OrchidSafari ARCHIVES*

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1. PRE-DISCUSSION MAILOUT

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Moderator: Yassir Islam, Argus Orchids
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TOPIC: An Evening with Yassir Islam and his Sensational Slippers
Wed, 24 Jun 98

YassirI
Hi - not being shy....Finally able to log on. [[Yassir has graciously offered photos used in this program to be archived at Yassir Islam's Growing Area. His homepage is at Argus Orchids.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
If you right click on the button it will allow you to open it in another window.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Lois - Hit [Control] N, opens another window. Or should.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Yassir, just saw your Paph. Landmark photo - great! I just bought one a few weeks ago - what a lovely paph!

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Yeh, Paula, my Landscape put on 4 blooms with 11 inch long petals. Proud possessor, me!

YassirI
Paula, Paph. Landmark is one of the easiest sanderianum hybrids to grow and bloom, and is reasonably priced too. We'll talk about sanderianum hybrids a little later in the program. I'd like to hear how people choose what types of paphs/phrags to grow, other than having the right conditions!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Great photos. My Landmark is in bud for the first time.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Yassir, I usually choose paphs with long petals, or curly ones, or spots. These appeal to me most. or solid white, or multiflorals... heck, I love 'em all!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I favor whites, pinks and long petalled phrags.

gaillevy ( Boca Raton, Fl)
I like red!

YassirI
Like Paula, I love 'em all. However with limited space and of course $$, it is helpful to consider the parentage of what you're growing. My philosophy is that if you're going to give a plant space, it might as well be one with good potential.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Yassir, which paph is your absolute favorite, if you had to choose one?

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
1. Price does enter picture
2. After punishing oneself with weeks of denial, price is forgotten, particularly if plant is something I don't have, but want.
3. Compots or seedlings enter picture, with aspirations of raising babies to full flower.
4. If I see one, it just might get purchased on spot.
**Orchids are a way of life, just don't tell my wife!

YassirI
Paula, that's a tough question... Like Ellen I like long petals and pink-whites. Also many good complex reds out there to choose from. I would say the sanderianum hybrids but I'll have to think more on that... One of the loveliest pink hybrids is Olivia - my favourite... As Doug notes, compots are a good way to go in order to get a bunch of seedlings cheap. You can then bloom 'em out and get the best one. This is good practice with many of the intersectional brachy/parvi hybrids [crosses of plants from these two groups with OTHER sections, such as barbata for example...YI] as there is higher probability of deformity. Also for a cross like Kevin Porter (bellatulum x micranthum). You have to bloom a number to get one or two good ones.

[COMMENT: The one cross mentioned, Paph. Kevin Porter, has shown a few more problems than others with occasional slight color break or a cuppy petal on first bloom seedlings, but this is still at a fairly low rate. We have also seen some of them that exhibit this sort of problem as a first bloomer "clean up" on a second blooming. This type of cross can produce absolutely magnificent flowers, with even most of the "lesser" blooms still something worth owning...Bob Wellenstein]

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
I must say my favorite one is P. micranthum. Killed a com-pot 2 years ago, now I have a pot with 3 in it, is doing well.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Does anyone have Paph. Screaming Eagle?

YassirI
Hi Ellen: I have a large blooming size (BS) Screaming Eagle which I was hoping would bloom this year ... Also seedlings. As for Phrag. besseae, I haven't tried it yet.

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Ellen, I have a Screaming Eagle. Big plant, no bloom yet.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Me too, Doug. I hope it blooms in my lifetime.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Yassir, have you successfully bloomed Phrag. besseae?

YassirI
Barbara, I've had a hard time with micranthum in the summer heat. However, there is a great little hybrid called Paph. Wossner's Perle. If you can't grow micranthum, this is easier to grow and bloom - it'll bloom on a single growth.

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Barb, YOU don't kill orchids, some just quit growing. :(

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Doug, I'm not going to waste my $$ on seedling or com-pot again, just be more selective and buy the NBS one.

JCY8S
How do you bloom armeniacum and micranthum? I have each and can barely grow them!!

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
John, with the Wundergrow, you'll see the difference.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Paph. Franz Glanz

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Please tell me more about this one. Isn't a straight Franz Glanz, is it?

YassirI
OK. I'll talk about F Glanz for a moment. The Franz Glanz pictured was made with a YELLOW besseae (x richterii) These crosses tend to be expensive as was this one. I saw a photo of another that bloomed and it was yellow throughout. This one as you can see has a greenish yellow base, and I'm surprised there's so much red.

paulav (Paula in Boca Raton, Florida)
Yassir, I used to live in Md. and know the summers in D.C. are brutal - how do you control your growing temps?

YassirI
Paula - I'm easing into the besseae-type phrags slowly. I've succeeded with Hanne Popow and hope to bloom St Ouen's bay (which should look a lot like besseae).

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Thanks, Yassir, will look for that one. I don't keep my micranthum in the GH. Just on my kitchen window sill, when it's too hot, I just turn on the AC. It's been doing well.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Why are the chinese paphs species so difficult to bloom?

YassirI
Getting back to the chinese paphs, many of these like particularly cool winters and air circulation, is important at all times. They can also go a little drier in winter. I also think they prefer intermediate temperatures.

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
My besseae flavum has gone to the big patch in sky with the tremendous heat we've had here.

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Doug, try to build a 'Orchid Graveyard' you'll see how many you killed.

YassirI
I think the Franz Glanz is still attractive, but don't pay a lot as I did for a BS plant if what you really want is yellow - as you can see you may not get it. I'm not sure what the inheritance pattern is here, but there could be some 'fuzzy blending' i.e., a gradation of colour from green to yellow. The lucky ones will bloom out yellow phrags.

lisav-bigred
I love paph and phrags, but only own four of the former, none of the latter. Hope to change that soon.

runnerrick (From Sunny SanDiego,CA)
My Chinese paphs grow well in about 1200ft candles light, temp range of 55 - 85 and humidity of 72 - 98%. They get fogged at night and early morning and watered twice a week with RO water and fertilized once per week about 1/4 strength. With all that they are still kept to the dryish side and grow quite well.

clancy
I have paphs but I can't get them to bloom. Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong I have them inside of the house and some outside.

YassirI
Another way to avoid disappointment with the parvi species, is to grow the hybrids first. For example, Paph Golddollar is a nice big yellow armeniacum hybrid. Will bloom on a growth and a start, sometimes with 2 flowers.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Is the environment of besseae flavum different from the red or orange besseae?

YassirI
Clancy: sometimes a cool temp drop in the fall will help. if they are multiflorals or brachy/parvis, a brighter cooler drier winter may help too.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
I've brought a compot of Paph. Armeni White up - have traded and given away a bunch and only half a dozen left - but first one just bloomed and had two flowers at one time...not perfect by any means, but nice.

YassirI Hi Marylois - Armeni White is another good hybrid to grow. I have a hard time with delenatii - don't know why. Another primary delenatii hybrid to grow is Joyce Hasegawa (x emersonii) . Just bloomed one a 15cm growth with a great big flower - pouch is pale pink and the flower is scented too. A wonderful hybrid.

Ellen, I don't know much about the habitat for yellow besseae or if it differs. The plants do tend to be less robust, and the flowers smaller than the red besseae.

[See AQ Vol 28, No. 1 (the one with the nice micranthum on the cover!). The clone described there was awarded with an 8.4 cm natural spread and 2.5 cm wide petals. It has bloomed larger, and at this size is not inferior in size to too many red besseaes...Bob Wellenstein]

SD90MAC (Bob-Ms.)
My phrags always grew VERY well in the RAND pot with the air cone in the bottom. They were allowed to stand in water for two days and dry for a week.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
I believe NONE of the besseae like wet feet - keep watered, but not sitting in water.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Paph. Joyce Hasegawa

YassirI
Oh there is a photo of Joyce Hasegawa.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Beautiful, Sparky.

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Sparkster, you're hurting me!

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Hot-ding-dawgies- my Joyce Hasegawa is in bud! Nice flower, YassirI.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Doug, Joyce is the first chinese hybrid I am going to bloom. I also have it in spike. I find the phrags are much easier to grow and bloom.

lisav-bigred
Clancy, I know how you feel-like I told Steve, paphs are possibly my favorites, but I only have four; I was so close to re-blooming one about a month ago, and was holding my breath as the bud got fatter and sturdier, but -- DAGNABBIT-I got bud blast!! (sigh)

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Lisa, I can relate to that problem...

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Are the 4N plants more robust. I find that they are actually slower in developing.

SD90MAC (Bob-Ms.)
Anyone doing any breeding with besseae? I'll be glad to flask if I can share seedlings.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
They are ALL nice! I've a few - want more!

Equitantman (Matt from sunny Ventura, CA)
Yassir, what does Paph. micranthum contribute towards a breeding line?

YassirI
Matt: A couple of things - it can pass on its great big pouch (novelties) as well as that wonderful pink colour. Crossed with bellatulum the results have been fantastic - lovely unusual deep-red raspberry blooms. The hybrid with roth (Gloria Naugle) is lovely too, a lot like Delrosi but with a different shape and with intense pink markings and veining in the dorsal. Plants are compact too. I think Joyce is a good example of why we make hybrids. Delenatii gives it good form, a pink pouch, and frangrance, while emersonii contributes its size and 'mickey-mouse' petals.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I find I gain a leaf and lose the bottom one at the same time. What am I doing wrong?

YassirI
Ellen, as long as you are losing the lowest leaf only and are maintainig a healthy amount of foliage I wouldn't worry too much.

[Aaron Hicks had some advice about sour medium and losing lower leaves in an article in "Orchids", March 98 issue...KB]

Equitantman (Matt from sunny Ventura, CA)
Do any of you have Paph. Dragon Bronze? fairrieanum x Hellas 'Westonbirt'?

YassirI
Matt: I don't have the hybrid you mentioned. Fairrieanum has made some lovely hybrids when crossed to complexes though.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
The concolor is beautiful. Do you have a size of that flower?

YassirI
John: glad you liked the concolor. The flower and the pot are about 2.5 inches. There is a trend towards large rounder concolor flowers in breeding. However, there are many varietal forms which deserve wider appreciation. What I like is how compact this plant it! It is now opening a second bud as well...

lisav-bigred
Y'know, gang, I may just have to sign off-I start to drool when I see too many pictures of paphs, and have particular difficulty hearing about 'deep red raspberry blooms' - my checkbook is calling me, but no growers are open at this hour!!

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
Lisa - that's called self-discipline - look at flower pictures while stores are closed.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Yassir, do you use a blossom booster?

YassirI
Ellen, I use 3-12-6. I tend to use it more heavily in the fall, but I do work it into the fertilzing schedule year 'round.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Can you be more specific concerning fertilizing schedule?

YassirI
Perhaps we can talk a little about the intersectional parvi hybrids. For example, picture This is an unusual lemon yellow flower. I've had three on a plant about 10" across and it has another bud about to open. It is a cross of armeniacum x haynaldianum album. The use of the album parent is why we have a concolor cream-yellow flower without darker markings.

Equitantman (Matt from sunny Ventura, CA)
Are all Paphs considered low light plants?

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Not at all, Matt. delenatii, micranthum all take bright light.

runnerrick (From Sunny SanDiego,CA)
Not really, Matt. Most roth. hybrids can take Catt. light.

YassirI
As a general rule, most mottled leaf paphs like low light, chamberlainum and that group of sequential blomers don't need lots of light either. Parvis and brachy can take quite bright light. Almost all the mulitlforals with the exception of parishii like it bright.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yassir - I have a pod forming on my F. C. Puddle FCC/RHS crossed with druryi. Do you think that it has any promise? It hasn't been registered as of the last Sanders' List.

YassirI
Hi John: Might be fun. You could get a creamy yellow flower with those wonderful druryi stripes down the centre of the petal and dorsal.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
That sounds like a fun cross, so maybe I will have more than one transplant flask made.

RCW-upstateNY
Yassir, you don't think Puddle will suppress the yellow?

YassirI
I think Puddle should supress the yellow but may not do so completely, especially given that it is a complex hybrids can complicate things too..most will probably be white though, did I say yellow?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
If white I would like that better. That is the reason I made the cross!! Maybe 3 transplant flasks (hmmmm)

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
How much more will the pod parent influence the hybrid?

YassirI
John: I think they should be predominantly white. Ellen, Pod parent influence is controversial and years ago would have been questioned. From some of my orchid growing friends, there could be some influence in plant size, colour, and form from the maternal parent. There is mitochondrial DNA which is inherited form the pod parent which may explain this. I often buy hybrids made with the compact growing parent as pod parent. I've also been told that crosses with micranthum can be more intense if micranthum is the pod parent. So if you see Magic Lantern (x delenatii) made with micranthum as the pod parent, get it!

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
I just bought a Magic Lantern, hope will bloom next year(?).

digorchids (Doug from Houston, TX area)
How big does Phrag. Sorcerer's Apprentice get before flowering?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Big, Doug

YassirI
OK. Here's Karyol Vaughn's Gold

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Yes - that's the other one I like besides Franz Glanz!

YassirI
Well, another parvi intersectional that I bloomed and like is Paph. malipoense x wilhelminae. Sort of like a mini Harold Koopowitz.

kahless66 (Kevin from Southfield, Michigan)
I have a Paph Voodoo Magic. It's a mottled-leaf orchid. When do you think this will bloom?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kevin - Voodoo Magic is beautiful. I have one and it is fairly easy to bloom - once it reaches the correct size!!

kahless66 (Kevin from Southfield, Michigan)
John, At what time of the year does yours bloom?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Sorry I can't remember when it blooms, but probably somewhat early. This year was no indication as our weather has been so dreary.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yassir, where do you find these cuties!? Or are they your own crosses? That Karyol Vaughn's Gold is great.

YassirI
Kathy: I dig around on catalogs and talk to other growers - none of these are my crosses, though I have some pods going.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Do paphs benefit from summering outdoors?

[ADDED: There was some question as to whether Paphs benefit from summering out. I would like to discourage people from doing this as much as possible. You just expose the plants to too many hazards. In addition to the possibility of wind, or hail, or animal damage, there is the risk of extended cooler rainy weather which could lead to various rots if the plants aren't protected. You also have the problem of all sorts of insect exposure, both to the plant and the potting mix, and the risk of carrying all sorts of undesirables into your house or greenhouse in the fall. And, Bean Yellow Mosaic Virus is quite a common infection in garden crops, and could be spread to your plants via aphids. I would suggest that you will have more rewards if you put your energies into optimizing your culture under cover...Bob Wellenstein]

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
What influence is the 4N and the colchicine treated plants?

YassirI
The idea with colchicine is to get tetraploid plants-larger robust flower and plants, but growth is likely to be slower. Also with colchicine treatment you often get really high conversion or none at all, so there is quite an element of chance.

uncleearl (Earl from Vacaville, CA)
Ellen - Tetraploids, bred to diploids, produce (usually) triploids, which are often more robust than either diploid or tetra- plants. Most commercial Cym's are triploid, for instance.

Excellent discussion, Yassir, even though I'm not really a Paph person (yet!). To answer a question posed very early on, I liked the Sierra Lace, AH9, and Flamecrest best, though others were nice.

YassirI
Thanks Earl..good night..All this paph chat has me too excited to contemplate going to bed.

Equitantman (Matt from sunny Ventura, CA)
Yassir, I see that you are growing in clear pots, can you tell us about your experience with them?

YassirI
Matt, the plants seem to like the aircone pots because of the ventilation provided through the cone. I actually grow most of my paphs in McConkey square pots. Paphs seem to love these - maybe they drain better, who knows? Also growing and blooming many plants in 2-2.5" deep 'rose' pots, for example, Paph. Sierra Lace. I think paphs do very well in these deeper pots, and you can fit more of them on [the bench] as a result!

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
I have half a compot of Greyi var album x Sierra Lace Paphanatics babies! This gives me an idea of what to expect!

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
What medium do you use, Yassir? Do you still grow under lights in your spare bedroom?

YassirI
Kathy: I have four different mixes - seedlings, mature plants, brachys, and strap-leaf/large pots.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Yassir - what is different about your brachy mix and pots?

YassirI
My brachy mix has more medium fir bark than the other mixes and sometimes more perlite too. The idea is for a more open free draining mix.

MarilyninOttawa
Hi all! Sorry to be so late. I like clear pots because you can see what the roots are doing.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA):
Lois those sound great! Yes, Marilyn but here all we get is algae inside the pots!!

YassirI
I think Sierra Lace, S. Gratrix (bellatulum x godefroyae), and other simlar hybrids are wonderful things - again, easier to grow/bloom than the species and often larger, too.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Marilyn, I like the clear pots too, can't say for sure why... I like to see where the water goes in them. Yassir the deeper pots are a good Idea too, I'll look for the McConkey ( Natalie, a local supplier, has them)

MarilyninOttawa
You can place an opaque sleeve over the pot and remove it occasionally to check root growth. What do you think, Yassir?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Never thought of that Marilyn. How about setting it in another pot?

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
One that I've had trouble getting any growing info on is P. gratixianum. Does anyone have any recommendations?

YassirI
Rick, the plant may need several growths before it will bloom - try a cool fall spell too.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Still under lights, or have you got something strung out on the rooftops in - what - Wash DC no?

YassirI
To be honest, I don't mind the algae too much and the plants don't seem to either. I clean it out when repotting, but there's never that much in the pots as to be unsightly.

MarilyninOttawa
Maybe John. I have a feeling that the algae may not always be such a bad thing. Actually not much will form unless nutrient levels are high.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Could the algae actually help the roots by providing something the plant needs?

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
The only thing I ever heard about algae is that it keeps the fertilizer away from the orchids!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Yassir, do you move any of your paphs outside for the summer?

[NOTE: See Bob Wellenstein's comment above re disadvantages of putting paphs outside for the summer...mlg]

YassirI
Hi Ellen: I have no where ot move my paphs outside - as Kathy noted I am a condo dweller! All are under lights and stay there! Heat build-up is a big problem here in DC and so I have to keep the AC running during the day when I'm out too.

BugFud (Akron, Ohio)
Is it hard to rot the roots off of Paphs?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
It is fairly easy to rot roots IF you don't watch your watering.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
BudFud, yes quite easy to rot them, overwatering always does it for me! But then I'm a poor mother and go in spurts of watering/no watering, so my plants are schizophrenic!

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Gee Kathy, That would make me feel right at home LOL.

BugFud (Akron, Ohio)
I only have one that is giving me problems, a phillippinense cross. The others are all doing great!

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
Thanks YassirI. Last year my P. gratixianum put up a spike only to have it wither and die. Very strange as most of my Paph. do bloom! I've never been able to figure out why, unless it was heat.

YassirI
Rick, sometimes if the plants get too hot, or dry out they'll blast. Also, some paphs will blast the bud on a smaller plant and need to get up to size to bloom well - I've heard tigrinum is like this as may be some of the clumping species.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Does the air conditioner remove the humidity? I would like to move some into the house but I thought the air conditioner would be bad.

YassirI
Hi Ellen: When its really hot, its hard to keep humidity high, so when it's cooler, humidity rises, humidity being relative to air temperature. I also run a humidifier all day. I 've had two first blooms blast this month -a hookerae and a Master Henry - I suspect its heat.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Could humidity trays work. I rotted my cathredal ceilings out. That's how I got the greenhouse.

YassirI
Thanks Marilyn: I've enjoyed reading your postings on OLD. I see that it's 10pm. I'm happy to shut up and go away if people want a general chat, or we can continue for a bit longer...

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Do continue, Yassir!

YassirI
Ellen, I like to repot about every 8-12 months. Sometimes it slips to 12.

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
Thanks, YassirI. I'll try putting P. gratixianum down where it is cooler. BTW, I've got a tigrinum hybrid in bloom - just opened last weekend. I've not had a chance to photograph it yet.

YassirI
Rick, what is the other parent of your tigrinum hybrid?

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
YassirI, I'll have to tell you next week as I'm not home and can't recall. I get home late tomorrow and will tell you Sat. or next time we chat.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
How often should they be repotted?
If you find you are losing roots, is it because the media is too wet?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Usually Ellen that is the cause.

YassirI
Yes, I would agree with John, especially if the mix is decomposed.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Can they be repotted at any time?

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Terry Root of the Orchid Zone says he repots anytime a plant needs it.

YassirI
Ellen, it could be root rot. You need good roots to get good plants and blooms - frequent repotting can mitigate the effect of over-watering. If you are an overwaterer, use a more porous mix (i.e., more perlite (#3, #4) and more medium fir bark rather than fine. Also, make sure not too overpot.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Ellen, I've repotted at anytime, seems to benefit the plants actually, but then they probably are happy to get out of the soaking wet medium by that time.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
I think that decomposed mix has killed more orchids than almost anything else.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Yassir-I have a couple and fine tree fern works fine for me.

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
YassirI, what do you use (and vary) between your various mixes?

YassirI
Hi sparkysteve. There are lots of variations and mixes out there. I prefer not to use tree fern. Find a mix that works for your growing conditions and stick with it for a while.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Yassir, do you know anything about the wonderlite advertized in the 'Orchids'?

clancy44
I have a few paphs in sphagnum moss are they ok to grow like this?

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Clancy, watch you watering frequency, I'll rot everything in moss cause I'm a heavy waterer (at times). If you're worried about the roots don't be afraid to pull the plant out of the pot. Also I think the moss wants to be changed every 6 mos. depending on the water hardness in your area.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Any bark scares me---it rots too fast down here!

YassirI
Hi Sparky, I've heard that from Florida growers. Ellen, I looked into the wonderlite a while back. I concluded, though I couldn't tell you why right now, that it is an inferior light source based on older technology, compared to the agro-sun and halides you have now. This is not to say that it won't enhance growth, but there are probably better alternatives out there.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Amen, Steve - I use a bit of small bark in my charcoal/perlite mix in pots 3" or under - otherwise, no bark.

YassirI
Rick: all mixes have med fir bark, fine fir bark, perlite, and chunky peat moss to varying degrees. If anyone is interested in recipes, email me some time and I'll send 'em to you. Also, I add crushed oystershell after potting to those paphs which grow over a limestone substrate.

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Yassir - please list the lime-loving paphs/phrags.

YassirI
A list of all the lime-loving paphs? I was afraid of that. Can't think of 'em all but fairrieanum, barbigerum, glanduliferum, roth, sanderianum, brachys all come to mind.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yassir, Do you have a Phrag Don Wimber? I'm thinking of getting one and was wondering if they are slow growers, I'll probably only be able to afford a seedling.

YassirI
Kathy: I don't have Don Wimber but it is a wonderful hybrid. I have one picture on my site but not on the chat photo list. There are some hybrids out there made with tetraploid parents from the Eric Young foundation that should be wonderful. Shop around and you should be able to get a reasonably priced seedling.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Kathy - I got a Don Wimber in Jan and was given the wrong price I found out later. I got it for only $30. It is a 4n cross.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
John, you got a bargain.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yes Ellen, The guy who sold it I think was told off royally by the owner!!! However the price had been quoted so they couldn't do anything - to my benefit!

bmtorchids (Barbara, No. Calif.)
Kathy, I liked calcium so well I gave it to most of my plants, I think that's what brought out the bloom in my L.sincorana.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Yassir, I knocked out my dining wall and have floor to ceiling glass. Unfortunately, even though it is an east facing window, it needs supplemental lighting in the winter. I don't know what to use. I really don't want to put lights over every shelf.

YassirI
Hi Ellen: coming up with an attractive alternative is hard. Mybe a 250 watt high intensity? they're not bad-looking.

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
Kathy, I hope that you use RO water - although this year shouldn't be too bad for sodium in the water with all the rain that we have had.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Yassir - I used to put lime on my bellatulum for years and was able to keep it alive for many years. I used dolomite lime.

YassirI
Speaking of phrags, another hybrid with some promise I think is St Ouen, which is Hanne Popow x besseae. These have been blooming mostly coral pink, buy there have been a number of unusual deep reds. If you want to try besseae, this may be a good one to try first.

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
YassirI, don't most of them like the calcium? - and thereby could profit from the crushed oyster shells in the medium?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have St Quen and it's deep red.

YassirI
Hi Ellen: I think that's unusual...is it a deeper 'blue' red, i.e., different from the orange-red of besseae?

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif) Ellen I have a 270 Watt SuperAgro bulb from Hydrofarm, puts out red and blue light, would be good as a supplement, but not as a total source, I think my plants are etiolated (leggy) when under that light only. YassirI
Yes, I lime brachys quite heavily. Dolomite is great in that it also has Mg-however, if too finely powdered, it runs straight through the mix. Oyster-shell seems to do the trick also.

Ellen mentioned long petals earlier...here's two: Paph. Angel Hair (easy to grow and bloom) and Phrag wallisiii (photo taken a few hours ago).

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Very nice!

YassirI
Hi Marylois: you should get an Paph. Angel Hair. I have a compot of them so I'll let you know when they're ready, OK? Really good parents too.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have a Phrag. Grande with 28 inch petals.

YassirI
Sounds lovely, Ellen, have you taken it in for judging?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Not yet. It's a first time bloomer for me. I want to see what it does next time.

JCY8S (John in Arcadia, CA)
Ellen that sounds great. I have 2 small seedlings of Grande. My Nitidissimum had 13" petals this year - first time I flowered it.

YassirI
I like wallisii because you get the long petals on a much smaller plant. I have a number of hybrids which should result in Ruby Slippers and Grande look-a-likes so I'm excited about those.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I bought a back growth of a Phrag Grande 'Yosemite Sam'. It seems to be a smaller plant with the same large flowers.

emf31 (Its so hot, humid and smokey in Savannah)
How long do the petals on phrag Grande usually get? Is 28 in. exceptional? Sounds like it to me! How neat.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I was told that they will grow as long as they don't touch anything. The theory being that ants helped fertilization so petals grew until they reached the ground.

YassirI
28" for a Grande is pretty good I think....good culture helps, so Ellen must be doing something right!

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Yassir, any hints on Phrag pearcei? I got mine bareroot in March, it seems to be perking up, I have it in moss, thinking that would help it root.

YassirI
Kathy: Mine bloomed earlier this year in a bark mix. I don't do anything special, but keep it quite wet. Apparently this species grows along riverbanks and can have its roots flooded quite often...is yours going to bloom?

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
No, mine's just sending up some new growths, had only a few fans, which separated form the rhizome when I took it out of its foil pack, so now I have 3 but they'll take a while to get up to blooming size now.

YassirI
I think peraceii needs 1+ growth to bloom. Mine only did so with one mature growth and 2 half growths, but it is a fast grower.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Well, I have hope then!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I'm a phrag fanatic and now have 83 plants. The problem is they are all getting bigger and need more room. I will go to divorce court if I remove any more walls. I grow most of my phrags in the house in the glass walled dining room and a greenhouse window in the kitchen. Only the huge ones go down to the greenhouse.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Ellen, how cold does your GH get in winter? I know you have to spend a million bucks for electricity there in NY.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I run it 57 at night and at least 68 during the day. If it is sunny, it gets much warmer.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Is 58 too cold for Phrags?

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I keep them closer to the heater so it is warmer than the 68.

YassirI
Well, things are slowing down it seems...so maybe we should go to open chat. Before that, one trend that I've seen is the use of Paph. wilhelminae in hybridizing. Also sib crosses of the species are now available. Wilhmelminae is wonderful as a parent breeding compact mutliflorals with roth-like flowers, for example Paph. Hideki Okuyama which we saw earlier (malipoense x glanduliferum) and Paph. Oklahoma(concolor x praestans), both of which will bloom in 3.5" pots. I have a larger number of hybrids using this species, including a cross with sanderianum which should be very compact and have very long petals. These things often go in spurts so now would be a good time to get both the species, and some of its hybrids. There are some Susan Booths out there made with wilhelminae, and this is probably the next best thing to blooming a roth. Hybrids with these should also be great.

[While some consider wilhelminae a separate species, others consider it as a variety of glanduliferum. From a horticultural point of view, it is important to make a distinction. That is, one should know when glanduliferum var. wilhelminae has been used to make a cross, rather than 'straight' glanduliferum. I have referred to it as wilhelminae in this discussion, simply for ease and convenience. I'll let the taxonomists argue over its status...YI]

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
How long does it take a roth to bloom?

YassirI
Ellen, many, many years, unless you can get a division. There are crosses of two clones out there (Chester Hills and Janet) which may be worth getting. Janet is a compact grower, and Chester Hills apparently will bloom on a single growth.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
I have Janet but I know it has years to grow. The leaves are so large that it cuts down the space for other plants.

KB Barrett (Kathy in N Calif)
Thanks for the tips, Yassir!

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Super discussion tonight.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Do you know anything about Phrag. Demetria?

YassirI
Last one. A long petalled hybrid-quite elegant. I haven't grown it but will one day... Thanks all...I dread seeing the transcripts because I'm an absolutely awful two finger typist! Must they be sent out? Its been a pleasure - I've learned lots and hope to particiapte on the OS chat again. Please feel to follow up on any threads with me, or email me if you have any questions. I can be reached at yassir@argusorchids.com. Happy growing to all! Good Night.

Ellen,Smithtown,NewYork
Thanks for all the info. This was one of the best, Marylois. Will say nite to all.

runnerrick (Rick in Sunny SanDiego,CA)
Nite, YassirI.

sparkysteve (of Boca Raton Florida)
Thanks, Yassir!!!!!

marylois (Northwest Louisiana)
Good night, Yassir - please plan to come back again...maybe more will be in bloom come fall? *S*