Session Start: Sat Feb 07 18:53:24 1998
*** Now talking in #webdesign
*** Ghatten (webdesign@ACCS-AS54-DP01.nwrk.grid.net) 
has joined #webdesign

<Ghatten> Hello
<Ghatten> Nice crowd this evening
<z-Augustus> where is the tag 'marquee' discussed
<Zonie> >> z-Augustus << lesson 2
<z-Augustus> tks
<z-anna1> anybody know what the deadline for the midterm is?
<Ghatten> Yes Anna
<Ghatten> It *Ideally* should be done by the end of tomorrow
<Ghatten> BUT
<Ghatten> If you need an extension, just ask
<Zonie> >> Ghatten << any word yet as to when sign up for CEU's will reopen ????
<Quacker> Are we able to retake the class, next semester?
<Ghatten> As far as I know you can enroll again
<Quacker> with a cost?
<z-Sherry> you just couldn't get CEU's for both terms
<z-Augustus> will it be taught again
<z-Augustus> i have friends who are interested!
<Ghatten> Yes it will cost  LOL
<Zonie> >> Ghatten << just go through the enrollment process all over again ?
<Ghatten> But unless something *unforeseen* happens it will be taught again.
<Ghatten> Yep, just enroll again
<Zonie> ok : )
<Ghatten> It's okay if you are behind ya'll....
* z-Sherry needs an extension, please, should I send email?
<Ghatten> Lesson 6 and Lesson 8 will mostly be "listening" .. not a lot of "doing"
<Quacker> To make my web page, it says I will have a gray page behind and mine is white, did I do something wrong?
<Ghatten> Sherry--It's okay when you send it make sure you say you use "Sherry" and you asked in class
<z-Granny-Wicked> Ghatten can I retake questions on midterm quiz lolrof?
<Ghatten> Only 20 and 21 granny
<Ghatten> You did fine otherwise LOL....
<z-Granny-Wicked> okay thanks ghatten, I was tired!!
<Ghatten> Quacker...
<Zonie> >> Ghatten << enroll says is closed, and no word on midterm sign up for CEU's
<Ghatten> This is because the browser is apparently set to have a background default of white instead of gray
<Quacker> Thanks, I will continue on!!
<Ghatten> Most USED to have gray as default and therefore unless you want a lot of folks to see gray, set it to white...or better yet, choose another color off the list in the lesson or in one of the resources
<Quacker> See, I'm way behind!!  
<Quacker> OK I'll check it out!
<z-Augustus> http://www.ktc.com/personal/lee
<Ghatten> I meant to set the page background to white anyway or to change it to anther color other than white
<Quacker> I understand
<Ghatten> New/next semesters enrollment will probably begin in March
<z-Sherry> enrollment opens Monday, March 9
<Ghatten> Granny--why don't you give the URL For the Dora School pages...some folks might have some ideas on how to help
<z-Granny-Wicked> thanks ghatten
<Ghatten> Thanks Sherry <ro> Ghatten, will there be an advanced class next semester?
<Zonie> >> Ghatten << I had understood there would be a midterm sign-up for CEU's ??
<z-Granny-Wicked> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/3111 (dora school pages)
<z-anna1> granny, is that the school that burned down?
<z-Granny-Wicked> yes anna1
<z-anna1> ok
<Ghatten> The registrar is supposed to send a notice around.  I had not heard there was any problem so my guess is that something should be available shortly
<Zonie> thanks
<z-dddd> how do we know if we are already signed up for the CEU's or not?
<Ghatten> I will inquire about the status of that for all
<z-Augustus> what will the advanced course cover???
<ro> Is there a charge for the CEU Ghatten?
<Otter> ro -- yes!
<Ghatten> I have not gotten the final confirmation from the person who proposed the Advanced Class
<ro> Thanks Otter
<techie> I have a question.
<Ghatten> But when she responds I want to have her come and be a "Guest Lecturer"
<ro> Won't you be running it Ghatten?
<techie> I loaded my web page. On IE 3.0, we see the background, but not on Netscape 3.0.  What am I
<techie> doing wrong
<Ghatten> No, the advanced class was proposed by another person who designs commercial web pages for a living.
<Who> techie URL
<ro> Oh!  Thanks Ghatten.
<Ghatten> Techie---sometimes if the tags are out of place in the document that happens
<techie> Also, the gif is on the left in IE and on the right in Netscape. I used ALIGN=right
<techie> http://www.ns.net/~rhuddle
<Ghatten> IF we have lots of questions it is probably best to ,moderate it
<Ghatten> At least for a while that way no one gets missed
<Who> TECHIE...I'll take a look
<techie> k
<Ghatten> When we moderate only those who have been called on will be able to type in the classroom
<Ghatten> That way we have no problem getting to everyone
<flamingo> techie: I see your background on Netscape 4
<starlight`> k.. guess I'll ask mine now then <g> .. If you're electing to use a graphic as a link to another page .. how do you cause it to depress when clicked on the way a button does?
<flamingo> techie: which link is the graphic on?
<Who> TECHIE
<Ghatten> Starlight---that is a good question
<Who> You have coding in between the /HEAD and the BODY
<Ghatten> The way I do that is with a special JavaScript that makes it LOOK like that is happening but really is two images "switching"
<Who> my guess is that NS sees the first tag and assumes a BODY before it actually reads your BODY
<Ghatten> A Java Applet is another option
<starlight`> guess I'll wait till we get to Java then?
<techie> http://www.ns.net/~rhuddle/comlib.html
<z-anna1> are we doing Java?
<Who> TECHIE...did you see my comments?
<starlight`> I hope so anna
<Otter> starlight --it's easy with JavaScript and the use of 2 images!!
<techie> Thanks, will fix the error.
<Ghatten> yes who, that is what happens sometimes --for some reason IE will read the background image even if there is text before the body tag...Netscape is USUALLY less forgiving of the problem
<Who> TECHIE...also there are 2 BODY tags
<Who> Some browsers are more forgiving...but that isn't a good thing
<Ghatten> Yes the JavaScript is easy to use and I will give you the link in lesson 7
<starlight`> kewl .. thanx Ghatten .. Otter and Augustus ;)
<Zonie> ok we are going to moderated mode, hold your question until you see the + in front of your nick
*Ghatten says we are going to moderate---  No "z" to ask questions please.....
*** Zonie sets mode: +m
<Zonie> This channel is now moderated, if you do NOT have question, or you have asked your question, or you are going to log and not be present, put z- in front of your nick, if you are on a time limited connection (pay by the minute) put F- in front of your nick (please do not abuse this as those with the F- will be given voice first to save them money), please use the - , to change your nick type /nick z-yournick
* Ghatten says we will call on anyone who does not use the "Z"
<Who> ATTENTION...If you type and no one responds, you probably don't have "voice"
<Who> that means that no one else but you saw your message
<Zonie> watch for the tell tale + in front of your nick
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v anna1
<flamingo> techie: you have coding for a table around the img coding but you don't have the opening and closing tag set <TABLE> and </TABLE> ... Did you want a table there?
* Ghatten says note how Anna1 looksdifferent with the symbol near her name
<Otter> ChanServ set mode: -m
<Ghatten> Anna1 can now ask questions
<anna1> ok, is there a way to set two different sounds on the same page?
<Ghatten> Grrrr
*** Zonie sets mode: +m
*** ChanServ sets mode: -m
*** Who sets mode: +m
*** ChanServ sets mode: -m
*** Otter sets mode: +m
*** ChanServ sets mode: -m
<Who> How about we just ignore everyone who isn't +
<Ghatten> Well forget that. .I guess they have it set so we can't change the room status---instead let's just go down the list folks, one at a time
* Ghatten finds it hard to ignore folks and hopes that people will just be polite
<Ghatten> Who wants to help Anna?
<z-Seraphina> Does whatever I type now be my notes? For my eyes only?
<z-Augustus> anna1 be more specific with the question
<Ghatten> Uh, one of the instructors pleas
<Otter> anna -- what2 sounds do you want? 2 midis?
<anna1> I would like to have two different was on the same page toggling back and forth
<Who> ANNA: you may have many sounds on your page but only 1 at a time may play
<z-Augustus> you can code two different html files and switch back and forth between them
<anna1> so, I can program it to play in succession?
<z-Augustus> probably but you may have to use Java
<Otter> there's a java script to play different song seach time the page is loaded
<Zonie> I solved the multiple sound choices using frames
<Ghatten> That's a solution I have seen used too
<Zonie> by having a different html doc for each sound and  then having that html doc load into a small frame that can't even be seen
<Who> Anna...is there a NEED for this or just a want?
<Ghatten> The JavaScript is not hard.  I will look to see if I can add a link to where it can be found in lesson 7
<z-anna1> just want, wanted to spice up my Valentines page
<z-Augustus> anna you can also put your links in a table
<z-anna1> done that
<Ghatten> That way anyone who understands how to add the JavaScript to a page can add the jukebox
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v jojo
<Ghatten> Okay..next question to Jojo
<Zonie> with the frames method there are no special players needed, it uses the embed and bgsound tags
<jojo> Did anyone who successfully uploaded a web page also link it to other pages they created?  I'm having
<flamingo> jojo: what is your URL?
<Ghatten> let us take a look
<Ghatten> ok when jojo gets the URL we will try to assist...
<Ghatten> Have you a question MCW?
<MCW> I have a tip I'd like to pass on 
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v MCW
<MCW> .when in a moderated channel you can type your notes directly to screen
<Ghatten> ok
<MCW> NO one else will see them in your logs or on screen except you!
<MCW> this will cut my log editing time in half
<MCW> that's all
<z-dddd> so nobody can see this?
<MCW> we are not moderated now
<Otter> but we aren't actually moderated!!  !
<Otter> Be careful what you say LOL
<z-Trendar> where on screen
<MCW> just type in your bar it will go to only your screen
<MCW> services will give
<MCW> message saying you can't write to 
<Who> ANNA...just found this: Search results 1 - 10 
<Who>Hide Summaries  |Ungroup Results |  next 
<Who> Results from the same site are grouped together 
<Who> Sequence: Changing HTML code between hits
<Who> Sequence is a simple tool that allows you to generate witty sayings,
<Who> randomized advertisements, or other lines of HTML code that change
<Who> between "hits" on a page. 
<MCW> channel but it will be in only your logs
<Who> OOPS too much cut to paste
<Who> anyhow...check out http://www.baremetal.com/gadgets/sequence.html
<MCW> and only on your screen 
<MCW> so you can do things like make it all caps that way its easier to edit
<z-anna1> thanks who
<Ghatten> Thanks MCW..
<Ghatten> Next , jojo --do you have the URL for us to look over
*** Ghatten sets mode: -v z-anna1
*** Ghatten sets mode: -v z-MCW
<Ghatten> We will get  back to jojo
<Ghatten> Quacker, your turn
<Ghatten> turn
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v Quacker
<Quacker> I don't understand what all this means
<Ghatten> Do you have a question Quacker?
<Quacker> No
<Ghatten> JOJO!
<Ghatten> jojo=Joel LOL..I did not realize you were the same LOL
<Ghatten> Jojo--the most likely cause of the problem you are having is the file names of your other pages contain spaces
<Ghatten> Many servers do not allow file names to contain spaces or other "symbols"
<Ghatten> Usually letters, number and the underscore are okay..look over the info from the server to see what it says
<Ghatten> jojo, did you get the info before i got bumped?
<Ghatten> I was explaining that the file names of webpage gnarly should not include spaces...lots of folks have created file names with spaces
<Ghatten> and then have had trouble getting the links to work...you will need to change the names
<Ghatten> Update the HTML 
<Ghatten> and re-upload the pages
<Ghatten> And it should work okay then
<Ghatten> Let us know if it works please Jojo...
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v Milton_S
<Milton_S> The URL for the CEU info is http://www.vu.org/news/(You have to SIGN IN.  The NEWS button is on the LEFT)  It says that you will get a E-mail FEB 7.  I have not yet (4 hours to go Pacific time)!
<Ghatten> Thank you VERY much Milton!
*** Ghatten sets mode: +v Christy
<Ghatten> Christy --do you have a question for us?
<Ghatten> okay--Ro, until Christy asks--go ahead with your question?
<ro> Oh, I have two but they are short
<Ghatten> ok
<ro> One is... Is there a way to create a table border in a color?  For example what I do now is create the page background to be the border color that I want for the table border in order to get the border that color.<terrible sentence>
<Zonie> in IE you can even pick the light and dark colors used in shadows
<Ghatten> Yes with some exception
<Zonie> of the table
<Ghatten> They are browser specific
<ro> I know.  Is there still not a way to do it in Netscape?
<Otter> A TRUE CROSSPLATFORM
<Otter> MUTI-BUTTONSOUND PLAYER
<Otter> (AJUKEBOX)
<Otter> http://www.htmlgoodies.com/javagoodies/muti_button.html
<Otter> that's the URL for the JavaScript for multi-sounds!!!
<Ghatten> Yeah Otter!!
<z-anna1> got it!
<Ghatten> There is a way to FAKE it in Netscape
<ro> Can you tell us how?
<ro> I find the using the background color the page takes long to load for people with slower modems.
<Zonie> if platform has JavaScript capabilities : )
<ro> Well, I suppose it's time to learn Java
<Ghatten> Create a table with a background color ro
<Ghatten> and set another inside of it 
<ro> I thought it would not work in Netscape though.
<Ghatten> This will allow the background to show through
<Ghatten> This is the background color rather than the border color
<ro> So it would look like it was the border?
<Ghatten> It does...
<Ghatten> KittyCat
<ro> I'll try it.
<Ghatten> Can you give us the URL where you used this technique?
<Ghatten> KC??
<ro> Ok, next questions.
<ro> I think I know the answer to this one but I am not sure if there is another way to do it.
<z-kittycat1> Sorry--I am not sure which you mean
<Ghatten> Ahh the Image with the table border--the college sign??
<ro> I want to use a graphic instead of a bullet for a buttet list.
<Ghatten> Okay
<ro> How do you get the second link to hang if you don't use some sort of an indent?  Do you do it in a table with 2 cells.
<ro> second line to hang
*** flamingo sets mode: -v z-Milton_S
<Ghatten> That would be an excellent way I think if you have lots of text coming down to the next line--a table with no border
<Ghatten> Or you could Try using the &nbsp; a few times to push it in
<ro> ok... that is how I would do it in word processing.  I put a lot of my design as if I were doing word processing.
<ro> a table would be more precise.
<Ghatten> but that is not as good since different resolution monitors will break different
<Ghatten> yes a table would be better
<Ghatten> and you answered your own question!
<starlight`> couldn't you use the <PRE></PRE> tags for that and create it elsewhere first?
<ro> a table would break according to the resolution.
<ro> That would not be good because if you were to edit the text at later
<ro> date you would have a problem. 
<ro> With a table it will work no matter what you do as far as editing now or later in the future.
<ro> Can I ask one other tiny question Ghatten and everyone?
<Ghatten> Ro--look at this page to see how the table background color can be used to simulate a border color in all browsers that support background colors in tables
<Ghatten> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ranch/4934/index.html
<Ghatten> Ok ro, your last question?
<Ghatten> Guess she went to look at the page!
<Ghatten> Starlight?
<starlight`> Will there be a course offered next semester on PSP and perhaps GIF Construction Set or a similar application for created animated GIFs and backgrounds .. if not .. will any of these tips be covered in this class?
<Ghatten> The next lesson has a tutorial on buttons
<ro> I see, thanks Ghatten... People have complained about waiting for the background color to disappear.
<Ghatten> VU would love to offer a class on graphics, so far no one has offered to teach them
<Granny-Wicked> Leapin will next semester ghatten
<ro> I would be the first one to sign up for taking the class.
* starlight` sighs ..thanx Ghatten .. so would I ro
<Granny-Wicked> Leapin is giving psp class next semester ghatten
<z-anna1> ATTENTION!
<z-anna1> there is a psp tutoral class going on right now
<z-anna1> I don't have the url handy, all I have is a link, but I can post it to the board later
<Ghatten> ok
<z-anna1> I found it through the links on graphics
<Ghatten> The next schedule will be out in March---if there are any graphics classes that are offered they at VU they will be on that schedule
<z-anna1> from the lesson...see I did pay attention
<Ghatten> Can't really speak of classes offered elsewhere
<ro> I think that a good book that has step-by-step pictures and instructions would be good.  Anyone know of any?
<Otter> There are a lot of PSP tutorials online
<ro> I'm going to check them out.  I wish I had a color printer to print out the materials.
<z-anna1> ok, here it is, you have to register, but it is free
<z-anna1> http://www.adwebdesign.com/psp/
<z-starlight> yes.. I have about a couple dozen URL's Otter ... but it's not the same as taking a structured class with feedback :/
<z-starlight> thanx anna ;)
<ro> that's true Starlight
<z-anna1> I'll also post it to the board for anyone else who might be interested
<Ghatten> Well it 's time to wrap up
<Granny-Wicked> is there a place to go and get the codes ghatten for table colors around table borders? can you have both table codes for i.e. and Netscape enlargement area? and what size would you use to make it show up better? the background color for Netscape? can html be set up for more then one browser? 
<Granny-Wicked> sorry ghatten I had a big question
<Ghatten> okay grannt sorry
<Granny-Wicked> it's okay
<Granny-Wicked> want me to repeat it?
<Zonie> Granny BORDERCOLOR="" BORDERCOLORLIGHT=""  and BORDERCOLORDARK="" are the attributes for colored tables in IE
<Ghatten> For the table colors you should be able to use the same ones that you use in background of pages etc.
<Granny-Wicked> do I need to make the borders larger for Netscape and add bordercolor="" for i.e.?
<Zonie> NS only deals with BORDERCOLOR
<Granny-Wicked> like on the Dora school page2, it has a background color and the borders are small can I enlarge them and add the bordercolor="" for i.e. also?
<Ghatten> Vary the borders sizes on the tables to get the colors to show
<Ghatten> I have to go
<Ghatten> Sorry
<Blossom^> have a good night Ghatten!
*** Ghatten (webdesign@ACCS-AS54-DP01.nwrk.grid.net) has left #webdesign
<z-dowie> CHAT LOGS ARE POSTED AT http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/5425/chatlog.htmSession 

Close: Sat Feb 07 20:44:14 1998