Log Societal Group: Mar 24, 1997
Session Start: Mon Mar 24 20:20:32 1997 *** Now talking in #societal (anne) hi *** shadrak sets mode: +o anne [shadrak SOUND] (ingo) I normally do go (anne) wb ingo (ingo) Hi anne (anne) i am finally doing my education stuff ;) (ingo) it's only a three hr drive form here (shadrak) Alleluja! (anne) where did you go ingo? (shadrak) He's going to Toronto. (ingo) Anne, I just got a good listing of edu sites (ingo) will read them in tomorrow (anne) oh no, not more links (anne) that is great (ingo) I just got my flyers for the comdex in Toronto (ingo) they always send free sign-up forms (ingo) so it only costs me the gas and 'spending money' (ingo) what can be dangerous (ingo) my lag is crazy - again -) [ingo] PING (shadrak) I get you at 5 secs ingo; anne is 1. (anne) i got 1 second ingo for you (anne) shadrak, did you take a look at how I changed the form? (ingo) it just jumped from 11 to 1.2 (shadrak) now ingo is 1 sec (shadrak) yes anne. Looks good. I think the link to it could be more prominent. (anne) how should we link it do you think (shadrak) You've sure become a forms whiz! (anne) hahaha for sure (anne) it is kind of fuj (anne) n *** Liz (locuse@customs32.ipass.net) has joined #societal (anne) i think it should be a menu item *** shadrak sets mode: +o Liz (shadrak) hi Liz (anne) hi liz *** Tatyana (tatyana@stjhts03c03.nbnet.nb .ca) has joined #societal (ingo) Hi liz (anne) hi tina (ingo) Hi tina (Liz) Hi everybody (Tatyana) hi *** anne sets mode: +o Tatyana *** Tatyana is now known as Tina (Liz) hi tina (anne) did you change the buttons to two across last night Tina? (Tina) yes (ingo) they look better this way (anne) great, i think it is better (shadrak) I don't have any good suggestions about how to display the link to feedback other than it's to easy to miss or ignore thw way it is now. (anne) how about we make a menu item on index.html at least under the buttons (ingo) would you get better results if the feeback link were at each topic (shadrak) Why not make it a button? (shadrak) dunno ingo. (anne) i changed the first section to which sections were the most interestin g (shadrak) hi Liz and Tina..since I don't touch type I didn't see you arrive! (Liz) the button can be an "exit" button (ingo) I would tend to respond immediatel y rather than going to a particular feedback page (Liz) that's what I was going to say, ingo (anne) how about just add feedback to each text menu then?? *** flamingo (flamingo@hd112-152.compuser ve.com) has joined #societal *** shadrak sets mode: +o flamingo (shadrak) hi flamingo (anne) hi flamingo (ingo) Hi flam ~ (flamingo) Hi everyone! (anne) we are talking about how to link the feedback form (shadrak) hi flam - ingo (flamingo) hehehe Ingo! (Liz) hi flamingo (anne) has anyone heard from e-less this weekend? (shadrak) that's ingo ~flam (shadrak) nope (ingo) picky eh (flamingo) to funny Shad (flamingo) too whoops (shadrak) I thought e-less wanted to work on government, but haven't heard from her. (anne) hmmm (ingo) I forwarded her some canadian links (anne) and she talked with ingo about something with Canadian perspective or government (flamingo) Do we have two more weeks before we have to be in a somewhat complete state (anne) should i go make feedback a text menu link guys? (Tina) what else have we got to do before we pass our homework in in April? (anne) we have til April 14th, however many weeks that is (anne) we have all the homework items done (shadrak) We are supposed to evaluate the class. (anne) chris is just adding javascript error check to form (anne) and shad, they are supposed to send a form for us to do that on (shadrak) k (anne) then homework is done, just need to keep going with content (anne) we could discuss evaluation now as to what we might want to say tho * anne asks if anyone objects to make feedback one of the text menu links, even if we do not have a button??? -) [anne] PING (Liz) that's fine, anne (Tina) mo (flamingo) I think that the course should have been a 2 part course. One part for the homework and the other part to do content. (Tina) no (ingo) We have until the 14 - shad, when will you hand the assignment in? (anne) right, i agree with that flamingo (shadrak) What do you mean by text menu link Anne? Will you add an entry to the map? (ingo) Anne, sounds ok to me let's try it and evaluate it then (anne) we could actually hand it in right now if we wanted to (anne) oh i do not think it needs to be image map (ingo) I think we still wanted to add to content, Anne (anne) we have email, goals and societal team as links too (anne) for sure we want more content (flamingo) Anne, I need this week to add more content (shadrak) Shall I hand it in. I think we're also supposed to indicate that our site is"open for business" (ingo) so I would wait. (flamingo) Please wait (anne) wait to hand it in, they know where we are (anne) even tho we are for sure open for business (ingo) I won't be available after April 9 - will be the rest of that week out of town (flamingo) Well, I have two areas that I need to input the info to on my area (shadrak) If we are adding "feedback" to each subject area, shouldn't the forms be subject specific? (anne) oh no, not another form, hahaha (ingo) could we do it like in a 'index', where it would jump directly to the appropriate feedback field (anne) i would like to keep the feedback all together in a way cause it shows us as one site (ingo) and the use the text link at the bottom of the page (shadrak) I have a more important question: how do we attract visitors to the site? (anne) guess we need to register it (Tina) we've got to advertise our site I think (anne) but i sure do not want one of those banners (Tina) you can register it with search engines (shadrak) You want to take on that assignment Tina? (Tina) sure (ingo) there are various 'what's new today etc' where you can register (ingo) a site (shadrak) I think geocities also has a registration service? (flamingo) I think that VU should push our pages too. (shadrak) How do we get them to do that f? (flamingo) Well, I know that Jean and I can push them with class 821 and we could ask Richard. (shadrak) good (flamingo) Maybe in the VU Newsletter. (Liz) \ *** ingo has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) (flamingo) I know that there were 7000 people in class 821 last session. (anne) i know leapin is making a special page to show the awards (Tina) wow *** shadrak changes topic to "comments on class 825" (anne) i think it is a great idea to send out a mailing *** shadrak sets mode: +s *** ingo (a066@dialup1.lambton.on.ca) has joined #societal (anne) but it would probably be conjunction with all of the 825 projects *** anne sets mode: +o ingo (ingo) I'm just a poor import (anne) that reminds me, we can also write something and submit it to Net Happenings -) [anne] PING (ingo) my change nick does not do what it's supposed to (shadrak) sounds better than ingo (anne) i can replace ingo with ingo when i post the log then, ok (ingo) k (ingo) isn't it supposed to be slash nick new nick (shadrak) no just slash newnick (anne) try /nick ingo *** anne is now known as ah *** ah is now known as anne (anne) yep type the / first ingo (ingo) ain't working - tells me ingo is in use - in the hall I guess (anne) i think maybe there were too many topics also (anne) i do not see a nick for ingo when i do /names (anne) needed to be almost an "intermedia te" class after beginning "html" (Tina) yes (ingo) just leave it (Tina) I just did a /who ingo and he is still connected (anne) but now i am getting the hang of tables and forms (shadrak) Isn't the new "graphics" class really the intermediate class? (anne) i tend to think that is so shadrak (shadrak) So, comment 1 is that 825 was "too much, too soon"? (flamingo) This may be true Shadrak but I was in an IRC class when the guy that is going to teach the class did a presentation and it was all on graphics. (shadrak) shoot (anne) except would we have learned as much if we had not had it this way (flamingo) I think that the homework should have been one class. (ingo) the assignments took away too much from the actual site to be built (anne) and we would have had more time to really learn what was in the challenges (anne) i always felt in such a rush (flamingo) Then we should have a class on just content. (anne) and using what we have learned (Tina) I think we felt in such a rush was becauase the lessons were so long (Tina) maybe the class should be longer than 8 weeks or split it into two classes (ingo) I think people felt they were not doing enought on the 'conten' site by spending so much time on the homework (flamingo) I agree Tina (anne) javascript, java could have been a whole separate class (flamingo) I like the concept of working in a group to complete the work. (flamingo) The group kept me focused and motivated. (shadrak) Was some of the difficulty due to technical errors by the facilitator s? (Tina) it took me a long time to get use to wokring in a group (Tina) I'm so use to working alone (anne) that for sure is the best part flamingo because everyone really shared information to teach and help others, samples of what people made gave you ideas of what to try next (ingo) I really would like to know what the dropout rate is - I think we stayed exceptionally well together :) (flamingo) The group helped me so much. I learned more than I thought that I would. (anne) a lot of the group went thru lots of team leaders and members (anne) you know, I think it helped the way this study group was posted to join in the first place by an Interest (Tina) yes (anne) some of us already had worked together, so knew that we would stick with it regardless (shadrak) We had some turnover..Stephanie , Frderik, sal. (ingo) but that's not bad, about 25% (anne) and two folks who joined and quit the next day, it is very helpful when people say right away they cannot do it (flamingo) I told Jean that I thought that groups shouldn't be formed until a few weeks into a class. (anne) we really were lucky with this group tho (shadrak) Personally, I think that without a content "goal", we would not have the same team nor would we have accomplished as much. (anne) i think you are probably right shadrak (flamingo) I agree Shadrak (ingo) the early focus was very important (anne) we already knew the suggestion to post a study group by interest, but people how signed up and did not have the VU 821 class discussion the term before, did not realize that (shadrak) I am alos amazed that you working people got so much done! (anne) who (anne) i still have not had time to do content, as so much spent on challenges and organizing (shadrak) all a ya *** e-less (ann@206.123.6.197) has joined #societal *** shadrak sets mode: +o e-less (shadrak) hi e-less (anne) and trying to squeeze in "work" (anne) hi e-less (shadrak) Yeah, but waht a great organizer! (Liz) hi e-less (flamingo) I think that Leapin and Ghatten learned a lot about how the class should be run next time. They need to be given honest ideas. (flamingo) Hi e-less (e-less) hi everyone - wow shadrak is fast (ingo) Hi E-less (e-less) ingo - is that you ingo? (shadrak) That's automatic e-less. Done by an "event handler" in mIRC (ingo) that's my alter - ego, Ann (shadrak) Alterd ego? (e-less) ahw - and I thought it was 'cause you're so good (shadrak) But I'm that too! (e-less) I know (ingo) the server thinks there are too many ingos around (shadrak) A lot of people agree ingo! (ingo) shad, what are you doing to me (anne) tina, now that you have gotten used to working in a group, how do you feel about it? (flamingo) Hey ingo, maybe I need to remove the ingo from my name! (shadrak) Why do you come thru as ingo from time to time? (ingo) I thought it's your doing (Tina) anne, it's ok (anne) ok does not sound too enthuiastic (Tina) lol (Tina) sorry, I'm tired (Tina) I just got home from work 1/2 hr ago (e-less) Tina, I hope you don't mind - but I copied your java script routine - with the drop down list for one of my pages at work - thanks (Tina) e-less, that's fine, it's not mine ;) I copied it from somewhere else (shadrak) Thieves' Den? (e-less) I know - but it was easier to copy from you - 'cause It was working and I could understand it (anne) i love the buttons on the survivor's page (Tina) thanks (Liz) I am going to have to depart, guys. My husband needs the computer to finishes several papers he has due for his classes tomorrow. (shadrak) you're welcome (anne) nite liz (flamingo) I'm impressed with all of the pages. :-) (ingo) see yea liz (shadrak) nite liz (anne) me too flamingo (flamingo) Seeya liz (e-less) bye liz (Liz) see ya *** Liz (locuse@customs32.ipass.net) has left #societal (shadrak) e-less, were you going to review the UN site? (anne) i am so happy I do not have to share a computer (e-less) I'm sorry I haven't done much lately - It's been really hectic - big project coming up this week (flamingo) Me too, anne (e-less) yes - shadrak - if it can wait 'till this weekend (shadrak) no problem . (ingo) anne, I'm ok with the computer - it's the darn fony lines that my kids want (e-less) we lost our sever at work too and I also have to share computer with husband (anne) you should put them to work so they can pay for an extra phone line (flamingo) We have two computers and two phone lines. :-) (e-less) us too - but hubby hogs both (shadrak) Rich people in Florida! (shadrak) and Canada (ingo) no, we work it out - somewhat (e-less) Anne - thanks for changing all of my links - I really appreciated it (Tina) well guys I'm beat, I'm gonna go (anne) look whose talking, shad has two phone lines too (flamingo) Seeya Tina (Tina) talk to you all in email *** Tina (tatyana@stjhts03c03.nbnet.nb.ca ) has left #societal (ingo) see yea tina (anne) e-less you are welcome, but it would help if you email us quickly when you are busy (e-less) bye Tina - your butuons are greaaeeerat (anne) i did not know whether to go ahead or not (flamingo) Shad, not I, I'm a teacher (shadrak) but only one 'puter and it's not even a pentium! (anne) like i knew ingo was out of town, so did not expect to hear from him (e-less) Anne - I didn't see your messages until a day later - but you're right I should have replied - it's hard to log on from home though (anne) ok (shadrak) Will someone volunteer to summarize our comments about the class and add theat to lesson 8? (e-less) I did manage to change teh pointer on the people.html page to my bio not to my index page which is still ratehr bare (shadrak) them (anne) then we can add more when we get the form from ghatten and leapin to evaluate and put stuff in the right places (ingo) shad, do you want to wait for the 'official feedback form from VU before we start that (shadrak) She even types "teh" in rather!! (anne) I will post the log as soon we get off tonight, so people can see what we discussed (shadrak) Forgot about that ingo. Let's wait. (e-less) I think it's aleft brain right brain thing (anne) I will label the log as Evaluation so we do not lose which meeting we discussed it (ingo) why don't we spend the next week on content and finishing touches and then we still have a week or so for thre feeback (ingo) feedback (flamingo) Sounds good to me (e-less) brb (anne) oh i thought of one more suggestion... the challenges were sometimes too specific for where it said to have the information (shadrak) Sounds good to me sl.. er ingo (anne) the last assignment gave more flexibility in how and what to d (anne) add (shadrak) I hated that word "challenges"! (anne) what would be a better word to use? (ingo) Ont thing what I found very strange, in the html versions of the assignments - why couldn't they properly 'index' the sites sites they referred to as links (shadrak) homework or assingment (flamingo) I think that it would have been good to have the graphics course and class 821 as requirements to take class 825 and then 825 should be a content class * anne says we sure did rise to the challenges tho (anne) ingo, we were lucky that we even got what they did (anne) this really was an extra class that leapin twisted ghatten's to do (shadrak) But if it were just content, why have a class? (anne) if it is offered again, someone might do the lessons in html (e-less) I didn't mind challenges - better than tasks - it's you guys who really made the class though (flamingo) Shad, to have a group work on a specific content/ idea (shadrak) But what would the facilitators do? (anne) I guess I am still more interested in learning how to do stuff than ideas for content (e-less) me too Anne - for content I have work (flamingo) Hmmmm, facilitate... I guess... help if people ran into problems. (shadrak) me too anne. I just need a vehicle for learning/ (e-less) Explain things a bit more (ingo) guess it was said before - excellent exercise for team building (flamingo) Yes, ingo (anne) shadrak, that was the big complaint from the summer class that was creating the Ultimate Web Site... they did not get any feedback and got frustrated (ingo) not to well organized fo 'learning new subject matters from a facilitator (anne) and it keeps you focused to try stuff (e-less) feedback from whom? (shadrak) Makes sense to me anne (anne) the instructor for it e-less (e-less) oh - maybe instructors should work a little harder (anne) it is good we had folks who knew some of the areas and that everyone was not a beginnner (e-less) yeah - if we'd all been like me we would have been badly lost (shadrak) Anything else? Think I'll call it a nite. (ingo) I am not sure how far the instructors are volunteers with day jobs as well (e-less) what's zdu? (anne) Maybe we were more independent than some of the other groups as we could usually answer questions within the group (anne) I think both instructor's got lots of email from the other groups (flamingo) http://www.zdu.com/ It is another place to take classes. (anne) for sure they both have regular jobs during the day, both of them ingo (e-less) gee thanks - I'll check it out - for my training page at work (ingo) flam, I think that's one thing that was missing - feedback to the assignments (flamingo) They got lots of mail from the other groups. (e-less) but there must be something special to being an instructort at VU (anne) flamingo, was it on how to do stuff like for the challenges (ingo) maybe active attendance at group meetings (flamingo) Ingo, the feedback has been wonderful at ZDU. I have had much pages reviewed twice in 4 weeks. (anne) we did get some good tips from the group meetings (anne) but a lot of it was spent just getting folks connected (flamingo) whoops my (flamingo) Anne, the reviews are on everything from layout to the design of the graphics. (ingo) that's why I suggested active attendance in the individual group meetings (anne) oh you mean the study group meetings (ingo) yes (flamingo) I agree ingo (anne) we have been active, haha (flamingo) I think our group has been very active. (ingo) no, I know we have been darn active - But I'm talking about the facilitators (ingo) what was the suggested time involvement (anne) ingo, that is what they hoped to do with the big meeting (ingo) I often surpassed that in on day (anne) ghatten taught another class that had two online meetings a week (anne) they did not offer it as a class to teach people how (shadrak) nite folks. (flamingo) Most other online classes only offer every other week irc meetings for 1 hour. (anne) i think people came with different expectations for it (ingo) but the large meetings were a lot of chit-chat (?) (flamingo) seeya shad (ini) nite shad (anne) nite shad * shadrak says TTYL *** shadrak (irwin@irwin.pacificnet.net) has left #societal (ingo) and some people never opened their mouth or did not get their answers answered (anne) I think it is hard when everyone has different things they need to learn about (anne) it is basic for some, but others need the beginning parts to make sense of it (flamingo) Ingo, the online class meetings for Class 821 are very different. (anne) flamingos graphics class is a vey specific focus (flamingo) Anne, that class only had one online class on irc. (anne) then you are doing more reading and lessons and looking at websites to do stuff???Back to log listyes, anne.... and getting input from classmates. (anne) but what helps me understand and actually do is participating with a study group (flamingo) I agree anne (anne) and wishing i had more time (anne) it is hard for me to get a better balance (flamingo) I know anne. I need more time too. (anne) flamingo, i am sure that it really helped to have you assist on irc *** ingo (a066@dialup1.lambton.on.ca) has joined #societal (anne) and now you are helping instruct the next (anne) ingo (anne) hahaha you are here (flamingo) Anne, I learned so much by helping on class 821 (anne) oh that is great (ingo) now I am rally in my aler ego *** anne sets mode: +o ingo (flamingo) It is amazing how much you learn when you have to help others (ingo) I am getting everythin doubled (anne) ingo (anne) why don';t you have ingo part then (ingo) let me get out of here -I'm running nuts (ingo) see you in a few minutes *** ingo (a066@dialup1.lambton.on.ca) has left #societal (flamingo) k (anne) k (ingo) maybe it's better now (flamingo) Anne, what have you decided to take next session (ini) looks like I'm alone - at last (anne) i signed up for the graphics class flamingo (flamingo) Is that all, anne (anne) i am not taking that other one we talked about (ingo) let me try to get rid of ini (flamingo) me either (flamingo) I'm taking the graphics class and the second irc class (anne) oh how are you connecting so many times ingo (ingo) Is anybody of you taking the 828 (flamingo) Not I, ingo (anne) i am not either ingo (ingo) don't ask my I don't understand it neither (ingo) I am still tempted (flamingo) Anne, you should take the graphics class with ZDU (anne) oh for sure i will take it flamingo (anne) maybe it is offered this summer (ingo) flam, what's the url for zdu (anne) or when is the next term starting, do you know? (flamingo) Yes, it will be offered again in 4 weeks (flamingo) http://www.zdu.com/ (ingo) thanx (anne) you had some good photography to use for the lessons (flamingo) It starts slow but gets really busy by the 3rd week. (flamingo) Thanks (anne) i would need to hustle to learn our scanner at work (flamingo) I just got done making an Image Map for this week's assignment (anne) it has been ages since i took photos (anne) oh great flamingo, is it linked to your stuff (anne) hahaha eless (flamingo) http://www.oocities.org/Athen s/Acropolis/6729/lesson6.htm (anne) that will make no sense to you at all i bet (anne) thanks (e-less) is the pace as hectic as here? (anne) that is neat flamingo, your image map (anne) just like e-less, you asked a question about target way back, (anne) but no one had a chance to answer it as related to frames (anne) frames are a whole lesson too (e-less) yes - I guess it was too stupid - but some of my editors refer to links as targets (anne) but there are several good online tutorials for it (flamingo) I have had to fine tune my coding skills with this graphics course (e-less) - I think I could do frames - it jsut went by too fast (anne) it was not a stupid (anne) i agree about the too fast (e-less) for me - it was a whole lot of different things at once - mainly learning new tools and ways of working - I think it was probably too advanced for me (anne) you know, isn't that almost too much for a beginning class (e-less) but on teh other hand the beginner's sounded too beginning (anne) i guess that is what we wanted to know about we got started on our web pages tho (e-less) maybe the new class would be jst right (flamingo) The feedback from the last class was that they wanted it (anne) take class 821 for sure e-less (anne) you have a head start for it and it will make you start your web page too (e-less) I thouhg I might take this one again - and the graphic class too (flamingo) I would take 821 too if I wasn't helping teach it... ;-) (anne) this class is not being offered e-less (anne) take 821 (anne) and forget the editor, haha (e-less) yes - you're right - (e-less) no don't take away my editor - how woud I do tables? (anne) i cannot believe that your editor even added percentages between the group email addresses (e-less) I wonder why it did that - just like it always persisted in changing my pixels to %s (anne) that was very strange (flamingo) I hate editors (anne) anyway, it is still easier to work with a file that you have started to know what is going on (flamingo) I have been learning how to use several of them for a night class that I'm going to be teaching (anne) oh wow (anne) let me know if you find one you like (e-less) I think I learned how to check on my editors - but it still is more work to type in [or mistype] all those codes (flamingo) Pagemill, ClarisHome Page, Front Page, Netscape (e-less) I try to use front page - flam - but it is very difficult to change the URLS (anne) i would not mind being able to have links more automatically done in an editor (ingo) actually HomeSite is quite a good editor (e-less) it has it's own idea of where pages should go (anne) oh that is for win95 tho (flamingo) Anne, Pagemill has a free beta version of their 2.0 and it is pretty good. It is scary what it can do. (anne) hahahah e-less, it sure did (e-less) I hated teh homesites editor (ingo) sorry, Anne, forgot again (e-less) where can you get the pagemill editor? (flamingo) http://www.adobe.com (anne) k thnks (e-less) I like most adobe things - I don't seem to quite have the microsoft mindset (e-less) thanks (anne) well guys am gonna take off (anne) ingo (flamingo) I saw a presentation on the Pagemill product and was shocked at what it can do. (ingo) just to be sure - you asked for it :) (anne) here is where i started the links tho (flamingo) Seeya anne (ingo) yea anne (anne) http://www.wwnet.com/~ahartman/edf actor.html (flamingo) I'm going to go too (e-less) thanks Anne- good night (anne) i will try to split them (anne) nite (ingo) see yea flamingo (ingo) k, I'll get back to uyou anne (flamingo) Good night all (anne) and post it (anne) bye Session Close: Mon Mar 24 22:06:55 1997
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