By Julie (---)
(03/21/98)
I'm still praying about this one. I tend to agree with what you are saying here, but then I wonder who exactly is Jesus talking about when he tells the Laodiceans he will spit them out of his mouth? I'm not talking about losing salvation. I used to think that the Laodiceans were people who profess to be Christians but aren't truly saved, but would Jesus call them a church if they weren't saved? Jesus promises the Philadelphian church that he will keep them from the hour of trial but he tells the Laodiceans that he is about to spit them out of his mouth. Like I said, I'm still praying for understanding on this one. I'd love nothing more than if someone could really convince me that the whole church is going to be raptured pre-trib but right now I am not decided either way. It doesn't affect salvation so maybe it's something we won't know for sure until it happens. But if you have some insight on this, I'd love to hear it. Thanks and God bless.
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3/23/98
Greetings Brethren,

I don’t know how much you know concerning the 7 Churches, but these are Types or Representatives of the future Church Ages down to the Last Age which is Laodicea. The Laodicean church age began in 1906 when the Azusa street Revival hit California and it goes into the Tribulation.

Here’s the picture and then you can go to the Scriptures to see if these things are true or not. The End of the Gentile Church Age, is a repeat of  the End of the Jewish Age. The same things repeat, and then this Time the Gospel goes back to the Jews. They are grafted back in, and instead of lasting 2000 years to redeem those who are to be redeemed, it happens all at once. 144,000 Jews receive Redemption.

What was the condition of the Jews when Christ came the first Time? What did the Scriptures say would be their condition?

Acts 28:25-28 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the Heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Now compare that with the Condition of the Gentile Church, what does it say they would be like?

Rev 3:14-17 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will Spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

You see, both are Blind to the Word of God being fulfilled in their mist. They both reject the Messiah, and so the Messiah cuts them off ( Spits them out of His Mouth ) to Graft the Other in. It has to be this way for it is Written this way. But even as their was a Remnant of Jews that would believe, there shall be a Remnant out of the Nations that shall believe.

They are called a “Church” because they say they are the Bride of Christ. If you read the other Church Ages you will see both the Real Christians and the False Christians spoken of as the One Church. You will also see Jesus Speak to both, condemning the false ones, and uplifting the True ones. But in the Last age Laodicea, their is no mention of any Real Christians serving God, only of the False Christians. Therefore they are Spit out or cut off the Good Branch that the Jewish Branch could be Grafted back in. The Exact same thing that happened to the Jews. And that is were we are at. He that has ears to hear, Hear.

I go into this in greater detail on my web site if you would like to read it.

Paul
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By skinner
(03/23/98)
Apostle Paul....That is the best explanation I have heard. I enjoyed that very much. I printed it our to send to a friend in Ohio. I am taking it to mean that the Laodicea church is the Apostate (harlot) church. Right?
Thanks....Skinner
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3/24/98
Greetings Brethren,

Skinner you asked this question,
I am taking it to mean that the Laodicea church is the Apostate (harlot) church. Right?

Response: Yes, Laodicea is the Apostate church, the last church age which is blinded even as those Jews was blinded. The Jews would have received the Messiah if God would have not blinded them. But in His Wisdom He blinded them to the Gospel that He could take a Bride out of the Nations. Israel is His Servant/Son that is to be Redeemed after the Fullness of the Gentiles, or all the people that make up that Bride are Redeemed.

Then the Gentiles are blinded as it is written, and He goes back to the Jews. Not all that are in Israel shall be saved, not all the Jews, only those 144,000 Jews that are Elected. There won’t be 144,001, even though you may have a Million Jews standing there saying that they are saved. And of course that applies to the Gentiles that say they are Bride, but there is only x amount Elected to be part of that Bride. And you see in this Laodicean age that there is Many that say they are Bride, the Foolish Virgins, but it shall turn out that they have not the Spirit of God.

But there shall be a Great Multitude that shall be saved out of the Nations during the Tribulation who are Elected to be saints. I believe these Tribulation Saints will be the ones that heed the Message that those Two Prophets proclaim. The rest of the so called church, ( Laodicea) will not believe the Truth of the Word, but will believe the Lie of the False Prophet, the Pope. Are not Most All the churches which combined are indeed Laodicea, United in Fellowship with the Roman Catholic Church? And one time the church knew this Church System was evil, but now, its “we are all brothers and sisters, we all believe in Jesus don’t we, lets unite and be one, and but aside our Doctrinal differences! This was started by the Pope and it is nothing more than Balaam once again Deceiving the people.

And this False Prophet will speak Against those Two Prophets and what they are Preaching, and then kill, (which is nothing new for the Roman Catholic Church) all those who go against what the Pope, the False Prophet, the Anti-Christ Proclaims. I know most Christians don’t believe that, they are all looking for some other False Prophet,  Anti-christ, or Beast, and unless God opens their eyes they will also believe his Lie about what is going on in the world. They ( the churches) will also say these Two Men are False Prophets, and will Hate them because of all the Plagues that they are bring on the Earth! And therefore they will hate anyone who is sided with this “Cult” as they will call it.

Tell me, who is the Most Powerful man in the World ? The Pope! Who do All the Nations go to if they have a problem, and need a way out? The Pope! The UN is empowered by the Forces of the USA, but it is Run by the Pope ! Look and see if they don’t always go to Rome, for approval of major decisions. Who brought down the Russian Empire? The Pope and the USA! And Right Now The Pope of Rome Rules the Earth! And here soon all the peoples of the Earth are going to know that.

But God is going to Destroy this Great Harlot, and all that League up with her. And that is those that take Her mark in their Forehead,( believe her doctrines) or support this system with their Right Hand, (money, military, anything strengthening the Power of this Beast. ) Amen

Paul
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By Randall (---)
(03/24/98)
Hi "Apostle Paul",
You see, both are Blind to the Word of God being fulfilled in their mist. ***They both reject the Messiah***, and so the Messiah cuts them off ( Spits them out of His Mouth ) to Graft the Other in. It has to be this way for it is Written this way.

I will not do an injustice to your thesis without having had the time to study it all properly. But can you help start with the basics?

1. Does not a church, by definition, have believers in Jesus Christ in it? If so, why do you say that the Laodicians have rejected the Messiah completely? It seems to me that what God has against them is that thay are believers who are "neither hot nor cold" - they are "LUKEWARM" ie. they remain OF the world. That creates a problem for Him - because he says "I wish you were either one or the other - cold or hot" (v15). Seems to me He is giving them a warning to "buy the gold refined in the fire" before it is too late. Just as the foolish virgins realised too late they needed to "buy" more oil. Seems to me that what He wants them to buy is the Holy Spirit. He can't reject them - they are not COLD unbelievers; they are still covered by His covenant. And neither are they HOT - filled with the Holy Spirit. So He can't Rapture them yet, but has to spit them out of His mouth [ie. be delivered into the tribulation] to be refined by the fire. Oh, foolish virgins! Is this more literal approach too simplistic an interpretation?

2. Does this dispensational interpretation of the church ages mean that every Christian since Azusa Street in 1906 is LUKEWARM, and thus only deserves to be spued up?

Yours in Christ,
Randall.
============

3/24/98
Greetings Brethren,

Randall, I appreciate your approach in dealing with these questions. For If I am wrong about anything I believe, only by the Word could this be shown, as it is the Authority, not the personal opinion of a man. And it also would be the only way I would ever change my mind on a Doctrine. Its also refreshing not to be yelled at.

Now for your Questions.
1. Does not a church, by definition, have believers in Jesus Christ in it? If so, why do you say that the Laodicians have rejected the Messiah completely? It seems to me that what God has against them is that thay are believers who are "neither hot nor cold" - they are "LUKEWARM" ie. they remain OF the world.

I think the word or concept we are dealing with and perhaps why we see this differently is that whither or not the Christians in the Laodicean church are “Believers” or not. My, My, MY, if I don’t answer this carefully I really will be yelled at.Thannnks. OK here we go.

First off there is always 3 kinds of Believers in every age. Examples:
1- a Real believer, (Apostle Peter).
2- a Make believer, ( Judas )
3- a Unbeliever ( Pharisees, just pick one of those Priests).

The “make believer” is a hypocrite who acts like a he believes the gospel but really doesn’t. The “Unbeliever” of course doesn’t believe that the Gospel being Preached is true, even though they may be very religious. And the “Real believer” has a Revelation given to them from God that the Gospel being preached is True. For faith is a “Revelation” given to a person to Understand in Truth what is being Preached. That Faith makes the Real believer, that is the Real Bride. For you cannot even Really know Who Jesus is unless The Spirit Reveals it to you. So Who gives these Revelations that brings forth the Light of that Word Preached ? Why the Holy Spirit of Course. For it is Written, ( 1Co. 2: 9-11; Matt 16: 15-17; John 12: 46-48 )

Now what was the reason that the Jews were cut off from the Good Olive Tree? Unbelief ! (Rom. 11: 16-21) They could not believe the Gospel because they was Blind, they thought they was clothed in righteousness but they was Naked !

Now what was the Condition of Laodicea? Wretched, Miserable, Poor ( Spiritually), Blind, and Naked ( they think they are clothed in Christ’s Righteousness). So the Laodicean Church is a UnBeliving bunch, Just like those Religious Jews were. Why are the Gentiles cut off that the Jews may Grafted back in? Unbelief ! ( Rom 11: 22-26) Why did the Unwise Virgins go into the Tribulation? They had No Oil, they Didn’t have the Holy Spirit to give them the Revelation of the Word !( Matt: 25: 3,4 ) That is why they was not Wise. And that is also why Jesus said He didn’t even Know them, They was Never part of Him, by His Spirit, they were not part of His Body. ( Matt. 25: 11,12 ; Rom 8: 1-9 )

Therefore they was Unbelievers, not Believers. For the True Believers, the Bride, the Body of Christ, go into the Marriage Feast, the Rapture, those that had the Spirit of God. For they are not to be Judged, there is to be no Tribulation for purification Poured out from God upon them. Jesus Has Already took those Judgments On Himself, On the Cross!

You said,
He can't reject them - they are not COLD unbelievers; they are still covered by His covenant. And neither are they HOT - filled with the Holy Spirit. So He can't Rapture them yet, but has to spit them out of His mouth [ie. be delivered into the tribulation] to be refined by the fire. Oh, foolish virgins!

I wish it wasn’t so, because we live in this generation that these things are happening to. But, The Lord “Cuts off” that Wild Olive Branch, “Spits Out” that Luke Warm Church, and says that He “didn’t even Know them”. Why? Because of their Unbelief. Jesus stands at the Door of these churches Knocking but they won’t open up to let the Word in, and He is The Word! For they really don’t believe the Word, even though they are Religious, even called Virgins, but they call themselves the Bride of Christ, the Lord Don’t. You sort of feel like Paul did when he looked around at his brethren the Jewish Church, and seen the condition that they were in. (Rom 10:1-4 )

But praise the Lord I know that their shall be a Multitude of Believers out of all the Nations that shall call upon the Name of the Lord. And He shall open their Eyes and give them Understanding to stand fast and be strong, as God pours His Wrath out open the Beast. ( Rev 7: 9-17; 14: 9-13; 21: 22-27 )

And Randall your last Question,
2. Does this dispensational interpretation of the church ages mean that every Christian since Azusa Street in 1906 is LUKEWARM, and thus only deserves to be spued up?

Certainly Not! There will not be One Christian who is a Believer Spit out. Listen, I didn’t write the Scriptures, I’m only Quoting from them. And Truthfully I wish I could find a better answer, have a better response to these things, than this. I wish I could say all the Christians in the different churches are going to be Raptured out of here soon, that there would be Millions go. That would be wonderful! But the Word says it shall be like unto the days on Noah wherein 8 souls were saved out of Billions. And 7 of those were only saved because they were with Noah, for he was Righteous before God, not his family. And then it speaks of the days of Lot, where 4 were saved form the Judgment. And they had to be Dragged out of the City! And then his wife just had to look back at what she was leaving and was turned into a pillar of salt. (Luke 17: 26-30) And if you want to even get more Scriptural, Noah and his family Represented the tribulation Saints, that go through God’s judgment, and Enoch Represented the Rapture group, because he walked with the Lord and “was not”for the Lord took him. Just One man out of the whole earth! Lot and his family also Represented the Tribulation Saints who went through God’s judgment, but we see Abraham that Elected Seed that prayed for Lots Life, eating Dinner with God All Mighty , away from all the destruction.

What a “Supper” that must have been. So there will be very, very, few people go in that Rapture. The world and the Church won’t even know it happened. Things shall go on a usual, and then all of a sudden without warning, the Judgments shall strike the earth. ( 1Thess 5: 1-3; Isa 13:6-11 )

So please prepare yourself, for the Day of the Lord is at hand!

Paul

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By randall (---)
(03/25/98)

Randall, I appreciate your approach in dealing with these questions.

That was gracious of you, especially considering the tough run I gave you on your unwitting masonic run in. "No worries mate", as they say where I come from - if you can can guess where that is. I responded to your part 2 first, so have run out of time now (yawn) to go into a fuller response on part 1.

May I just tease you with a couple of things regarding the Laodiceans? 1. You have to be IN the mouth of Christ in the first place, in the head of his Body, to be spewed out of it.

2. This forum has sharpened me up recently! It happened to motivate me over the last few days to read a systematic theology text chapter on "The Perseverance of the Saints" (I chose Wayne Grudem's, 1994). Which by chance(??) just happens to be most relevant to this topic. Check out Matt 7:21-23. That is your "make-believer" category methinks (good name by the way) - including Judas. Jesus declares "I NEVER KNEW YOU". They are dead, stony Cold. Whereas He says about his Laodiceans "I KNOW YOUR DEEDS" Rev 3:15. Lukewarm. They are quite different.

I believe from that Mathew passage that your "make-believers" never made it into the church at all, as they were never born again by genuine faith. Like Judas. (The systematic theology text does a better job on it than me... more later). Until we meet again for the next round here - or perhaps we'll be able to discuss it raptured in Heaven instead, the Lord being willing, which will be much more definitive then!

Yours in Christ,
Randall
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By randall (---)
(03/25/98)
Certainly Not!
Thats a relief.
Listen, I didn’t write the Scriptures, I’m only Quoting from them. And Truthfully I wish I could find a better answer, have a better response to these things, than this. I wish I could say all the Christians in the different churches are going to be Raptured out of here soon, that there would be Millions go. That would be wonderful!

Well, I think the Lord may have some Good News for you tonight, my friend.

But the Word says it shall be like unto the days on Noah wherein 8 souls were saved out of Billions. And 7 of those were only saved because they were with Noah, for he was Righteous before God, not his family. And then it speaks of the days of Lot, where 4 were saved form the Judgment. And they had to be Dragged out of the City! And then his wife just had to look back at what she was leaving and was turned into a pillar of salt. (Luke 17: 26-30) And if you want to even get more Scriptural, Noah and his family Represented the tribulation Saints, that go through God’s judgment, and Enoch Represented the Rapture group, because he walked with the Lord and “was not”for the Lord took him. Just One man out of the whole earth! Lot and his family also Represented the Tribulation Saints who went through God’s judgment, but we see Abraham that Elected Seed that prayed for Lots Life, eating Dinner with God All Mighty, away from all the destruction. What a “Supper” that must have been.

But don't you think that there might be just one teensy little difference between those occasions and now? The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Of course, I do not have to remind you that by His sinless death the Lamb sanctified us by genuine faith. By which we undeserving, unholy, morons are born again. A clean bill of health. Even the seed of the Holy Spirit is planted in us.

But you're right about one thing. It is indeed impossible to be righteous under our own steam, so its just as well we've got Him to care for us, or heaven would be a very lonely place! Fortunately for us, for some unfathomable reason, He chose us to be born, then born again, in this age of Grace. Even your "Real Believer", the apostle Peter, denied Jesus three times. Not to mention all the other impetuous, and stupid things he did along the way.

One of the most inspiring things I ever read was a list of just some the sins of the Disciples in David Pytches beautiful little book "Come Holy Spirit". These include being: Ambitious, Argumentative, Cowardly, Critical, Deceived, Deserters, Doubtful, Dull, Faithless, Greedy, Prayerless, Revengeful, Unforgiving and Unloving. They even abandoned Him in His hour of greatest need in the Garden of Gethsemane. Does this mob of disciples sound like they were genetically bred to be super-holy? Actually, they sound more like ordinary, everyday sinners like me - yet Paul addresses Christians as "saints" Did Jesus spue these sinning Disciples out of His mouth? Did he set intolerably high standards they couldn't fulfil with the help of the Holy Spirit? Of course, the same Jesus is alive and with us watching over this discussion right now - the same yesterday, today and forever.

Neither will he spue those who draw close to Him, get thoroughly wet by jumping into His river of the Holy Spirit, clean up our act, and do our bit for the Kingdom. Never perfect of course - and neither did He expect that, or He wouldn't have had to stoop to be incarnated and tortured to the death. Our confession, repentance and His forgiveness is enough.

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive our sins, and to  cleanse us from all unrightousness".

If we are sinless, we are wearing a white wedding  garment and will be chosen as part of the Bride of Christ. And be raptured and escape the tribulation!!!!
(continued... next note)
============

By randall (---)
(03/25/98)
(....continued)
So there will be very, very, few people go in that Rapture. The world and the Church won’t even know it happened. Things shall go on a usual, and then all of a sudden without warning, the Judgments shall strike the earth. ( 1Thess 5: 1-3 Isa 13:6-11 ).

With respect, I believe that this theology results from taking the darkest and gloomiest approach to reading the seven churches as sequential ages of the Church, in a dispensational way, ending up with the Laodiceans. Where does scripture say it HAS to be read exactly that way? Your life will fill with joy if (and when - I am an optimist praying for you), you do ultimately become convinced - as I and many others have that at least some of these churches exist concurrently.

The Philadelphian and the Laodiceans at the least are both around at the first rapture - the wise and foolish virgins. One escapes the Tribulation, but the other has to be further refined for a while longer yet. We believe there will be lots of company in the rapture - countless "multitudes" in fact! I've run out of time tonight to quote all the scriptures that support this.

Please stay open minded until I get a chance to discuss your Part 1 note. In the interim, you can find many of the scriptural arguments for this at Marilyn Agee's web site, starting with http://www.kiwi.net/~mjagee/virg.html

So please prepare yourself, for the Day of the Lord is at hand!

I agree. Very soon. Draw close to God. Stay filled with the Spirit. Confess and repent of sin. Live in the world, as we are called according to His purpose, but be not of it - at least the best that we can. And then, we pray, by His Grace, "WE WILL BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass [during the tribulation] and to stand before the Son of man." [Jesus Christ, in Heaven after the first Rapture].

Sounds like a covenant promise to me. Being one of the Philadelphian church and a wise virgin is not a near-impossible standard if we feed on His word and let His Holy Spirit guide us. Ours is a loving and merciful God who is not a legalist to those who love and live by his Son's forgiveness. He wants to gather up as many as His children as he possibly can from this Age. After all, thats what he created the Universe for in the first place.

Yours in Christ,
Randall.
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By randall (---)
(03/27/98)

I'm heading right out the door for a retreat with my church this weekend. So I've printed out your thoughts and look forward to reading them later.

Just one comment quickly though from one your paragraphs:

Why did the Unwise Virgins go into the Tribulation? They had *** No Oil****, but they didn’t have the Holy Spirit to give them the Revelation of the Word !( Matt: 25: 3,4 )

Ah, my friend! But The foolish virgins still had enough oil to light their lamp. They just didn't have enough spare in their vessel to last the distance. ie. they were believers, but had not cleaned themselves up enough and carried forward their Christian growth to be fully infilled by the spirit. (I had the ten virgins parable dogging me for years until the Holy Spirit lit me up on it, so that is one I have come to know every word of). Perhaps this makes a difference? (you use a lot of capitals in your writing I notice) .

Yours in Christ,
Randall.
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Response to your website epistle - pt 1

By randall (---)
(03/31/98)
Hi Paul,
Spent the weekend at a retreat and the last couple of days away at a business conference. Took the opportunity to go through your website thesis. Here is a SUMMARY reply. I hope you will continue the couresy of a response.... I was awaiting something on "The difference JC makes".

First. I know that you do have the love (and fear) of the Lord and His Word in your heart. And that your motivation is pure and genuine. As we've already discussed, I make the constructive suggestion that your theology might be better communicated without some of the distractions.... the unfortunate Apostle pseudonym, Capitalised writing, pyramids as a "second bible" etc. I did indeed find your thoughts on the Great Pyramid interesting and inspiring; that is one I'll be interested to find out about when I get to heaven! Ditto Star of David. But since Jesus or the Bible has never validated that, I respectfully suggest it is something of a distraction and adds nothing to your theological proposition - which should work from the Word. Now, on to the mainstream.

1. LAODICEANS. Your thesis is founded upon your dark definition of the Laodicean church, and it as the last church age. I can indeed see how the rest of your logic builds from that. So may we consider that again?

1.1 In our prior discussion you emphasised that Jesus "doesn't know" the Laodiceans (in your Two Branches Pt 1), to prove that they are unbelievers; supposedly like the unbelieving foolish virgins of Mt 25. quote - "They were never part of Him, by His Spirit, they were not part of His body" (your analysis of Matt 25:11,12). Lets check this verse out carefully. "Afterward came also the other virgins [ie. the foolish ones] saying Lord, Lord open to us. But he answered and said, verily I say unto you I KNOW YOU NOT.

"I know you not" is present tense. ie. HE KNEW THEM ONCE, BUT HE DOESN'T KNOW THEM NOW. These are the LUKEWARM Laodiceans who get spewed.

Now contrast Matt 7:21-23 "And then I will profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I NEVER KNEW YOU. These are the COLD unbelievers. There is a significant difference between I KNOW YOU NOT and I NEVER KNEW YOU. (Wayne Grudem has a good discussion on these distinctions using these verses in his Systematic Theology text [1994]. p795 (Zondervan) The parable of the sower in Mark 4 makes the same distinctions).

1.2 You have to be in the Body to get spewed. I was not trying to trick. This is a fact.

1.3 A church by definition has to have believers in it, whether warped or not.

1.4 Loadicea is not the last Church Age. Yes, I know that this sequential prophetic interpretation has been around for at least a couple of centuries. But what scriptural justification is there for that? Your contention is that the "previous" age (pre Azusa/1900) were the blessed Philadelphian. On what historical basis can anyone say that pre-1900 Christians were the good guy Philadelphians, and post-1900 are the bad guy Laodiceans? By one estimate there are now something like 350 million charismatic Christians infilled with the Spirit, many speaking in tongues (PS. I am not saying only charismatics are infilled, but it is one indicator of a strong respect for the Holy Spirit as a Person of God). Revival is going around like wild-fire. How can it be suggested that these Christians are Lukewarm and will be vomited out by God, in violation of His covenant that we are regularly washed by the blood of Jesus? Jesus saves through faith, not doctrine (apostasy excepted). For example, the thief saved at the Cross was not spewed out of God's mouth; although I have reason too suspect that he didn't have a theology degree...

No. Infilled believers can only be the Philadelphians, to whom He promises "I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who love on the earth." [ie. the pre-trib first rapture.] And there are going to be lots and lots. In conclusion, this takes us back to the wise and foolish virgins - the Philadelphians and the Laodiceans.
============

(continued...Part 2)

By randall (---)
(03/31/98)
(continued from Part 1)
2. The great multitude of Rev 7:9-14.
These are those raptured mid-tribulation before the seventh judgment seal is opened, who now join the pre-tribbers. The first rapture and the witness of the 2 jews and 144,000 bring lots to Christ. There are heaps of scriptures on this one, but I am not going to repeat Marilyn Agee's website. (PS. I'm not sure whether these include the Laodiceans He vomited out of His mouth. God has always given mercy in the Church Age to backsliders who genuinely return and repent by the blood of Jesus, but I'm not certain He carries this into the tribulation. Still meditating on this one.....)

3. The Seven Branched Candlestick (representing the "seven ages oof the church"). Aren't candles all lit together, and then burn together? Thats another of the reasons I dont think the seven churches are all sequential.

4. Regrafted Olive Tree. Well, I thank you for inspiring me to come to grips with Roman 11 on the Remnant Israel and Gentiles. I had a most enjoyable time studying this whole chapter; Mathew Henry's commentary rally went to town on this chapter and I loved ever minute of it. I'm afraid I must differ again on your doom and gloom, black and white diagnosis of the branches. Broken branches can grow back or be regrafted at any time. In any case, the purpose of Romans 11 is to show that God did not reject His people - "by no means!" (v1).

v23 "AND IF THEY DO NOT PERSIST IN UNBELIEF, THEY WILL BE GRAFTED IN, BECAUSE GOD IS ABLE TOO GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN."

This happens all the time - ****all the Messianic Jews in the world right now are already grafted back in by their change to BELIEF in Jesus Christ***. They do not have to wait until the Tribulation to be regrafted! (You can talk to them and verify this for yourself in the pre-Trib rapture, probably pretty soon, if you are a wise virgin!)

5. William Branham. I have not read any of his stuff. But lets just take the one you quote:

"These last days. True Church Bride comes to the Headstone, will be the Super Church, a Super Race. As they near the Great Headstone they will be so much like Him, even they will be in His very image in order too be united with Him. They will be the very manifestation of the Word of the living God. Denominations can never produce this. They will produce their creeds and dogmas mixed with the Word and brings a hybrid product".

I resist my temptation to describe my reaction in provocative terms. Are not all forgiven Christians indeed a Super Church, and not by their merir? Most often just ordinary people like tax collectors and fisherman, like the disciples. And you. And me. Come, my friend - you know the scriptures on this. We are saved by faith, not creeds and dogmas. Those below genius level, who just love Jesus for Himself, and don't understand all the nuances of theology, will probably be ahead of we Christian pseudo-intellectuals!!!! The last shall be first. Sort out the Laodiceans and I think you will shake out William Branham at the same time. Everything we need is already in the Word, in the bible.

6. "The Rapture will be secret". I don't believe so. Check out some of the scriptures in Marilyn Agee's pro's and con's. My typing finger is getting sore.

Yours in Christ,
Randall.
============

Greetings Brethren,
Randall you started off with a good question as you asked,

1. You have to be IN the mouth of Christ in the first place, in the head of his Body, to be spewed out of it.

I understand were you are trying to go with this and you are Correct in what you are saying but there is more to be understood. I believe this is in response to this type of statement,

Why did the Unwise Virgins go into the Tribulation? They had No Oil, they Didn’t have the Holy Spirit to give them the Revelation of the Word !( Matt: 25: 3,4 ) That is why they was not Wise. And that is also why Jesus said He didn’t even Know them, They was Never part of Him, by His Spirit, they were not part of His Body. ( Matt. 25: 11,12 ; Rom 8: 1-9 ) Therefore they was Unbelievers, not Believers.

Let me try and draw another picture (Type) by the Scriptures whereby I believe you may see what I’m seeing, or at least understand in a clearer way what Im saying. As there has to be a way to fit ALL the different Scriptures relating to a subject into one Doctrine, without explaining away certain Scriptures. So it has to be a Revelation which will ring true no matter what Scriptures are used.

To me one of the best Pictures ( Type) on this subject is the Good Olive Tree ( Jesus) and the Two Branches, Jews and Gentiles, that have been grafted in to Produce Fruit in due season. That Fruit of course is the Word Written for that particular Branch. Now there came a time when that Jewish branch only produced Unbelief, and because of that it was cut off, and the Gentiles grafted in. ( Rom 11:16-25 )

We know that Jesus is the Good Vine and we seen the First Branch that produced Bride Fruit on the Day of Pentecost. ( John 15:1-8; Acts 2: ) And Jesus said you shall know them by their Fruits. ( Matt 12:33 ) So we know that the True Bride Tree Branch will always produce that kind of Fruit. And of course it is the Fruit of the Spirit, for they are a Manifestation of the Spoken Word in its Due Season.

Now a Citrus tree can have many different types of citrus branches grafted into it. A grapefruit can be grafted into a orange tree. But that grapefruit branch will still produce grapefruits not oranges. When you look at the 7 church ages you will see Two different Branches producing different Fruit. There is the Bride Branch and the Unbelieving church branch. Both are called the Church for they are both grafted into the One Vine Jesus Christ.

Both are drawing their life from the Vine but only One is producing Word Fruit. Only One is really part of the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ, because they Bear His Fruit. The other can speak prophesy, cast out devils, heal the sick, speak in tongues ect...but they are not that Bride Branch. ( Matt 7:21-23) Yet they are grafted into that Vine, they are part of the Vine, that’s why they are called the church (unwise virgins), but they are not Producing that Vines Original Fruit, which only comes through that Bride Branch. ( Matt: 1-13 ) This Parable (Type) can also be understood by reading about the Wheat and the Tares. (Matt 13:24-30, 37-43)

This all began with Cain and Abel. And you can even watch these Two Religious Branches come all the way down through history into our very time! If a person will only look, the Word even separates the Lineage of Cain (Gen 4:16-24; 1Jh 3:10-13), from the Lineage of Adam and his blood line which goes through Seth and ends up with Joseph the supposed father of Jesus. ( Gen 5:1-32; Lk 3:23-38; Jude 14) And the Natural Types the Spiritual! The children of the Devil, and the children of God began in the Garden of Eden, and when they intermixed the world became Corrupt because of this union. ( Gen 6:1-6 ) And the Church has married the World which is of the Devil, and has once again Corrupted the Earth. And because of this Union She also has brought forth mighty religious men which have a Theological explanation for ungodly practices and beliefs. These have also become men of renown. So God is once again going to Destroy all who are not in the Ark of His Word! Repent for the Day of the Lord is at Hand!

( Randall that last part was not directed at you my brother.)

Now we come to the Last Gentile Age which ends the same way the Jewish Age ended.

(Isa 1:2-6; 5:1-7; Rom 11; 2Tim 3:1-9; 4:3,4; 2Pet 2:1-18 Jude 4,8-19; 2Thess 2:3-12; Rev 3:14-17). It is written, so must it be.

That Laodicean church just like that Last Jewish Church only bears Unbelief. Jesus does not speak to the Bride Branch in this Last Age like He did in EVERY other Age. So Where is She at? Where did She Go? To the Marriage Feast! The Rest of the Church went searching for the Holy Spirit and while she was searching the Bride went home. Now do you see why we had the Charismatic Revival which consisted of the Roman Catholic Church and all the other denominations going after the Baptism of the Holy Spirit? And the Word says they don’t get it! (Matt 25:10-13)

So when this age comes to it close that Religious Gentile Branch shall be cut off and the Jewish branch Grafted in to Produce the 144,000 Jews. And Brethren that is were we are at.

Israel is about to Awake!

Paul

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Watchman, what of the night? Watchman, what of the night? The watchman said, The morning cometh, and also the night: if ye will Enquire, enquire ye: return, come.  Isa 21:11,12
Re 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the Faithful Witness, and the First Begotten Of The Dead, and the Prince Of The kings Of The Earth. Unto Him that Loved us, and Washed us from our Sins In HIS OWN BLOOD, Php 2:9-11 God also hath Highly Exalted Him, and Given Him A Name which is Above Every Name: That at the Name OF Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that Every Tongue Should Confess that Jesus Christ IS Lord, to The Glory Of God The Father. Ac 4:11,12 This is the STONE which was set at nought of You Builders, which is become the HEAD OF THE CORNER. Neither is there Salvation in any other: for there is None Other Name under heaven Given Among Men, whereby WE MUST BE SAVED.