Name: EFSTRATIOS CONSTAS
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From: TRIANGLE CHURCH (DURHAM)
Time: 1998-11-10 20:12:04
Comments: THANK YOU, IT'S GOOD TO SEE THAT YOU HAVE PUT STORIES OF BROTHERS AND SISTERS FROM THE DIFFERENT CHURCHES. SO MUCH ANTI-CHURCH IT'S PATHETIC. GOOD TO SEE THAT YOU DID THIS! YBC, STRATIS
Name: Eze Ukadike
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From: Athens.GA
Time: 1998-10-26 19:09:14
Comments: I am a member of the ICC, I truley believe in God, and want to do great things for him. I belive with all my heart that the ICC is the Kingdom talked about in the bible. However, that does not make it perfect. To all you former disciples who persecute, you are cowards. You hide behinde the internet becuse you didn't have the courage to change anything. you don't have what it takes to make a difference in anything you do. I have been a disciple 4 years, and in that time I almost fell away, I too had many of the same feelings, and arguments that you have, but I had the guts to stick with the truths. See, being a member if the ICC doesn't make you a christian and isn't gonna get you to heaven. Being a disciple of christ is gonna get you to heaven. That means loving people enough to help them; people in the church you view as brain washed as well as people you see who aren;t living by the bible. You think that relationships in the kingdom are shallow, well what you do to make them real; you think a leader is wrong, and doing or saying something not from the bible, well when did you get in his/her face and tell them what you felt; you think your discipler is trying to run your life when was the last time you told them no; you think that a leader in your ministry isn't living up to his/her title when did you decide to step up and take control of your ministry. Anybody can sit in a corner like a sissy, but it takes a hero to step up and change things. Martin Luther King jr., Gandhi, Lincoln, Mother Teressa. These are the heros in the history books, and everyone of us has the chance to be a hero. Yet not all of us have the heart or stamina to be a hero. My question to the discples who fell is why weren't you a hero? Because if there was truly something wrong with your ministry why didn't you change it? If you did try to change it why didn't you stick with it? The answer is pretty simple. Sin, you either wanted to go off and indulge sex, drugs, alcohol, greed, etc. or you were so selfish and such a coward that you didn' try to help other brothers and sisters, See the real problem with the church is people like you. you see all the problems and you can point them out, but you don't get in there and fix them. Finally, you can disregard everything I say. you can still that think that the ICC is a cult bent on controling the minds of as many people as possible. you can point the finger and accuse. Instead why don't you take a look at your life the sin you're in and ask yourself; Am I ;not the ICC or my friend or my ex region leader or my bible talk leader or my eveangelist; But I. Am I right with God? because if you aren't you better focus on yourself instead of others.
Sounds like a typical example of blaming peoples' leaving the ICC on their own sins rather than the abuses of the church. Also, you think we didn't first try to convince the ICC that something was wrong with their teachings or practices before leaving? A lot of us did, only to find that the leaders wouldn't listen. And yes, I believe I am "right with God", more so than when I was in the ICC.
Name: Kristi
Website:
Referred by: Yahoo!
From: Montana
Time: 1998-09-30 21:49:10
Comments: To all of the "Godly" men and women who have written here, that so diligently persue such a fufilling cause, I would like to share with you what MY bible says in Titus 3:9 - "But avoid foolish contriversies and geneologies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless." You might want to redirect some of that energy into something a little more profitable and usefull (or at least on something that CAN be stopped). Then to all you disciples out there... Let's remember OUR purpose, the MOST profitable and usefull one there is. So chalk this stuff up as Jus S'more O dat silly persecution He promised us would happen, and get outta here so you can go and make disciples of ALL nations. Remember people... "The Kingdom of heaven is forcefully advancing, and FORCEFULL men lay hold of it." Only ignorance and hate is forcefully advancing through garbage like this. AMEN?
Many former members got the impression that the ICC was almost entirely about "foolish controversies" and "quarrels of the law," at least when it wasn't about proselytizing and raising money for Special Missions Contribution. I've heard of them rebuking members for such minor incedents as crossing one's arms during a church service. If only they'd listen to this verse then...
The second Scripture she is quoting the latter half of Matthew 11:12. However, I'll read the whole verse in context, Matthew 11:11-15, which is part of a speech by Jesus. "I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist, yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of Heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear." It seems like Kristi isn't exactly quoting this verse in its context.
Name: Justin Roykovich
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From: North New Jersey COC (ICOC)
Time: 1998-07-12 05:14:19
Comments: I was confused. Was this for or against the ICOC? But anyway, I am a DISCIPLE and I love it. I am 17 and have been a disciple for almost 3 years. None of the "spititual pornography" against the ICOC could ever discourage me in the slightest way. Infact it makes me see how awesome the church is because Satan wouldn't be trying to stop it if it wasn't turning the world upside down! But anyway, to all those Disciples out there, YOU ALL ROCK! P.S. No, I am not brainwashed, they did not show me any movies with hidden messages in them or anything. And no, I am not following my discipling partner blindly. Just because I value his opinion as a friend, and might chose his course of action doesn't mean I am a blind follower. Oh, and Kip, YOU ARE AWESOME!
Name: Pete
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From: nelpe@hotmail.com
Time: 1998-04-28 02:47:07
Comments: EVERYBODY: ALL WHO FELL AWAY ARE JUST TELLING COMPLAINTS, THEY WERE NOT
STRONG ENOUGH TO BE IN THE FAITH. EVEN JESUS SAID: IF ANYONE...HE MUST...(LUKE 9:23 & LUKE
14:25)AND THEY CHOSE NOT TO. I am a solid hair-on-fire disciple of Jesus. I study out my Bible. I know what it says.
Nowadays, people LOVE confortability, don't you? But Jesus didn't come to the world to give us confortability. He came to
die on the cross for us and save us and to tell us to do his will.I am sure Jesus didn't have a confortable life. I know what
people think about the ICOC, I am part of it. I've been told I've been brainwashed, that this is a cult, and so many other
fictional stories from people who haven't even come to this church. They basically get those lies, ideas or stories from other
people. If you really want to know what the ICOC is about READ YOUR BIBLE!!! What the Apostles did in the first
century Church, we are trying to do it too! We are not a cult, we are not religious, we are not protestants, We are
RESTORING FIRST-CENTURY CHRISTIANITY. READ AND STUDY the book of ACTS. Are you like a 1st-century
church Disciple? (Are you out there preaching the word of God?, are you baptizing like they did, and so on... why or why
not? Isn't that Christianity Jesus Taught his disciples? Why aren't you like that? that's Christianity. THAT"S WHAT WE DO.
Now, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW WHO IS RIGHT? CHECK THIS OUT: * ARE YOU ACTIVELY SHARING YOUR
FAITH? (PHILEMON v.6) * ARE YOU MAKING DISCIPLES AND TEACHING THEM TO OBEY GOD'S WORD?
MATTHEW 28:18-20 * HAVE YOU REPENTED OF YOUR SINS AND BEEN BAPTIZED FOR THE FORGIVENESS
OF THEM. OH! BY THE WAY, BAPTISM DOES WASH YOUR SINS AWAY!!! STUDY IT OUT. I DID. ACTS 22:16,
ACTS 2:38 * IF YOU HAVEN'T GOTTEN BAPTIZED FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF YOUR SINS, YOU ARE NOT
SAVED. 1 PETER 3:21 (DO NOT BE CLOSE-MINDED) WHY? READ ISAIAH 59:1-2 SEE?!!! -->> PEOPLE, PLEASE
WAKE-UP!. YOU PERSONALLY STUDY THIS OUT! -------------- Sin separates you from God. Remember, how do you
get your sins forgiven? when you participate BY FAITH in the DEATH, BURIAL, ANDRESURRECTION of Jesus Christ I
N B A P T I S M. (Colossians 2:12) --------------------- BY FAITH IN BAPTISM = FORGIVENESS OF SINS,
------------------- YOU GET THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT,--------------- YOU'RE NO LONGER SEPARATED
FROM GOD!!! = SAVED!!! Read: ISAIAH 59:1-2, 1 Peter 3:21, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Colossian 2:12... I DON'T HAVE
MUCH TIME, I HAVE TO GO, ANY COMMENTS ON THIS, QUESTIONS, NEED HELP, PLEASE E-MAIL ME.
*important* I LOVE YOU ALL!!! PLEASE WAKE UP!!! I AM SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE, nelpe@hotmail.com
(Comprendo Perfectamente el Espanol)
With so much excited, and apparently angry, spouting of the ICC party line, there isn't too much commentary I can add here! Except for one thing - he says that people who want to know what the ICC is about ought to read the Bible. I don't think they'll find out about your double dating rules, one over one discipling, and similar things from the Bible.
Name: corey gray
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In
From:
Time: 1998-04-07 22:00:35
Comments: What's up guys. I am a disciple in the tallahassee international church of christ. I do not have a lot of time because I am cranking in my world sector. I just wanted to remind all of the disciples that we have a purpose and that is saving souls. "Let the dead bury their own dead." and let the whiners and quitters pour all of their time and rage into these silly arguments trying to provoke and distact those of us who are in fighting for the truth. Lets remember Matt. 28:18 GO!! and make disciples. So for all the disciples don't waiste any more time on this silly garbage. We save souls in person, we deal with lives and hearts, once again there will always be those who decide to quit and for their own wicked hearts want to back lash at those who continue to persevere. Lets spend our time doing something more productive. Amen.!!!!
Name: Christopher Valle
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From: Boston
Time: 1997-11-20 18:53:00
Comments: Ok,you are a bitter man Dan. I'm a disciple from Umass/Boston and just sent you an email. then, I clicked back on to cjeck out what other bitterness you might need to convey. I read the jabber between you and "Someone" (the back and forth, red and yellow text). You're showing everybody how your character's getting nasty. I'm just pointing out how much you hate God. Pretty strong words from someone who just, tonight read your stuff and otherwise doesn't know you. I've met people like you before, but you definately have given yourself up. Yeah, you may love yourself, and may be working on your character, but, if you don't mind my saying (a little on-line discipling for the viewers), your heart, that love's you soooo much,...is hard as a rock. Makes it harder to love yourself when you've denied God his rightful place as your Dad. You don't help people by doing this. Information is one thing, but your character is leaking out in rancid decay. I can't stand to see it happen. I'll help you work on that one if you want. give me a buzz, email style, Love, Valle
Name: Walt
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From: Philadelphia
Time: 1997-11-10 15:38:00
Comments: The question is not a matter whether ICC is the only true church or not. The matter is who is exactly following the Bible and trying to live according to it. As of now, the ICC is the only church I know that practices the Bible. If there are other churches that practice the Bible exactly, let me know. If everybody believes and tries to live by the Bible, then why is there separation? It occurs among ethnic groups. We should just worship God together. Also, before the ICC, most of the churches I went to evaded issues like homosexuality, pornography, and premartial sex. There are some churches that are hiring homosexual priests. According to the book of Romans, that is wrong. If anyone acts abusive or bossy, it isn't the church rthat made them that way. Instead, it is a character problem that needs to be worked on. The leaders are human, and they will mess up once in a while. If the ICC isn't the right church, tell me which one is correct. Is it Bapist, Methodist, Catholic? Which church is the right one according the Bible? The Bible says there is only one church. Geography is the only good reason to meet separately. Present-day Christians should only follow the teachings and ways of the 1st-century disciples, not any additional teachings that came up in the Middle Ages, yet not found in the Bible.
Name: Maria
Website: Rejoice
[Note: Neither her email address nor the URL she gave for her site work]
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From: orange county, anaheim
Time: 1997-10-29 11:11:00
Comments: Big time persecution, you all who are persecuting the church are Evil. You say we are controversial but look at your own lives. the bible is the truth and the church reveals that.
Name: Anonymous
Website:
Referred by: Word of Mouth
From:
Time: 1997-10-07 15:17:00
Comments: As a committed disciple of Jesus, I follow God and his commands wholeheartedly. Daniel, your comments are to be taken into consideration, however, for those of you who really look at this--you need to realize that Daniel DeSailles is a man who smokes and sleeps around with his girlfriends--he does not hesitate to disclose this to people. I wanted to make everyone aware of these facts. Those of you who choose to listen to what is on this page--I just wanted you to be aware of the kind of person you are dealing with. The page itself is very good, easy to get around, though that picture has got to go! It demonstrates a subtle kind of hypocrisy from the message you're trying to get out to people.
And the ICC calls it "slander" when former members tell true accounts of their experiences...
Name: an upset disciple
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From:
Time: 1997-09-30 16:25:00
Comments: I just wanted to say that your humor, with the picture, is stupid. I'm not sure what you were trying to say or do but it shows that you are an immature person. I pitty you.
The picture in question was a digitally retouched photograph of several ICC members in basketball uniforms. All of them had their faces replaced with Kip McKean's.
Name: Annette Martin
Website:
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From:
Time: 1997-09-17 16:52:00
Comments: I think what you and others are doing to the International Church of Christ is totally sinful and evil. God will be the Judge in the End. Until I will pray for your hearts to change. Read your whole Web again. Nothing but accusations, pain, lies, and sin.
Daniel de Sailles now displays the final sentance prominently on his homepage. It seems to be a pretty good description of many former members' experiences with the ICC...
Note: The following message had to be heavily censored, since this site is PG rated...
Name: Penis-Head Mcgee
Website: [Title censored]
[neither URL nor email work]
Referred by: Word of Mouth
From: The Land of common chronic
Time: 1997-07-29 14:33:00
Comments: Okay look. Now a******s in the Church have been ruining my walks down to get beer from the 7-Kings liquer store for quite some time now. And to tell the truth I'm just not going to take this s*** anymore. I'm chillin with my homie, Dan. All we f****** want is some beer. Were probably allready drunk and stoned anyhow and here come some sort of penis heads in a big group taking up my friends and my time. They talk with their shallow-a** fake voices and try to act like the only thing they care about is the dirt in their a**. Now look, Dan. I say you just pull out the gun you carry in your sock next time one of these bastards talks to you and point it right at his christian f****** nose. I'll pull out my BUTTERfly knife and throw it into his back if he tries to run. And as the sweat drips down his brainless forehead you cock that hammer and say this, "May god forgive you for your haneous crimes you scum..." And quickly grab a bit of his hair and shoot it off. "Now get outa here ya piece of s***! Before we really get p*****." And turn to me and say "Damn I hate those f****** Koresh-heads." And we will continue on our way to get our f****** beer. And if they even talk shit to the cops we'll take the whole f****** g****** ICC to court and win because of all the g****** witnesses we could bring in of peoples lives they have f***** up. This is T.W. Steroids suggestion. And when the court and media have f***** them in the a** RAW, we'll stalk each individual member of the ICC and terrorrize them leaving no proof. And on the year 2000 anniversary of the ICC's downfall we will slit the throats of all who were members before the court date who did not repent from the evils of this ICCULT. So I would encourage everyone who is a member of the ICC to move themselves toward excommunication. Me and Dan are going to kill you twenty years from the court hearing. You won't even see us coming. Be afraid. Be very afraid, bastards. And don't ever f*** with anyone walking to the liquor store on Lassen in front of your building again, which will blow up as soon as I stop spending my money on beer and drugs and fine Cigars long enough to buy some C-4. F******.
Does this guy actually expect people to think he's one of Daniel's friends? This message has "fabrication" written all over it. If the ICC thinks telling true stories about them is "slander", then what is this?
Name: I THINK YOU'RE A JERK WITH NO LIFE
Website: THE LOSER THAT HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BASH ON ICC
Referred by: Just Surfed On In!
From:
Time: 1997-07-22 23:15:00
Comments: YOU'RE FULL OF IT. GROW UP. LIKE YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS PROBLEMS IN LIFE. THE REASON BECAUSE YOU DON'T DO WELL IN SCHOOL IS BECAUSE YOU SLACK OFF. YOU'RE THE ONLY HYPOCRITE I KNOW, REMEMBER ME? YOU WERE TRYING TO TALK TO ME SO I WOULDN'T FALL AWAY? NOW WHO IS THE LIAR? WHO REALLY DIDN'T CARE? WHO WAS DECIEVING? YOU USED TO INSULT PEOPLE WITH YOUR RUDE COMMENTS. I WISH I WOULD HAVE NEVER MET YOU. I ONLY MET SOMEONE HIDING BEHIND A MASK, HOPING TO HIDE THEMSELVES.
At least Daniel de Sailles used his real name. And you say he's the one hiding behind a mask while leaving an anonmyous message in his guestbook.
