It may sound like an impressive body of work, but all these roles are just a warm-up to the most socially important part Woody Harrelson will ever play- to help get hemp grown on American soil. To these ends, Woody has invested himself in The Hempstead Company of Costa Mesa, California and has provided written testimony to Colorado's Senate Agricultural Committee, offering to pay market price for Colorado-grown hemp fiber. I caught up with Woody in the middle of production in Memphis, Tennessee, where The People vs Larry Flynt was being filmed.
Mari- Woody, thanks for agreeing to be interviewed by HempWorld.
Woody- My pleasure. I think the fact that there is a magazine called HempWorld is very exciting.
M- Thank you. Let's talk about the movie you're in: The People vs. Larry Flynt. The story is based on a first amendment trial of a pornography publisher?
W- Well, not just one trial but shall we say, trials and tribulations.
M- How does the story start?
W- It started out in Cincinnati, naturally. You know, where they ban everything from Mapplethorpe to whatever. It was in Cincinnati that they declared Hustler magazine obscene because the supreme court passed this weird law that communities have their own standards of obscenity. They declared Hustler obscene. And so Larry went to court, and then they convicted him on not only the obscenity, which was relatively minor compared to another violation which was organized crime.
The organized crime statute was this thing where if four or more people gather together to do some kind of illegal activity, then that's organized crime. They did that after the Kent state shootings, I guess, as a kind of way to keep kids from organizing to protest the war. So anyway, they nailed him on that, and sentenced him to twenty-five years. Then he fought it and it got over turned on appeal. Then he got convicted in Atlanta, or not convicted but, you know, they went after him in Atlanta for the same sentence. While he was defending that, he got shot (he is now paralyzed).
M- Who was he shot by?
W- Well, there's some guy who admitted to it. I suspect it was tied to the F.B.I. or the C.I.A. The way they work is the C.I.A will have some guy who's in prison forever, who will never get out, admit to something, which was the case with this guy who was in there.
M- Now, what years are we talking about here?
W- This was in the seventies. In 1977 he was shot.
M- So then the trial was going on from what, the mid 70's?
W- Yeah the mid-seventies to the eighties. He went to the Supreme Court in the 80's twice. He is actually the only guy on record who cussed out the Supreme Court.
But then this whole thing happened with him and Jerry Falwell. Falwell was pissed about a Compari ad parody that appeared in Hustler in which Falwell talks about having sex with his mother in an outhouse. And then they convicted him, but he over turned that in the supreme court.
M- So the movie follows what period?
W- I think they condensed the movie, but really it goes from early seventies to mid 80's, when his wife Althea died of AIDS.
M- Where is Larry right now?
W- He's living in Los Angeles, selling dirty magazines.
M- Oh, so he's still publishing.
W- Still publishing. And, he's been involved with this [film]. I've gone over the script with him.
M- Do you feel any empathy towards the guy? Do you feel that there are any parallels in your lives?
W- Well, I think we're both, ya know, poor white trash who made it good. Who made it, whether or not we made it good. Who knows? I do feel a lot of empathy because I feel that he was all about this fight for the right thing, whether or not you agree with him- philosophically, or about what he does- pornography. I mean, just the whole fight for freedom of speech, which is really what his whole deal was about- protecting the first amendment. I guess that the protectors of our rights come in the oddest forms and guises. But he really did, he fought it and protected it.
M- Tell me about your first experiences with cannabis hemp. How did you learn about the plant's industrial applications?
W- Well, I started learning about the history of it, I don't know, probably five years ago, and my issue was trying to protect the forest. I got involved particularly in Montana where the timber industry wanted access to about six million acres. And they're fairly uncompromising- they want it all, and so I went to bat with some friends of mine like Peter Bahouth, who is head of the Turner Foundation. He's the guy who brought me into it. And so we got a whole group of people, Bob Weir, Carol King, and a really interesting assortment of people.
The whole dream team at the time all signed up, and a lot of actors. And it really stopped them [timber]. Course that was just for one year. I went on CNN- Larry King,- and talked about it, not too terribly eloquently, but what was my argument? "Please don't tear down the trees." The fact is, you have to offer an alternative.
That's when I began to see industrial hemp as the alternative-to making paper from it, particularly. Any non-wood source would work. I thought that hemp was the most interesting just because of it's history and that it has been used to make paper for so many years. Hemp/kenaf or hemp/straw or what ever. I wanted to see hemp happen agriculturally .
M- And then how did you get involved with the Hempstead guys?
W- I think it started when I saw one of their hats or bags, or something. I called them up. We kept in touch for awhile, then we started working together.
M- And how did that evolve? I heard you took them onto the set of Indecent Proposal, and they told everyone about hemp.
W- Yeah, and I got all the gifts for the crew from those guys- fanny packs and stuff- and I've done that since then, for one or two movies. I like these guys. I just began to really trust them, Chris and Dave, so that's where we're at.
M- And so now you are a partner in the business?
W- Yeah, I like to think I'm part of the creative aspect of it too. They're definitely the workers, the ones getting the job done. I'm doing movies right now, but I hope to be as focused as they are, soon.
M- Are you giving them creative input, or are you mostly a silent partner?
W- No, I speak.
M- Are you designing items?
W- Well yes, I am, there's one thing in particular- a T-shirt we're doing that I have a whole concept over. Then they made the T-shirt, which is really cool. If you talk to them you can ask them about that T-shirt.
M- And do you also surf?
W- Yeah.
M- I heard..
W- ...oh, sorry.
M- no, go ahead.
W- No, you go ahead.
M- No you.
W- No you.
M- No you..(laughter)... I heard that Joe Hickey was a friend of yours as well, and that he has a cameo scene in this movie.
W- Yeah, in King Pin, in this movie I did. You get to see his back side.
M- So how did he get the job?
W- He was in the right place at the right time, no question about it. We needed another naked man in this scene. It's like a shelter with a bunch of guys that don't have enough money to have an apartment, and we're getting hosed down by a priest, who's one of the guys. It's by the same guys who did Dumb and Dumber: Pete and Bobby Farley. They're old buddies of mine. We finally got to do a movie together. Bill Murray's in it, and Randy Quaid, Vanessa Angel.
M- You were very helpful with the Colorado Senate Agricultural committee. Do you have any plans to be involved in the political situation in the future?
W- Well, I am right now in Vermont. And a bill got introduced in Missouri. It's really exciting how we're right here at the forefront. It's going to break through, no question, its going to happen. We just can't keep cutting down 800 year old trees for pulp, it's just insane. It's this insanity I'm working against. Anyone can make the case of jobs vs the environment which is such an absurd thing because the subsidies from taxpayer dollars that are afforded the timber interests would more than adequately pay the people who would lose their jobs. That's the great irony. I'd rather cut out the middle part of chopping down the trees and just give them our taxpayer dollars, and fuck it.
M- Are you planning to get more involved in the political scene?
W- Yeah, I'm planning on it, but I don't think I should tell you what I'm planning on doing. I've got some ideas.
M- This film you're working on is produced by Oliver Stone. Do you know if he or anyone in Hollywood is working on a hemp screenplay?
W- No, but there is a pot documentary. They spoke to me about being the spokesman for that, but I just don't think you can confuse the issue of legalization of pot with industrial hemp. Because it seems one is an unwinnable situation, and the other is very winnable. Besides, I don't understand the whole desire to legalize marijuana. I haven't noticed any slow-down in people's ability to get weed. What is the problem? Why do they feel it needs to be legalized? Because a lot of people are going to jail! But I know all the years I was buying weed I never had any problem.
M- Do you feel smoking is helpful or detrimental in your life?
W- Detrimental, no question. I had a brain that was just incredible and weed really helped it to atrophy. The neurons used to fire like you wouldn't believe! I definitely could have done without it. The main problem with weed and other drugs- weed is obviously considered one of the least harmful- is it's still a drug that masks the emotions. There is an image of what smoking weed is but the reality is, it keeps you from dealing with your emotions. That's what I think.
M- Don't you think there are times when people want to escape and relax?
W- I think that's what it is - an escape route. I know all the times I most felt the need to smoke was when I was under some kind of emotional pressure, Like 'Jeez , I might be feeling something- I'd better smoke'. That's not what I was actually thinking, but it was unconscious, maybe.
M- Where do you think that the hemp industry is headed?
W- Oh well, I can see that just from a few years ago to now, the number of companies has just skyrocketed. There are just so many more hemp related companies, both here, in Europe, and everywhere. Ultimately, paper is going to be made. Hemp is obviously going to be a non-wood source for paper. Weyerhaeuser and a lot of these different giants are looking for other sources now that they have used up primary and secondary forests. I know kenaf is getting a lot of play, but it doesn't have the seasonal activity that hemp does. So I think hemp will supplant wood-based paper. I also know textiles have taken off. Hemp oil is going to be an important thing. Just look at how much flax oil is selling now! It just seems like we can change so many things. Eventually our logic will overtake our lack of sanity.
I just think that it's important to get over it. Certainly, there has to be a way to coordinate with the D.E.A., and the various government factions that suppress what should be legal as industrial hemp.
M- Even when it's more profitable to stick with the status quo?
W- That just involves the consumer realizing it's their dollars that makes everything happen or not. The way to do that is education. I think there is going to have to be a network. That's what is exciting, getting enough people together to start boycotting certain items and buying certain other items in a way that actually makes a difference.
Everybody talks about how erratic the weather is. We're seeing a lot of signs of the greenhouse effect. I don't even think the impact of the environmental destruction that has taken place so far has been fully realized. I'm not saying everybody is going to realize it. Some people won't care but it doesn't take everybody. If you have a half million people, now that's a serious block of people. If you have a million people, that's really powerful if those people say they're not going to send their consumer dollars in that direction, they're going to send them in this direction.
M- About the 1st amendment: in The People vs Larry Flynt do you see any parallels in the present day. To the Telecommunications Bill, or government's interference in what a company chooses to name it's products?
W- I think the parallels are right in our face. Bob Dole's campaign fundraising letters began with "I just watched all I could stand of Natural Born Killers," and right then he goes into this diatribe about how something has to be done about movies like this. I feel flattered because he also asked people to boycott Money Train, so I feel a certain connection to Bob Dole. The last two movies I've been in he has wanted to boycott and has considered them morally scandalous. So his whole thing is "send money to me and I'm going to do something about this." And of course, he says he wants nothing to do with censorship, but still, that is what he is talking about. His talk is 'I will try to appeal to them to do the right thing'. The actuality is censorship. For example, after his whole railing about Natural Born Killers, Warner Bros. would not release the director's cut. It's being released through another company, but the fact remains, that is effectively censorship.
M- And what about the Telecommunications Bill?
W- I saw this coming for a while. It's just become so popular, the Internet. I knew the government would have to eventually sink their claws into it. That's inevitable, and that is something that has to be fought. I understand it's being fought in court. It's the same fight that Larry Flynt had. What's interesting to me is how our society is so up in arms and so confused about our sexuality. The reason it got started was because the mother country was too damn liberal, so the Puritans came here. We've never been able to shake loose the Puritan ethic! So the perception here is that sexual permissiveness is the thing that is eroding the moral fabric of this country, but instead, I think it's sexual repression. When you think of a lot of problems that exist today, they have to do with sexual repression and hang-ups. By the way, this is really in the character of Larry Flynt who said the same thing. To quote Larry, "until we come at ease with our own sexuality, we are not going to be able to deal with the problems that confront us."
M- Do you think that relates to what we put in our bodies as well as what we do with them?
W- I just think that moralizing is an absurd situation that exists with so-called moral people who want to insist that you have the same moral code. Maybe it is immoral to put drugs into your body, but who is the person who should have that decision? I think a kind of hands-off approach is the best approach.
I want to read you this thing from Tao Te Ching, Steven Mitchell's interpretation. It says,"whoever relies on the Tao in governing men doesn't try to force the issues or defeat enemies with force of arms. For every force there is a counter force. Violence, however well-intentioned, always rebounds upon oneself." There is some cool stuff in this book particularly in regards to governing people.
M- Are you a follower of any particular discipline?
W- No I'm definitely open to all of them.
M- How were you raised?
W- Presbyterian. Went to college on a Presbyterian scholarship, to a Presbyterian school. I was strongly religious for a while. That changed when I started to see a lot of hypocrisy, including my own.
Oh, here's another thing I found in this book. "For governing a country well there is nothing better than moderation. The mark of a moderate man is freedom from his own ideas. Tolerant like the sky, all pervading like the sunlight, supple like a tree in the wind, he has no destination in view and makes use of anything life has to bring his way. Nothing is impossible for him because he has let go, he cares for the people's welfare as a mother cares for her child. Governing a large country is like frying a small fish- you spoil it with too much poking."
M- So who will you support in the next election?
W- Well, you know, I'm supporting Dole, of course- no wait- I guess I'm supporting Clinton. He is definitely over-diplomatic and tries to please everyone, which can be construed as weakness, but I do think he has a good heart. You look in Bob Dole's eyes, and I'm sure there is a heart there somewhere, but it's not expressed through his eyes. His intelligence controls him. I don't think he has much feeling. He is, in a sense, much like an actor. He relies on a script, tries to deliver it with passion, and pretends he cares about it. But the fact of the matter is, his concern is just the utmost success, which is to be President. From there, I don't know where you go.
M- What do think of Pat Buchanan?
W- Well, in fact I was doing this scene in court. James Carville played the prosecutor, and I had to cry. Tears had to well up after hearing my attorney's closing arguments. I was having a helluva time getting tears, and so Milos [Forman] is cutting onions in front of me below the camera line doing everything he could to get me welling up, and Carville yells, "Just say to yourself- Buchanan for President!" Sure enough, I cried. And cried and cried.
M- There is something I have to ask you that I've often wondered about movies: does Anheiser Busch have some kind of monopoly on product placement, or is it a coincidence that every TV or movie character only drinks Budweiser?
W- I don't know if they have a monopoly, but they have a pretty good racket going. All they do is supply the production with beer. All the Bud you want for the crew. They might pay a fee too, I don't know. A lot of advertisers do that, by the way. I hate that shit, product placement. Particularly them, because I just hate that beer. I would rather drink my own urine. In fact, I've been considering a little urine therapy lately, but that's another story.
On April 15th, tax day in the United States, Harrelson cited the "government and environmentally destructive industry" as his reason for witholding $10,000 of his income tax payment. He said in a letter to the Internal Revenue Service, "Why do our tax dollars go to subsidize timber, coal, petrochemical, mining, pesticide, nuclear and war industry interests? Is it better to focus our wrath on unwed mothers and welfare recipients than to curtail these industries? I am tired of my tax dollars going to all the wrong things, supporting the industries that are desecrating nature. I realize this action will probably backfire on me but my career has extended well beyond what I anticipated anyway and, to borrow a phrase from the Lorax, somebody has to "speak for the trees."
So far, the IRS has not responded.
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