
*** Log file opened: 3/14/97 10:05:40 PM
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<Troi-> ok.. ok.. you are forgiven.. :-)
<who> STeve who?
<Troi-> Hi Carol!
Troi- sets mode: +o Sweetcake
<who> lo S:
<Sweetcake> I am going to be logging for a few.. finishing up a project that needs to get finished tonight.
<Counselor> Hi Carol
<Sweetcake> brb in a few minutes!
<Sweetcake> Hello everyone!
<RiffRaff> Steve: who.
<Troi-> k
<RiffRaff> thats who.
<who> BTW: Couns...do all my abbreviations cause u any probs?
<RiffRaff> you mean abbrevs. :)
<Counselor> No, Who, just the graphics...It was quite interesting reviewing the log from the other night when your daugheter was on..  :)
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<who> lots of black boxes...teehee
<RiffRaff> black boxes? *perk*
<Counselor> Black boxes?
<Troi-> ok.. so what about this Java Lesson..
<RiffRaff> black boxes were code words for little hacking devices for breaking into phone systems. :)
<Counselor> I thought that was blue boxes...
<Troi-> I wouldn't mind doing Challenge #5 if anyone dosen't mind
<RiffRaff> and red boxes..and gold boxes.
<RiffRaff> all kinds of boxes. :)
<RiffRaff> and every box would have a fox... and every fox would eat a lox.
<Counselor> Ok, Troi, which challenge is that?
<who> no...i thought when irc wouldn't decypher a code it printed a black box
<Counselor> No, Who, it prints the hex codes...I get a whole screen full of hex codes.  :)
<Troi-> Define and Describe... JKD AWT, IDE, API, Class File.. etc..
<RiffRaff> I know what IDE is!!!
<RiffRaff> I think...
<who> beware the IDEs of march
<RiffRaff> awww, Steve stole my joke!!
<RiffRaff> API is Associated Press Incorporated. :)
<Troi-> LOL well, we have to describe and and define these terms and put them on a page on our site.. for this assignment.. since I don't know how to code jave just yet and don't have alot of time to learn on the fly.. I think I could do this one instead for now.
<Counselor> Well, I've not gotten through all my mail, but so far no one has spoken up for that one. Carol wanted to work on challenge 3.
<RiffRaff> I still havent learned a darn thing about Java yet, but want to. :(
<Troi-> I did visit the Lake Applet.. that was way cool!
<RiffRaff> Who: Steve, I need your opinion on something...
<Counselor> I learned a little about java doing the browser identification...it looks a lot like C code...which I *can* do.  
<RiffRaff> I'm learning C right now.
<who> i'm here
<RiffRaff> who: you want to work on this when you have time?
<Sweetcake> ok I'm back..sorry I'm late.. been busy tonight.
<Troi-> no prob Carol.
<Counselor> WG, Carol.
<Counselor> I mean WB.
<who> I'm here ...brb
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<Counselor> Rif, if you need help with C just ask.
<sailorme> hi all im peeking
<Troi-> ok.. then I will take Challange #5.. consider it taken
<Counselor> Ok Troi...and Carol wanted #3.
<Sweetcake> That's OK with me.. I want to do #3!!
<Troi-> that leaves #1 #2 #4 and #6
<Sweetcake> Jeff have you heard from the others who are not here?
<Counselor> I've not gotten through all my email, but not so far.
<RiffRaff> Counselor: I'd LOVE to learn C...will you be a tutor?
<Counselor> Yes, Riff...
<RiffRaff> Troi: what are assignments 1, 2 4 and 6?
<Troi-> hang on
<Counselor> I just looked in my inbox and I don't have anything from any other class memebers.
<Troi-> Challenge #1
<Troi-> Now is the time to ask your group mates a few long hard questions.
<Troi-> Probably the most highly touted reason for using Java or
<Troi-> JavaScript is "interactivity". You can create a Java Applet that
<Troi-> allows the user to choose for example, the typefont in which they
<Troi-> view your page. Or a JavaScript that presents a specific page
<Troi-> based on a user's browser. You might want to use a Java Applet to
<Troi-> create an incredible special effect, like an animated logo or
<Troi-> offer a game to draw visitors to your site. Perhaps you have no
<Troi-> CGI access and you would like your visitors to sign a guestbook o
<who> could someone list the challenges in twenty five words or less
<RiffRaff> umm...Pattie..that was a blur. :)
<sailorme> I'll See you latter, *****((((don't get board by the key board))))*****
<Troi-> yeah.. it was.. sorry
<who> anybody know the time in Hong Kong
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<Counselor> Yeah, please briefly describe the challenges...all that scrolls off before I can read it.
<Sweetcake> Linda left a message that she could not make it tonight but that she would catch up.. she did not mention in her letter what assignment she wanted. 
<Troi-> #1... Are your visitors using Java Capable browsers? How will it affect load time? Are you alienating those who dont have Java? Discuss the potential security Risks involved in using Java.
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<who> brb...gotta talk to wifey
<RiffRaff> security risks...hmmm....
<Sweetcake> I guesss we are to discuss JAVA and weather we want to use it at our site?
<Counselor> We are using java for the browser check...like it or not.  :)
<Troi-> #2.. Describe some of the things Java Applets can do and reasons for using them. Describe some of the things JavaScript can do and reasons for using it. Are there some tasks for which one is bettern than the other?
<Sweetcake> And the logs will be proof of assignment #1 being done.. no need to do anything for it that I can see unless someone wants to post a synopsis of JAVA and the advantages and disadvantages of using it and weather we plan to or not.
<Counselor> Well, we are using javascript...
<who> what need do we have for Java...except for Homework assignments
<who> could use to do cgi...
<RiffRaff> any wriing assignments, give to me. :)
<RiffRaff> er writing.
<who> write my resume'
<RiffRaff> I mean, for the group, silly. :)
<Sweetcake> no need that I can see.. except for the pretty JAVA scrolling thing I picked up earlier and put on our chat schedule page to spruce it up a bit.
<Troi-> #4... As a group select on the online JavaScript tutorials. Individually read it over and review what you have learned with your group and discuss what you did and did not understand.. Using that info.. attemp to write a basic script.
<RiffRaff> attempt to write a script?
<RiffRaff> oh, I get it...see how well others document instructions for using Java.
<Troi-> #6.. If you already know Java.. lead and show the other members of your group how to do what you have done already. Not just words on paper.. but actual instruction.
<RiffRaff> eeep.
<Troi-> that should cover it.
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<RiffRaff> I can help do 4..I know a few places on the web that try and teach Java. :)
<who> Riff...may need to do some writing for new front door
<who> english type writing
<Counselor> Well, I'd like to work on the javascript part of the lesson.
<RiffRaff> ok, I'm your man..what you need?
<Troi-> Hey... did everyone finish the stuff they needed to do for lesson 6.. the homework page is still missing some items
<RiffRaff> what was Lesson 6?
<Counselor> Hey, Riff....let's trade expertise...I'll help you with C if you'll help me with some of the writing of my pages.  :)
<Troi-> Which # was that Counselor
<RiffRaff> Counselor: deal. *shakes paws* :)
<Troi-> Lesson 6 was what you were supposed to be helping me on RiffRaff.. hahahah
<who> okay okay...nag nag nag
<who> you and my wife!
<Counselor> Troi, I'm not sure which challenge it is...I'l admit, I was a bit confused with these challenges...I'm not really clear on what they want.
<who> NOTE: I talked to teach <Ghatten> yesterday...
<Sweetcake> I am all done! In fact I posted 3 assignments that I did for the last assignment.. I posted the border page thing, the graphics with and without tables thing and a push page!
<who> the individual projects can't be "vapor-ware"
<RiffRaff> Pattie, I can help you tonite if you have time. :)
<Counselor> And, Troi, I did do my number 6...
<Troi-> Counselor. .. maybe it was #1.. with the security
<Counselor> What did she say, Who?
<Troi-> well, Paul.. I already updated the frame page.. 
<Sweetcake> Yes and it worked just great jeff!!
<who> That the individual projects should be at least in some degree of completion
<RiffRaff> Troi: please, I feel really badly that i cant participate as i would like. :(
<Troi-> Yes Jeff.. the browser seeker is great
<Sweetcake> maybe paul can help who finish up the forms page from #6 and the RGB netscape pallet thing from #3?
<who> Group would not necess by penalized for an individual...but indi might not get completi
<Troi-> Thats ok Paul.. I know  things get busy sometimes
<who> completion even if group part was complete
<RiffRaff> I DID go on a nice job interview today though, and did really well. :)
<Troi-> Good Paul.. I hope you get it.. :) I wish you luck.. I will be praying for you that you get it.. :)
<who> I just got off the phone with Hong Kong ... gonna do some consulting
who needs prayers too
<RiffRaff> Thanks, everyone...it's a Senior Computer Operator position, starting at $25/hour. :)
<Troi-> I pray for all those that I know.. and even some I don't.. so you are in there too Who.. even if I dont know the particulars.. :)
<who> Watch for a product called HomeGate
<who> Allows you to logon "locally" anywhere in world
<Sweetcake> Maybe Paul can make up for it by completing something this week. We all know people get busy and have other obligations. In fact at least he had the time to come to the study group meeting.. still no sign or word from geetha.. think she has bit the dust or something.. we have not heard from her in over 3 weeks!
<RiffRaff> ALSO...
<who> kinda network of ISPs to get you on WWW from a local pop anywhere in world
<Sweetcake> Nice Job Paul.. hope it works out for you!
<RiffRaff> Sweetcake: I really DO want to help out..I just get so busy job hunting and all. :(
<who> howzabout Hawk?
<Troi-> He was at the Sunday meeting.. (Kwahts)
<who> i have a family sitch a minute...brb
<Counselor> Well, you've all seen my messages "begging" everyone to email me...so far, no word from some of them.
<Sweetcake> I know how it is.. last assignment I was not busy at all so did 3 things because I had the time and wanted to.. this time I will be lucky to get assignment dome before next sunday.  By now I usually at least have the page setup for people to link their hw assignment on but I have not had the time to clone and post the page for this weeks assignment..am lucky to have the time to post the logs.
<Sweetcake> Linda Emailed today..
<Sweetcake> Hawk answered your message you sent out to everyone about not needing a browser in the future so he is still kicking around.
<RiffRaff> i saw that too. :)
<Counselor> Not needing a browser?
<RiffRaff> do you really think Microsoft has dne it?
<RiffRaff> er done
<Sweetcake> I was real busy scanning graphics and stuff today.. am working on my first project for the new business.. working on a webpage for a company that distributes firewear gear like, hoods, gloves, suspenders, bags, etc.
<Troi-> cool Carol... I know you are going to have great fun working on those pages for people.. :)
<RiffRaff> I myself am still studying CNA and the C and C++ languages...plus some VRML. :)
<Sweetcake> I was also very happy when the mailperson came! I got my Paint Shop Pro 4.12 on cdrom & a book  and cd I ordered called Creating your own web page graphics with PSP!
<Counselor> I'm confused...did Linda email or Hawk?
<Counselor> And, was it to the group
<Troi-> oh Carol..is it you who uses HotDog Pro?
<Sweetcake> both! Linda emailed to say she could not make tongihts meeting and Hawk just emailed that he thought the thing that steve sent out was interesting.
<Sweetcake> Yes I use Hot dog pro 3.0 and I also have hot dog 2.0
<Troi-> I have 2 and 2.5.. I just downloaded the 3.0.21.. updated March 13, 1997.. last night..
<Troi-> I also have Claris Home Page.. but I like HotDogPro better
<Troi-> I am glad that HD.. now has the frame capabilities
<Sweetcake> have not looked at my version number.. it is a registered version that I recently bought.. actually an upgrade from 2.0
<Troi-> well, at the HotDog site.. they said this version was just released yesterday.. March 13th
<Sweetcake> the only thing about 3.0 is you have to get used to the small working area.. not as big as 2.0.. it's because they added so many features to it.
<Counselor>  I wonder if I'm not getting all my mail...what did Steve send out?  Did the other mail go to everyone?
<Sweetcake> wonder if their is an update for registered versions? I'll have to check.
<Troi-> ahhh.. I am going to install it tomorro..havent had a chance to look at it yet since downloading
<Troi-> yes Carol.. I think there are.
<Sweetcake> Steve sent out  this message jeff:   Just an article "pushed" upon me (had to use the latest
<Sweetcake> buzzword)...thought it might start some interesting conversation.
<Sweetcake> Subject: The Day the Browser Died
<Sweetcake> Date:    Fri, 14 Mar 1997 02:06:56 MST
<Sweetcake> From:    "Team AnchorDesk" <anchordesk@lists.zdnet.com>
<Sweetcake> To:      scharney@usa.net
<Sweetcake> __________Berst Alert____________________
<Sweetcake> WHY THE BROWSER DIED ON WEDNESDAY
<Sweetcake> http://www.anchordesk.com/story/story_761.html
<Sweetcake> The browser died this week. The death blow: New standards  
<Sweetcake> that allow the push era to begin in earnest. Replacing  
<Sweetcake> your browser will be a receiver. Microsoft's new  
<Sweetcake> Channel Definition Format (CDF) signals the end of  
<Sweetcake> your surfing days. Oh sure, you can still browse.  
<Sweetcake> You just won't need--or want--to anymore. Click the  
<Sweetcake> link above to discover what's in store for you. 
<RiffRaff> so tell me what I can complete this week you guys...
<who> sorry...had to put out a fire...figuratively....i will be lurking as i clean up
<Sweetcake> what is left pattie? I forgot so Riffraff can do something?
RiffRaff nods, looking left out. :(
<Troi-> Carol.. yes there is a patch for HotDog..ver 3.0.9 and 3.0.19.. you can download the patch at the site
<Sweetcake> #2 #4 #6?
<Troi-> yeah..how bout # 2 or #4
<Counselor> Ok, I'm lost...guess I didn't get that email...  :(
<Sweetcake> I'll go look for it on Monday and upgrade.. must fix some bugs that I am not aware of.
<Sweetcake> What is #2 and #4 again so Paul will know which one to pick?
<Troi-> well all.. I have to get going.. I guess we are going to meet on Tues then? 
<Troi-> The numbers are posted in this log.. you just need to scroll back.
<RiffRaff> ok, will do...
<Counselor> Anyway, Ok, Troi...seee you Tuesday..
<Sweetcake> I'll forward you a copy OK?
<Troi-> <Troi-> #2.. Describe some of the things Java Applets can do and reasons for using them. Describe some of the things JavaScript can do and reasons for using it. Are there some tasks for which one is bettern than the other?
RiffRaff scrolls.
<who> passing through again...guess i'll mop up here too...i get whats left
<Troi-> <Troi-> #4... As a group select on the online JavaScript tutorials. Individually read it over and review what you have learned with your group and discuss what you did and did not understand.. Using that info.. attemp to write a basic script.
<who> cgi...has been written...needs debugging and attachment
<who> but overall page could be reformatted
<Sweetcake> So Riff which one looks pleasing to you? #2 or #4? 
<Sweetcake> If Pattie is doing #5 and I am doing #3 and #1 is being covered by the logs.. then who is doing #6?
<RiffRaff> I can probably do 4 :)
<RiffRaff> but thats a group thing, isnt it?
<Counselor> I think I'd like to work on #4, but I'm not really into any of them...  :(
<Troi-> ok.. Goodnight all! See you on Tues!
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<Counselor> Well, Riff, you could suggest the tutorial...
RiffRaff grins.
<RiffRaff> no I couldnt, I'd make it funny. :)
<Counselor> No, I mean you could suggest one that we might want to review.
<RiffRaff> oh, well, that I could do. :)
<Counselor> It said we needed to choose a tutorial onle and read and discuss it.
<RiffRaff> I know a few places I've looked at..I'll find them and post the addresses.
<Sweetcake> great! Then #1 covered by logs #2 is still available, #3 Carol,  #4 Paul & Jeff, #5 Pattie #6 still available? as for #1 [maybe someone who is not hear can post a synopsis to the hw page]
<RiffRaff> ok, I can find a tutorial. :)
<Counselor> Then, I'll read it and we can discuss it...  :)
<Counselor> Does anyone in the group have access to a java compiler?
<RiffRaff> I know I dont...only a C compiler. :(
<RiffRaff> would that help though?
<Counselor> No, I was just curious...
<Counselor> Well, I have a C compiler...  :)
<RiffRaff> of course you do, C-expert. :)
<RiffRaff> Counselor: what kind of writing help did you need anyhoo?
<Counselor> Well, Riff, read my pages and it should become obvious...  :P
<RiffRaff> hehe...come on, you cant be THAT bad. :)
<Sweetcake> Who did you volunteer for anything or do you still have too much catching up work to do on the other assignments? I am sure that Karen & Robert & Lexa & Karen & Geetha can do the 2 that are left?
<Counselor> I guess Who is still putting out fires...
<RiffRaff> maybe we should call 911? :)
<Sweetcake> I am sure there are JAVA compilers on the net that are shareware. I have a Java setup but have not used it as I have not had the time to learn it. It looks too difficult. I have a book and cd  called Talk Java to me  and a cd called The complete JAVA development kit
<Counselor> So, is there anything else we need to discuss tonight?
<Sweetcake> Go to shareware.com and look for JDK or java development kit or Symantic Cafe Lite
<Counselor> Do we have enough members here to discuss number 1?
<RiffRaff> did I hear that right?  Talk Java to me? :)
<RiffRaff> sounds like something from the Playboy channel. :)
<Sweetcake> I could sell him some of the firegear I scanned for my new business project! :-) Maybe even send out a gif of a fireman over to his house!
<Counselor> lol
<RiffRaff> ANYways...what is #1 about, Counselor?
<Counselor> We are supposed to discuss as a group the pro's and con's of java and javascript.
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<Sweetcake> Yes I have a book and a cd that goes with it called Talk JAVA to me.. you learn by using the cd and they instruct you in JAVA but it is very confusing to me since I have no programming behind my belt so I put it on the shelf until I have more time to deal with it.
<Sweetcake> and also discuss why we should and should not use it on our pages.. like load times.. security risks etc.
<Counselor> I'll extend the same offer to you, Sweetcake...if you need help, let me know.
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<Sweetcake> thanks Jeff..
<Counselor> So, do we want to undertake that discussion tonight or wait until Tuesday?
<RiffRaff> there's only us four...and I know I dont have a handle on Java just yet. :(
<RiffRaff> maybe we should wait?
<Sweetcake> I say wait until Tues and hope more people come to the meeting.. it's getting late here and we are only down to 4 people.
<Counselor> I agree...it's getting late...we'll plan on discussing it on Tuesday.
<Counselor> Ok, if no one has anything else, I think I'll go eat my dinner now.  :)
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<Sweetcake> Jeff.. maybe tomorrow you can post a message telling everyone what the challenges are and who is doing what and what is left over for the others to choose from and ask them again what they plan to do so we know that all challenges are covered.
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<Counselor> Yes, Carol, I think that's a good idea...I'll do that.
<Sweetcake> On Monday I'll clone and post a HW page so there will be something there for everyone to link their assignments too.
<RiffRaff> I know what my job is so..I'll probably get started finding tutorials. :)
<Sweetcake> I will not have time to clone and post a new hw page until then as I have to work on sat and sun
<Counselor> Great, Riff...Carol, can you post this log, so I can use it to refer back for who is doing what?
<Sweetcake> sure I leave now and zip it up and post it before I go to bed.. OK?
<RiffRaff> ok, great. :)
<Counselor> Ok, thanks Carol...well, goodnight everyone!
<Sweetcake> ok nite everyone then.. i post this and then go to bed i have to be at work at 9 am and it's 11:15 here in ny
<Sweetcake> night.
<Counselor> 'night.
<RiffRaff> nitie!
*** Log file closed: 3/14/97 11:14:57 PM
