Swing, Baby!
(c) Tisiphone: July 28, 1998.
Kurt: Is this your hat? [picks up my grey top hat & tries it on]
Me: That's my hat. I'm giving it back to my friend...she's my editor, so I thought I'd just take it down for when I see her tonight.
K: Goes with my pants, kind of.
M: It does go with your pants. That whole Mad Hatter vibe. [Scotty laughs] I was at a party last weekend, and it was all ravers. Rave kids go crazy for that hat. Just knocks them dead. I actually got this package five minutes before I picked up the cab. I haven't had a lot of time to skim through. It's a very intimidating package...they've asked all the questions that I was even contemplating. So basically I was just going to play it by ear. Just talk. Is that cool?
Scotty: That's definitely cool.
K: That's probably the best way.
[I stop fucking around & the interview begins]
Me: Do you feel like you have a demographic?
S: To us it doesn't feel like there is a demographic. It's easy to maybe pinpoint that with a few bands. We've been pretty much on the road; working what we've been doing since '94, when our first record came out. I would say that the demographic changes nightly, as far as who's coming out. We're seeing now, since the radio...in America, the songs are being played on the radio a lot...I'm seeing a much younger demographic now. But we still haven't lost the 20-somethings, the30-somethings, the 40-somethings or the 50-somethings. Everybody's having a good time, it's a great mix.
M: In the package, they used the phrase, "unlike the somewhat contrived swing resurgence" etc about the Squirrel Nut Zippers. Do you really feel that the Squirrel Nut Zippers are contrived?
K: I know for a fact that the Squirrel Nut Zippers are just playing the music that they flat-out love.
S: They started when we did, in the early 90's and there just wasn't any scene like that at all happening then...
K: If you wanted to contrive yourself to not have a career in the music business...
S: That would be the way to do it, to be honest to with you.
M: Guys go into music to get chicks, and doing the swing thing...
S: Because you like music, because you play your instrument well.
K: We would've chosen alternative if it was a contrivance, because at that point, when they were coming out with their record & we were working on ours, that was the big music.
M: The great thing about alternative is that the word alternative swings around and kind of includes everybody.
S: They've tried to put the label alternative on a certain type of music, and I don't think that it applies anymore. The music is changing. There are other alternatives now. I think that techno music & swing music & ska music is just as alternative as grunge was in its' time.
M: You've said you're influenced by Black Flag as much Count Basie. Was that bombast?
S: We came from the 80s. We play swing music, but our influences are as vast as Black Flag as they are David Bowie or whoever. We've had all this music to be influenced by, whereas the people in the 20s & 30s only had classical to be influenced by, they didn't have the wild range of influences we had. They didn't have the wild array of influences that we do. I mean, they didn't have James Brown. We do.
M: My brother's a punk, and he keeps trying to convince me that Chuck Berry was the first punk.
S: He was one of them. And Louis Jordan. He was pretty out there.
M: There is no scene until music critics come in and make a scene.
S: That's right.
M: I wanted to make sure what you thought about SNZ, because they are, for lack of a better term, your scene.
S: SNZ; go see those guys anytime. You can't play that kind of music unless it comes from a certain place.
M: I can't. My ex boyfriend goes there. I'm banned from SNZ concerts.
K: You are? That would be a terrible thing to lose in a divorce.
M: I hope he hasn't found out about you guys, because I'll have to see him tonight. And that would kind of suck.
K: I'll make sure to dedicate a song to you.
M: Yeah. Hit on me from stage; he'd love that. Why do I talk about myself so much in interviews...how much importance does trad[ition] have for you?
K: I think tradition is important to us to a for a certain extent because we use swing music as one of our influences, and we definitely are a swing band, but I don't think we follow a traditional swing structure in songs. It has importance to a degree, but we also know that its' 1998, and we've got all sorts of other traditions to play in the mix. We dress up in suits because we're paying our respects to the swing masters.
S: Plus it's a cool way. The heritage of the music has always been that way. If a band is out and they're very influenced by the Grateful Dead, then you're going to see tie-dye. If you see somebody who's influenced by jazz, the obvious respect factor would be to dress up to the nines and have some respect for what it is. The fashion kind of goes with certain types of music. They walk hand in hand. As much as they're anti-fashion or not. It kind of blends. I think if someone wants to wear the suits & the hats & the nine yards, they should just go for it. If they also want to show up in shorts & a baseball hat, that's also fine with me.
M: The whole costume aspect is great.
K: It's wonderful to see men & women dressed up & dancing together & smiling & having a great time. We also enjoy seeing people in everyday clothes, shorts & caps. We just like seeing people into the music smiling clapping &having a great time. Dancing, boogying...
S: As long as we can reach them.
M: Swing is also more fun. You won't see anybody up & dancing at a Morrissey show.
K: We have a different message. We have a different influence. All our parents are still together.
S: Our message is very much joining in...very very positive.
M: You guys are becoming the Hollywood band.
S: It's been like that for a long time. We've always been one of the bands that appeals to the Hollywood crowd. And that's a good thing. It allows us to spread...and we got Swingers, which was a huge break for the music in general.
M: It was a good movie, too. There are some people who get in horrible movies. Nine Inch Nails was in Light of Day, so all the Nine Inch Nails fans have to suffer through that. It's kind of lucky that it was a good movie, so people can get that out of it, too.
S: Trent Reznor was in Light of Day?
M: They played the evil synthesizer band.
S: That was the evil synthesizer band? Light of Day, that was Michael J. Fox and Joan Jett? Holy shit. [Kurt starts to laugh] I didn't know that. I will go back & watch that now, because of you. That's great, I love that.
M: I haven't watched it yet, I'm waiting for the day. I kind of like doing that. When I was in my big cock rock phase, I watched Dirty Harry just 'cause Guns n' Roses were in the first five minutes.
S: We were in the first Porky's film. We were that country band. Remember that, Kurt?
K: No we weren't, we were the girls in the shower.
S: That's right. Some dirt on Big Bad Voodoo Daddy.
M: Kind of an exposé article. How do you feel about the whole trad[itional] revival? I mean, the suits, the cigars, the booze...
S: I think it's great. I think it's fun. People are going out & having a good time. It's new & fun. I love to drink. No mystery there.
M: That's the thing about the 90s, people still like to booze it up.
S: I love to booze it up, I write about it all the time.
M: Alcohol is the drug of choice for the swing scene, just like ecstasy is the drug of choice for the rave scene.
S: I think you're right. I think it's normal...alcoholics run in all sorts of categories & scenes & job descriptions.
[PR Woman comes over & tries to make me wrap it up. I offer to leave immediately, since I have no planned questions]
K: No, let's wrap it up. We can't just end like that. I don't know if you see alcohol as a really bad thing, but I don't think it's bad if somebody comes to our show & has a martini.
M: If Smirnov's came up to you & wanted to sponsor you...
S: They already have done that, everybody's already come to us to say that. I sing about gin & tonic, you don't think that Tangeria hasn't come to me yet? It's just not part of the message that we're gonna give. A number of companies have done that already, and we turned them down for specific reasons.
K: We're not going to support...we're not going get tour support from Camel, just like we're not going to do it from them.
S: People are gonna drink, they're gonna have a good time, and right now it's part of the fun. They're gonna drink anyway, and it's better that they drink a couple of martinis than drinking Bud Lights. It's a different gig.
M: It's classier, I don't think it tastes any better. It looks better in your hand.
K: Exactly. I think that's a big piece of it. People think it looks good in their hands, so they do enjoy the taste of a martini, just like having some wine with dinner.
S: It's the style & culture.
K: From the band's point of view, we don't drink before we go onstage, because we have to put on a great show, and it's a very physical show, it's 2 hours. But after the show we'll definitely have a few drinks to celebrate & talk & meet everyone & have a good time.
M: Well, that was interesting. That was a good last question.
S: It was a great last question. [Scotty props up my fragile, journalist's ego]
M: Should I ask you something silly now? Like what's the future? Are you going to go through a techno phase & get Puff Daddy to remix your songs?
S: Actually, yes.
K: That's so funny, actually, he just mentioned that 2 days ago at our concert.
M: Puff Daddy?
K: Yeah?
M: He's gonna remix your songs?
S: He's not going to mix our songs. He's not even allowed to listen to our records.
K: Even though he has the same Daddy.
M: I think it's funny how ska bans have "two-tone" in their name, or some sort of play off "ska", and swing bands are the same: Big Rude Jake, Big Bad Voodoo Daddy, Cherry Poppin' Daddies. No Puffy remix? Not going to let Billy Corgan produce the album?
S: Nope. We'll go it alone. We'll let Billy do his own thing. We'll just stick to our formula of getting in the studio, writing songs, taking them out to the country & tour...
K: Play some basketball.
M: The good thing about it is that swing is solid. 20 years down the line, if it's not popular, you can still play it at your family's wedding & feel good.
S: You're still playing good music. A lot of heritage.
M: It's not healing lepers, but...it's an ethical cut above.
S: It's somewhat noble.
K: We do benefits for the Surf Rider Foundation.
M: True...
After the tape shuts off, Kurt & I vie for the cherished Hawaiian donut. Although I offer it to him, he seems to have taken a shine to me, and refuses with a grin. He's awfully cute, especially in the gray top hat. That's top hats for you.
(c) tisiphone: toronto, ontario, canada: july 28, 1998.
It's you & me & the bottle makes
tonight (baby)
