Log # 4 - Societal Group:
Feb, 17 1997
Consensus achieved via e-mail re music
before meeting: One subject is "Use of sound"
and the group decides not to have music on
page.
(shadrak)
I'll start it off by saying that, with
rare exception, I object to use of sound
(especially loud sound) that I can't turn off.
(Tina) There should be a choice whether to turn it on
and also a way to turn it off
***It is well documented that Sal browses with her
speakers turned OFF.
...
...(sal) do we really need music for this
page? it seems kinda...frivolous....
(ck) sound, for sounds sake, is just a
gimic, and really doesn't belong on
our main page
(sal) right...
) here we go again, lol
) k and we have the version of music on
our working page to show how to do it
) that is fine with me
The need for testing with different
screen resolutions is discussed.
(flamingo) How do you do a page and
worry about the different size
screens?
(shadrak) Since I have only one size
myself, there isn't much I can do in
the way of testing.
) what i am reading is that some prepare
theirs for 600 x 800 and then check to
see how it looks in other
(Tina) well it's a bit hard, that's why
when I use tables, for width I use
percents because the table will
shrink with the screen size as a %
but as a solid # like width=400 if I
look at a large resolution, it'll
stop at 400 and leave blank white
space the rest of the way
) there is a utility in those tutorials
that sal sent us that has a resolution
checker utility
(shadrak) I think we are confusing two
issues: (1) screen size (2) resolution
.
(sal) arghhhh!
) i have 14" for that 680 resolution
(sal) that's ok, cynthia...i'm not a
teen! ;-)
(Tina) anne I do also but I can change
it to 800 resolution and I can get
more on a page
(flamingo) too funny sal... ;-)
(Tina) but for design purposes I leave
it at 680 and go back and forth to
check
) oh my monitor goes into fits when i
change it tina
(ingo) sounds familiar, Anne
) gotta call on my other monitor
(shadrak) Flamingo's problem seems to be
related to size, independent of
resolution, if I undersatnd her
correctly.
) when i look at flamingo's teen
concerns title, i have to scroll a bit
to get the end of it in my monitor
(flamingo) I'm not worried about having
to scroll but I am worried about the
text going over my line border.
...
(Tina) flamingo, what about making the
border a bit smaller, not make it so
wide?
(flamingo) I thought about that . Do you
think that will take care of the
problem?
(Tina) don't know
(Ghatten) hi
) flamingo, how about also trying hard
spaces if you need to for certain
lines or chris' single pixel info
(sal) it might...it's a shame for some
of the text to be offscreen...
(Tina) but you might also try this...
(table border=0 width=100%)
(ck) cynthia, are you using the (center)
tag?
(Tina) sometimes I have to put the
width=100% there before I split it up
in the TD's
(ingo) flamingo, you got the same
problem Shad had, try it MSIE and it
looks fine
(flamingo) I'll try that Tina
) nothing scrolls off the screen for me
flamingo, but the top title does bump
into the background bricks on the left
(sal) but the text runs off the browser
in msie, ingo
(shadrak) Different problem Ingo..she
bleeds in 4.0
(flamingo) On my 15" monitor it looks
fine, but on the 14" monitor the text
is on the border.
(sal) hmmm...and there is a huge white
space in msie...
) it is there then
(Liz) on my 17in the text is also in the
border
(ck) anne, for me it is the "because"
sentence....
) be of because is on the bricks, the
rest wraps and is centered
the other thing i am wondering about
in the tables, where ingo has added an
extra (tr) gets space between things,
but showed up in a validator as extra
open table row tags
(flamingo) So, what is the answer for
how I can fix this? Any ideas?
-) [anne] PING
(ck) I think it has more to do with the
width of the window ... what the user
sets
(ck) You have no control over what width
the user sets the window to
(shadrak) Flaming. I had to make the
left column an ABSOLUTE rather than a
percent to keep from bleeding in
smaller windows.
(sal) now, in anger5, the text is over
the bricks...
(shadrak) Not quite. That had to do
with a "bug" in NS 3 that requires
handling. But as long as you express
the left column width as a percent,
you have the potential to bleed when
people use small windows.
(shadrak) The ABSOLUTE width should
correspond roughly with the width of
your border.
(flamingo) Ok, shad
(e-less) so ingo - you see it ?
(ingo) yes
) that is right shad, you said it worked
better with pixel number than
percentage
(shadrak) But then you'll need my
JavaScript to make it look right in
earlier (than 4) versions of NS
We should use the image map on the main
page but can add text links if we like.
Everyone can choose their own background
for their page. Choice of color should be
for consistency but not be restrictive.
The logo can also be used somehow.
(Tina) instead of a mpa, why don't we
just use the test
(Tina) test [text]
(e-less) if ourt site ius aied at people
who have trouble accessing - they
probvably don't have all the latest
higfh tech stuff notr do they want it
) text
(Tina) on the survivor's page, I just
used the text at the top and bottom,
not the map
(shadrak) I agree about no sound on the
main page.
(sal) right, eless
) interesting tho that lynx can see the
links with an image map
(flamingo) The text may not show up on
my main page.
(e-less) I think no music - keep it
simple - think about some homeless
person in a library - does not want
to hear music
(sal) the new one, anne?
(shadrak) Use a top frame flamingo but
don't tell sal.
(ck) good point e-less
(shadrak) So did we decide on no map,
but text and no logo?
) sal was getting frustrated with how
everything will fit together tho
(sal) or map, no text, and no logo...
(ck) no logo????
(sal) i still am...
) i think the logo identifies it as
societal
(ck) map and text
(sal) it is totally incoherent to me
) can be a button to link home, or just
a logo
(ck) map and logo are redundant, one or
the other will do
) i agree ck,
) if the image map fits better on
someones page than text, could use it
(Tina) I like the logo
(shadrak) I disagree ck, map gets to all
pages, logo just goes home
(Tina) and I made it smaller
(ck) if lynx can handle map as you say,
I want to go for the map
(Tina) map will look crappy on my pages
:b
(ck) well, shad, let's put societal on
the map!!!
) ck, when you click on the image3.gif
it shows that links
(sal) how long has 2.5 been out, i
wonder...
(ingo) i agree with shad, the map is
easier for navigation to all pages
) but if we renamed it menu.gif, then
the purpose would be better shown
) ingo, the text links also go to all
the pages when you show it as a bar
) and it mite be easier to change it as
we need too
(Tina) if someone just wants to put text
links, is that ok?
(ck) hmmm, maybe after everyone picks
their colors, we can come up with a
map that works
) with inside pages like flamingo
already has, she has a link to
homepage, but needs references to
other parts of her teen concerns
(ck) I kinda liked the map that had
little gingerbread men on it that
tina did
(shadrak) The text links are adequate,
and easy to change, and work fine in
all versions of Lynx
(sal) i definitely think we need text
links if we have a map
) oh ck, i was not as fond of that one
and it mite fight with someone elses
pages
(shadrak) why sal?
(ck) but shad, when we change the gif,
only one thing to change, otherwise,
pages and pages to change when we
change a topic.
(sal) shad, i usually don't bother to
load a map...
(ck) ok anne
(shadrak) true ck.
(ck) I don't think inside pages should
have a map, just the main pages
(flamingo) I think that a main link back
to the main societal page is plenty.
) i agree with that ck
(e-less) yes - only top menu for map
(ingo) The only problem I can see with
the map is for people with boarder
gif and fitting the map onto the page
(ingo) image-3 is relatively wide
(sal) from norway?
(shadrak) Use a top frame ingo :)
(sal) tee-hee
) it fit on the border backgrounds tho
(flamingo) Ingo, did you see the smaller
version.
(Tina) I th ink image-map and text or
just text will work
(ck) I put forth a vote, 1 for image
map, 2 for text, 3 for return to
societal main page... everyone pull
their levers
(shadrak) Have we decided anything?
(ck) ok me first....3
(Tina) 2
(shadrak) 2
(ingo) 1 with or without frames :)
(flamingo) 3
(shadrak) with
(e-less) 1 - on mainpage
(sal) ?????
(Liz) 1
* anne votes 2 with option for 3
(ck) oops, forgot to put frames in the
vote
(shadrak) :(
(ck) 2 3's, 3 1
) no frames unless someone wants to use
them
(ck) two 2's
(ck) ones are leading, has everyone
voted?
(Tina) one think to remember
(Tina) everyone will probably be using
different colours on their pages
(ck) we are missing 2 votes
(shadrak) 1 or 2 is fine with me. NOT 3
(sal) no...because i've apparently
missed something...
(ingo) isn't frames a part of the next
assignment anyway
(Tina) if we use the image map, we're
going to have to find a colour that
works on all pages
) ingo, you do not have to use them
(e-less) how about frames if needed -
onlyis=f ontent would benefit from
frames we decide case by case basis -
not blanket for evermore
(ck) ones, are it unless a non-voter has
an objection
) wait how did you count that
(e-less) what was 1?
) one was image map
(Tina) 1 is the map
(ck) 1=image map
(sal) are you talking about the main
page?
(ck) anne demands a recount
) only if we be one that will work for
everyone
(sal) or what...
(Tina) no, on the main header page, we
don't need a map or anything else
) the same map in a different color
would still be consisistant
(flamingo) I agree Tina
) tina, that is what identifies it for
the other pages tho maybe
(shadrak) We're talking about everyone's
"first page" I think.
(ck) Tina, maybe we will try to redo a
map later to match colors
) oh k, first page is important
(Tina) ck, I think it'll have to be a
basic colour like black
(Tina) I mean my text is purple
(sal) shoot..i don't care...this bears
no resemblance to anything i'll ever
do, anyway...
(Tina) flamingo's is different colours
(e-less) why don't we all try what we
like - put it p and then vote?
(Tina) a transparent map would be just
like using text though
(Tina) e-less, that's a good idea
(ck) not really
) flamingo, text colors you chose as
links should show up in a text link
tho, don't you think as they have to
show up on your wall
) but actually, yours is all titles on
that page
(flamingo) I think that most dark and
bright colors will show up on my main
page.
) and education has not really decided
on a backgroun yet
) i like using a form of the button for
each section somewhere on the page too
(flamingo) Anne, there will be some
graphics there soon.
(flamingo) I have a link back to the
main Societal page on each of my
pages.
) and that seems enought flamingo
) you do not need each section as it
would be confusing
) you want them to keep reading teen
article
(flamingo) I agree
(ck) maybe we could do to, one dark
letters, one light colors but same
font
) sounds like a good compromise ck
) then folks can color harmonzie what is
best
(e-less) why not incorporate the log for
cosnistency and then use whatever
colors we like?
(e-less) log=logo
) i am not sure what we decided anyway
as we will just have to play with it
and see what works
) did everyone see that tina made a
smaller logo that mite fit better
) i renamed it to logosm.gif on homework
page
(ck) oh great
(ck) oh, gotta look
) and tina has it in survivors article
(flamingo) I think that we decided on an
image map and we can work with the
colors when everyone picks their
background for their main page.
) i am not sure what we decided anyway
as we will just have to play with it
and see what works
) did everyone see that tina made a
smaller logo that mite fit better
) i renamed it to logosm.gif on homework
page
(ck) oh great
(ck) oh, gotta look
) and tina has it in survivors article
(flamingo) I think that we decided on an
image map and we can work with the
colors when everyone picks their
background for their main page.
(flamingo) I think that everyone is
going to have different colors and
backgrounds
(e-less) whether sideways or across to
or a ssimgle image - but use it
whichever way
) sounds fine to me e-less,
(Tina) anne
(e-less) so - we agree to use logo for
stylistic consistency?
) did anyone figure out the best way to
make more spacing in the table ingo
did and what e-less used for homework
page
(flamingo) What happened to the vote for
an image map... I'm confused...
) image map goes on main pages flamingo
) which colors will be decided when we
see how to tie it together
) then on other pages from the sections,
can just have a logo to tie it together
) text links are an option to those who
want that
Back to lesson 3
This page brought to you courtesy of Geocities.