Log Societal Group: Feb, 24 1997
Shadrak's Birthday Party and Lesson 6 Challenges
Session Start: Mon Feb 24 20:15:01 1997
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(ingo) Hi Anne
*** shadrak (irwin@irwin.pacificnet.net)
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(anne) hi
(shadrak) hi folks
*** anne sets mode: +o ingo
*** anne sets mode: +o shadrak
(ingo) Hi the two of you
(anne) you sure have been busy writing
scripts shadrak
[SOUND]
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(ingo) Hi Sal
(sal) happy birthday, shad...
(anne) oh it was a long day ingo
(anne) yes happy bday shad
(shadrak) Younger than Springtime, am I
...
(sal) hi, ingo...
(ingo) Yea, Happy Birthday
(shadrak) Thank you all!
(anne) your photos are great shadrak
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(anne) hi liz
(ingo) Hi liz
*** anne sets mode: +o Liz
(Liz) hi everyone
(sal) hi, liz
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(Liz) ok
*** ingo sets mode: +o shadrak
(shadrak) gonna be one of thos nights!
(sal) we've done a little more on
infosources...you know anne and i
were planning to do something else...
(sal) wait a minute...
(sal) wish you'd check it for us..
(anne) just at the geocities for right
now
(shadrak) what have you changed or added?
(sal) right...
(sal) we added a new section...
(sal) that we had been talking about ...
(sal) but haven't linked it to the first
page yet...
(sal) http://www.oocities.org/CapeCanaveral/8382/hbd.html
TIME OUT TO CELEBRATE SHADRAK'S
BIRTHDAY with the card we made him using
all of our HTLM SKILLS
Back to Discussion of Challenges
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(shadrak) hi flamingo
(anne) hi flamingo
(sal) hi, cynthia...
(flamingo) Hi everyone!
(ingo) Hi flamingo
(shadrak) nice page hens!!!!
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(anne) i met who on powwow for just a
minute
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(flamingo) Hi Tina
*** anne sets mode: +o Tina
(Tina) hi
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(shadrak) hi ck
(anne) hi ck
(anne) shad is looking at the card now ;)
(ck) hi all
(Tina) are we gonna add a page for
lesson 4 like we did for lesson 3
(Tina) so we can add the stuff we do to
it?
(e-less) Yes - and we can do tables and
Sal can do frame
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(ingo) thanks Anne
(ingo) I tried
* ck still doesn't know how
(sal) hahahaha
(anne) tina, this looks more like we
have to incorporate it as part of
societal page
(Tina) icky
(anne) right
(Tina) and we only have the one week to
do it
(anne) but, we don't have to keep it ;(
(anne) two weeks
(Tina) no one week
(ck) I wish they gave us a clue on how
to make a page look like one with
tables (without having tables)
(anne) i thought they said every outline
is two weeks
(Tina) the last 2 weeks will be java,
javascript
(flamingo) I think it is one week too
(Tina) well last week they have an
extension to graphics
(Tina) we only have 3 weeks left of the
course
(shadrak) This week appears to be (badly
done) JacvaScript
(anne) looks like your single pixel dots
will come out again for that one chris
(ck) Maybe we can take e-less's table
page and try to recreate without
tables?
(e-less) tables - no tables is easy - we
almost did it with lesson 3 - before
and after Chris fixed it
(anne) thank goodness we have you shadrak
(anne) except what about the border
problem for all browsers ;(
(e-less) CK - you took the words right
out of my mouth
(anne) just make a smaller border and we
should be ok
(bahrd) hey shad HB again
(anne) on my laptop in netscape, it all
lined up again so must have higher
resolution on it
(e-less) Anne's border page!
(ck) why doesn't giving the width in
pixels work?
(shadrak) I'd like to address browser
idiosyncracies w/respect to frames
(anne) k good shad
(shadrak) thanks bahrd
(e-less) but Anne - I saw somethin about
the offset in different browser - I
think that's what the diff was
(Tina) my page works on both msie,
netscape and with at least 2
resolutions and it's done in tables
(anne) well, we need to learn how to
show it in both
(Tina) I meant my personal page, not the
one with this course
(anne) right tina
(anne) it was fine
(anne) you had narrower graphic titles
on the left
(ck) tina, do you do width in pixels or %
(anne) e-less had a lot of words ini the
left column
(ck) how do you know how many pixels to
use for the width?
(Tina) I use % because the % takes a %
of the total width of resolution
where if you use pixel, say you use
400 for a 640 width, when you go to
800 resolution, it'll stay only 400
(Tina) where if you used say 80%, it'll
be 80% of whatever the resolution is
(e-less) but we douls sort of do the
same thing but make it for this
lesson - less words this time and I
know how to do it both with and
without tables arrgh
(e-less) douls = could
(shadrak) ck, if you're using a border,
width ought to be same as border
(ck) shad, do know of any idiosyncracies
with frames & browsers
(ck) Tina, if you use a percent, when a
person widens or shrinks their
browser, doesn't that change the
width of the border column?
(ck) shadrak? question is how do I
figure out the # pixels in a border?
(anne) the border column was wider on my
laptop and i had more space on the
right too
(shadrak) Yep border=no in NS frameborde
=no in IE; NS doen't honor (noframe)
outside of frameset page (IE does).
NS border =no makes resize = no
(shadrak) use PSP to see how wide your
border is
(sal) ?????
(ck) oic shad
(Tina) ck, I don't know... it hasn't
happened to me and i use %
(anne) right that is what i was just
writing to say to ck, even cut the
left part if you need to
(ck) Tina, can you give me your URL?
(shadrak) If you want, say, an index in
the border, you need to make that
part of the table consistent with
your border width in pixels.
(Tina) http://cqws.com/users/zoso/
(anne) but shad, didn't you say stuff
bled in NS 3 that did not in NS 4
(anne) one more page we need to do is
the timed one somewhere
(flamingo) Anne, where does it say that
we have to do the Challenges and use
them on our pages?
(anne) that sounded to me like a splash
page
(sal) me too, anne...
(anne) oh on the frames one, it said we
did not have to leave it
(anne) it said use it somewhere in your
pages
(shadrak) That was the non-border part.
NS3, NS4 AND MSIE have different
rules for table indentation and treat
BLOCKQUOTE differently
(flamingo) I've never heard of a Push
page.
(ck) Maybe we could do a sub page for
the splash page, like our working page
(anne) right
(anne) then it comes up to the main index
(anne) could we make the photos in
different size that yu used on the
buttons tina
(shadrak) A push page uses some kind of
timer. Don't know how it works..proba
bly a JAvaScript.
(flamingo) Where do we find the
Javascript?
(ck) Tina, your url doesn't have words
in the border..???
(anne) i will send some javascript
routines that spidey sent to bracketeer
s, can't remember what all they did
(anne) brb
(Tina) ck, no it has images in the border
(anne) but he picked out ones he liked
from his instructor
(sal) what about those pages that send
you to the new address of a site that
has moved...i don't think that's
jscript, shad...
(anne) oh ok tina
(Tina) what anne?
(anne) but is not this the same as a
timed splash page what they are
talking about
(anne) brb
(shadrak) Do they ask you to click or do
they do it on a timer sal?
(sal) timer
(ck) Oh, now I see Tina
(shadrak) What's a splash page?
(sal) you have a choice
(ck) I think we did a push page on the
Oz pages, without html
(e-less) what we decided we didn't need
- an ad page -
(shadrak) Bet it's a script then
(sal) for the browsers that don't
respond to what is it called...server
push?
(sal) right, chris
(anne) shoot, spidey made one but now i
see it is untimed
(sal) spidey???
(anne) splash page shadrak is one like a
title page, or new info that loads for
just a little then you can see it but
it then goes to the next page and
stops it there
(shadrak) k
(anne) i have some examples they gave us
from a class meeting
(anne) don't know what kind of script
did it
(anne) think they would have said splash
page if that is what they meant in
this lesson tho
(sal) cgi routines....
(sal) for server push.
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peer)
(shadrak) got a URL? we can look at it
(anne) brb
(shadrak) Challenge 1 is done
(shadrak) The WWW site is
http://www.oocities.org/Heartland/Plains/1238/challenge-1.html
(e-less) I'd like to take same approach
as we did on lesson-3 and use that to
be challenge 2
(sal) hmmm....looks familiar...
(Tina) well maybe
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(Tina) I want to do a frame page... even
if it's just for practice because I
haven't done one at all and dont'
know how
(shadrak) Do you know where the tutorial
is?
(flamingo) I have a frame on my homepage
(sal) hahahaah...i got enough practice
this weekend!
* shadrak says hahaha!
(anne) (who) here is a splash page?
http://www.
(anne) kenwoodusa.com/
(anne) (Cat) Another splash page is
http://frans
(anne) wa.superior.net
(e-less) me too tina
(anne) http://www.kenwoodusa.com/
(anne) http://franswa.superior.net
(ingo) How much can we incorporate what
we already have looks to mee that we
did already tackle some of the
challenges
(flamingo) I really don't like Splash
pages!
(shadrak) trying the first one
(anne) me either flamingo
(e-less) but we don't have to do splash
(flamingo) I can
(anne) we do not have to keep it e-less
(flamingo) I can't get the first one to
come up
(anne) just show that we can do one
(shadrak) But it would be nice to know
how they work
(Tina) ok
(Tina) so the splash page isn't a script
(Tina) it's something in the meta
(e-less) but you'r talking about
challnge 4 - which to me is checkin
user's browser
(Tina) I'm not
(e-less) not what?
(shadrak) The second URL uses a JAva
Applet
(Tina) oops
(Tina) it is challenge 4
(anne) oh ok
(e-less) ok what?
(Tina) challenge 4 is 2 things
(Tina) chalenge 4 is checking a browser
and doing a push
(anne) hmmm the guys were playing with
checking your browser when we were in
821
(flamingo) The second one uses this:
(anne) jim mauney did a routine i
remember, when setting up their own
servers
(flamingo) (META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh"
CONTENT="60; URL=http://franswa.superi
or.net/home.html")
(e-less) sound slightly indecent
(shadrak) Wrong. The second page uses a
meta command
(shadrak) (META HTTP-EQUIV="Refresh"
CONTENT="60; URL=http://franswa.superi
or.net/home.html")
(Tina) I don't see many groups finishing
their pages by the end of the course
(Tina) It's taking so long to complete
the lessons, there's no time to do
anything about ocntent
(sal) right...
(flamingo) I was thinking the same thing
Tina
(anne) that is true tina
(sal) don't know why they feel we have
to have all of it in one course...
(anne) i for sure do not care to spend
much time on this assignment at all
(e-less) yes - too true - nto enough time
(flamingo) Shad, what is a META...
(sal) i'd prefer learning a little bit
WELL
(anne) and e-less, you had stuff about
META in your homework pages
(shadrak) dunno. I found the line in
the source and it seems to be what
controls going to the next page.
(anne) the meta from ingo's front page
gave us interrupts when trying to load
in NS
(e-less) yes - but I"m sure that came
from teh netscape editor
(flamingo) So, we should just try to
copy the Meta tag. ;-)
(shadrak) I'd rather learn what they do
(anne) i will email if i can find the
other page someone did that was timed
too, not a clue where to look right now
(Tina) and also
(Tina) challenge #5
(shadrak) Bet Netscape site has some info
(Tina) doing a form
(anne) shad has already made a form
(flamingo) I did a form on my Teen page
(shadrak) I have?
(e-less) that could be nice - a ofrm to
e-mail us all, or singly or by topic
(anne) thought you did after you read
that forms tutorial, maybe it was a
different time
(sal) does geo support forms?
(anne) sal, they have their own routine
you can use
(anne) it is not cgi tho
(shadrak) I did it for myself..don't
think I put it up,
(sal) oh, ok...
(anne) i know we never saw it
(sal) hmmm....
(anne) flamingo, what did you use for
your form on teen page
(shadrak) Everybody supports forms..geo
does not support cgi
(e-less) but it says#5 - forms using CGI
(flamingo) http://www.oocities.org/Athen
s/Acropolis/6729/self5.htm
(flamingo) Check it out
(anne) in one of the pages i did get the
correct url for, there could be
security problems with certain kinds
(e-less) can we find different site for
form?
(shadrak) I intend to ignorw #5 because
I refuse to learn perl
(shadrak) cybercities suppors some cgi
(sal) cgi is almost a synonym for forms
to me...
(anne) oh could not get to yours flamingo
(sal) some isps don't use cgi, either....
(anne) there are already made directions
that we can use if want to do it shad
(shadrak) That's why I want to learn
JAVA so I can get away from server
side code.
(flamingo) Anne, I just went there.
(anne) i do not think we really had to
learn to program
(anne) i will try again then, thanks
(sal) right...that makes sense, shad
(flamingo) My form is Client side
(Tina) no, there are places where you
can use cgi scripts of other people
(anne) right, that dave's place is one
(sal) matt's script archive...
(e-less) how can you tell whether clien
side or server side form?
(shadrak) flamingo, do you process the
form on your page or process email?
(flamingo) On my page
(anne) matts right
(flamingo) But I could change it to email
(shadrak) what's the url?
(flamingo) My url?
(shadrak) for your form page
(flamingo) http://www.oocities.org/Athen
s/Acropolis/6729/self5.htm
(flamingo) It is just a check box form
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(sal) http://www.worldwidemart.com/script
s/
(sal) that's matt's
(flamingo) The problem with doing a
Server side form is that I can't
check it out, because my ISP doesn't
support them.
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(Tina-) well, for me I think since we
only have one week... I'm going to
concentrate on doing a frames page
(shadrak) Flamingo, I don't see a SUBMIT
button, so how can you be doing any
processing?
(ingo) do we need to consider what
happens to the user input
*** anne sets mode: +o Tina-
(flamingo) I'm not but I could easily
change it to email and submit....
(anne) good, then we have a form
(anne) does it use cgi flamingo
(sal) but then msie won't work with it,
cynthia
(flamingo) I will only have to add two
lines
(ingo) are we looking at automated
response / evaluation or what happens
(shadrak) Ok. I was worried that you
had figured out a way to do "client
side" processing of forms.
(flamingo) I have
(flamingo) I have a freeware program
that will do it for me
(shadrak) Oh. Besides email, what is it?
(Tina-) flamingo, I think I have that
same program
(ingo) What is that program called -
where can it be downloaded from?
(Tina-) it's called Web Forms
(flamingo) brb
(shadrak) But NS MAIL will process the
email from forms very
(shadrak) nicely
(flamingo) It is called mailto:Formatter
(anne) these are in the lesson and were
cgi stuff for win 95
(Tina-) oops mine's different from
flamingo's
(anne) http://www.oocities.org/SiliconVa
lley/6742/
(Tina-) and mine's shareware I believe
(Tina-) anyway
(flamingo) http://junior.apk.net/~jbarta/
tutor/forms/mtfsites.html
(flamingo) Try that url
(anne) oh that is the one that had the
warnings on it, i was just looking for
that
(shadrak) 'tis dinner time here in
Woodland Hills. Thank you all for
such a nice birthday present!
(sal) what did we do without barta???
(flamingo) Yes, that url works
(sal) happy birthday!
(anne) happy bday
(sal) we had lots of fun doing it!
(anne) glad you called the meeting for
tonight
(flamingo) Happy Birthday Shad
(ingo) happy birthday Shad
(Goofy) bye shad and happy birthday I
must go too!
(shadrak) Let me know what we decide
about this stupid assignment.
(Liz) happy birthday
(anne) if we need cgi, can we do it at
cybercities too shad
(anne) i vote not to do it
(anne) lol
*** Goofy (lwal@anxp9.ob.centuryinter.net
) has left #societal
(shadrak) dunno how far they go in
support
* shadrak says TTYL
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has left #societal
(anne) can your form with a few fixes
count then flamingo?
(anne) we could just have an intro page
to the main index when shadrak figures
out the push code
(anne) that is best to use
(flamingo) I feel like I have already
done Challenges #1, 3 and 5. But I
need to do # 2 and 4
(flamingo) I think so Anne
(anne) k great
(anne) so we can point to those for the
homework assignments
(anne) and if anyone else decides to
play a bit, add it to them
(flamingo) Sure
(flamingo) Sounds great
(e-less) so - we do it same as lesson 3
- and I can do tables and no tables?
(flamingo) Kind of like the last
Lesson... everyone added to what they
wanted to learn
(anne) right
(anne) and the mainindex page would be
where there is the script to check the
browser
(anne) it should be somewhere in the
resources how to do that
(anne) i still do not understand the
multiple loading of pages in the
frames, is that different than just
doing plain frames
(anne) we know the code from doing
infosources how to point to pages with
that _top and ingo and shad have that
on their frames already
(flamingo) I think that it means that
you can load several different link
pages in the same frame
(anne) k i do not think anyone has done
that yet
* anne is not interested in that part
(sal) i don't even understand that!
(flamingo) I have it on my Home page and
Infosources does too
(anne) ok if that is what it means, i
understand
(Tina-) bye guys
(anne) nite tina
(flamingo) seeya tina
(ingo) see ya tina
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a) has left #societal
(e-less) nite Tina
(sal) oh...just the way frames normally
operate?
(anne) why did they make it sound so
different then
(flamingo) I'm not interested in doing
another frames page either
(sal) bye
(anne) i think it is a trick question
(e-less) bye sal
(ingo) bye sal
(sal) i'm not going...
(anne) and we knew about loading another
browser page and did not want that
either
(sal) sheesh...tina's gone now! ;-)
(anne) gotta be quicker sal
(sal) hahaha
(anne) i need to work on content this
week, will be glad to add to anyone's
table stuff
(e-less) gee - and I flt so bad I wanted
to be first ot say bye to sal
(flamingo) There is Java Script on the
frames part... ?
(anne) not in anybody's frames right now
(flamingo) no
(sal) i need to work on content too, but
truthfully, i don't really care that
much about this topic...all the stuff
in the lessons has kinda dampened my
enthusiasm....
(anne) remember how shad had to fix the
music with javascript so that it would
be the same in NS and MSIE
(anne) maybe that is what they are
talking about
(sal) and how easy it would have been to
do just a link to music...
(anne) right sal
(anne) but he wanted to figure out how
to do it, remember
(sal) right...
(sal) he has a lot more curiosity about
many things than i do...
(anne) and i could follow what he did
when he set it up and then add more
text to it
(flamingo) Maybe this lesson is about
finding out what you DON'T want to do
to your page???
(anne) hahhaaa
(sal) hahaha
(sal) and i think i learned that on the
birthday card!
(anne) so far, i agree it is not what we
want except the input form maybe
(sal) right...
(anne) and i love sal's javascript
routine for the quotes
(flamingo) After doing frames ... I
really don't like them... I hate that
you can't bookmark a page in a frame.
(sal) isn't that good?
(anne) could do something like that on
the next assignment for facts about it
(sal) anne, the guy who wrote that app
lives about 20 miles from us...
(Liz) i agree flamingo
(anne) flamingo, right click then you
can add it as a bookmark, have to tap
the frame with the mouse first
(ingo) what do you mean, I think you can
(anne) and ingo found out same way to do
it in MSIE to add it to your favoriate
places
(ingo) Anne said the rest
* anne is sad, i still cannot talk ingo
out of frames ;(
(anne) i feel very inhibited by frames
(flamingo) But most people don't know to
do that and I don't think that it
works on a Mac.
(sal) without having to dl that ms app?
(sal) i just don't like the way they
look...
(sal) or act
(flamingo) I think that we have several
people in our group that will do the
frames part.
(anne) right
(anne) sal, do you want to work on
putting stuff in a table with me and
eless and flamingo
(ingo) I think Shad has a short routine
(Aplet) in his frame (government
page) determining whether so is using
NS 3 or not
(e-less) yeah - I get to do tables?
(anne) but didn't you want to learn
about frames e-less too
(sal) sure, anne...
(e-less) yes - want frames as well - but
think we can each do frames if we want
(flamingo) We shouldn't have any problem
doing the tables.
(e-less) hahahahaha
(anne) the biggest problem was getting
them to line up in everyone's browsers
(e-less) keep line short - insert breaks
(anne) rihgt
(flamingo) True... and that is something
that I would like to work on more
(anne) you sure got initiated by fire
e-less
(e-less) yeah - but it is burned into my
brain now
(anne) best way to learn
(e-less) yes - painful but works
(anne) don't forget to add you homepage
to the work.html too e-less
(anne) just copy a line from another
that is heartland plains and change
address to yours
(anne) i liked our graphics assignments
much better
(anne) one week for this huh
(sal) and i'm hatching another page in
my spare time...
(anne) oh sal, what is it about this time
(e-less) but how do I edit work.html -
is it on shadrak's site?
(sal) it's one for the church in
corinth....
* flamingo says are the other groups
getting their content for their page
done?
(anne) that is why i want to work on
that on not on the homework this week
(sal) i looked at a few this afternoon,
and found no content..
(anne) bracketeers is struggling with
content i know
(flamingo) Maybe some groups just aren't
putting up their real pages yet?
(anne) true
(sal) doesn't surprise me, anne...
(sal) that could be it...
(flamingo) I know that I was reluctant
to put my stuff up
(anne) but we are glad you did
(flamingo) lol
(e-less) so anne - work on content -
whoever wants frames - makes sample -
flamingo and I will do tables - and
shadrak can do push page - tha leave
side border and forms
(flamingo) I finished another area
today. Now I have just two more areas
to complete. Then I can go back and
add to the other pages.
(anne) you already have the side border
part done with presentation of
homework, e-less and ingo
(flamingo) I agree anne
(e-less) year that's right - so let's
agree and go to bed!
(anne) flamingo, that is great
(ingo) and we also checked that it works
with different browsers
(anne) except for e-less's is not the
same
(anne) so just shorten that side
(anne) and keep the percents
(anne) can you redo that border
background a little smaller back to
original size e-less
(e-less) yes - i made it bigger - but
can easily make it smaller - want to
chane it slightly anyway
(anne) good
(Liz) good nite everyone
(anne) then it will work great
(e-less) nite liz
*** Liz (~locuse@customs624.ipass.net)
has left #societal
(sal) take care...
(anne) nite too everyone
(ingo) nite liz
(sal) i need to reboot...
(anne) and i am leaving
(flamingo) Does anyone know if Fredrick
is still part of our group?
(sal) don't know...
(anne) let's ask irwin to write to him
(flamingo) k
(anne) he seems to respond when it is
just one person writing
(anne) i will write to irwin when i get
off here and ask him to write
(sal) hmmm...
(flamingo) k
(anne) e-less, you need to decide which
group topic appeals to you too
(flamingo) Has Fredrick done anything?
(e-less) i'm going too now - will cahnge
my left border tomorrow and add new
text for cahllenges -
(anne) no he has not
(sal) y'all take care...
*** sal (~xxxx@anxp8.ob.centuryinter.net)
has left #societal
(anne) so i am assuming he is not going
to do anything
(flamingo) good night everyone
(e-less) I think governemt - because of
wher I work but am afraid I don't
have much to contribute
(e-less) night flamingo
(anne) e-less, shadrak will give you an
idea of something to research
(ingo) May be you could at a Canadian
perspective
*** flamingo has quit IRC (Leaving)
(anne) it will be easy cause he already
has ideas
(anne) and he would really like someone
to work with
(anne) canadian perspective is a good
idea ingo
(anne) as sometimes folks do not realize
(anne) he also wanted to do something
international
(anne) e-less where do you work?
(e-less) ok - but am verys stubborn and
have own ideas too - would like
somethin Canadian - work at ICAO the
International Civil Aviation
Organization
(anne) ok
(e-less) which is one of UN agencies -
should be able to dig up lots on
international
(anne) great
(ingo) sounds good
(e-less) ingo - you're in Toront?
(ingo) no, I'm in Sarnia - at the bottom
of lkae Huron
(ingo) lake Huron
(anne) very close to me in detroit area
e-less
(anne) where in canada are you e-less
(e-less) ah - further north - do you
still ahve snow?
(e-less) Montreal
(anne) that's right, i was trying to
remember and could not
(anne) gonna say nite guys
(e-less) anne - ith ought you were out
west
(ingo) we are further south
(anne) no, EST and snow pretty much
melted, now a light coating
(anne) nothing like the ice and snow you
got e-less
(anne) chris ck is from west coast
california
(e-less) of ocurse - Ingo - silly me
(ingo) tina is from New brunswick, right
(e-less) must be really late for you tina
(anne) i am not sure, i could not tell
from her bio, she said the city and it
is a small one on the coast
(e-less) so with all of us canadians -
why don't we do something canadaina
(anne) e-less, in your other spare time,
LOL, write just a quick bio and add it
like you uploaded homework
(e-less) how about the sovereignty ssue?
argghhh
(anne) too late to switch in midstream i
think e-less
(anne) tina is already on a different
topic
(e-less) yuck yuck
(ingo) think your'e right
(anne) bye guys
(anne) see ya
Session Close: Mon Feb 24 22:32:36 1997
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