Session Start: Thu Nov 11 07:12:38 2004
Session Ident: #Slave_Traders_Inn
[08:17] * Da^id sets mode: +m
[08:17] * Da^id lets STI go into discussion mode
[08:18] * gia{FH} situates eagerly, settling down to 'dis' mode
[08:18] * gia{FH} amends 'dis' to 'discussion'
[08:18] * Da^id sets mode: +v champagne
[08:18] * gia{FH} has no desire to be in 'dis' mode
[08:19] * elinor{T} tries to hold back a giggle.. looking serious
[08:19] well..... last time it was about the positive aspects of what we do and have here
[08:19] * gia{FH} smiles to the entrance then turns attention to Master Da^id
[08:19] are there any remarks on that left over with a weeks time in between?
[08:20] * lina{D^d} waves waves to champagne :)
[08:20] * champagne smiles brightly and waves to the little birdie who did some whispering to her and prances in .. snuggling her knees in a corner of the furs and does some listening
[08:20] * Tustin smiles
[08:20] no Master not from elinor
[08:21] ok.....
[08:21] today its a more typical gorean topic....
[08:21] does not remember last weeks Master
[08:21] one which obviously is not really STIs problem.....
[08:21] been too much under/over/since then
[08:22] but it might help us to understand our places
[08:22] Why are there FW in online Gor? What is the place of FW in our world on- and offline?
[08:23] * Tustin listens and nods
[08:23] good question!
[08:23] Tustin, you will not just end it by saying: "There is no."
[08:23] *laughs*
[08:23] * elinor{T} giggles
[08:23] * Tustin laughs
[08:23] I see my reputation has preceeded me :)
[08:24] * Tustin grins
[08:24] * Da^id smiles
[08:24] maybe FW are like a 'holding pattern' til their owner shifts their bellies Master?
[08:24] well, there are two groups of folks we dont really see in STI:
[08:24] FW and boys
[08:24] holding pattern?
[08:24] interesting....
[08:24] waiting Master....like airplanes ready to land
[08:24] * Da^id smiles
[08:24] very few of the women who call themselves FW really are as they don't understand the concept
[08:25] I can name only a couple I have known in all my years on Gor
[08:25] so... how would you define what a FW is compared to how most so-called-FW see it?
[08:26] FW are not Domme's....in my opinion
[08:26] they think, in error perhaps, that a cap on their name is protection.. from what girl does not know?
[08:26] * Da^id nods and listens
[08:26] * gia{FH} smiles to Master Tustin, nodding in agreement
[08:26] let us for a moment consider the role of Dommes in BDSM-scene in comparing it to FW
[08:26] this is not BDSM...this is Gor!
[08:27] * Tustin nods and listens
[08:27] whats a Domme?
[08:27] a female Dom, true?
[08:27] what would she Dom? no one on Gor..
[08:28] anyway elinor does not think so..
[08:28] her slaves?
[08:28] i see we miss an "advocatus diaboli"
[08:28] well.. that is beyond elinor .. owned by a female? what would happen to her belly?
[08:28] herself before her slaves
[08:29] someone who argues in the opposite way.....
[08:29] ummmmm what is that Master Da^id.. oh
[08:29] well..
[08:29] lol elinor......she bows to belly 'on occasion'
[08:29] switch-hitters
[08:29] lina think there are some girls who are born to be dominant.. naturally
[08:29] they enjoy no thrill from submission by domination
[08:29] its like how slavery is in us
[08:29] just that domination is in them
[08:29] and it cannot be help
[08:29] * elinor{T} shudders at the thought
[08:30] there are girls like that ... lina've came across such before ...
[08:30] maybe.. do you think so Master?
[08:30] ah.... so, lina.....
[08:30] * Tustin listens...considering
[08:30] those female swould be born owners and dominant, true?
[08:30] well maybe its just a facade or a cover lina dont know ... but if slavery can be born in mails and dominance can be born in Men
[08:30] why cant slavery be born in Male and dominance be born in female ?
[08:30] * Da^id listens at lina
[08:30] knows no woman that does not want to be over-powered by a strong man.....lezzys maybe...but then they wanna be over-powered by a strong woman maybe?
[08:30] have met some individuals like that ... but also have seen one individual who girl thought was like that in a collar a few months later
[08:30] is it born or learned?
[08:31] mails=females
[08:31] * gia{FH} gathers her thoughts while settling back, listening for a bit
[08:31] think everybody is born with certain traits in them
[08:31] but it takes cultivation
[08:31] * elinor{T} grins to champagne
[08:31] perhaps they are born with Domme quality but doesnt know ... and it takes another Dom or another Domme to show them the rope
[08:31] the question is: are there natural dominant women?
[08:31] * champagne winks to elinor
[08:31] just like us kajirae
[08:31] lina think yes
[08:32] but a few
[08:32] very few
[08:32] gia does not believe so Master Da^id
[08:32] elinor qualified the answer.. thinks there may be some who think they are naturally dominant..
[08:32] i know a girl who was sure not to be submissive at all.... a while ago
[08:32] lina...are you confusing dominance...with strength?
[08:33] no, Master Tustin
[08:33] some will put on 'airs' to make folks think she is in control....yet when it comes to the nitty-gritty...she is a belly-flopper just like the rest
[08:33] * elinor{T} giggles to gia
[08:33] gias opinion of course Masters
[08:33] that presents a picture.
[08:33] lina thinks it all depends on how one looks at it ..from which angle
[08:33] * gia{FH} grins to elinor
[08:33] and from who
[08:34] so you are saying lina that dominance or submission is inborn...thus...not a learned trait?
[08:34] not a cultivated or discovered trait, Master Tustin ...
[08:34] what lina is trying to say is
[08:34] for example ..all of us detest FW on Gor ..we think there are no such thing .. which is true from what Gor is nowadays ..
[08:34] but ..
[08:35] to a lesbian .. or to a Man who is submissive .. the so-called FW can be like ..the world's most dominant human being
[08:35] it all go down to who view them
[08:35] well, true
[08:35] * `Mecurio thinks the topic is hogwash
[08:35] <`Mecurio> there are no free women on gor
[08:35] * Tustin chuckles
[08:35] <`Mecurio> all are slaves in disguise
[08:35] well, as well in the books as in online Gor we see FW
[08:36] but she does think that there might be dominance born in a girl ... perhaps, its a genes thing or something
[08:36] * Da^id nods
[08:36] this one thinks it is both .. that each individual has various levels of both dominance and submission in them, so they may lean one way or the other naturally... just upbringing/environment is what really shapes their outlooks
[08:36] so again: why are there Dommes in BDSM circles and not in Gor?
[08:36] * lina{D^d} nods nods to chammie
[08:37] cause they are not Domme enough to enter a Dom-er circle of Gor ?
[08:37] also need.. in r/l some of the best slave girls.. elinor has been told have jobs that force them to be Domme in action
[08:37] true
[08:37] <`Mecurio> because in R/L men have a need to submit
[08:37] or perhaps they feel intimidated by the Man on Gor .. or disgusted by the fake "Dommes" on Gor ?
[08:38] not Domme...dominant perhaps
[08:38] <`Mecurio> and that need is met by Dommes
[08:38] in fact - we dont have Domme-style FW cause we, the men, dint tolerate them
[08:38] * Tustin nods
[08:38] there would be otherwise
[08:38] yes, Master that is the truth
[08:39] <`Mecurio> and Gor is a philosophy
[08:39] <`Mecurio> One mans fantassy brought to life in the form of books
[08:40] let me try to explain a bit..... thoug hI am not the philosopher.....
[08:40] perhaps its not a fantasy
[08:40] * elinor{T} listens
[08:40] Norman was trying to be a writer
[08:40] <`Mecurio> it was his fantasy
[08:40] I, too, believe that there are individuals born to be dominant and others born to be submissive....
[08:40] <`Mecurio> others have expanded on it
[08:40] * gia{FH} chews on her tongue and tastes blood while trying to formulate thoughts
[08:41] and I agree that to be submissive fits to the general role of women out of her biological condition....
[08:41] ahhhhhhhhhhh yessssssssssss
[08:41] natural order?
[08:41] do we believe in that?
[08:41] again to be dominant fits to the natural biological role of men....
[08:41] but:
[08:42] it doesnt mean in our artificial cultural society that all individuals feel like that
[08:42] no woman needs to be protected against wild animls anymore
[08:43] so civilization and natural design are in a conflict
[08:43] at the end there are women who see themselves as Dommes
[08:43] or dominant at least
[08:43] but as we gather under the headline of Gor we stand for the idea to bring back behavioural patterns to the natural order
[08:44] so we dont see dominant FW as natural and as welcome
[08:44] * Da^id lerans back
[08:44] leans
[08:44] do you agree se far?
[08:44] * Da^id looks arround
[08:44] * lina{D^d} nods
[08:44] * gia{FH} rereads
[08:44] * Tustin listens
[08:45] * Da^id pretebds to listen only while he prepares his pipe rl
[08:45] lina guessed Frees cant stand girls to be FW ... the feeling is like how lina cannot really stand being in the presence of a boy
[08:45] in a sense that ..
[08:45] elinor thinks that the natural order maybe does not cease just because of civilization? had it not been such for eons?
[08:46] if she meets a boy..she think that its fun.. something like a novelty ... though she does get shudders after some time ...
[08:46] think it has to cease at a certain point in life ...
[08:46] and someone needs to relight it
[08:46] someone who click with the doused fire
[08:46] well.....
[08:47] elinor....
[08:47] there are vegetarians.....
[08:47] * elinor{T} glances to Master Da^id listening
[08:47] isnt that a sign that there is the possibility of ceasing for natural behaviour?
[08:48] it depends what the defination of natural order is.. there is the balance that one must make always.. but to a female .. there is a need to be controlled..
[08:49] anyway to this girl
[08:49] * Da^id nods
[08:49] what was Fyree?
[08:49] the control is needed..
[08:49] <`Mecurio> both slave and free
[08:49] she was definatly dominant
[08:49] and she was submissive
[08:50] <`Mecurio> but in r/l very submissive
[08:50] Mistress Fyree in elinor's opinon was excellent as FW and oh my as a slave elinor swears she could melt rocks
[08:50] really
[08:50] she coukd, believe me
[08:50] could
[08:50] for a few weeks she once was fyree{D^d}
[08:50] * elinor{T} grins.. having learned alot from Mistress Fyree over the years.. she was beyond exellent in anything she did.. elinor thinks
[08:51] oh didn't know that
[08:51] nearly noone did
[08:51] * elinor{T} perks to listen?
[08:51] * Da^id smiles
[08:51] <{ariella}DG> so is that a switch
[08:51] no
[08:51] she was no switch
[08:51] <`Mecurio> yes, online she was a switch
[08:52] in gias opinion Masters....women wish to be inspired by the brawn of strong character, will, i love the feel when a man conquers me, when i know he is over-ridden, over-powered, over-overed-all and turned me to jello, while Norman didn't pull this notion out of thin air...he did bring it to the forefront by writing it under the guise of Sci-fi novel surrounding a fantasy planet called Gor
[08:52] <`Mecurio> played the game of gor very well
[08:52] * hammea slips to her knees in the entrance, bowing her head gently to let soft har slip across her face, veiling a soft smile as she whispers sweetly
[08:52] <`Mecurio> mea?
[08:52] hammea, its discussion hour.... no formalities in that
[08:52] * hammea smiles
[08:53] <`Mecurio> why do slaves always shorten their names?
[08:53] thankYou Master Da^id, mea didnt know that
[08:53] its quicker to type
[08:53] <`Mecurio> is it laziness?
[08:53] * hammea smiles
[08:53] lets not go into that right now
[08:53] * lina{D^d} chuckles
[08:53] is Master R-Flagg been on ?
[08:54] never thought of Mistress Fyree as a switch.. or that she considered Gor a game..
[08:54] * hammea blinks, confused at hearing her sister's name
[08:54] <{ariella}DG> not specifically Her.. a person who is FW and slave at times
[08:54] Fyree was a good example of what Tustin described as strength
[08:55] she never thought gor was a game!
[08:55] <`Mecurio> to many it is just a game
[08:55] she was a strong woman who could easily take over control.... but allways she and the others knew she was slave in her heart
[08:55] yes Master that is a good example..
[08:55] <`Mecurio> one day free next day a slave
[08:56] * elinor{T} smiles with relief at that..
[08:56] Fyree didnt change like that
[08:56] she was a FW..who knew what a FW on Gor was all about
[08:56] <`Mecurio> many do though
[08:56] define that please, Tustin
[08:56] Mistress Fyree was made FW by Master Flagg.. she did not chose it as girl recalls
[08:56] it was very hard for her at first
[08:56] She was not a Domme...she was submissive...yet not slave perse...if that makes sense
[08:57] she knew her place in Gorean society
[08:58] we once considered a Free Companionship...however...she knew that for me that would not work....
[08:58] so what is a legitimate FW?
[08:58] <`Mecurio> no such thing
[08:58] * Tustin smiles
[08:58] * elinor{T} quiets and just listens.. having no answer as appropriate perhaps
[08:58] a strong woman...who understands that she remains Free at the discretion of the Men around her....
[08:59] not a Domme...but a strong woman....
[08:59] * Da^id agrees
[08:59] and 85% of all FW in online Gor are no FW
[08:59] they are hidden or hiding slaves
[09:00] <`Mecurio> you are being generous Dude
[09:00] <`Mecurio> more like 98%
[09:00] *laughs*
[09:00] maybe
[09:00] <{ariella}DG> some slaves are stronger than FW on Gor
[09:00] many are, elinor
[09:00] gia could fold most FW into stamp-size
[09:01] mentally
[09:01] * Da^id smiles at gia
[09:01] ari instead would use scissors
[09:02] <{ariella}DG> smiles at Master Da^id
[09:02] why dont FW come into STI?
[09:02] * Da^id smiles and listens
[09:02] <`Mecurio> because I am here
[09:02] * {ariella}DG smiles
[09:02] are there FW who travel around? have not seen any but then elinor does not travel..
[09:02] *laughs*
[09:03] Lorena- was here recently
[09:03] would think a FW (with respect) would be scared to
[09:03] well, we do not cherrish FW
[09:04] * Da^id smiles
[09:04] she was?
[09:04] surprising?
[09:04] you mean Lorena, Tustin?
[09:05] * Tustin nods
[09:05] she pretended to be new as "Lorena"
[09:05] ahhhhhhhhhh....
[09:05] thats the kind of gamer-FW
[09:06] I didnt see a real FW since a long time
[09:06] most FW come for discussion Master
[09:06] thouigh I sometimes chat with Dia ;-)
[09:06] no boys are allowed...no girls to 'toy' with
[09:06] true gia
[09:07] does anyone here miss FW to be in STI?
[09:07] * gia{FH} thinks
[09:07] * gia{FH} grins slyly
[09:07] may a girl be permitted to go
[09:07] yes hammea
[09:07] thankYou Master Da^id
[09:07] elinor is afraid of FW.. some have been rather mean
[09:08] FW often act up like that, elinor
[09:08] but she is not afraid when her Master is near
[09:08] Mistress VictorianLace visits....she is a friend and intelligent one....as a rule, she is overall nice
[09:08] the typical sign of hidden slaves
[09:08] care to you hammea
[09:08] she truely is, gia
[09:08] oh
[09:09] <`Mecurio> Maria is no FW
[09:09] Mistress `Maria?
[09:09] who is that?
[09:09] <`Mecurio> victorian lace
[09:09] * champagne perks up .. knowing that nick
[09:09] ah....
[09:10] I cannot judge on that, shes just a nice visitor
[09:10] <`Mecurio> maria is her r/l name
[09:10] gia likes her Master mecurio.....she is a friend
[09:10] what woman is a FW around here Master?
[09:10] how does a Master know .. what is inside of a female.. always puzzled elinor.. but Masters do
[09:10] <`Mecurio> I didnt say she wasnt nice
[09:11] with so many opinions.....we all have them....is it like some of us determining who might be 'slave' and who might be 'master'?
[09:12] well, I dont need to define their soul
[09:13] I judge on their behaviour
[09:13] ahh
[09:13] * Tustin smiles...standing up...and lifting elinor into his arms
[09:13] <{ariella}DG> sometimes their soul is submissive and their behavior not
[09:13] sorry but the balance calls!
[09:13] * Da^id nods at Tustin
[09:14] this discussion doesnt need a result - as we in general agree
[09:14] so thank you for taking part - and be invited to continue talking on it
[09:14] * Da^id sets mode: -m