Talking with Creature of the Night DAN BRERETON.
By Kim August
If you love comics then Dan Brereton should be a very familiar name. I discovered him initially because he painted the cover of the Snake Plissken comic. Curious, I then unearthed the NOCTURNALS and became a fan of Dan's work. His latest offering, the excellent and fun GIANT KILLER was released this past summer. Below Dan shares his love of scarecrows, crime, pumpkins and family.
PHARR OUT: Being a pop culture fiend and enjoying the many references you've inserted into the NOCTURNALS; I'm going to start with the one element that made it very personal to me from the get-go. The evil references to Bit-O-Honey. I refer to that candy as the dentist in candy wrap because the one and only time I had a bar, it took one of my baby teeth with it. As an avid trick-or-treater, did you have any nasty experiences with Bit-O-Honey that lead to the well deserved bashing it receives in the Nocs comics?
DAN: "The Bit-o-Honey question is a valid one, Kim. I guess most of us remember getting that evil little candy in our bags on Halloween night, but I sort of liked it, if it weren't for the consistency, that is. Actually, the Bit-o-Honey reference is one we can all understand, and really only a Witch would love that candy. The other reason stems from a personal (but innocuous) joke between my brother and a few friends and I. It's not really something I can explain here because it wouldn't translate. I think if I were going to make another candy reference is another story, I'd have to go for either Dum-Dums-the lollipops you only saw in October-or those horrible, orange Brach's things that are like eating sweetened petroleum jelly."
Did Clive Barker's NIGHTBREED inspire you to do the NOCTURNALS.
DAN: "I liked Nightbreed, and remembered loving the idea of dark monster characters who live out of sight of humans...but it was no more of an inspiration than comics like the X-Men, Fantastic Four, or The Wizard of Oz, Johnny Quest, Universal Monsters or The Groovy Ghoulies, The Munsters, Addams Family, the Herculoids...even Speed Racer."
Also Scorsese? Leone? Woo? I see a lot of the three of them in "Black Planet" as well.
DAN: "Sure. I love film. I love crime fiction both in novel, pulp and movie form. There's a John Woo homage panel in issue four with the Raccoon. The two cops in Black Planet are named for two of my favorite crime writers. As for the old mob boss, Lupo the Wolf; 'Zampa' is my grandmothers' maiden name."
Your daughter Lindsay inspired "Evening, The Halloween Girl". Have any other members of your family directly inspired the look or personality of other characters in the NOCTURNALS?
DAN: "I'm not sure I conceived it that way. But I think family members' personalities have found their way into some of the characters, including some of my idioms as well. That's just a natural thing though, I think. I try to write believable characters, so they tend to be given the traits that I see in my everyday life. There's some of Lindsay in Eve, but there's some of my daughter Audrey too, and my son Hunter. Lately I've taken to coming up with characters, two in particular who are closer to Hunter and Audrey: Audrey's "character" is Tree Frog, who hasn't shown up yet, and I'm working on a character for Hunter too."
I really like the element of family in within the frame of the NOCTURNALS. And the fact that you show the healthy family (Doc, Eve and the Nocs) as well as the bad, the Mafia, Crim etc. Is Doc based on you, paternal wise or is he the type of dad you aspire to be?
DAN: "Family is important, really important in my life, and I wanted to convey a strong family sense in the book, in the way that it comes through in my life and also the way it was coming across in comics and tv when I was growing up. The FF, X-Men are families, as well as the Munsters and Johnny Quest...it's always been something close to my heart, although I didn't realize it for years."
Starfish, Polychrome and Eve are great. It is very gratifying to see such strong female characters, all of whom I can identify with. They aren't just babes thrown in for the scenery.
Dan: "Yeah, definitely not just for show. I love strong women in stories, maybe more than men."
Starfish in particular is just so cool, reminds me of what Sharon Stone's character should have been like in the QUICK AND THE DEAD. Will we ever know her origins, and Doc's ah, assembly/creation of the GUNWITCH.
DAN: "I had always planned to reveal the personal stories of the characters more in future projects. So far I have had the opportunity, but I'd like to in the next project, explore who or what the Gunwitch is, where Starfish comes from etc... I didn't feel the need to give away the mystery in Black Planet. Starfish is not a hybrid, however, like the Raccoon and Komodo. She's more of a throwback to an ancient earth race that died out ages ago, that type of thing...maybe....the Gunwitch is a resurrected gunfighter from the 19th century. Doc used some science and some alchemy to do this. When it was a living person, the Gunwitch was a sort of sinister character, a fallen hero type. Possibly a town sheriff who went wrong somehow, or came to a bad end. (Chris Golden and I explored it a little in a short story for the Crow anthology: THE CROW: SHATTERED LIVES AND BROKEN DREAMS. It's a must have for Nocturnals fans, and it just came out in paperback I think. Jim O Bra and Ed Karma edited the anthology. Chris and I did a Nocturnals story that centers on the Gun witch and Eve. ) I'd like to believe that his strong urge to protect Eve and Do comes from a sort of spectral need for redemption. But the fact that Do gives him a command in some odd tongue (BLACK PLANET) makes me think he must be under control, compelled to follow Dock's orders. I'm sure the Gun witch feels a sense of protectiveness for Eve. In the way the ghosts that hang around her and inhabit her toys are protective of her. something about her attracts them."
I like the fact that Eve has an undid gunslinger for a baby sitter. When you first created the GUN WITCH did you know right off the bat that he would be the protector of Evening?
DAN: "I always envisioned the Gun witch as Eve's sidekick. Beauty and the Beast. That was early on. But I also just wanted a gun slinging sort of scarecrow zombie thing in there... I love scarecrows and I love the idea of zombie gunfighters. When the idea became a family that included the others, Do was created as Eve's fathers sort of central mysterious leader type- and early on, Do was more sinister too. More manipulative. Back then, I was calling it Do Horror's Pawn Shop. The idea was, creatures who couldn't find shelter or a home anywhere else would come to Do and in exchange for their service and loyalty, he would help them. That changed later. It's an idea I'd still like to explore with another group of characters though."
Were your many turns as a scarecrow on Halloweens past part of the inspiration for the GUN WITCH?
DAN: "I confess, yes. And I loved the Scarecrow form the Wizard of Oz. When I was growing up, when we'd see scarecrows in fields and stuff which was regularly-since my parents loved to take us on back road Sunday drives when we were kids. They always sparked my imagination. I was really happy to see all the scarecrow imagery in the new Sleepy Hollow film. Very cool. I also loved playing cowboy. I used to pretend I was James West, from the Wild, Wild West tv show. I refused to to see the film." -----
Moving on the GIANT KILLER for a bit...
Will Jack team up with the NOCs somewhere down the line.
DAN: "I hope so. I have a story in mind, but who knows if I'll get to do it. Sometimes I think it must be nice to be able to self publish, but I'm not in a position to do that. So I'm at the mercy of the publishers who are willing to pay me to do the work. This is great, but it doesn't always mean I get to do everything I want. And that's' fair. I was overjoyed, and surprised as hell that DC was willing to do Giant killer and very grateful. But I don't think they're ready for a GK/Nocs crossover, not in this climate of poor sales we're in. But I haven't given up on the idea. It was always my fond wish that Jack and Jill join the Nocturnals or become 'friends' of the Nocs. They are definitely living in the same world."
Jack, like Firelion, is modeled after the Samurai. What is about this warrior culture that fascinates you so...
DAN: "I love Feudal Japan!! I get a rush watching all those samurai flicks like Yojimbo, Sanjuro, Seven Samurai, Hara Kiri, the Lone Wolf and Cub series, Zatoichi series...love 'em. Watching SHOGUN as a teen got me started, I think. The idea that guys walked around dueling with swords and living in castles, ninjas, etc., I love the costumes, the attitude, all of it. I would love to do a full-out feudal story, but haven't had the chance. Once upon a time, James Robinson and I talked about doing a feudal japan DCU, and if I hadn't been so bogged down with work at the time, maybe we would have. James even tried to do it with another artist, but I put a stop to that. It was my baby even more than his-and he knew it-so he relented. Unfortunately, another team beat us to the punch recently. I wanted to do the Seven Samurai as the JLA story with pal and writer Henry Gilroy, but we were told it had been pitched and approved by others already. Too bad, but who knows which way the wind blows. I'd love to do it with the X-Men or some other group maybe....or come up with something on my own. I'm developing a vampire epic set in the future that has strong feudal Japanese influences. Before I got into Feudal Japan, I was a big Arthurian nut, so I think it was some kind of natural progression."
And while on the subject of samurai in comics, what do you think of USAGI YOJIMBO?
DAN: "It's excellent. If Stan asked me today if i wanted to illustrate a Usagi story for him, I'd do it. it wouldn't look like his Usagi, but it would be fun."
I noticed that the government is as much Jack's enemies as the Kaiju.
DAN: "It's true, but what I believe is the case that they are also neither. The story really doesn't have villains that I can see. Even the monsters are just doing what comes naturally, and when Jack learns that he kills because he is a monster, and not just because the Government ordered and trained him to, you realize that he's just following the path decreed by destiny. And in grand samurai hero style, I thought about killing him off...I really did, but I relented because I want to do more with him and Jill. I think people really dug GK, but I know there are a lot of my fans and comic readers in general who didn't pick it up or who did and didn't 'get it". They just saw a monster bash or whatever and that's too bad. I read several people's comments who said that they thought that at first, but then realized that there was more to it...I feel like I could have picked up the pace a little more, but I also think that if it's read in one sitting, it's probably a better read. People said that about the Nocturnals too. They cited that Black Planet was definitely a better story, and read in the collected form."
Speaking of the Daikaiju, are they a similar race to the Crim from "Black Planet." What I mean is, are they just out to dominate the earth and other worlds like the Crim?
DAN: "I believe the daikaiju in GK are victims of a planetary cataclysm: the wormhole that brings them to earth is probably part of it, part of their unstable galaxy and its something that they've lived with for millions of years. It may account for why some of them are so similar looking to earth animals, and why they're all so different. The wormhole is unstable and probably moves around the universe. It's something I could explore more if GK were a monthly. Maybe in a parallel universe GK is a huge thing and it's being explored-but here it's a DC book that had less than solid numbers." ----
Dan you seem to have a lot of influences. There's Lovecraft, and all kinds of films, what else?
DAN: "Like I said before, Crime fiction, sci-fi, horror. I love the old pulp stuff. Pulps are like the founding fathers of comics. I am gonna digress here for a bit- but to listen to Gil Kane or Howard Chaykin tell the tale, organized crime is responsible. Back when they used huge rounds of wood to hide bootleg whiskey in to crate across the Canadian border to the U.S., they listed the wood as raw materials for printing, and they needed printing equipment and supplies to support their phony claim. So the mob accountants set up these rinky-dink pulp publishing companies as ways to use the materials they were hiding the booze in, and to provide legitimate fronts. That in an of itself, is one helluva story, but its cool when you think about how the two worlds are connected. For me, the Nocturnals kind of combine the horror and crime and fantastic together the way the pulps kind of did.
"I think by now, readers know what motivates or influences me, but as my mom might say, it all comes down to monsters and a fear of the dark I had as a kid. A fear of and a fascination with bad guys. That and super heroes. It's all terribly geeky."
I know BUFFY is dear to your heart, but I also see some X-FILES things in the NOCs world (the government, the science that Doc uses (to an extent).
DAN: "I'm not a big X-Files nut, really. To me, its just an excuse to do the types of stories comics and films have been exploring for years: the unknown, supernatural, aliens, etc,... I tuned out when all the conspiracy stuff got going. I also hate how Carter disavows his own stories: they show you werewolves and demons and monsters, but there's always a rational explanation for things. Or Scully just denies what she saw, etc. It's not so, much like that now, but the series has lost its fire for me. Even when its cool, its still bogged down in too much intrigue and crap...On the flip side, BUFFY is always good. Love that show. It kills me I wasn't approved as an artist, but writing for the comics was a blast."
Why do you think so many artists don't paint their pages as you do?
DAN: "Most of us grew up reading and looking at line art comics, and that's what you learn is the standard. Plus, drawing is easier for most than painting. Also I think there are fewer opportunities to paint than to pen and ink. That's all. It could change with the advent of color computer stuff, but really, painting a book takes longer and goes against the production line ethic needed for monthly books. I couldn't do a monthly painted book. It comes down to that. If they could get a monthly painted book out of a guy like me or Alex or whoever, they'd do more, I'm sure."
I love the look, very realistic, like oil paintings. Do you work from models, photos...
DAN: "Yes, models, friends, family. I shoot references based on thumbnails and sketches, and I go from there. It helps get a lot of things correct and also allows me the ability to stray without losing structure, light pattern. The trick is to not get bogged down and become a slave to the photo ref. It's there to bounce off of, a launch pad. The stuff I do for myself, in my doodle and notebooks, looks doodle , cartoony, expressionistic: I like it, but you can't sell it to fans. So the realistic part of the formula adds that level of craft that I can't do alone. I'm just not that good.
There was and still is to a certain degree a frowning on of the use of photo ref by artists, but its largely a misconception. All good artists who want their stuff to have a credible realism of any kind, will use reference (or scrap as some call it) in their work. Obviously, it takes different forms and some rely on it less than others. But to think you can draw everything out of your head, or copy it from the way another artist did it, is not a creative or learning process. And when a thing is badly drawn, it's badly drawn and it's just too easy to get the reference to avoid that."
Has anyone approached you about doing a NOCTURNALS movie?
DAN: "Yes. I'm working on a screenplay (spec) and there have been lots of nibbles over the years, but no real hard bites. Many execs and producers get bogged down by the density of the story and the characters or they want a free option, etc. I've compressed and adapted the Nocs to work as a film, and am hoping it will get it sold that much faster. If I had more time to devote to it, I think I'd be closer to having it in development, but I want as much control of my property as I can. I am slowly learning that the Biz is full of flakes and wanna-bes. It can be very frustrating. There are other things going on now, but I can't jinx them by talking about them. I happen to believe in jinxing stuff: by discussing it before its' concrete. It's happened so many times."
Would you create a new scenario for the film, or use "Black Planet"?
DAN: "A new scenario based on Black Planet, loosely. Doc is the reluctant member of a society of witches and occultists who track supernatural occurrences. Eve is supposed to be groomed to one day lead this Nocturnal Society, but Doc is against it. He's waging his private war on zombies and monsters, because they killed his wife. When the Raccoon comes to the society to ask them to come and check out their cursed little town in California, it's as a man whose been cursed: he's a beast man. When the society sees this, they agree to check the town out. Doc refuses to go, to bring his daughter as they want, and when the society are all murdered by a mysterious assassin, Doc ends up taking Eve (along with his silent undead, zombie hunting servant, the Gunwitch) to Pacific City, a small town run by an aging gangster. The place is oozing with supernatural energy and it's fast becoming a ghost town. Doc and Eve meet and end up teaming with the town's haunt, Polychrome, a runaway sideshow refugee. Starfish (mysteriously drawn to the town) and eventually, the raccoon to uncover the mystery that plagues the town. There's lots more, but its a classic sort of spooky horror-adeventure and I'm really happy with the way it's coming together as a cinema worthy story. The main dynamic is the relationship between Doc and Eve and this new family of creatures they've gathered together. The crim are in the story, Fane and the Zampa family. Most everything else had to go. But that's okay, the comic still remains!
"I've always thought that its okay for a movie to diverge from the comic as long as it works, and even if it doesn't, the comic-the original material-remains untouched. Someone was saying to me the other day that they hoped Universal doesn't ruin the Grinch with the upcoming movie. But my argument is, how can something as transient and glitzy as a film ruin the book, or the Chuck Jones classic cartoon? Nothing can touch that. I hope that the new film is a critical and financial hit, but if it isn't, it'll be forgotten in a few years and the source material will remain. That's all."
You once said that your plans for the future would be to live off the money made from the hit version of the Nocturnals film/action figures, and to buy a pumpkin farm. Is this still your master plan?
DAN: "Yes. A pumpkin farm, and doing the comics I want at my own pace. It's my fantasy, but so was being a comic book artist when I was young..."
Getting back to the Nocturnals...Witching Hour had some of Halloween Girls' best dialogue. Did you ask Lindsay for ideas as far as what she would say when she encountered the Punkinheads?
DAN: "No, I just sort of ask myself, what would a kid say? I know enough about the kids that I can sort of imagine what the reactions, feelings, and dialogue would or should be. But it seems to work: the kids like reading about her adventures and they like her dialogue."
I find it cool that Doc Horror tries to suppress his beastly side with medication. Safety in science I guess. Does he do this to 1) protect Eve and/or 2) just to control his rage?
DAN: "Both. Imagine if you were like a werewolf or whatever, or you had a Mr.Hyde inside you, but you could hold it in, keep it at bay. You'd want to keep it like that, not let it come out. I think its interesting that Eve's comic hero hero is Jack Howler, a heroic wolf man. That's her dad, basically."
He is a werewolf isn't he...
DAN: "It's not as simple as that. It's a feral, something, yes, but it could be something he picked up from his battles with the Crim, or some other monstrosity they encountered on their adventures. Maybe I'll do a story about it someday, when I get that Pumpkin farm..."
Do you ever intend for Halloween Girl to mature a bit or is she going to remain a preteen? (I think she's great now)...
DAN: "She grows up with Lin, mostly. Next time we see her, she'll be 12 or 13..." ----
And now onto a favorite topic of ours, Snake Plissken. How did you land the Snake Plissken cover Dan?
DAN: "Marvel called me and asked me if I was interested and I was!"
Are you a fan of the character, the Escape films? Snake seems to be your type of anti-hero. Talks little, packs some big guns! (and of course he's a futuristic cowboy).
DAN: "Big fan of Kurt Russell films directed by John Carpenter. THE THING is on my top five all time fave movies. And I have always loved the laconic, enigmatic Snake."
Did you work from photo refs on this one (there was a shot of kurt from EFLA that was similar)...
DAN: "They sent me a few partially useful photos from ESCAPE FROM L.A., but nothing too spectacular. They also art-directed me into a corner, which is too bad. If they'd freed up on the cover image, I think I could have came up with a better image, but it came out alright, I guess." ----
And another favorite subject here at the PO! office is groovy ghoul Rob Zombie. How did you hook up with Rob Zombie, did he contact you about doing work for Hellbilly?
DAN: "Rob got in touch with me when he was still involved with the Crow movie he wrote and was gonna direct. I was hired to do painting of the three or four main characters. They came out nicely, but the project got kiboshed. Rob walked away after two years of their dicking around. After that, we talked about stuff, about my doing art for his album. And then he approached me about doing a Nocs crossover with his "alter ego" zombie persona, which sounded like fun."
Was the 13-13 painting your concept, his or a collaboration.
DAN: "His concept and art direction. Rob said put this and this and this in it, put a haunted house behind them, and '1313' above the door...it was fun. The only thing he asked me to change in the pencil stage was to move some pumpkins. Rob's got great ideas and he's creative and hands on. He's like any comic book creator, really. An artist and a writer."
Can you divulge anything about the Nocturnals/Zombie crossover you both will be working on?
DAN: "It's on hold, for how long, I don't know. Rob wanted to be involved with the project in a direct and collaborative way, which is great but he wants that with everything he does-so when the projects and offers piled up for him, he had to prioritize. His movies, the albums, all that comes first. So the comic project is on hold. I still want to do it some day and I hope he does too."
Can you tell us any of the core story?
DAN: "I can't say too much, but the gist is, one of the Nocturnals has a link to the Zombie, a spook show carnival ringleader killed a century before. He returns, and the Nocs are compromised..."
What's next for you.
DAN: "It's titled JLA: 7 CASKETS. It's a 48 page one shot due out summer of '00 and stars the seven core Leaguers. Its the kind of story you'd expect me to do, and with this project I'll be returning to the horror vibe fans of Nocturnals are used to. It's got a heavy Lovecraftian bent, and deals with revenants of a bygone Age before Man, returning from the dead in the wake of a sleeping chaos god's second coming. The world is steeped in darkness and the JLA find themselves succumbing to the influence of disorder and anarchy as the slumbering god's dreams begin to change the planet. Also featured in the story are the Seven Kings; warrior mages from a time before man, back from the grave, hell-bent on waking their god and remaking the world. The story's main conflict deals with the JLA facing the choice to accept the dark gift of chaos power in order to fight their foes...
"In other words, its the perfect story for me to cut my teeth on the JLA. I haven't done a super hero story of this kind since LEGENDS OF THE WORLD'S FINEST. I'm really excited about working with the DC big guns and getting to throw them into a story that suits my tastes."
This sounds great, it's your own story too correct?
DAN: "I'm writing it all by myself. I tried to come up with a story that would warrant my doing a JLA book... glad it intrigues you!"