would not graow and all things would perish
plants
is that why heaven is returning to the earth hobbit?
heaven was never separated from earth shane .....
have you not heard the saying .....
Sunshine on earth
yes
but I saw the crystal city land in a vision I had
sunshine = starshine = the nature of the greater
universe
a spaceship big, but bigger inside than out and
everything that was, was indie of it
I mean inside of it sorry
perhaps u see the nature of the inner world ...
Will I relate how the above can be seen to also
describe the INNER WORLD?
hmmm
<^alex^> sure...
We have our senses ......
sure go for it
<^alex^> the microcosm
Our senses stand at the interface/boundary between the
inner and the outer
TOUCH
TOUCH is based on earth
okay
internally the Inner touch is the need for FOOD and is
expressed as HUNGER
all living beings have this need
okay
it is ancient
TASTE ....
TASTE is based on water.
internally the Inner taste is the need for WATER and is
expressed as THIRST
Is hunger a need for physical food, or the energies
within the substance?
it is probably the latter watcher .....
<^alex^> remember...you are what you eat!
One cannot live without either water or food(EARTH)
for too long
precisely alex
SMELL ...
AIR is required - internally this is the breath of life
These 3 senses - and their inner expressions - are the
terrestrial aspects of life
The elements EARTH, WATER and AIR are thus very much
the elements of life and of survival
So were does FIRE fit in?????
Anyone?
?
<^alex^> yes...and to draw the analogy within the spiritual
realm...
:)
ok
<^alex^> Fire is that which fuels it all...it the sustenance of
life...it is the energy...
yes - alex
<^alex^> behind that which is all..
FIRE is concsciousness
The flame of consciousness
<^alex^> yes...
* Watcher likes that comparison.
<^alex^> you have said touch...the basic self...
Consciousness is thus not a terrestrially sourced thing
- it is a cosmic thing
There are a further 2 senses of man ....
HEARING
Hearing is based on vibration
The ear inclineth :)
The INNER need to generate sound is known as forming
WORDS and SPEACH
At the other end of this vibrartory spectrum is the
sense of SIGHT
SIGHT is based on light
Light and heat/sound are the higher and lower aspects
of fire
Thus the elements of nature are in the INNER nd the
OUTER environments of life
<^alex^> I also think that hearing and sight are the only ones
that truly blend the two environments as well...
So, when we see, we are seeing consciousness.
Inn the FIRE of hearing and sight (WORDS and ACTIONS)
is the nature of our consciousness
<^alex^> it is thru these senses that we use most to interpret
our perceptions...inner and outer...into the conscious mind...
<^alex^> and from the conscious mind
* hobbit must go
<^alex^> Water in many philosophies also tends to represent the
unconscious...that which is always flowing and that which can
alter the course and shape of nature...
<^alex^> we often compare things to water because of this...the
flow of life...the flow of events...
<^alex^> awww...must you?
At work and now have a problem
will be back in 10 mins or so
<^alex^> gees...ok...I'm trully enjoying this!
* hobbit AFK
* Watcher thinks, come back soon hobbit.
********************************************
Anyway, I had just about completed the notes on the
elements of nature
Expept to say that "nature" is a continuum which
extends from the outer world to the inner world (and vice
verse)
<^alex^> did you mean self-aware?
yep- self-aware :)
so what we can share is how we arrived at the
godconsciousness, it is like a map. The problem is, though it
leads to the same place - each person must start from a
different location.
imho, a enlightened one can "push" a devotee into
it, but then the devotee becomes as he/she was before
<^alex^> and what exactly is maya...never had that one
explained...
Graymind: Very apt .... we are at different localities
in the environment and the journey is different for each
living being and each person
One teaching might be very appropriate for one but
entirely inappropriate for another
Anyway folks ---- I must go now ..... bound to catch up
with each of you again somewhere down the track :)
bye-namaste
Hobbit, I am so glad I ran into you.
(
geocities.com/athens/acropolis) (
geocities.com/athens)