Log Societal Group: Feb, 24 1997
Shadrak's Birthday Party and Lesson 6 ChallengesSession Start: Mon Feb 24 20:15:01 1997 *** Now talking in #societal *** ingo (a066@dialup2.lambton.on.ca) has joined #societal (ingo) Hi Anne *** shadrak (irwin@irwin.pacificnet.net) has joined #societal (anne) hi (shadrak) hi folks *** anne sets mode: +o ingo *** anne sets mode: +o shadrak (ingo) Hi the two of you (anne) you sure have been busy writing scripts shadrak [SOUND] *** sal (~xxxx@anxp8.ob.centuryinter.net) has joined #societal *** shadrak sets mode: +o sal (ingo) Hi Sal (sal) happy birthday, shad... (anne) oh it was a long day ingo (anne) yes happy bday shad (shadrak) Younger than Springtime, am I ... (sal) hi, ingo... (ingo) Yea, Happy Birthday (shadrak) Thank you all! (anne) your photos are great shadrak *** Liz (~locuse@customs624.ipass.net) has joined #societal (anne) hi liz (ingo) Hi liz *** anne sets mode: +o Liz (Liz) hi everyone (sal) hi, liz *** shadrak (irwin@irwin.pacificnet.net) has joined #societal (Liz) ok *** ingo sets mode: +o shadrak (shadrak) gonna be one of thos nights! (sal) we've done a little more on infosources...you know anne and i were planning to do something else... (sal) wait a minute... (sal) wish you'd check it for us.. (anne) just at the geocities for right now (shadrak) what have you changed or added? (sal) right... (sal) we added a new section... (sal) that we had been talking about ... (sal) but haven't linked it to the first page yet... (sal) http://www.oocities.org/CapeCanaveral/8382/hbd.html TIME OUT TO CELEBRATE SHADRAK'S BIRTHDAY with the card we made him using all of our HTLM SKILLS Back to Discussion of Challenges *** flamingo (flamingo@hd33-123.compuserv e.com) has joined #societal *** shadrak sets mode: +o flamingo (shadrak) hi flamingo (anne) hi flamingo (sal) hi, cynthia... (flamingo) Hi everyone! (ingo) Hi flamingo (shadrak) nice page hens!!!! *** Tatyana (tatyana@stjhts16c32.nbnet.nb .ca) has joined #societal (anne) i met who on powwow for just a minute *** Tatyana is now known as Tina (flamingo) Hi Tina *** anne sets mode: +o Tina (Tina) hi *** ck (~emeraldCi@ts3-188.pacific.net) has joined #societal *** shadrak sets mode: +o ck (shadrak) hi ck (anne) hi ck (anne) shad is looking at the card now ;) (ck) hi all (Tina) are we gonna add a page for lesson 4 like we did for lesson 3 (Tina) so we can add the stuff we do to it? (e-less) Yes - and we can do tables and Sal can do frame *** ini is now known as ingo (ingo) thanks Anne (ingo) I tried * ck still doesn't know how (sal) hahahaha (anne) tina, this looks more like we have to incorporate it as part of societal page (Tina) icky (anne) right (Tina) and we only have the one week to do it (anne) but, we don't have to keep it ;( (anne) two weeks (Tina) no one week (ck) I wish they gave us a clue on how to make a page look like one with tables (without having tables) (anne) i thought they said every outline is two weeks (Tina) the last 2 weeks will be java, javascript (flamingo) I think it is one week too (Tina) well last week they have an extension to graphics (Tina) we only have 3 weeks left of the course (shadrak) This week appears to be (badly done) JacvaScript (anne) looks like your single pixel dots will come out again for that one chris (ck) Maybe we can take e-less's table page and try to recreate without tables? (e-less) tables - no tables is easy - we almost did it with lesson 3 - before and after Chris fixed it (anne) thank goodness we have you shadrak (anne) except what about the border problem for all browsers ;( (e-less) CK - you took the words right out of my mouth (anne) just make a smaller border and we should be ok (bahrd) hey shad HB again (anne) on my laptop in netscape, it all lined up again so must have higher resolution on it (e-less) Anne's border page! (ck) why doesn't giving the width in pixels work? (shadrak) I'd like to address browser idiosyncracies w/respect to frames (anne) k good shad (shadrak) thanks bahrd (e-less) but Anne - I saw somethin about the offset in different browser - I think that's what the diff was (Tina) my page works on both msie, netscape and with at least 2 resolutions and it's done in tables (anne) well, we need to learn how to show it in both (Tina) I meant my personal page, not the one with this course (anne) right tina (anne) it was fine (anne) you had narrower graphic titles on the left (ck) tina, do you do width in pixels or % (anne) e-less had a lot of words ini the left column (ck) how do you know how many pixels to use for the width? (Tina) I use % because the % takes a % of the total width of resolution where if you use pixel, say you use 400 for a 640 width, when you go to 800 resolution, it'll stay only 400 (Tina) where if you used say 80%, it'll be 80% of whatever the resolution is (e-less) but we douls sort of do the same thing but make it for this lesson - less words this time and I know how to do it both with and without tables arrgh (e-less) douls = could (shadrak) ck, if you're using a border, width ought to be same as border (ck) shad, do know of any idiosyncracies with frames & browsers (ck) Tina, if you use a percent, when a person widens or shrinks their browser, doesn't that change the width of the border column? (ck) shadrak? question is how do I figure out the # pixels in a border? (anne) the border column was wider on my laptop and i had more space on the right too (shadrak) Yep border=no in NS frameborde =no in IE; NS doen't honor (noframe) outside of frameset page (IE does). NS border =no makes resize = no (shadrak) use PSP to see how wide your border is (sal) ????? (ck) oic shad (Tina) ck, I don't know... it hasn't happened to me and i use % (anne) right that is what i was just writing to say to ck, even cut the left part if you need to (ck) Tina, can you give me your URL? (shadrak) If you want, say, an index in the border, you need to make that part of the table consistent with your border width in pixels. (Tina) http://cqws.com/users/zoso/ (anne) but shad, didn't you say stuff bled in NS 3 that did not in NS 4 (anne) one more page we need to do is the timed one somewhere (flamingo) Anne, where does it say that we have to do the Challenges and use them on our pages? (anne) that sounded to me like a splash page (sal) me too, anne... (anne) oh on the frames one, it said we did not have to leave it (anne) it said use it somewhere in your pages (shadrak) That was the non-border part. NS3, NS4 AND MSIE have different rules for table indentation and treat BLOCKQUOTE differently (flamingo) I've never heard of a Push page. (ck) Maybe we could do a sub page for the splash page, like our working page (anne) right (anne) then it comes up to the main index (anne) could we make the photos in different size that yu used on the buttons tina (shadrak) A push page uses some kind of timer. Don't know how it works..proba bly a JAvaScript. (flamingo) Where do we find the Javascript? (ck) Tina, your url doesn't have words in the border..??? (anne) i will send some javascript routines that spidey sent to bracketeer s, can't remember what all they did (anne) brb (Tina) ck, no it has images in the border (anne) but he picked out ones he liked from his instructor (sal) what about those pages that send you to the new address of a site that has moved...i don't think that's jscript, shad... (anne) oh ok tina (Tina) what anne? (anne) but is not this the same as a timed splash page what they are talking about (anne) brb (shadrak) Do they ask you to click or do they do it on a timer sal? (sal) timer (ck) Oh, now I see Tina (shadrak) What's a splash page? (sal) you have a choice (ck) I think we did a push page on the Oz pages, without html (e-less) what we decided we didn't need - an ad page - (shadrak) Bet it's a script then (sal) for the browsers that don't respond to what is it called...server push? (sal) right, chris (anne) shoot, spidey made one but now i see it is untimed (sal) spidey??? (anne) splash page shadrak is one like a title page, or new info that loads for just a little then you can see it but it then goes to the next page and stops it there (shadrak) k (anne) i have some examples they gave us from a class meeting (anne) don't know what kind of script did it (anne) think they would have said splash page if that is what they meant in this lesson tho (sal) cgi routines.... (sal) for server push. *** ck has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) (shadrak) got a URL? we can look at it (anne) brb (shadrak) Challenge 1 is done (shadrak) The WWW site is http://www.oocities.org/Heartland/Plains/1238/challenge-1.html (e-less) I'd like to take same approach as we did on lesson-3 and use that to be challenge 2 (sal) hmmm....looks familiar... (Tina) well maybe *** bahrd has quit IRC (EOF From client) (Tina) I want to do a frame page... even if it's just for practice because I haven't done one at all and dont' know how (shadrak) Do you know where the tutorial is? (flamingo) I have a frame on my homepage (sal) hahahaah...i got enough practice this weekend! * shadrak says hahaha! (anne) (who) here is a splash page? http://www. (anne) kenwoodusa.com/ (anne) (Cat) Another splash page is http://frans (anne) wa.superior.net (e-less) me too tina (anne) http://www.kenwoodusa.com/ (anne) http://franswa.superior.net (ingo) How much can we incorporate what we already have looks to mee that we did already tackle some of the challenges (flamingo) I really don't like Splash pages! (shadrak) trying the first one (anne) me either flamingo (e-less) but we don't have to do splash (flamingo) I can (anne) we do not have to keep it e-less (flamingo) I can't get the first one to come up (anne) just show that we can do one (shadrak) But it would be nice to know how they work (Tina) ok (Tina) so the splash page isn't a script (Tina) it's something in the meta (e-less) but you'r talking about challnge 4 - which to me is checkin user's browser (Tina) I'm not (e-less) not what? (shadrak) The second URL uses a JAva Applet (Tina) oops (Tina) it is challenge 4 (anne) oh ok (e-less) ok what? (Tina) challenge 4 is 2 things (Tina) chalenge 4 is checking a browser and doing a push (anne) hmmm the guys were playing with checking your browser when we were in 821 (flamingo) The second one uses this: (anne) jim mauney did a routine i remember, when setting up their own servers (flamingo) (META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="60; URL=http://franswa.superi or.net/home.html") (e-less) sound slightly indecent (shadrak) Wrong. The second page uses a meta command (shadrak) (META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh" CONTENT="60; URL=http://franswa.superi or.net/home.html") (Tina) I don't see many groups finishing their pages by the end of the course (Tina) It's taking so long to complete the lessons, there's no time to do anything about ocntent (sal) right... (flamingo) I was thinking the same thing Tina (anne) that is true tina (sal) don't know why they feel we have to have all of it in one course... (anne) i for sure do not care to spend much time on this assignment at all (e-less) yes - too true - nto enough time (flamingo) Shad, what is a META... (sal) i'd prefer learning a little bit WELL (anne) and e-less, you had stuff about META in your homework pages (shadrak) dunno. I found the line in the source and it seems to be what controls going to the next page. (anne) the meta from ingo's front page gave us interrupts when trying to load in NS (e-less) yes - but I"m sure that came from teh netscape editor (flamingo) So, we should just try to copy the Meta tag. ;-) (shadrak) I'd rather learn what they do (anne) i will email if i can find the other page someone did that was timed too, not a clue where to look right now (Tina) and also (Tina) challenge #5 (shadrak) Bet Netscape site has some info (Tina) doing a form (anne) shad has already made a form (flamingo) I did a form on my Teen page (shadrak) I have? (e-less) that could be nice - a ofrm to e-mail us all, or singly or by topic (anne) thought you did after you read that forms tutorial, maybe it was a different time (sal) does geo support forms? (anne) sal, they have their own routine you can use (anne) it is not cgi tho (shadrak) I did it for myself..don't think I put it up, (sal) oh, ok... (anne) i know we never saw it (sal) hmmm.... (anne) flamingo, what did you use for your form on teen page (shadrak) Everybody supports forms..geo does not support cgi (e-less) but it says#5 - forms using CGI (flamingo) http://www.oocities.org/Athen s/Acropolis/6729/self5.htm (flamingo) Check it out (anne) in one of the pages i did get the correct url for, there could be security problems with certain kinds (e-less) can we find different site for form? (shadrak) I intend to ignorw #5 because I refuse to learn perl (shadrak) cybercities suppors some cgi (sal) cgi is almost a synonym for forms to me... (anne) oh could not get to yours flamingo (sal) some isps don't use cgi, either.... (anne) there are already made directions that we can use if want to do it shad (shadrak) That's why I want to learn JAVA so I can get away from server side code. (flamingo) Anne, I just went there. (anne) i do not think we really had to learn to program (anne) i will try again then, thanks (sal) right...that makes sense, shad (flamingo) My form is Client side (Tina) no, there are places where you can use cgi scripts of other people (anne) right, that dave's place is one (sal) matt's script archive... (e-less) how can you tell whether clien side or server side form? (shadrak) flamingo, do you process the form on your page or process email? (flamingo) On my page (anne) matts right (flamingo) But I could change it to email (shadrak) what's the url? (flamingo) My url? (shadrak) for your form page (flamingo) http://www.oocities.org/Athen s/Acropolis/6729/self5.htm (flamingo) It is just a check box form *** Tatyana (tatyana@stjhts19c12.nbnet.nb .ca) has joined #societal *** Tatyana is now known as Tina- (sal) http://www.worldwidemart.com/script s/ (sal) that's matt's (flamingo) The problem with doing a Server side form is that I can't check it out, because my ISP doesn't support them. *** Tina has quit IRC (Ping timeout) (Tina-) well, for me I think since we only have one week... I'm going to concentrate on doing a frames page (shadrak) Flamingo, I don't see a SUBMIT button, so how can you be doing any processing? (ingo) do we need to consider what happens to the user input *** anne sets mode: +o Tina- (flamingo) I'm not but I could easily change it to email and submit.... (anne) good, then we have a form (anne) does it use cgi flamingo (sal) but then msie won't work with it, cynthia (flamingo) I will only have to add two lines (ingo) are we looking at automated response / evaluation or what happens (shadrak) Ok. I was worried that you had figured out a way to do "client side" processing of forms. (flamingo) I have (flamingo) I have a freeware program that will do it for me (shadrak) Oh. Besides email, what is it? (Tina-) flamingo, I think I have that same program (ingo) What is that program called - where can it be downloaded from? (Tina-) it's called Web Forms (flamingo) brb (shadrak) But NS MAIL will process the email from forms very (shadrak) nicely (flamingo) It is called mailto:Formatter (anne) these are in the lesson and were cgi stuff for win 95 (Tina-) oops mine's different from flamingo's (anne) http://www.oocities.org/SiliconVa lley/6742/ (Tina-) and mine's shareware I believe (Tina-) anyway (flamingo) http://junior.apk.net/~jbarta/ tutor/forms/mtfsites.html (flamingo) Try that url (anne) oh that is the one that had the warnings on it, i was just looking for that (shadrak) 'tis dinner time here in Woodland Hills. Thank you all for such a nice birthday present! (sal) what did we do without barta??? (flamingo) Yes, that url works (sal) happy birthday! (anne) happy bday (sal) we had lots of fun doing it! (anne) glad you called the meeting for tonight (flamingo) Happy Birthday Shad (ingo) happy birthday Shad (Goofy) bye shad and happy birthday I must go too! (shadrak) Let me know what we decide about this stupid assignment. (Liz) happy birthday (anne) if we need cgi, can we do it at cybercities too shad (anne) i vote not to do it (anne) lol *** Goofy (lwal@anxp9.ob.centuryinter.net ) has left #societal (shadrak) dunno how far they go in support * shadrak says TTYL *** shadrak (irwin@irwin.pacificnet.net) has left #societal (anne) can your form with a few fixes count then flamingo? (anne) we could just have an intro page to the main index when shadrak figures out the push code (anne) that is best to use (flamingo) I feel like I have already done Challenges #1, 3 and 5. But I need to do # 2 and 4 (flamingo) I think so Anne (anne) k great (anne) so we can point to those for the homework assignments (anne) and if anyone else decides to play a bit, add it to them (flamingo) Sure (flamingo) Sounds great (e-less) so - we do it same as lesson 3 - and I can do tables and no tables? (flamingo) Kind of like the last Lesson... everyone added to what they wanted to learn (anne) right (anne) and the mainindex page would be where there is the script to check the browser (anne) it should be somewhere in the resources how to do that (anne) i still do not understand the multiple loading of pages in the frames, is that different than just doing plain frames (anne) we know the code from doing infosources how to point to pages with that _top and ingo and shad have that on their frames already (flamingo) I think that it means that you can load several different link pages in the same frame (anne) k i do not think anyone has done that yet * anne is not interested in that part (sal) i don't even understand that! (flamingo) I have it on my Home page and Infosources does too (anne) ok if that is what it means, i understand (Tina-) bye guys (anne) nite tina (flamingo) seeya tina (ingo) see ya tina *** Tina- (tatyana@stjhts19c12.nbnet.nb.c a) has left #societal (e-less) nite Tina (sal) oh...just the way frames normally operate? (anne) why did they make it sound so different then (flamingo) I'm not interested in doing another frames page either (sal) bye (anne) i think it is a trick question (e-less) bye sal (ingo) bye sal (sal) i'm not going... (anne) and we knew about loading another browser page and did not want that either (sal) sheesh...tina's gone now! ;-) (anne) gotta be quicker sal (sal) hahaha (anne) i need to work on content this week, will be glad to add to anyone's table stuff (e-less) gee - and I flt so bad I wanted to be first ot say bye to sal (flamingo) There is Java Script on the frames part... ? (anne) not in anybody's frames right now (flamingo) no (sal) i need to work on content too, but truthfully, i don't really care that much about this topic...all the stuff in the lessons has kinda dampened my enthusiasm.... (anne) remember how shad had to fix the music with javascript so that it would be the same in NS and MSIE (anne) maybe that is what they are talking about (sal) and how easy it would have been to do just a link to music... (anne) right sal (anne) but he wanted to figure out how to do it, remember (sal) right... (sal) he has a lot more curiosity about many things than i do... (anne) and i could follow what he did when he set it up and then add more text to it (flamingo) Maybe this lesson is about finding out what you DON'T want to do to your page??? (anne) hahhaaa (sal) hahaha (sal) and i think i learned that on the birthday card! (anne) so far, i agree it is not what we want except the input form maybe (sal) right... (anne) and i love sal's javascript routine for the quotes (flamingo) After doing frames ... I really don't like them... I hate that you can't bookmark a page in a frame. (sal) isn't that good? (anne) could do something like that on the next assignment for facts about it (sal) anne, the guy who wrote that app lives about 20 miles from us... (Liz) i agree flamingo (anne) flamingo, right click then you can add it as a bookmark, have to tap the frame with the mouse first (ingo) what do you mean, I think you can (anne) and ingo found out same way to do it in MSIE to add it to your favoriate places (ingo) Anne said the rest * anne is sad, i still cannot talk ingo out of frames ;( (anne) i feel very inhibited by frames (flamingo) But most people don't know to do that and I don't think that it works on a Mac. (sal) without having to dl that ms app? (sal) i just don't like the way they look... (sal) or act (flamingo) I think that we have several people in our group that will do the frames part. (anne) right (anne) sal, do you want to work on putting stuff in a table with me and eless and flamingo (ingo) I think Shad has a short routine (Aplet) in his frame (government page) determining whether so is using NS 3 or not (e-less) yeah - I get to do tables? (anne) but didn't you want to learn about frames e-less too (sal) sure, anne... (e-less) yes - want frames as well - but think we can each do frames if we want (flamingo) We shouldn't have any problem doing the tables. (e-less) hahahahaha (anne) the biggest problem was getting them to line up in everyone's browsers (e-less) keep line short - insert breaks (anne) rihgt (flamingo) True... and that is something that I would like to work on more (anne) you sure got initiated by fire e-less (e-less) yeah - but it is burned into my brain now (anne) best way to learn (e-less) yes - painful but works (anne) don't forget to add you homepage to the work.html too e-less (anne) just copy a line from another that is heartland plains and change address to yours (anne) i liked our graphics assignments much better (anne) one week for this huh (sal) and i'm hatching another page in my spare time... (anne) oh sal, what is it about this time (e-less) but how do I edit work.html - is it on shadrak's site? (sal) it's one for the church in corinth.... * flamingo says are the other groups getting their content for their page done? (anne) that is why i want to work on that on not on the homework this week (sal) i looked at a few this afternoon, and found no content.. (anne) bracketeers is struggling with content i know (flamingo) Maybe some groups just aren't putting up their real pages yet? (anne) true (sal) doesn't surprise me, anne... (sal) that could be it... (flamingo) I know that I was reluctant to put my stuff up (anne) but we are glad you did (flamingo) lol (e-less) so anne - work on content - whoever wants frames - makes sample - flamingo and I will do tables - and shadrak can do push page - tha leave side border and forms (flamingo) I finished another area today. Now I have just two more areas to complete. Then I can go back and add to the other pages. (anne) you already have the side border part done with presentation of homework, e-less and ingo (flamingo) I agree anne (e-less) year that's right - so let's agree and go to bed! (anne) flamingo, that is great (ingo) and we also checked that it works with different browsers (anne) except for e-less's is not the same (anne) so just shorten that side (anne) and keep the percents (anne) can you redo that border background a little smaller back to original size e-less (e-less) yes - i made it bigger - but can easily make it smaller - want to chane it slightly anyway (anne) good (Liz) good nite everyone (anne) then it will work great (e-less) nite liz *** Liz (~locuse@customs624.ipass.net) has left #societal (sal) take care... (anne) nite too everyone (ingo) nite liz (sal) i need to reboot... (anne) and i am leaving (flamingo) Does anyone know if Fredrick is still part of our group? (sal) don't know... (anne) let's ask irwin to write to him (flamingo) k (anne) he seems to respond when it is just one person writing (anne) i will write to irwin when i get off here and ask him to write (sal) hmmm... (flamingo) k (anne) e-less, you need to decide which group topic appeals to you too (flamingo) Has Fredrick done anything? (e-less) i'm going too now - will cahnge my left border tomorrow and add new text for cahllenges - (anne) no he has not (sal) y'all take care... *** sal (~xxxx@anxp8.ob.centuryinter.net) has left #societal (anne) so i am assuming he is not going to do anything (flamingo) good night everyone (e-less) I think governemt - because of wher I work but am afraid I don't have much to contribute (e-less) night flamingo (anne) e-less, shadrak will give you an idea of something to research (ingo) May be you could at a Canadian perspective *** flamingo has quit IRC (Leaving) (anne) it will be easy cause he already has ideas (anne) and he would really like someone to work with (anne) canadian perspective is a good idea ingo (anne) as sometimes folks do not realize (anne) he also wanted to do something international (anne) e-less where do you work? (e-less) ok - but am verys stubborn and have own ideas too - would like somethin Canadian - work at ICAO the International Civil Aviation Organization (anne) ok (e-less) which is one of UN agencies - should be able to dig up lots on international (anne) great (ingo) sounds good (e-less) ingo - you're in Toront? (ingo) no, I'm in Sarnia - at the bottom of lkae Huron (ingo) lake Huron (anne) very close to me in detroit area e-less (anne) where in canada are you e-less (e-less) ah - further north - do you still ahve snow? (e-less) Montreal (anne) that's right, i was trying to remember and could not (anne) gonna say nite guys (e-less) anne - ith ought you were out west (ingo) we are further south (anne) no, EST and snow pretty much melted, now a light coating (anne) nothing like the ice and snow you got e-less (anne) chris ck is from west coast california (e-less) of ocurse - Ingo - silly me (ingo) tina is from New brunswick, right (e-less) must be really late for you tina (anne) i am not sure, i could not tell from her bio, she said the city and it is a small one on the coast (e-less) so with all of us canadians - why don't we do something canadaina (anne) e-less, in your other spare time, LOL, write just a quick bio and add it like you uploaded homework (e-less) how about the sovereignty ssue? argghhh (anne) too late to switch in midstream i think e-less (anne) tina is already on a different topic (e-less) yuck yuck (ingo) think your'e right (anne) bye guys (anne) see ya Session Close: Mon Feb 24 22:32:36 1997Back to log list
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