At 06:41 PM 12/15/97 EST, Wildbil923 wrote:
>I'm now doing a test fitting of the sheet metal. I notice, when the
>bonnet halves are down and latched that each half makes metal to metal
>contact with the wings (fenders) sort of mid-way along the length of
>the bonnets. The Mog I'm restoring has a new chassis frame and valances
>so it's certainly possible that the combination of old and new parts has
>affected the fit of things. My question: Is metal to metal contact
>between the bonnet halves and wings normal? If so, has anyone come up
>with a clever way to protect the paint on these two parts?
Bill,
Welcome to the fun world of restoring a Morgan. Unlike anything else.
No, the bonnet halves should NOT touch the top of the fenders. In fact
there should be a "uniform" gap of 1/4 to 1/2" or so. I don't have my
car here so I can't measure it.
If your valances are "too tall" that might account for the problem. If
you have the old valances, measure the height at several places along the
lenght and measure the height of the new ones at the same locations. If
they are the same height, then possibly you bonnett is too tall/wide.
Again, measure the old hood against the new one.
It is NOT uncommon for replacement parts not to fit. On my car, when I
ordered a new 1/4 panel from the Factory, it turned out to be about 1" to
short. So I have a 1" strip from an old beer can about 1/2 way across
the door where the rear 1/4 and the cowl meet.
Another problem of bonnet fit, is how does it fit between the nose and
the cowel? On my car, one side sits too far aft, the other side sits
too far forward. The result is that on the rear of one side, the hood
lacing shows on the cowl and the bonnet sits on top of the nose. The
other side is the opposite.
I've tried to find someone to write a good article about the fitting of
both the bonnet and one on fitting the doors. Both of these areas are
usually a problem in a restoration.
I've written several of the restorers looking for pointers and got no
responce. If memory serves me correctly, Fred Sissons was the only one
to respond to the problem of the hood. He told me that he welds a
additional piece on the front of the hood to get the fit correct and
then trims it to fit.
Hope this is of some help.
John
------------------------------------------
Bill
I think John has hit the nail on the head regarding replacement panels
needing "adjusting" .The last car I did which required new valances had
the same contact problem. I choose to undo the rolled wire in the bonnet
and redo the bonnet edge. My advise would be NOT to take that route. If
needed I'd modify the valance .
Having said that here are some points to check before you break out the five
LBS hammer to start 'adjusting 'the valance;
You said " trial fit ' , if by that you mean ' not all nuts bolts and screws
fitted and tightened , that could be the problem. The bar which runs
between valances behind the radiator, if not attached, will permit the
fenders to lay outward and close up the gap between the bonnet and wing.
Also the fenders take a dip right where you are experiencing contact. If
the screws are not attached the fender could be bridging the dip .
If you grab the front cowl on the sides and squeeze in ( screws not ,or
loosely attached) you'll find the bonnet rises .
All this also works to adjust the bonnet gaps. The problem comes with
getting the bonnet , fenders, cowls and valances to all fit together nicely.
My answer was to make all screw holes oval so I had adjustment room. Once I
had every thing fitting perfectly I drilled alignment holes between the
key pieces so when I have to remove a fender or cowl I can reinstall it
without all the adjusting.
A s for Johns request for information on adjusting the bonnet gap, well
that's like knotting a tie, Its something that I can do in my sleep (
come to think of it I do most of the time) but like everyone else, I could
not talk some one through it).*
Now let me get back to that posting regarding the high speed problem with
the +8 . there's got to be a good way to gig Will in that one .
Bob Nogueira
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I might add that in my experience- I don't paint the bonnet untill the rest of
the car is painted and bolted together- hard & tight. Only then do I fit the
bonnet. As Bob said- you can do quite a bit of "adjustment" by squeezing &
massaging the cowl position to set the back lines.
I haven't had the fenderline problem (yet) but I agree with Bob- rolling the
wire edge is pretty tough work- and re-wireing has gotta be tougher!
I have yet to put one together that did not benifit from trimming or adding
to- the front edge of the bonnet. I also like to roll the front edge down
slightly- about 1/8 inch radius. Looks a lot more finished than a flat edge.
Not hard to do. The Mog sheet metal works very easly.
Also- a last adjustment should be the brass ends on the center hinge strip.
Make SURE that the bonnet does not slide fore & aft in the strip. "Cuz if it
can- it will& it'll eat the paint when it slides. The fold on the bonnet must
touch the brass to keep it from sliding.
Only then do I have the bonnet painted.
Door adjustment is largely a matter of shimming behind the hinges. Bolting it
hard- looking & thinkin'... then unbolting, shimming, tightening & thinkin'
again. I have spent the best part of a day on one door. It is a lot more
positive if you use new hinges with no slop. I have also drilled & fitted
oversize pins as hinges are a bit pricy.
Fred Sisson
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At 09:48 PM 9/6/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Another question for the knowledgeable
>I have just finished re-installing the rad after having the rad
>re-cored. To remove the rad I first removed the grill, shroud/surround,
>and hood. Now that the rad is re-installed and all the pieces back in
>place I find that the hood is travelling slightly forward and fretting
>the paint on the shroud/surround. My question is, "Why is this
>happening and what can I do to prevent the hood from moving forward?"
>
Toad,
This is a very common problem with the Morgans.
I guess the 1st thing we have to understand is how the hood is held in
place in the 1st place. If you look closely at the underside of the hood,
at the front, near the hing, you will see a little "L" reinforcement of
metal. There is usually a similar piece in the rear. These
reinforcements rub against the brass end caps for the hinge. Therefore
the brass caps sort-of control the location of the hinge.
In your case it is possible that you reversed the 2 end caps (put the
front one in the rear and the rear one in the front).
There are 2 possible fixes:
1. You will have to loosen all the screws that hold the nose to the
front fenders and vallance. Then try to push the nose around until
you get a nice fit.
2. The other fix deals with the hood and or the end caps. You need to
identify how the hood needs to be set. Each side can be adjusted
independently. Lets say for instance that the drivers sides is
sitting too far forward. Slide it to the rear for a nice fit. Did
it hit the rear hinge cap?
If it is hitting the rear hinge cap, and is not fitting nicely, great!
You will need to measure the distance from the end of the front end
cap to the hinge reinforcement. This much new brass will have to be
added to the hing cap. This can be done if several ways:
a. purchase a new end cap, and cut off a section just longer than
you need. Then try to either solder or brase the extension to the
original end cap.
b. simply build up the existing end cap by adding brass by brasing.
Check the fit, and grind off the excess.
Above I asked if the rear of the hinge was hitting the back cap. If not
you will have to add some brass to it also.
Check both sides of the hood so you can try to make the patch piece that
will work for both sides of the hood.
The other method is to extend the metal "L" on the hood. But since most
of us have our hoods painted, the welding of an extension onto the hood
would result in having to repaint the hood. Most of us don't want to
do that.
Hope this helps
John
-----------------------------------------------------
Dear Ken,
I don't like your chances of removing the firewall without taking the wings
and probably the body off the car first. The way the factory puts the car
together the firewall goes on first, then the inner wings and the body. The
area around the bottom, where all these bits meet up is filled with lots of
nice waterproof goo, (silicone or Sikaflex in modern cars and something
more primitive in the older ones. There is no doubt a bead of this stuff
aroung the edge where the firewall meets with the wood frame as well. All
of this has to be cut with a knife before removal is possible. All the
wiring harness, steering column and other bits and pieces attached to the
firewall will also have to be removed. As you can see this is starting to
get bigger than Ben Hur.
I would have a close look at the bottom of the firewall from inside the
car. If you don't see any rust bubbles then I would be inclined to leave
well enough alone. Once you start on this path you are more than likely to
find yourself with a completely dismantled car and a long and expensive
rebuild in front of you (the voice of bitter experience).
If you do find rust at the bottom of the firewall it is possible to have
this cut out and repaired without removing the lot (a professional job). I
would guess that if the firewall is really rusty then the inner wings also
need attention and probably the chassis. Could be dry rot in the wood as
well! Do I seem to be going round in cirles?
Cheers
Steve Moore
>While the car is down to fix a simple vibration hunt (found a bad trans
>mount), I decided to clean up the toolbox/battery plate/firewall area. The
>toolbox & battery palte are off & both are a wee bit rusty. The firewall
>looks to be in amazingly good shape, all things considered.
>
>While I'm doing this, I'd like to pull the firewall & clean & paint it
>properly. Can this be done without taking the wings off and without pulling
>the engine? Anything a rookie Mog owner should know, that I'm likely to
>overlook?
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Ken Payne
>'63 Plus 4 4 seater