Fellow Mog-o-philes: Many thanks to the folks who have responded to my initial inquiries into the ways and means of kingpin/bushing replacements on the front of my beloved 4/4. I've reviewed John Blair's description of the process as well as Fred Sisson's in his book "Notes..." The parts have arrived as of last night and I think I'll get at least the disassembly phase done this coming weekend. I'm tracking down a machine shop that will do the honeing. Unfortunately, I didn't receive some of your advice on king pins until after I ordered a set supplied by the factory. That's okay. While I wouldn't want to classify my car as a garage queen, it doesn't get more than 3-4000 miles on it a year and with the gaitors that Fred suggests, I'm hoping for a long term repair here. One more question before I jump into this: Both John B. and Fred S. suggest the use of a sort of home made apparatus for slowly relieving or restoring the tension in the main springs. I have seen spring compressors in auto parts stores/departments and am wondering if these commercially available items will do the trick. They are a variation on the idea of John's tool, with 'hooks' at both ends of a long threaded rod, the hooks being adjustable with a nut, to compress or decompress a spring. One concern I have is that the springs on my 4/4 are reletively narrow in diameter, compared to the MGB (the only other car I've done front end work on). With the B I simply used a floor jack, and it worked (tho there were some nervous moments and I'm sure that if that spring had taken off on its own I'd need plastic surgery now (some close friends will argue I need it anyway)). Anyway, that was a bit spooky and I don't relish doing it again. I want to use some sort of spring compressor and wonder simply if those available at autoparts stores are up to the task. It doesn't have to be art (Fred's proposal is a very clever one!), but... Many thanks, Will Zehring ---------------------------- Will, You DON'T need a spring compressor. In fact, I have both an internal and external compressors. They won't work on the Morgan due to the size of the spring. When I rebuilt the front end on my Morgan back in 88, we got the old springs out very easily. However, we couldn't get the new ones in. So my dad and I made a special spring compressor. However, that didn't work either. It turns out that the spare set of springs I had were for a +4 and not the 4/4. The +4's springs are about 1 to 2" shorter than the 4/4 springs and have more energy stored. Once I found that out, I re-installed my original 4/4 springs with no problems. John ---------------------------------------------- > >> Will > > > >I've used both the floor jack and the screw method. This is to > >control the release of the energy in the spring. While using the > >screws to lower the bottom plate and release the energy could be > >construed as a spring compressor, when I say you DON'T need a > >spring compressor, I'm talking about the internal or external > >compressors that cost about $35 each. All you need is the 2 bolts. > >I've been contacted by some of the fellows in Australia, and they > >replace the king pin bolt and then slowly unscrew it to release the > >spring tension. > > > >John > > Okay, I follow you know. I'm a bit slow on the take up, I guess. Let me > make sure I understand one other thing: in your experience the commercial > spring compressors don't fit on the 4/4's springs? > > sorry for the hassle here but many thanks for your time! Will, That's correct!!!!!! No problem, that's why we are all here!!! John ---------------------------------------------------- > Okay, its me again: One more question: As long as I'm dismantleing the > front end of me mog, should I replace the shocks while I'm at it? I have > NO indication that they are bad, OTOH there is an element of convenience in > doing such a replacement now... (?) Will, It won't hurt, however, the shocks are easily replaced anytime. While you're in there, though, you might want to think about putting a reinforcing bar in both the upper and lower horizontal tubes. This way, if the tube were to break, there would be something to hold the suspension together for a little while. John ----------------------------------------- Anyway, back to the front end (so to speak). I thought that a bit of an update would be diverting for one or two of you, and then, of course, I have several new questions that I'd appreciate getting some feedback on. Actually, the disassembly went pretty easily, considering the copious quantities of grease and road grit that I dealt with. I used the tried and true method of Our Man John, described in his tech page, and it worked fine. I employed a pair of threaded rods, as per Mr. B., to gradually loosen the springs. This was made a tad easier by using a ratcheted box wrench. I was hung up for a time by the discovery of odd sized bolts holding the calipers to the hub. I suspected that Our Man Whitworth had reared his ugly head here. Tragically, I don't own a set of Whitworth sockets/wrenches (gotta do something about that, see below). Fortunately, Our Man Joe (my local lbc mechanic) does, and he actually loaned me his for a short time (under pain of death if I didn't return them, which I did) and the calipers came off double quick. The only other hassle was the brass (?) fitting of the right-hand side one shot: I managed to split the line unscrewing the fitting (this after the PO had rounded the head of the fitting itself, so I used vice grips (a tool of ignorance). It was ugly but effective. I haven't ever used my one-shot (so to speak) and don't intend to in the future, so its not a death blow here but I will still see about either a new pipe or repairing the fitting. Otherwise, just lots and lots and lots of grease and grit to wash off. Its the adult version of finger painting (something Our Man Bob might enjoy, come to think of it). ;-) So, the spindles, bushings and kingpins are in line at the machine shop for pressing and honing, and I contemplate my next move. I had debated replacing the shocks, as long as I was there and the front end was in bits but there's nothing wrong with my shocks and I sort of hate to fix something that isn't broken. While all of this front end stuff is going on I need to take a closer look at my steering box. I reported earlier on a leak at the seal there. I now am in posession of a new seal and intend to replace it. All of this leads to the following questions: 1. Any experience out there with the dismantling of the steering box? (I haven't seen it mentioned on the tech pages; I suspect its one of those things no one ever has to do.) 2. Any suggestions on a supplier of whitworth sockets/box wrenches? 3. It it remotely possible that reassembly is the reverse of disassembly? Well, that's about all for now. cheers, Will Zehring --------------------------------- Will, it's been done by some. However, not too much you can do in thar. So far, I've been lucky and haven't had to open mine up. BTW, anybody noticed the little rubber button about 1/2 way up the steering column tube? If you pull on it, it will come off. Know why? You are supposed to add some erl (fer ya yanks - I guess it's oil) to keep the seals moist and the steering box full. I think Fred has an article in his book on adjusting the steering box loading. (I think I mention it in the article on front end vibration also - I lifted Fred's info - with his permission). > 2. Any suggestions on a supplier of whitworth sockets/box wrenches? I got my from SNAP-ON about 25 years ago. There is a place on the Net: British BSW & BSF bolts, studs, etc. (hard to find) http://www.majon.com/www/british.html you might try them. > 3. It it remotely possible that reassembly is the reverse of disassembly? Basically, yes!! Check Gerry's article: "It's what's up Front that Counts". I think he discusses adjusting the dampener plates and the cross tie bars. That's the only thing that isn't obvious. John -------------------------------------- William Zehring wrote: > > Fellow mog-o-philes: > > I have the newly driven and honed bearings back from the machine shop and > am about ready to start putting the front end back together on me mog. One > question: is there a particluar lube that is best to use during this > assembly phase? I have the regular black grease but I'm not sure thats the > best thing to use?? > William, "Honed?" or Reamed? If they were finished with honing, be certain you flush ALL of the abrasive out of the tube before assembly. Otherwise you will be back doing this long before you want to. I would recommend your normal chassis grease for assembly. It is somewhat important to stick with the same lube as they can react with each other... Get it back on the road... Geo. 63 +4 --------------------------------- At 08:36 AM 7/28/97 -0400, William Zehring wrote: >Fellow mog-o-philes: > >... I completed the front end rebuild without event, other than a rather >stupid accident I had involving a hydraulic floor jack..... Will, glad to hear you got it done! Not too bad a job once you've done it before or have some guidance as to how to do it! >... Though my front end shimmy is not completely eradicated, it is > diminished by a great deal, such that cruising in the 50-65 mph range > doesn't rattle my eyeballs like it did before. Check out the article on front end vibration. A couple of additional hint in that one. Are you running bias or radial tires? Last summer I put a set of bias tires on the front of mine and my vibration went away. There was quite some discussion at that time about the radial vs the bias tires. Many of the fellows are running radials without much problems. One other thing, try not to drive in the vibration zone. Now that you have a new front end. If you get much vibration, it can cause excessive wear on the parts you just installed. >Two things I noticed that I'd appreciate comment on: >--the steering seems a tad stiffer after reassembly >--the car doesn't easily return to straight ahead forward motion after a >turn, like it used to. Could be a result of: 1. tighter fit of the bushings on the kingpins, 2. tighter fit on the dampener blades, 3. and the toe in. I think I have some info on DIY front end alignments in some of the front end articles or the one on front end vibrations. Keep em rolling!! John