Log # 2 -
Societal Group: Feb 5, 1997 on challenges Lesson 3
The image map is needed to provide
consistency on the main pages.
The profiles image is chosen as the logo.
(shadrak) Tina, feel like making four
"pictures" to replace my "color
coded" image map?
(Tina) sure, four pictures of what
(shadrak) One each representing health,
government, education, and Survivors
of Violence. It's a test of your
imagination!
(shadrak) They should be 100x100 and
grouped into a 200x200 square.
(Tina) ok
(ingo) ok, but are we maintaining one
commom image for societal
(anne) yes i like that idea ;)
(Sal) and that is the profiles?
(ck) I vote yes
(Sal) i like that too...we need some
sort of continuity...
* flamingo says please clearify what we
are talking about?
(Tina) I don't know either
(Sal) i really prefer not doing that...
(ck) Sal, if we use the same image, the
browser will not reload it every time
(anne) i think we should each have it on
whatever ISP we are doing on our pages
(Sal) right, anne...me too....
(ck) Ok, i withdraw the suggestion
* flamingo says HELLO... what are we
talking about!
(ck) two things, the profiles image and
an image map that tina is going to
make
(anne) but it it takes to long, then we
can change it, flamingo chris is
talking about where you get the image
from for the profile
(Sal) those who don't have a prob with
that can feel free, but i just prefer
having all on my site....
(ck) the image map will be like the one
on excite.com
* ck withdraws the suggestion...
(flamingo) Why would we need both the
image that Tina has already made and
then another link image???
* ck has changed her mind
(ck) flamingo, did you go to www.excite.c
om ?
(anne) you know, that is a good point
flamingo
*** shadaway is now known as shadrak
(ck) OIC, you are right flamingo
(flamingo) Yes, I did chris but we don't
need both
(shadrak) I've been reading to catch up
and was about to ask the same
question that Flamingo just posed.
(Tina) the image I put up because it was
said in a message a few weeks ago
that we should have an image on all
our pages so our visitors would know
when they left our pages and returned
(shadrak) The image map does the same
thing
(ck) But if you do the image map, tina,
it serves the same purpose (and
provides links to all other topics to
boot)
Graphics should load ideally in 1/2 minute. Anything longer than 1 minute is too big!
(flamingo) I like graphics but they must
load within 1 minute or I click off
of the page.
(flamingo) Working with teens and
children... you must have nice
graphics to interest them in looking
at the page.
(shadrak) flamingo, don't you have to
balance that with load time? BTW I
think 2 minutes is WAY too long.
(ck) looks great Anne
(ck) No more than 1 minute, optimum 1/2
minute
(ck) No more than 1 minute, optimum 1/2
minute
(flamingo) I agree that 2 minutes is too
long to load a page... and yes there
must be a balance of text and
graphics... but the kids won't go to
a page with mostly text.
(ck) Sal, if you use icons and jpegs
with good compression rates, there is
no reason why you can't have lots of
graphics and a good load lime
(Tina1) teens and kids are impatient but
if there is not flash and cool
graphics ona page, they're more then
likely not to visit it
(Sal) they are...but just from the
younger ones who happen into
campus-lounge, i think that for
graphics they tarry...
...
...(ck) Ingo, is the background gif or
jpeg,, if jpeg you can probably
reduce that size
(Sal) really??? don't you have little
tiny lines?
(anne) nope
(ck) under my eyes, sal
(anne) i kept looking back and forth
last nite after you said that
(anne) in MSIE and NS to see the
difference, there really were no
differences, ugly background in both
of them ;(
(ingo) it's a gif
(Sal) wow...that's strange...
(ingo) but icould change it into a jpg
and try the smaller size
(Sal) because in win95 that green has a
bunch of tiny lines in ns
(anne) oh i am not higher resolution, so
that is probly why sal
(ck) With jpegs you can change the
compression %, you loose a lot but
with most browsers, they won't notice
(anne) ingo, i still think we should go
with a different color tho
Sal likes tiny, fast loading ones or big ones with very little color depth. Graphics should be appropriate to the audience. Teens need lots of cool graphics while government does not.
(flamingo) IMHO, I think that the amount
of graphics on a page will depend on
the target group.
(flamingo) But Shad, I think that
someone that is going to a government
page is looking more for text and
info... So it depends on the target
audience.
(ck) True, the health one should have
minimal graphics
(flamingo) Yes, and a page that has a
target group of young teens and
children will need more.
Logo should be at top left unless needed elsewhere for balance. Navigation bar
both top & bottom are great but top is really optional. Conformity is nice but there are exceptions.
(shadrak) Yeah, I like the top bar.
Ought to put it in a frame though :)
(anne) NOOOOOOO
(ck) lol shad
(Tina) ack
(Tina) frames :b
(anne) and i HATE the new geocities
frames
(Sal) plot of the ol' devil, shad!
(ck) They also put the same graphic at
the bottom of the page, it doesn't
take any extra time to double load a
graphic.
(anne) we would each put the top bar on
each of our pages if that is navigation
tool we decide
(ck) If a page is a reasonable size, the
'linking' graphic is always in reach
(shadrak) Problem is, it disappears when
you go off site.
(Sal) i like bottom!!! why scroll back
up to navigate?
(Tina) what about having a set on the
top and bottom
(anne) but shad, it is very irritating
in MSIE not to be able to bookmark
ANYTHING or see the source for frames
(ck) I always appreciate it when there
are links at top and bottom of page
(anne) and look how sal did her online
refrigerator links at the bottom, very
easy to see where you are
(shadrak) I always hate it when there
are no links on top or bottom.
* flamingo says What will happen if
the link graphics won't show up on all
of our pages?
(ck) I have seen sites where they place
text links under the graphics, just
in case someone doesn't load the
graphic
(ck) I like the profiles image and will
probably put it on my page, even if
it is not a link
(anne) me too chris
(flamingo) For my pages it will take
away by having them both.
(shadrak) Give me a url to link the
profile image.
(anne) it is at geocities societal now
shad
(anne) i uploaded it there, and you can
copy my line from bios page
(anne) my bio
(anne) i put it on the left, tina had it
on the right
(anne) which side is better???
(shadrak) Is that where it will be
maintained?
* anne asks again, should the societal
log be on the left or the right side?
(anne) logo icon i meant
(flamingo) I'm flexible
(Tina) it doesn't matter
(Sal) what about top right and bottom
left?
(anne) but we want people to use the
same scheme when they link back to
main page
(shadrak) Wherever it balances on your
page
(ingo) I prefer left but I'm flexible
(flamingo) I agree shad
(ingo) because you start reading at the
left
(anne) and most of the menus to go back
are on the left side too...
...
...(ck) did you all decide on right or left
for the icon
(anne) and DE also sent it to us in email
(anne) it will be the left chris
(anne) unless it needs to be somewhere
else to balance a page
(anne) the way i did it on my bio,
unless you have another idea
(anne) i had to use (br clear=all) or it
bumps into the title
(ck) no, I think the way you did it is
fine
(ck) who is DE?
(anne) downeast, paul in bracketeers
study group
(ck) oh
(ingo) Anne, adding the button may cause
some 'imballance' of the klimt page
(anne) oh right ingo
(ck) button? klimt?
(ingo) we were talking about using
tina's button as a common identifyer
on each page - left
(ck) Yes, that could throw things off,
but if you put it at the very bottom
....
(ingo) we were just talking about
conformity
(ck) both top & bottom are great but top
is really optional cause most people
don't link till they are done reading
and are at the bottom. Conformity is
nice but there are always need for
exceptions
Merits of various sites were discussed.
(shadrak) Any sites where you hate the
graphics?
(anne) geocities, new street map
(shadrak) I used to hate them on
leapin's site, but I guess we can't
use that as an example
(Sal) AMEN!!!
(Sal) has everyone written them???
(Sal) oh, don't know about leapins...talk
ing about geo
(anne) there are way to way many
graphics on that racer rad's homepage
from class 821 links
(anne) consider the log edited from the
line about leapin LOL
(Sal) hahaha...i have never been there
because of the warnings i've seen
that it's graphics intensive!
(Sal) hahaha
(shadrak) I hate to use sites that are
advertising as bad examples; they're
trying to make money and that's
grubby work at best.
(Sal) i hate the sites that have lots of
advertising...
(shadrak) anne, do you have a URL?
(Sal) and try not to ever click on one
of their ads..have done it only 2 or
3 times....
(anne) you mean to geoscities shad
(shadrak) to the bad graphics example.
(anne) brb
(anne) http://members.tripod.com/~racerad
/index.html
(anne) he has taken a lot of them off
his main page now
(anne) i hate that a lot have those link
exchange and other banners at the top
instead of the bottom of pages, really
ruins TXJunes
(anne) i think we should cite hers as a
good example of use of graphics tho as
I really like it
(Tina) I like TheCase sight, it's very
clean and and small graphics load
fast, looks good
(anne) we cannot use racerrads as an
example any more shadra
(shadrak) URL Tina?
(Tina) http://www.thecase.com/thecase/
(Sal) hey, shad, they have a noframes
version! how nice!
(Sal) do y'all understand why people use
those banners? what's the point...i
know it's to increase traffic, but
does the number of hits REALLY matter
that much? i don't see this as a
competition...
(Tina) it has a very cool image map
(Tina) sal me too
(anne) flamingo, let's put that flamingo
site down just for fun ;)
(shadrak) The American Museum of Natural
History has a gret interface via
graphics. It takes a while to load.
(shadrak) The WWW site is http://www.amnh
.org/
(shadrak) They seem to be using JAVA in
lieu of image maps.
*** flamingo has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
(shadrak) I would put this on the list
of "good graphics" except for its
slowness.
(anne) i love the thinking fountain url,
my favorite and it is an image map too
(Tina) the thinkingfountain one
(Tina) the image map is too big though
(Tina) 153K takes a long time to load
(Tina) esp on a 14.4 modem
(anne) can we put that as a comment
then, but still list it?
We need to accommodate different browsers to make sure the links can be followed.
* flamingo says What will happen if
the link graphics won't show up on all
of our pages?
(ck) I have seen sites where they place
text links under the graphics, just
in case someone doesn't load the
graphic
(anne) oh that is a good question
(Sal) doesn't survivor's need to be
survivors?
(anne) we should have both
(ck) like this "|health|government|"
(Sal) wouldn't alt tags work?
(Tina) not really
(Sal) k
(Tina) some graphics are so small, that
you can't read what the alt tag is
(Sal) that's true...
(anne) tina, i agree with you on that too
(ck) alt tags wouldn't help with an
image map
(Sal) ooooh...hadn't thought about that!
Pages will have text and link colours as a common theme but no background or color constraints.
(shadrak) It's item 3 of challenge 4
that Anne is talking about.
(shadrak) Color related issues to me can
range from "Can I read it? to Do I
like or hate it (Taste issue)?
(anne) what about this question on
looking for graphics for the page?
(Sal) i really hate that it didn't...it's
less than 2k
(anne) tina, the white.jpg you used
shows text very well
(anne) ingo, that papery.gif you used is
HUGE
(Tina) anne, yes I like it
(anne) and flamingo's slide show is
effective with her gray canvass.gif
(ingo) I know, I need to change it to
s.th. simpler
(Tina) anne, and the white.jpg is only 2
kb
(Sal) ingo, what's your url?
(anne) but we can use different
backgrounds as examples in the
graphics lesson 3
(anne) sal, it is the same background as
for the education section
(Tina) the thing is
(Sal) k
(Tina) I'd like to have a background
picked that we're going to use
(Tina) for our homepage
(Tina) it would be easier when making
graphics
(anne) that is true tina
(Tina) to know what colours to use
(ck) I like the white jpeg too
(ingo) Sal it's http://www.oocities.org
/Paris/LeftBank/3964/klimt.htm
(anne) then we can do more with
different colors too if used the white
* flamingo says that I have picked out
my background already
(anne) i love the taupe one, but the
white is probably better for variety
(Tina) are we going to use different
backgrounds for all the pages?
(Sal) thanks
(shadrak) you're welcome
(anne) flamingo, we said that the
audience influences choice of
graphics, so could apply to background
in your case too
(flamingo) I agree
(anne) and i liked chris' color for
health
(ingo) White might be a more neutral
background for contrasts
(Sal) i really think we need some
consistency...
(flamingo) My background works for my
pages but would NEVER work for the
other pages
(anne) if some use a different color or
background, should blend
(anne) right i agree flamingo
(Sal) after all, this is a site...not a
collection...
(Sal) i prefer something a little less
stark than white, ingo...white tends
to glare for me...
(Sal) that's true, cynthia...
(flamingo) I think that each person
should be able to pick what they like
on their own pages
(ck) Wouldn;t the common image help tie
things together (sorry, I know I have
missed a lot)
(Sal) it would to a degree, but i think
that a color family, at least should
be adhered to...
(anne) sal, did tina's background glare
for you tho, that is softer than using
bgcolor=white
(anne) look at sal's first aid article
too
(Sal) gee...will have to go look...
(anne) hers is kind of a taupe gray
* flamingo says I am NOT flexible on
changing my background Sorry!
(anne) flaming, that is fine!!!!
(ck) I liked the taupe gray too
(anne) your article is different, will
make a statement that teens are
different too
(anne) i am still not quite sold on the
shade of navy for the text to read it
easily sal
(anne) i can see text much better on the
white.jpg
(Sal) i just never use white, even here
on the puter...
(Sal) hahaha
(ck) flamingo, what is your url
(Sal) geee....what colors do we have to
pick from in it, cynthia?
(ck) I vote no background or color
constraints
(anne) but if we can, i think text
color, or link colors should be similar
(flamingo) Ok, this is getting frustratin
g...
(shadrak) I'm with Chris..no group
restrictions, but attrention to group
criticism
(Tina-) well that will be kind of hard
anne...
....
(anne) chris, i hope the colors of the
different sections will blend tho
(anne) oh you could chris
(Sal) that's what kinda scares me about
this...
(anne) sal, nice background on your
test.html for the store
(Sal) that it's going to look like a
crazy quilt instead of a unit...
(Sal) thanks, anne...
(ck) A blue theme would be nice, except
for flamingo's of course
(Sal) right...
(Sal) but shad hates blue
(ck) isn't he color blind?
(Sal) don't think so...
(Sal) but not sure...
(anne) no, glaucoma, chris, and was
crosseyed as a kid
(ck) how about taupe?
(anne) the taupe and blue could be
different parts
(Sal) i like it ok as long as i don't
have to wear it...and it is easy on
the eyes...
(Sal) hahaha
(anne) and that white.jpg was nice...
...
...chris, i liked your aqua with the
taupe main page
(Sal) anne, that looked pink to me...
(ck) I prefer to not have background
because I have to do more work with
backgrounds to make everything
readable...but backgrounds do give
character
(anne) which was pink sal?
(Sal) i did like that, too, chris
(Sal) that white jpg
(ini) NO PINK please
(ck) Sal did the taupe
(anne) sal, what color is the main
health page that chris did in your
monitor
(anne) sal is in charge of talking
shadrak into whatever we think will
blend ;)
(Sal) right...i'm with u most of the
time on the pink, ingo
(Sal) chris, i don't like backgrounds
either...i think they detract most of
the time, if any content whatsoever
is there...
(ck) pink is not a soothing color, taupe
is, blue is, muted colors are
(ck) But flamingo's front page is
effective for her audience.
(Sal) right...greens are...
(ck) springy?
(Sal) right....we might want to post a
warning!
(Sal) hahaha....was thinking soothing...b
ut of course, i like the teals and
that family...
...
...(ingo) I hdin't think my no pink was
that offensive
(anne) LOL ingo
(Sal) a rather light teal
(ck) lol ingo
(anne) i like the teals too, but the
logo icon is the blues already
(Sal) anne, i couldn't believe that he
changed the background on his govt
page when i told him it was hard on
my eyes!
(ck) that can be changed
(ck) the color of the logo I mean
(anne) oh i am sorry the white.jpg looks
pink
(Sal) does it not to you?
(anne) as text is good on that
(anne) nope, not to me
(Sal) right, the texture isn't very
pronounced...
(anne) and in MSIE, your cream background
is definitely yellow to me for
infosources
(anne) ingo, the text shows up well on
the papery.gif you used
(ck) MSIE really messes things up
(anne) but way too big, and will need to
get a different color too
(Sal) isn't that funny, how the color
temperatures of monitors are
different...
(anne) i also have a bad monitor for
colors too
Theme elements
(Tina-) I mean what looks good on one
background may not look good on
another background
(anne) that is true too tina
(flamingo) I agree Tina
(ck) I think a common image at the top
and (perhaps) a link graphic to other
topics suffices
(anne) teen article is there
(Sal) that bg on tina's page is easier
than a bright white..
(anne) let's agree on a background for
our front page then
(Tina-) well we don't even have a front
page
(anne) did everyone see the backgrounds
we have tried from my link
(Tina-) yes I did
(flamingo) Ahhhh, I'm flexible on the
front page background
(ck) We wil tina
(anne) i know tina, but you said you
wanted to make graphics and know the color
(Tina-) that's true
(Tina-) hmmm
(anne) and for an image map, need to
figure out colors too
* ck thinks flamingo's background fits
well with her theme
(Sal) i am fairly flexible, but heavily
textured bgs are really difficult for
me to read on....
(Tina-) diff backgrounds is another
strike against image maps on all the
pages
(flamingo) thanks chris
(ck) Tina, if you don't shadow the words
and you make it transparent, it
should work on most backgrounds
(ck) But perhaps we only put that image
map on our FRONT page...
...
...(Sal) we just need some sort of unifying
of all these different ways we are
headed...and just an icon won't do
it...
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