You've called for a total change in the Constitution. Do you have an alternative in mind?
Democracy is not a new concept for us. Democratic institutions have been there ever since the Vedic period. Even during that period, the king was elected every two years. And the electorate would be workers, artisans, etc. At that time, there used to be small states. Parampujyaniya Guruji (M.S. Golwalkar) had also spoken about an 'integral constitution' in which the lowest unit would be the all-powerful panchayat.

Are you saying that the structure of grampanchayats should be changed?
In those days, the grampanchayat used to get its mandate from religious scriptures (dharmashastras). Our scriptures have defined what kind of state apparatus we should have. So, grampanchayats had their rights according to the scriptures. What is happening today is that either the central or state governments grants authority to the grampanchayats. State governments talk about more autonomy but they are not ready to give autonomy to grampanchayats under them. We are saying that the basic unit should be the grampanchayat...

And it will draw authority from the dharmashastras?
Dharmashastras mean that the Constitution we frame will be our dharmashastra. Dharmashastras were the code of our social conduct that covered all issues including business and financial matters. It was not only about puja-path (rituals of worship).

Why is there so much apprehension about the RSS?
All apprehensions were created by politics. What have people done from the very beginning except abusing us? Because the RSS is a power (to reckon with), people oppose it. The Hindu Mahasabha's even more vitriolic, why does nobody pay them attention? Because they lack power. Our opponents and their entire politics is based on anti-Hinduism and the best way to abuse Hindus is to attack the RSS. This, they feel, will get them Muslim votes.

How long will it go on?
It will continue as long as this politics of votes continues and as long as this Westminster model exists.

But voting system is a prerequisite in a democratic system...
As I said, we can have a grampanchayat system. There can be general consensus at that level. And as far as upper units like janapad (district) etc are concerned, we can have indirect election (with nobody campaigning in favour of one party or the other).

Do you agree with the Vajpayee government's economic policies?
We fully understand the compulsions before the Vajpayee-led coalition. All the allies do not see eye-to-eye on all matters. Previous administrations signed some treaties like gatt and WTO and because governance is a continual process, the government will have to remain committed to that. There are many officers and advisors in the government who still believe in the old economics and do not understand the emerging global thinking. They believe that only the western model of development is good. We believe that the western model is based on exploitation and an exploitation-free society cannot be achieved through that. Developed nations have created institutions like the WTO to protect their development.

Are you saying the set of advisors Vajpayee has should go?
We think that they should remain but people with new thinking should also be taken in. There are many people, like Bharat Jhunjhunwala, who have nothing to do with the Sangh. Gandhian people also represent this thinking that we should take a path of development based on our resources and necessities. Swadeshi is not only about using indigenous things. America wants to implement its reality everywhere. There are only 1 per cent farmers in America. Agriculture has been corporatised there and now it wants to corporatise the whole of India. We have passed a resolution asking for a round-table conference on economic issues. We have asked the government to invite all the organisations to that and let's have an open discussion.

The call to scrap the Constitution can be seen as anti-Dalit...
In our ancient grampanchayats all (castes) had their representation. The social ill of untouchability came much later. We have such a long history full of ups and downs. If we are going to highlight only the negative period then it will paint a dark picture. So we should look at the brighter side of it. All the ancient rules and regulations cannot be implemented; we will have to give it a new shape according to the changed times.

You have said that one day, whoever comes to power will have to accept the RSS demands. Can you elaborate?
We are saying that if we prepare the masses, the government will have to accept the public's demand. The main question is of mass awakening. Otherwise what was the need for Sonia Gandhi to say in the function of Ramakrishna Mission that Hinduism is a liberal religion and if democracy is thriving in this country it is because Hindus are in a majority? What have we been saying? We have also been saying the same thing. When we say it, we become communal. And if Sonia says it, she becomes secular.

Dattopant Thengari has said that certain decisions of the government pertaining to information technology will compromise our security. Do you agree?
Whatever Thengari has said is correct but I have not studied this matter so far. But in our last conference in Varanasi, we opposed DTH (direct-to-home) through which (Rupert) Murdoch was trying to come to India. DTH has not been introduced but efforts are afoot. In information technology, new things are coming up every day. We will have to decide which is good for our country.

Why do the government's allies use the RSS as the whipping boy?
They've their votebanks. Today, everything moves on the basis of the votebank. All know they were never in our favour. So they thought if the discussion took place under Rule 193, it will be okay. We do feel that even if the division had taken place, the government would not have fallen.

Some feel that you don't have a fine equation with Vajpayee...
Aap log apne apne dhang se likhte hein to likhiye. Aisa bilkul nahin hai (You write in your own style, but that's not true). We understand the compulsion before the Vajpayee government and its limitations. So it may appear for some time that we differ...and we are not bothered about that. In our work, we think of 25 years ahead whereas the government has to take decisions on a day-to-day basis. So at times you people see apparent contradictions. We are creating an atmosphere through public awakening, in which not only the Vajpayee government but any government that comes to power will have to accept our thinking.

I had to warn him (Dr Shyama Prasad Mookerjee) that the RSS could not be drawn into politics, that it could not play second fiddle to any political or other party, since no organisation devoted to the wholesale regeneration of the real, that is cultural, life of the Nation could ever function if it was to be used as a handmaid of political parties."
-M.S. Golwalkar in Organiser (June 25, 1956)

Words and characters may have changed. But four-and-a-half decades after this warning was issued, in another day and age, its essence rings as true and disturbing as ever. Atal Behari Vajpayee was just settling into his third stint as prime minister-with only a few symbolic reverses to blot five balmy months in power-when Golwalkar's prophetic caveat has come back to haunt him. Not directly and in so many words, perhaps. Rather, it comes in the shape of a radical action plan that aims to bring to fruit the whole RSS philosophy, even at the risk of rocking the boat of its political offspring, the BJP.

The disruptive potential of this aggressive Hindutva agenda is clear. Golwalkar's words had encoded the basic dichotomy in purpose of the RSS and its political wing. But it was largely a hypothetical thing in those formative days; since the BJP is the ruling party now, what was theory then is now practice. Aware of the dangers of a direct and immediate war of attrition, the two swayamsevaks-Sudarshan and Vajpayee, not known for any particular liking for each other-are circling each other cautiously, making soothing noises while sizing up the other. The former, after his initial bombast, acknowledged the "compulsions" before the government. The prime minister, on his return journey from Mauritius, sought to make light of the looming threat. "Don't worry, we will have a good relationship with the RSS," he said, while conceding "certain aspects" of globalisation needed a rethink.

But the signals are clear. The RSS evinces a stony resolve that, in coming months, it won't remain a mute spectator to the goings-on in and outside the government, particularly on the economic front. All the 'apolitical' affiliates of the RSS-the Swadeshi Jagaran Manch (SJM), the Bharatiya Kisan Sangh (BKS) and the vhp-have decided to come out of their strategic hibernation. Their stance vis-a-vis the NDA regime will now be critical and insistently demanding. The objective is two-fold: keep afloat their own credibility in the public eye and among the cadre; and keep the PM and the government on tenterhooks so the BJP does not overshadow the mother organisation.

A game played out so before the world will leave Vajpayee and his Cabinet colleagues little room for manoeuvre. At one level, they can't afford to ignore a strident RSS. At another, they'll find it difficult to go back on their commitment to economic reforms with any degree of credibility. The dilemma of being in government was best articulated by i&b minister Arun Jaitley while returning from Nagpur after paying obeisance to the new RSS chief. Jaitley confided to friends: "It's very easy for a journalist to write or a political-social organisation (sic) to pass resolutions against privatisation but when you sit in the government you feel the real heat."

One big problem for Vajpayee is that the RSS virtually mind-controls a substantial number of BJP MPs; even some top leaders consider themselves swayamsevaks first and MPs later. If it comes to the crunch, the RSS might exploit this 'subversive' element. Virendra Singh, a Sudarshan protege and former BJP MP from Mirzapur, said at a recent SJM meeting in Vrindavan: "Gol ghar mein kanoon bante hein lekin woh janata ke virodh mein ho to janata unhe sadkon par tod deti hai. Emergency mein aisa hua aur aage bhi ho sakta hai (Laws are enacted in Parliament but if they are anti-people laws, the people break them on the streets. It happened during the Emergency and it might happen again)."

However, a measure of restraint is visible in Sudarshan's criticism of the government. That's because the RSS wants to exert a corrective influence, not topple the government and see it replaced by a worse enemy, Sonia Gandhi. VHP leader Ashok Singhal told Outlook: "Is sarkaar ka girna kisike bhi hith mein nahin hai (The fall of this government will be for nobody's good)." Therefore, the Sangh juggernaut aims to take on Vajpayee vigorously-like an ombudsman at large-but will tend to stop short of pulling down the government.

To appease Sudarshan and Co, Vajpayee will have to relent on certain aspects. For starters, he could concede Sudarshan's demand to take pro-swadeshi economists in advisory roles. Simultaneously, he'll have to recast his economic agenda so as to make it look more swadeshi-friendly-weaving in a few elements and putting a new spin on policymaking. For, it's clear that under Sudarshan, the RSS won't be satisfied with just a "cultural agenda". Swadeshi-that is, a militant version of Gandhi's vision of a locally-rooted, self-reliant economy-is now integral to the RSS plan.

It was during the tenure of Rajju Bhaiyya-a pragmatist and a withdrawn figure in the old mould-that the BJP-led government acquired the image of being tough enough to defy the swadeshi code. It was precisely to mark a clear break from this indulgent stance that Sudarshan openly blackmarked some advisors of the government as anti-swadeshi. Everybody knew Vajpayee's trusted lieutenants like Pramod Mahajan and Jaitley, among others, were now directly exposed to RSS wrath.

No wonder Jaitley was among the first people (along with Madan Lal Khurana) to fly down to Nagpur to seek Sudarshan's "blessings". Jaitley was perceived to have fallen out of favour after he cleared Deepa Mehta's controversial Water script and presided over the disinvestment of PSUS like Modern Foods. Khurana had lost his place in government as well as in the Sangh's good books when he raised the flag of rebellion and launched an open attack on "pseudo Hindutva" forces in the RSS.

All these were asides to the main script. A lot of brainstorming preceded the wake-up call sounded from Nagpur. Just before the pratinidhi sabha began at Sangh HQ, Sudarshan, Dattopant Thengari and other key figures-along with "experts invited from different fields"-were huddled in Vrindavan for three days to chalk out a plan to assert swadeshi. Before that, even Rajju Bhaiyya had put out a cautionary endnote at the BKS national convention at Hastinapur, near Meerut. "We've no expectation from this government. It does not have the capacity to take on the danger posed by MNC's out to destroy our agriculture. We'll have to fight against them."

Clearly, Rajju Bhaiyya was under some pressure. The hawks had prevailed upon him to verbally distance the Sangh from its political wing after it became clear that even BJP governments couldn't lend the RSS the respectability it sought. The RSS had to face humiliation in Gujarat. When the Opposition (and even allies) created too much of a shindig in Parliament, BJP general secretary K.N. Govindacharya and fellow troubleshooter Venkiah Naidu airdashed to Gujarat to "convince" Keshubhai Patel to rescind his controversial order on allowing government employees to join the RSS.

Govindacharya, a Sangh pracharak and hardliner himself, landed in Nagpur from Gujarat to attend the pratinidhi sabha as the lone BJP representative. Here, the hawks voiced the view that a government bound by parliamentary compulsions shouldn't be supported beyond a point, especially when it couldn't convince even allies on matters relating to the RSS. Otherwise, it'd spawn a perception that the RSS is desperate to cling to power, an idea despised by old-timers.

There's a history to this troubled relationship. The first salvo came in 1998 from the SJM and parivar affiliates like the VHP joined the chorus. It reached a crescendo when RSS patriarch and ideologue Thengari led a dharna at Jantar Mantar in the capital against the government's "pro-mnc, anti-swadeshi" policies and called Vajpayee a petty politician.

Things then got worse for Vajpayee when old activists of the ABVP, the RSS student wing, launched an attack on him at a Mumbai conference and even called him a "nikamma" (good for nothing). Somehow, Vajpayee managed to buy peace with Big Brother. The terms of the rapprochement was that the sanghis wouldn't meddle in economic matters-the "cultural" field was left open to keep the cadre engaged. A sudden spurt in attacks on missionaries was then witnessed.

There are stronger reasons why Sudarshan desperately wants to take the RSS out from the quagmire of being perceived as a confused "pichhlaggu" (tag-along) of the government which can't "decide which way to go". And here lies the great dilemma of its strategists: the RSS doesn't want to be seen as being in collusion with the government for then its swadeshi plank will look an absolute farce. At the same time, it also knows the government can't be forced into withdrawing from the WTO. The easy way out is to target bureaucrats and advisors of the government, sparing the political leadership unless it is absolute necessary.

Muralidhar Rao, SJM convenor, spelt out this approach to Outlook: "We won't hesitate to criticise the government on account of its advisors.... It is surrounded by people who don't share the swadeshi vision of economy and development." The occasional scalp or two from the bureaucratic corps-minor but high-profile-will suffice for the Sangh to keep its currency in circulation.

A more ominous aspect came in Sudarshan's direct attack on Muslims. If his maiden speech as RSS chief was any indication, he would like to see the Sangh at its old aggressive best, a rollback to the late '80s and early '90s. Taking off on a strident note, Sudarshan harked back to the genesis of the Sangh and recalled how Dr K.B. Hedgewar questioned Gandhi when the latter spoke of Hindu-Muslim unity. Quoting Hedgewar, the sarsanghchalak said: "Agar aap keval Hindu-Muslim ekta ki baat karenge to isse Mussalmaanon ka dimag aur chadh jayega (If you talk of Hindu-Muslim unity, it will only spoil Muslims further)."

He went on to recall how Hedgewar was not ready to call the Muslims anti-national because, in his opinion, Muslims did not believe in the nation so they can't even be called anti-national. "They can only be called aliens," thundered Sudarshan. Attacking the policies of the Congress during the freedom struggle, he held Gandhi squarely responsible for appeasing the Muslims. "When Swami Shradhhanand was murdered by a Muslim youth, Gandhiji refused to hold him guilty."

That a fresh move for polarisation on the lines of pro- and anti-Hindu feelings is under way becomes evident with Sudarshan's interview in RSS mouthpiece Organiser, in which he predicts "an epic war between Hindus and anti-Hindu forces". The renewed thrust on anti-Muslim rhetoric, a subject close to the RSS heart, is a shift back from the anti-Christian image it acquired over the last two or three years. After the fruits of Ayodhya were reaped in New Delhi, the RSS had diverted its attention to Christian missionary activities, showing them as subversive or anti-national. Since all its energy was being spent on this newfound foe, it was inferred that the RSS didn't want to open up the old front against Muslims.

This tactical softening-coupled with the face-loss in Gujarat and the sense of helplessness in the face of the Centre's liberalisation policies-hastened the reactionary growth of hardliners within the RSS. Vajpayee is reported to have convinced a sympathetic Rajju Bhaiyya to continue at the helm. The change of guard would have been put off but for the rescinding of the Gujarat circular. The hardliners argued that if the RSS didn't change its posture, its image would be damaged. Sudarshan even shared this view with friends in Kathmandu where he'd gone on a scheduled visit before Nagpur.

The stand-off came into public view at a function organised by RSS mouthpiece Panchajanya last month, where Sudarshan stressed the need to give preference to Hindi but Vajpayee snubbed him. With Rajju Bhaiyya at the helm then, Vajpayee dared to advise the Sangh affiliates not to cross the lakshman rekha. The new chief knows an immediate reaction to the snub won't be prudent, so he may not unleash all the forces under his control-having put the government on notice, he's likely to watch every move in the coming months. If Vajpayee wants to avert a showdown, he'll have to accept the RSS role of 'Rajguru'. That's the only way he can get a good-boy certificate from Nagpur