title: I don't know!!!!!

Written by: smakdyyyke on 9/25/97 at 2:12PM. Anyone else out there have any big probs, not even like Cold Cold hearts is playing and I don't have a ride....I mean BIG shit....like yr about to die? Or a meterorite is about to smak into yr hed...I don't know, Maybe like yr sik of the no-encouragement or exclusivity that is controlling the scene? Like when a boy goes to a show and he gets beat, but then the girl he's with gets the eye and disregarded as being a babydyke, or stupid? I see it happen EVERY time I'm at a show, more encouragement, less judgement? maybe? Both of those are wrong, the gal and the guy getting it. This isn't a competition or a private club and I just kinda think sometimes we need to be a little more excepting at least 'till we know if that person is true or not to doing something, half of the grrrls I know are judging other grrrls, yet they themselves are only bullshitting about being real. If everyone wants revolution....then this isn't a game/fad/latest teenage craze and we need to stop acting like we're in jr. high. I don't know just typing my thoughts at the moment.

Replies:

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/25/97 at 4:56PM. or how the old girls hate new girls? the exclusitivety of it all? about how i am afraid to talk to other grrrls about my eating disorder because they think you're not a real feminist if you have one? or about how scared i get telling people because i am a hypocrite? that i can't get support because i know that they will backstab me? yeah, i have given it a little consideration and it sucks. i have had to deal with bulimia on my own and i have not told one soul and putting this post up is really scary for me because it is the first time i have admitted it outside my head.

Reply from: jessy on 9/25/97 at 9:42PM. i think that you are wrong- lots of girls have eating disorders and we talk about it and riot grrrl is about getting girls to accept their bodies. if you embrace yourself, then you accept yourself as you are. once you realize this, your bulimia should go away. tell your friends they will try to help you and get you involved in feminism, which you will find even more empowering. good luck.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/26/97 at 1:44AM. hmm.. "i think you are wrong" in response to some girl's fear? maybe what you meant was that no, girls won't react that way.. which i agree with. but fear is never rational like that. I think the sad thing is that everything gets cliquy eventually.. then its time to build a new castle.. *sigh* i dono.. the kids man, they're crazy

Reply from: erin on 9/26/97 at 8:38PM. sorry, but i'd have to agree with the girl who is afraid to talk to people about bulimia because of the reaction she knows she'll get. i have a compulsive overeating disorder, which means that i binge but do not purge. everytime i've told a "feminist" about this, they've completely denied the validity of my problem. because i'm not puking or starving myself, they don't see how i could possibly have a genuine struggle with food. i'm told that i need to "accept myself as i am" and "you don't have an eating disorder...you just have a healthy appetite. you just want to look like a barbie doll and you're mad because you don't!" um...no, i don't think so. force-feeding yourself for four hours straight isn't "a healthy appetite", and even if i'm of a "normal"/average weight, my eating patterns are not healthy. it's really easy to say "if you learn to accept yourself as you are, your eating disorder will go away". i only wish it was that easy, though... i've had these issues since i was sixteen, and with every step forward i seem to take two steps back. a lifetime of self-hatred is not unlearned overnight and years' worth of unhealthy patterns can't be erased in an instant. riot grrrl-and movements like it-no doubt are out there encouraging women to be the kick-ass warriors they know they can be, but these issues are a lot more complex than many think them to be and what we, as people struggling with food and our bodies, need more than anything are people who are willing to listen and try to understand. the first thing to understand is that it's all so very complex.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/27/97 at 9:40AM. I have a compulsive eating disorder and no one believes me. My mom said there isn't such thing and everyone else thinks it is not real because i am not 100 lbs overweight. BUT i have noticed a big health change over the years the kind you don't know about unless you know me now and then. I eat when i am bored , I eat when i am happy , i eat when i am sad etc.. I love eating . I eat when I am full . Actually I don't remeber the last time I felt hungry , like really hungry . Where your stomach growls and all that other stuff. At school durring lunch i try to eat as much as i possibally can in 20 min then i usually eat in the class right after that too. It started when i was in 6th grade I had already had my last growing spurt of my life . All of me had already developed . All my life people have said "You're soooo skinny you need to eat something" but i did eat , i ate the normal amounts that kids eat.In 6th grade the most important thing to me more important than anything else was being acepted . but all the kids would call me string bean and mean names so I would go home and eat as much as i could until i felt like i was going to puke then wait for the feeling to leave and still eat , at school i would eat 2 lunches and my breakfast each morning was huge. Then i stared gaining weight and eating became a habit like biting your nails. Now I eat and don't even realize I will be sitting in my room then all of a sudden i am in the kitchen . This past summer I told a friend about it and he was on the phone and I would tell him everytime I realized i was in the kitchen and he would keep tally marks . It was WAY over a hundred within less than 4 hours.

Reply from: lskdjf sodifhoihvoi on 9/27/97 at 12:03PM. dearest last anonymous my god if i didn't know any better i would have thought I wrote that last post! that is the same exact way i was/am. i wrote an essay about it, and i would like to share it with you as i have never once met a girl who had the compulsive eating thing for the same reasons: being too skinny as a child. if you are interested email me. if not, thank you for at least showing me that i am not alone. xoxo

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/28/97 at 12:19PM. i think it's great you can all talk about this. i totally agree that most riot grrls think the cure to eating disorders is just to accept your body and that barbie is to blame for everything. that really annoys me because they are just over simplifying everything. i have HUGE problems with food and although i never mention it people that i know who identify themselves as riot grrrls don't like this. i have had anorexia (nearly died from that) i've been bulimic for about 3 years, i am often a completely obsessive compulsive eater, i find it nearly impossible to eat in front of people..... it goes on. well all the girls who i know who write zines and stuff really do think i'm crazy when they notice i don't eat, they act all concerned and ask why but i say it's okay and they just go and write some snotty thing about eating disorders in their zine, going over all the stuff that's been said before. well, there was really no point in me posting this but i just wanted to say something. and if anyone wants to talk about their eating disorders to someone who will understand just leave a message here and i'll give you my email address or something. that's all i have to say.

Reply from: D on 9/28/97 at 1:46PM. Having an eating disorder is a shitty reason for people to disregard you as a feminist. It just shows that there is more work to be done to tear down the myths upheld by the media and society. I consider myself a feminist, but i've been through it all and it's not over. I started out with anorexia at age twleve, then bulimia soon follwed. I've been through counseling, but i still revert every so often. Throwing up for almost eight years wreaks havoc on our fragile bodies. I'll probably never be able to have children even if i wanted to, because i can't digest anything very well, i can't get the proper nourishment. I can't digest anything that's not bland, and if i feel ill, the first reaction my body has is to get rid of what's in my stomach. A friend almost died last christmas, she was 5'7" and weighed seventy pounds. She's doing better finally. My close friend and i obsess over food together. My girlfriend is getting sick now. My fifteen year old sister thinks she's fat, althoughs he has the dimensions of a super model. We need to be willing to hear each other out and support one another, not tear each other down. Forget how much we weigh, what our measurements are. Just like how special we are, and not blame a plastic doll. I remember my mother putting me on the scale at age eleven, telling me i couldn't wear my new bathing suit until i weighed 85 pounds. I was already five feet tall by then, and weighed 95, but she thought i was overweight. Now i think my mom was overcompensating for the fact that she is overweight. Anyhow, the bathing suit never got worn. It's sick. People come in all shapes and sizes, and we need to appreciate the beauty in all of them. Then maybe someday my ex-gf won't ask me if i think she's fat, after all the shit she's been through with my unhealthy relationships with food. I want her to know that i think she's beautiful, that i don't hold her body to the same ideals i hold myself to. Thank god. I guess i'm rambling, but i just want to say that feminism is more than loving your body, though it's a big part. It's loving every thing feminine and reaching out and being there for each other. Call a friend today and tell her that you love her. Blah blah blah.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/28/97 at 4:48PM. D what you wrote is incredibly incredibly beautiful. well said, disturbing yet true, and i just want to tell you: i think you are beautiful, i know i don't even know who you are, but your words. stay cool. -me

Reply from: eyeball on 9/28/97 at 4:57PM. Wow. It's really hot here today and I tried to answer another post but it didn't make much sense so I hope this one does. You guys totally rock. I completely respect you so much for talking about your stuff. I've never had an eating disorder but I did have a very serious life-threatening drug problem,(talk about people passing judgement on you) so I know how hard it is to realize you even have things like this to deal with, let alone talk about them. Drugs and eating disorders are different things but I kinda think they both come from the same place to a certain extent, and I guess I just want to say, hang in there. You can change your life. You can get over things that you NEVER thought you could get past. It took me till I was 24 years old and it got pretty fucking bad (at 5'7" and 85lbs I should have been anorexic) but I fixed it. You can fix it. You can be fucking healthy and happy and learn from the shit you've gone through and turn it into a possitive thing. It's long and hard though, and I wish I could say the magic words and make everything cool. Hang in there, I'll be thinking about you. And NEVER give up.

Reply from: replyer #1 on 9/28/97 at 9:05PM. hi it's me.. i was umm... poster #1? the girl that first talked bout my eating disorder. yea. anyways, i think all of this conversation just rocks, not to mention an AMAZING letter i received. one thing i think has not been touched apoun is how society likes to make it a non- porblem. we hear, we read, we talk of the severe cases (although they are sever and awful, they deserve attention). alot of the apprehension i feel has to do with the fact now i can control (right word?) my weight enough that it always stays between 125-135. my binges are usually about 1000 calories, and i purge by throwing up the oil, and then using laxatives. (if you lose oil first yr abdominals dont cramp so much) . as awful as it sounds, what people want to hear is of these constnant, 5000 cal binges where you vomit it all , a la tv special. im not saying that isnt awful and worthy of attention, but i get feeling swept under the carpet. "al girls go through that" which is a0 fucked to say that all girls do that because it is unhealthy (to start) and b) fucked because it makes me feel MORE WORTHLESS. i have days where i cant go to school because my ass is too sore from purging. i have poor teeth from stomache fluid from puking. same for mouth sores. and then i was told by a crisis line worker that this behavior is NORMAL?!? also, i want to say this for me and as a message to all the other eating disorder people out there- write to others. just stream of concsious. these past few days of communicating have been SO therapeutic for me. i would leave my email address but it has my name in it and im uncomfortable with that but when i feel more secure ill put it up. everyone is SO BRAVE for posting i feel really proud of this string. umm.. xoxo me

Reply from: ednie on 9/28/97 at 10:46PM. (After writing this I have returned to the top to apologize for it's length, but it is a stream-of-consciousness rant that is near and dear to my heart.)I believed for 24 years that I was a compulsive eater. Aren't all fat people? I've been fat since I was 5. My mother is fat, all my sisters, except one (although she's now struggling with it) has been fat since they were pre-adols. My brother is fat. We all have struggled with this and I fully blame both my parents for many of our negative self-images. My mother always told us girls that we were going to have to learn to "accept" the way we were (but she never insinuated that we could just love who we were without knowing that our fat was disgusting). My father always said we were going to have a hard time finding men to love us, except for my baby sister who wasn't fat and who was his favorite. We all grew up hating ourselves and being embarrassed of each other. I have tried to confront my mother and my sisters about this and it gets me no where. I had a sister who was killed by a drunk driver two years ago who went to her grave believing no one in the world really loved her--and I know a large part of that is she internalized the assumptions of my parents and our society that fat people are undesirable, disgusting, unloveable. She was one of the most beautiful and gracious people I ever met. But she DIED believing she could not be loved! I remember TRYING to be anorexic as a teen. I wanted desperately to be accepted by everyone (and I thought I wanted the attention of boys). I was totld repeatedly that it took willpower!! And if I couldn't be thin then I wasn't a very strong person, and I obviously didn't love myself enough. About two years ago I was talking with one of my professors and she was confessing to me her exercise and drug addiction in the late 70s and through much of the 80s. It came up because I was working myself up to speak for the first time to a group of people about how I felt about fat as a body image issue. The one thing she said to me that I will NEVER FORGET is that in her mind I loved myself to much to diet or to be anoreixc, because to do those things was to inflict pain and abuse upon oneself, and she felt that only someone who truly hates themself could go through that. That was amazing to me! No one had ever offered me such a gem! I have struggled all my life with this contradiction of self-love/self-hate: I have always thought very highly of myself, but because I am supposed to be so "undesireable" I felt I had to hate myself--that the only way to prove I was loveable (even by myself!) was if some other person deigned to grace me with his (of course!) love. I was taught that to even love myself was despicable, pathological! So now I am a lesbian. And aren't lesbians supposed to be free of the constraints of ideal body image issues (at least that's what so many of the women around here say)? But lesbians are as guilty of worshipping at the alter of "the ideal bod" (whatever that is!) as any heterosexual person is! I often times feel even more excluded from "the community" of lesbians than I ever did from the heterosexual world. I still feel like I'm supposed to hate myself, and when I express my frustration about that I am automatically being assumed to be expressing my own self-hatered, and I am looked upon with sadness because I haven't yet learned to accept myself! Fuck that! I have accepted myself as much as anyone in this world can! ANYONE WHO HAS THE POWER TO HONESTLY EXPOSE THEIR MOST SECRET "FAILURES" AND "FEARS" TO THE POSSIBLE CRITICISMS OF OTHERS CANNOT BE ACCUSED OF NOT ACCEPTING THEMSELVES. I may not have the "problem" of anorexia or bulimia or binging or compulsive eating, but I too have to live with (for the rest of my life) the consequences of being a fat girl in a world that hates fat women, that hates women period! That is something that we all must deal with. It doesn't go away. We do not achieve a level of utopic "contentedness". Our world is one that does not view the human body in all its diversity as a valuable and tresured thing. We live in a world that contains, confines, and restricts. THe best thing you can do is betray that world! Speak up about the battles you fight! That's feminism!!!

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/29/97 at 0:13AM. i used to do a lot of bad stuff, ot necissarily eating disoders but with drugs and im not sure who posted the thing about how they had a drug problem but i would feel SO uncomfortable talking about that at a riot grrl meeting and even though ideally yr supposed to be accepted, its like...really not like that and from experience and knowing the things i know about the girls in the local riot grrl chapter i wouldnt even talk about it cos i know htey wouldnt understand. most eof em are these hyper intellectual (well, some), book reading educational people who are going to school and its so middle class sheltered and talking about judgments being passed, i already feel as thoiugh im looked at as a semi scumbag cos of my attitude and sharing all my expperiences with what i did would be so everwherling and everyoe would just think i was a fuck up even more than they do now.

Reply from: erin on 9/29/97 at 0:29AM. fuck yeah! it's so great to check back everyday and see another amazing and inspring message added to this post. ednie: your words are really powerful. i relate to your sister's feelings that no one will ever really love her because of her body, even though i'm only 140 lbs, which is pretty average by most people's standards. all of my fucked up issues with food have made my stomach all weird...the skin is stretched out and different colors and stretchmarked...and everytime i'm intimate with someone i don't want them to see it with the lights on. it's very sad. sometimes i'll sleep with people i don't even particularly like just to prove to myself that someone actually finds me desirable...or maybe it's because i think that my body is ALL i have to offer. either way, it's a problem. as a bisexual woman, i HAVE admittedly found more acceptance of my body in the lesbian community than among men...guys i've dated have always made me feel like they'd be more attracted to me if i lost 15 or 20 pounds, whereas women have perceived me as being totally "strong" and "athletic", or whatever. for awhile i was involved with someone and after being intimate for some time he decided that he didn't want to be anymore, and i totally got all down on myself and believed that it was because i wasn't skinny. since age 16 i've postponed full participation in life because i never think i'm "skinny enough". not going swimming, not approaching people i'm attracted to, and, when i was at my worst, not even leaving the house because i was so disgusted with my own body. and yet i echo the sentiments of the other women on here...i'm hardly judgmental of OTHERS' bodies to the degree that i am about my own. i find plenty of chubby women to be totally sexy and actually prefer rounder forms to thin ones. added to my insecurities about my weight is the fact that i don't shave and i am very hairy for a female. this seems to be more of an issue than my weight in the eyes of others, although i think hairy is beautiful. one time a guy who'd been flirting with me for a long time backed off when he found out that i didn't shave my legs....i can know in my mind that he's an asshole, but it's hard not to let those kinds of pervasive attitudes bother me. 99 percent of men, and even a good percentage of lesbians, think that unshaven women are "disgusting", and this knowledge bothers me, but i refuse to shave because i LIKE being this way. umm....i've digressed from the original subject, but i needed to get all of this out. thanks for listening, kids. hopefully with increased dialogue and understanding we can all move closer to living in a world where a diversity of body sizes, shapes, types, and aesthetics are beautiful.

Reply from: eyeball on 9/29/97 at 9:39AM. Hey again, I was was just reading over my little pep talk and just wanted to clarify. When I said never give up it kinda sounded like I thought you were flawed or something was wrong with you. I didn't mean it that way, not at all. I just meant never give up on life until you're really happy, and that that's really possible. It takes a while sometimes. take care.

Reply from: jessy on 9/29/97 at 10:06AM. wow. i understand a bit more about this body oppression issue, im sorry if i insulted anyone with my first post. surprisingly, this issue isnt really dealt with in my riot grrrl group. we are told to look at ourselves, and love ourselves, and i was never able to understand a problem with that. but now i get it. thanks.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/29/97 at 12:55PM. erin- i completely understand what you say about not fully participating in life because of weight issues, i do that constantly and it's kind of relieving to see someone admits to that too. i always feel that if i lose a little more wieght i will be able to go to some place i want to go or do something i want. but then even if i'm at the weight i want to be at i still feel too fat. i find my self always making excuses about not going places because of it. the most fucked up thing is me not even going to see bands i love , like team dresch,f because of it. and being too scared to go places where there is food and people and i'll be expected to eat and not make excuses, and if i don't eat for a few days they think i'm crazy. well, i think i just noticed these things about myself because i never thought of them before, so thankyou for your post. all you other people rock!

Reply from: pixigrrrrl on 9/29/97 at 1:39PM. So at first I was gonna do this ANONYMOUS, then I realized if i did that, then I would just be skrewing myself twice.......ok, that sounds confusing, let me start over.....I have an eating disorder, and a soooper low self image. (Big Shock) Ok, so first I say this with my REAL NAME posted which is soooo fucking difficult for me to post on this thing, it's like saying I'm weak, OK WHATEVER, I'm babbling....ANYWAY, my problem is in my head, I know that, but it's a fucking struggle EVERYDAY for me to look in the mirror, and now especially since I have a beautiful, caring, loving woman in my life. I care so much of what she thinks of me, I shouldn't, but I do. I hate what I see in the mirror, I hate to be naked, even alone....I have a hard time with sex because of this. My gurlfriend LOVES ME. Now I'm psycally sick because of the way I treat my body. It's such a fucking contradiction and mind fuck....FLASH TO 3 YEARS BACK- I think I'm this obease monster, so I pick at food, and continually drink diet soda and coffee so I'm soooo wired from caffeene, I won't need to eat.....ok, so I do this to myself and end up skrewing up my intestines (My self starvation is not the ONLY reason I'm sick now, but a BIG contributor!), now I'm forced to face my food issues because the reality is this: If I don't eat healthy, I DIE. *FLASH TO 2 WEEKS AGO- Now I'm Vegan, not by choice really. My body no longer can process dairy and meat products, no biggie, I was vegitarian for 5 years......but the fact I HAVE TO EAT ALL THE TIME freaks me out. How am I supposed to loose weight eating all the time?????? I know, I'm 26 and should know by now how metabolisms werk and all that, but in MY HEAD it doesn't make sence. It kills my gurlfriend to see me struggle with meals and that I can't be naked next to her, she loves me, chubby or not. So my point to this very long, boring post is this, I AM SOOOOO FUCKING GLAD THAT I HAVE A PLACE LIKE THIS TO TALK ABOUT THIS, I AM NOT ALONE, AND IT'S NOT OK TO LET SOCIETY'S "IDEA" OF THE PERFECT WOMAN, FUCK WITH ME SOOOO MUCH THAT I SLOWLY BEGAN TO DETROY MY SELF. Thank You for listening. Jeni

Reply from: i eat i eat i starve i starve on 9/29/97 at 1:43PM. i can so relate to not participating in the things you want to because of lack of confidence. for me, i feel undesirable, not becuse of my weight but because of my face. i am ugly. i don't know if its right to say that. i guess i will say i feel ugly. i feel unimportant because of my looks, which i know, i know, its messed up. but so many years of thinking a certain way is *really* hard to undo. and i have to deal with the fact that i hate my disproportioned body, my crooked nose, my flat hair, etc etc everyday. so, maybe i am off topic, but ... how could i feel better? its funny, the tiniest things could make me feel so great. just putting on an old bikini kil record makes me just jump around and feel so powerful and cool it doesn't matter what i look like cuz i just got it going on! (anyone else get like that?) but then i'll be in school, and i will **compare** myself to others. this is what gets me royally fuct. because i am not like her i am automatically less of a person. i hate feeling like that. as far as the intimacy thing goes, like erin talked about, i could TOTALLY relate! i have never had a relationship for fear of many things-rejection, humiliation, danger. danger of ruining an already fragile self esteem, rejection of my real self and my body, humiliation because i am not worthy enough to be cared for. its hard to imagine someone caring about me. yet, i do stand up for myself in some situations, so obviously something inside of me feels worthy. i wish it would spread. yeah, i am totallyu babbling but i figured we could all use this opportunity to get it out of our heads. --me

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 9/29/97 at 1:56PM. okay. i'm so nervous right now. i'm really scared. i've been checking up on this post everyday. and everyday i cry. i'm so totally touched by everyone's honesty and i think yer all incredibly brave. i eat i eat i starve i starve. that pretty much sums up my life. i'm obsessed. and i've been able to relate to everything everyone has said so far. i wish i knew how to help all of you, but i don't even know how to help myself. i'm ashamed. i can't even post my name because i don't want to anyone or even myself to see my name with these words. i'm too embarassed to talk to anyone in real life. and that's why i'm so glad that i can talk about it here. i guess that's all i have to say right now. just thanks. thanks.

Reply from: eyeball on 9/29/97 at 3:59PM. Wow, I check back here all the time too, maybe just because this is so fuckinf real.It breaks my heart to hear you guys talk like this about thinking you're not worthy, (not that I never do it) because it it so not true. Every single person I've talked to at any length here has been soooooo rad. That beleif that you're not good enough is just not true. I wish there was something I could say to make you all know that in your hearts. Pixi, I love you sister, I do. I know how hard it must have been to put your name up. I urge all of you to put your names up. Maybe not with your statements but just alone so everyone on this post has someone to talk to. There is no fucking reason for anyone who posted or even those of you who didn't to be ashamed about ANYTHING. It's life man. Don't let this post just come and go, please. Talk to each other and don't stop. Talk to me (even though this particular problem is not mine I might understand) talk to the goddess PIXI. Just don't be alone. There's no reason to be.

Reply from: j. on 9/29/97 at 4:50PM. sorry this is going to be so long and rambling but--i, too am a compulsive eater trying to be anorexic. i've tried many times, thinking, "okay, i just won't eat for two weeks" but them it's always "oh but tonight's my favorite" or "i'll start tomorrow" which the starving myself part never really happens. i guess it's really a good thing, sort of, but i still am 80(rough estimate) pounds over- weight and i know i'll always be this way and a compulsive eater at nearly 15 years. i have stretch marks on the side of my arms(which means i NEVER wear sleeveless shirts) and whenever another appears i use a razor to connect them to the best i can cause i'd rather have the fact that i cut myself overshadowing how fat i am. self-mutilation for me was never a problem before so i won't ever say an eating disorder is just about eating, cuase it is so far beyond and fucked. this also means i NEVER argue with people in school, homophobes, whatever, cause it's just like no matter how good an argument i put up the answer will always be, "well you're fat." this is one of the many reasons i guess i'm addicted to the comp. but i don't feel like getting into it and the fact that i'm a liar, and both my parents have drug or alcohol problems, thank god i've never used and don't plan on it. does anyone else have this picture in their head, like, "five years from now" where they're this person they think they should be? every day i tell myself "in 6 months when i'm thin and my hair is fixed and i've got a whole new wardrobe and i have lived- i'm going to go talk to him" or whatever but i know then i'd still be too embarassed because because of being fat i have stretch marks on my arms, near my knees, and (the reason i plan to not get intimate with anyone for a long, long time) many on the inside of my thighs and i'd feel too guilty, you know, having them removed through surgery due to the fact, like i'd be told that i'm just like these shallow women having (which i'm not saying is always bad)breast implants, etc. and i too am shallow for being so obsessive. i'm also obsessive about my breast size(not wanting to have the s.m.'s there removed because it'd lessen my size) and they're on the part of my chest between my armpits and breasts and very large scars from trying to scatch them out which means i never go swimming, i don't wear shorts, go out much at all...etc. so i can totally relate. and i hate being alone.

Reply from: bones beneath the flesh on 9/29/97 at 4:54PM. i am typing this between bites of fudge cookies... i am hating myself because my butt is too big, my stomach to flabby, my tits hang to low... i eat and i eat because it comforts me... i am content when my insides are full.... i feel complete.... and then i look in the mirror and it all goes away... so i eat some more...... my best friend now does heroine b/c it makes her thin and beautiful. those marks on her arms are beauty marks... with those circles under her eyes, she doesn't need eyeliner anymore..... those bones poking out make everyone see just how sexy she really is..... so disturbing why do we do this to ourselves.... we are smart enough to know that beauty can't be bought in a store... beauty isn't about emulating this week's covergirlsupermodel. b/c some of us are skinny, some of us are round... but none of us are TOO anything.... but even so we tell ourselves day after day after day that maybe tomorrow we will be just the right weight/measurement..... and if you fall for the trick... if you end up being one of us, one who looks in the mirror and wants to shatter the glass to hide what we think is the truth, one of us who has to wear baggy clothes to hide the things we see.... then you get kicked out of the club... no one wants to be your friend... you�re not really a feminist... hell maybe we are even contagious...... someone might be afraid of catching low self esteem from us..... i don�t know where i am trying to go with this... there are things in me that i didn�t realize until i wrote this.... things in me that i though, THAT I SWORE, would never ever never ever be part of me... and they were in there all along..... goddam the things that make me feel these ways.... goddam it all...... but thanks to everyone for helping me (and probably i am not the only one) come to terms with things.... i know this is gonna be a long process.... but maybe i am on the way to where i thought i was all along......

Reply from: ednie on 9/29/97 at 6:58PM. This is the first time I've been able to check in on this thread since I wrote last night--and now there are tons more posts. I haven't seen anything like this (except on the American Studies listser when ID4 came out--that was a riot!). I think the thing that's most amazing is how honest everyone is being. I read your words and I'm having a hard time not crying (I'm in a "public" space, where it's okay to laugh, but NEVER cry--it's academic). Some of the fears and anxieties I've lived with for so long are, amazingly enough, shared by so many of you. I, too, have a hard time dealing with intimacy (because I was molested several times as a child, but also because I don't want to hear another person's criticisms, or to see that hatred in their eyes, feel the hatred in their touch). I, too, hesitated before posting my real name. I, too, obsess about my eating habits (although I have come to a point in my life where I will not deny my love of food--I LOVE FOOD! I love food that is well made, I love food that is made by people I care for, I love to make food for those I love, I love to eat with my friends!! Food is an important part of our lives. Food is sensual and food is social, and yes it can become something negative in our lives, too. The first step for me involved acknowledging that food is not the enemy. I was recently diagnosed with Type II Diabetes and since then I have had to change my eating habits (I'm non-insulin dependent and at this time controling through diet), but it hasn't been as difficult as I imagined because I had already started developing good eating habits (really good food helped with that:)!)But still, the doctors always say I'm Diabetic because I'm "obese" (their term) and insist that "losing even ten pounds" could make a difference. Since August 20th I've lost 20lbs., and I'm supposed to be HAPPY. But how is it that after 10 years of struggling just to stay between 255-265 I should now be thrilled that in three months I'm down to 235? That's like 35lbs--and for three months that's not HEALTHY! But that doesn't matter 'cause all that matters is being thin thin thin--no matter how you do it you gotta be thin!!!! NO matter how hard I labor to feel good about myself and to live a healthy life as a fat person, I am constantly being told that it's not enough--they'd rather me be thin and deathly (i.e., I'm almost surprised they haven't offered me heroin--and I know that's a joke in bad taste) than fat and fit! You guys, don't stop talking about this. I have NEVER witnessed such amazing honesty about body image, and from people across the spectrum. We need to have this conversation--we need to remember that we share the smae problem, whether we're fat, too skinny, anorexic, bulemic, a self-mutilators (I have than in my history too), drug addicts, alcoholic, or any combination of these and other habits I haven't mentioned. Like I think I said last time, we all live in a world that hates the human body (not just, but especially, the female body)--our world hates the fact that we are "trapped" in such a mortal form. And that's the saddest thing of all!! I think I love you all to pieces right now. I also think the reason I woke up so happy today was knowing that this conversation was happening. And now I can go home, test my blood sugar, eat a rockn' dinner of stuffed eggplant and grade my students pretty good personal narratives. Maybe I'll even eat some ice cream. And maybe I'll even reflect for a little while on how I'm gonna get the girl I'm crushing on to like me--fat and all.

Reply from: lisa on 9/29/97 at 8:11PM. ohmigawd, ednie! yer so amazing! i felt horrible all day thinking about these posts and how i didn't even have the guts to sign my name...now that i've read yers, i've got this huuuge silly smile on my face! i don't know what else to say...yer writing is just so powerful...thanx, luv me

Reply from: laura on 9/29/97 at 10:39PM. i don't usually use my name here, but i thought it was important this time. eating disorders, drug addictions, sexual abuse, self mutilation, etc are nothing to be ashamed of and nothing that anyone should make you feel like less of a feminist for going through. i have lived through/am still living through all of these issues and then some. they are part of what make me me and what make each of us who have posted here who we are. they are not things i would choose to live if i had the choice, but i know i am a stronger person for having done so. i would like to say that if you keep fighting the good fight that things will get better and the problems will eventually subside. i would like to say that, but i can't. i've been a bulimic/anorexic for over 11 years and it hasn't gotten much easier. i get "better" for periods and then something happens and it all spirals out of control once again. i am convinved that having an eating disorder is like being an alcoholic - you always have the problem. the expression of the problem might go away, but the underlying issues always remain. i will always have issues surrounding food and my body. i have come to accept that. i think that knowing that this is going to be an ongoing struggle has been an important step for me. this isn't going to go away, so i have to learn to live with it. the one aspect of this entire eating disorder discussion that seems to have been overlooked to me is control. i think eating disorders are as much about control as they are about body image. i didn't used to believe this, but time has shown it to be true. i puke to control the uncontrollable in my life. when things are going bad, when things feel out of control, etc, i puke and, for the briefest of seconds, things are brought back into control - i am in control. i think it is also often about punishing yourself. when something goes wrong, it gets internalized. for example, i know when my boyfriend says he found someone else attractive, i think "if i were just skinnier, if i were more beautiful, this wouldn't have happened", so i puke and hope to make myself so. when i have a shitty day at work or a fight with my mom or whoever, i puke and i feel better, for the moment. it's such an incredible release of stress. it's almost like when the food leaves my body so do all the problems, at least for the moment. it's odd how such an uncontrollable act can seemingly bring so much control. i think maybe that it's because our bodies are one of the last frontiers that we can truly call our own. it is the one thing that we have almost total control over. i can't remember who said it, but they said, "the body's not a temple, it's a loaded gun". i think that's true. i could babble on about this for infinity, so if anyone feels like talking more, feel free to email me. i'd be happy to continue to discuss with anyone. remember, you have nothing to be ashamed of. we all cope in different ways. this should be about surviving and overcoming, not dividing and hiding. this should also be about re-imaging ourselves and finding healthier ways to cope. much easier said than done though, i know. a friend of mine recently said that she can't wait for the day that something bad happens and she doesn't make it a reflection on her body. i can't wait for that day either.

Reply from: jefff on 9/30/97 at 10:41AM. whoa.. i stumbled across this thread after reading erin's zine post. and after 45 minutes of reading, i am just flatned.. i have alot of mixed emotions. on one hand, im ashamed of mi own ignorance about this issue. at the same time i am am completely inspired with all of the honesty in yr posts. this is what the message board was created for. and i all te time ive been "here" this is these are the raddest messages ive ever read. still tho i am really upset, obviuosly because of the pain u all face in yr lives, but also to see that you feel uncoftorable talking about yr problems within the scene, a place that should be a safehaven. i dont know... i guess i just want to say thank you for shareing. and mi heart goes out to all you. take care, jeff

Reply from: amy on 9/30/97 at 11:49AM. well as everyone is now saying who the are and not using the 'anomymous viewer' thing i thought i might as well say that i posted messages 8 and 18. now i feel really dumb, well at least i'm being an honest dumb person and that's not so bad

Reply from: lisa on 9/30/97 at 1:20PM. amy, don't feel dumb...yer incredible...n' i admire you...this entire thread has been amazing...after reading everyones posts, i have this incredible feeling...there are tons of people here that i can relate to about this issue...now, i don't want to upset anyone...but, i was wondering if anyone would mind if i put their post in my zine...i don't have to put yer name in, if you'd rather i didn't...and i won't put anything in unless i have permission from you...let me know, okay...thanx alot...luv, me

Reply from: erin m on 9/30/97 at 2:13PM. holy shit. i forget who wrote something about how you promis yrself what you'll be like in months ahead but i remember when i was 16 (and no i cant fit into the clothes i wore then ), i was always telling myself, " when im 18 ill be so rad and ill be all pretty and everyone will like me"...and now here i am. 18, about 10 pounds heavier, i still havent grown upwards and im not the bomb.......half of me is okay, half of me feels like i failed at something that i still cant pin-point but i must have done something wrong cos im not like all the fasion pretty girls at the shows at the library or im not being drooled over by the *insert person of choice here*.....its so fucking lame. i get all pissed at myself for thinking like this and then ill go to harbor house and eat fries and wear overalls and say fuck it. sometiimes i jsut wish nothing existed. but on ahappier note..... pixi, JEN i think yr cute as fuck ...so that may not change anything but im saying it cos people have a big goddamn problem with saying anything nice to each other but it strue and yr rad. so fuck everyone else..... xxox, erin

Reply from: Jeni aka: Pixi Grrrl on 9/30/97 at 2:18PM. Shit man, about a week ago I was debating if I should keep posting here just cos' it seemed to be turning into a place of attitude and arguments, not DISCUSSIONS and DEBATES like I feel it used to be, ANYEEWAYS, I am so glad that were talking and HELPING eachother. I mean SERIOUSLY I have NEVER been able to discuss my body image issues with anyone but my gurlfriend and my mother, and now here is this CYBER THINGIE with 29 OTHER people struggleing with the same shit! You guys FOR REAL, THANK YOU. I wish I could hug you all for not critisising me and loving me in yr own ways. I need this comeraderie right now, and it feels good knowing I may help someone else along the way. Big Cyber Hugs! Jeni O+O+

Reply from: janeeta on 9/30/97 at 3:37PM. shit today is the first day i've cried about this... i mean this post hurts me like hell to read this b/c i am slapping myself in the face waking up to all the things i've overlooked.... i know i don't have as big of problems as a lot of you...but there are things i deny myself b/c i don't think i deserve them b/c i am not pretty enough or skinny enough.... and it's so ridiculuos that ANYONE shjould have to feel this way..... i love everyone who has posted here... this has been the most cathartic, awakening and enlightening thing to happen in a helluva long time.... i wish i could hug all of you.... make each and every one of you love you the way that i do.....but i can't... no one can.... we just have to help each other get through this....... i know i always go on rambling incoherently..but it's hard to type thru tears......i just can't put the things i feel into a code of letters.......my feelings are more important than that... oh geez.... i don't know what to say other than i love all of you and that you are some really empowering people...people that have changed my life forever........i posted the post by flesh beneath these bones... or whatever it was i called myself... something like that... i don't think that there is anything wrong with being anonymous.... i mean these are personal things and talking about them at all is such a huge step... but i have nothing to hide... nothing to be ashamed of... i am determined to be stronger......

Reply from: janeeta on 9/30/97 at 3:39PM. i meant to say bones beneath the flesh.... that was me... that's all......

Reply from: ednie on 9/30/97 at 6:21PM. To the poster who wants to put this thread in her zine--you can use mine! I've actually been thinking of something like that myself, although, since I'm located in academic circles, I keep thinking of more "professional" places (a failure of my imagination, I know:). Last night when I got home after I wrote ya'all, I spoke with my friend Chris and told her about how in shock I am from this conversation. I started crying and trying to explain how there has never been ANYONE in this stupid little university town who I have been able to share these things with and feel like they were truly being heard. I have tried and tried and tried, but people can't seem to really hear it, which is so sad because what I'm hearing on this message board is clearly an indication that there are more people out there who understand than I've ever been able to believe. I cant believe this is something we've been so silent about. Why are we required to keep our mouths shut about the things that matter most--like our lives? I want to say more but I have to go to a meeting. I miss you when I'm away. I'll be back as soon as I can. love, ednie P.S. I wonder if we could all write a collective zine? We could call it something cool with "chainsaw" in it.

Reply from: ZeePp on 9/30/97 at 8:44PM. i think pixi is totally rad too [n' cute as fuck!]...n' so is everyone else here! janeeta, yer the sweetest! big bearhugs fer you, fer all of you! thanx alot ednie! i totally appreciate it! yer amazing...and that collaborative chainsaw kids zine is a neato idea! how would we do it?...oh, i just can't get away from this thread! i need to get some sleep...nitey nite..luv ya all, lisa

Reply from: Not important on 9/30/97 at 9:04PM. I have had Bulimia for the last three years, noone really knows it because I *AM* overweight. When I was in 10th grade, I began taking laxatives after every meal - at least four, because I found and continue to find the idea of vomiting disgusting. I would flush everything I put into my body out the other end, and even though I stopped taking them, I instinctly have to use the restroom after every meal. I dont know what I should do to stop, I've tried holding it but that just makes me constipated, you know? So I dont know. I can't really call myself a feminist, being a male, but I am one at heart and I do know that there's nothing wrong with having an eating disorder. It's just a disease, like being a drug addict or having pneumonia. A Disease which is very hard to cure.

Reply from: gemma on 10/1/97 at 1:56PM. hi.. its me again... grub, this is so wonderful. like pixi said, i myself was getting sick of it here until this string started.. so uh yea, my names up now.. i was the first reply girl, and i feel ok bout being non-anomious now, although it freaks me out a bit because someone i was close to for a LONG time reads here, and she does not know and i dont feel ready to deal with her yet but... anyways, cuz of this string i ended up going to a doctor. not my doctor, but a womens clinic one. i am feeling a bit hopeful. this has been one of my weight- gaining weeks but im not freaking out as much. this is for eveyone that posted, but 'it doesnt matter' mostly- email me! 'i/d matter' it does and yr problem seems really like mine.. i wish you would talk about, and i hope we can talk about it. well, wow. when i put my post up, this is not what i expected. thank you. xoxo gemma

Reply from: KatGrrrl on 10/3/97 at 8:51AM. I suffer from depression/eating disorder and sometimes i get so depressed that i hurt myself Ive even attempted suicide!! i cant deal with normal everyday things like breakups and ect.. i also cant deal with life so i look for an escape!! i never actualy excepted myself no matter what i do i never think im pretty and i see myself as fat even though im told constently how buetiful i am and that im not fat i just cant except it!! i dont love myself!! im co dependant i depend on other poeple to make me happy!! whaen i know you are the only person that can make you happy!! I go to a conselor and a phycologist my consler has realy helped me out but i still dont love myself!! i also have a low self esteem so i dont think anyone will ever like me or love me. But i would never say someone isnt a feminist just because you have a mental problem. cause thats not true!! i think a feminist is someone who doesnt put themselves below men and stands up for themselves and other girls. its about being yourself and showing the world that just because youre faced with a problem youre not just gonna back down or run to someone else to solve it !! i dont know maybe thats not true but thats what i think!! so there!!:P but if you dont agree then tell me youre opinion I'll listen!! But im just telling you right now im sensitive!! so dont hurt me!! or else!! i have friends in the mofia!! just kidding!! im retarded im gonna go !! i cant belive i actually signed my name to this!!

Reply from: ednie on 10/4/97 at 1:00AM. Hey there folks! It looks like we've all gotten pretty exhausted on this thread. I'm not surprised; this has been pretty amazing. I've been thinking about what everyone has said all week, and I've been talking to friends about how amazing this has been. I'm trying to think of some useful and fun things we might do so that this conversation doesn't become filed away in some dusty corner of cyberspace and neglected. I was actually discussing it with my therapist this morning (one good thing about going to college is "free" therapy:P ) and she and I are thinking this is a good project for me. What do you all think? I'm in the middle of writing my dissertation, which I'm totally digging (it's on third wave feminism and feminist political consciousness among young women), but it's a dreadfully painful process and I need something fun to keep me together. Writing a dissertation feels very passive and I need some ACTION!!!!! So come on, let's put our heads together and do something really wild!! I think we should all collaboratively create a zine (I have access to some computer equipment, although I'm a techno-dweeb, and I can xerox stuff pretty easily). I'm really unwilling to let you all go (can you tell?) Please email me, or post here so everyone can keep informed!! I hope you are all taking care of yourselves. love, ednie

Reply from: gemma on 10/4/97 at 5:49PM. ednie, that is a realy awsome idea. i have been pondering the zine thing since i read about it above. id like to be involved and get this organized.. all we need is to get a mailbox and have people send us stuff, or get their ermission and print their post from here. i know that alot of distros have gotten 'tired' of the 'usual topics' of zines and many have been asking for body type issues.. anyways contact me if i sound ok. xoxo gemma

Reply from: ZeePp on 10/4/97 at 8:20PM. ednie: i'm TOTALLY into this idea...i saved yer posts n' i'm gonna add it to my zine somewhere...so, i'm gonna ask again...does anyone else on this here post mind if i add their contributions...cuz every single one i read here is amazing...lemme know, k...so far, i'm just adding ednie's...[thanx again!]...so, ednie, gemma...n' anyone else interested...how are we gonna do this?...luv lisa

Reply from: laura on 10/5/97 at 0:11AM. since people keep asking, i'll respond. i don't mind if someone prints/saves/whatever what i said, even though i don't think it's the most lucid piece of writing around.

Reply from: ZeePp on 10/5/97 at 0:18AM. laura, i think what you wrote is amazing...thanx fer giving me permission to use it...if you have any questions or anything, e-mail me...thanx again, luv lisa

Reply from: ednie on 10/6/97 at 6:26PMOH YEAH! I hope you'll send me your zine when it's done Lisa! Gemma: where are you? It sounds like we've got a good group of folks to work on this project. I'm willing to give my address and collect everything (Ednie Garrison, 205 NE Whitman, Apt B, Pullman, WA 99163), but if it's at all possible, it would be really cool to meet at some point ot collectively put the zine together. Would this be possible? I'm in Easter Washington, but I can get to Portland and the I 5 corridor fairly easy. I'm also supposed to be in the Santa Cruz-San Francisco area doing interviews in late Decemeber/early January. Do any of you live within range of these places? If so, we could agree to collect material for the next couple of months and then make some kind of arrangement to meet. What do you think? We could also do an internet zine if that would be easier (although I'm not so good at them--laziness I guess). I'm waiting to hear from you all. BTW, I emailed Donna and asked her to read the thread. Maybe Chainsaw would want to be involved?????? love, ednie

Reply from:katgrrrl on 10/8/97 at 12:13PM. I dont mind if anyone uses or saves what i wrote even though its dumb!!

Reply from: amy on 10/8/97 at 12:35PM. um, you can use whatever i wrote if you want, although it wasn't very good because i hadn't thought about what to write before i wrote it so it may not make too much sense. anyway, i'd love to help out with anything, so let me know

Reply from: ZeePp on 10/8/97 at 2:42PM. thanx kids, you gals kick some major arse! woo-ha! ednie: heya daaahling...i live in toronto, canada...way way WAY far away...me n' gemma are both neglected canadians [haha!]...gemma's in bc [c'est correct? hope ya don't mind me speaking fer ya]...anywhooo, i'll DEFINATELY send ya a copy of my zine when it's all ready to ship out...[hopefully soon]...i'm gonna leave my address here just in case anyone wants to send any contributions [anything at all, ads, whatever!] fer my zine, k...it's Lisa Fabbro/127 Chipmunk Cres [yes, chipmunk]/Brampton, Ontario/L6R 1B7/Canada...smooches, luv lisa

Reply from:laura on 10/10/97 at 6:57AM. i had an odd experience the other night. i was at my sexual assualt worker training class and we were doing this exercise in which you had to describe your feelings. we were given a list of feelings (jealousy, anger, sadness, joy, etc) and told to write down what they feel like to us, as opposed to what they made us do. i didn't think it was a big deal until i found that i projected some of the feelings back onto myself and made them reflections of my body. when i described jealousy, i said it made me feel fat, sick to my stomach, self doubting, longing for what i don't have. confusion was agitated, wanting to leave, lost, inadequate, insufficient, stupid. the feelings ended up being reflections on/of myself and my self-image as opposed to being genuinely rooted in themselves or in response to the situation which created the feelings in the first place. i'd never considered my emotions in this way before. i never fully realized, until this exercise, how my body image truly does pervade every corner of my existence. it all leaves me feeling rather ill.

Reply from: fontanelle on 10/10/97 at 7:55AM. every song story poem letter i have written in the past month has had the overall theme of one's body betraying his/herself, and now i read this for the first time, and i don't know howe i feel right now (i never do), but thank you all for replying to this...eating disorders aren't just a problem for girls...i too am a compulsive overeater, and (this one is hard to say, but everyone is being honest here) an occasional bulemic...the psychologist i went to for the first problem said i was just imagining it and that all i needed was exercise...i haven't told anyone (but you all) about the second (god look at me...i'm shaking like a leaf and i can't even write it twice)...i also have experienced a huge drop in self esteem since moving back to the city...funny...here everyone looks at you like yr a freak...in the small town i was going to college, the freakish stares were friendly at least...here if i see a girl in a deserted hallway and say hi.,..she grabs her purse and walks a little bit faster...it all makes me feel like a fat thug, and my mother's constant dieting doesn't help...i'm begining to hate my body, and i know it's wrong...i am far from lookist, and in fact (although i am loath to admit it) am more attraced to boys and girls who are somewhat large...not that that matters, but i can't conceive of anyone being that way and i'm really depressed and rambling, so i'll try to write here when i get more worked out in my head

Reply from: ednie on 10/10/97 at 8:47PM. I find it interesting that so many of us on this list have to apologize for what we wrote or to describe it as not good. I found everyone's posts to be powerful and beautiful. You know, I'm teaching english writing classes right now and one of the things I've come to realize is that writing is a very personal act. When we write we put ourselves on paper, we expose ourselves (even when we think we're writing something boring like a research paper). I'm learning that when I ask students to work in groups reading each other's work that I have to first prepare them for the feelings of vulnerability they will experience, and to let them know that we all experience it and therefore it is absolutely important that we respect each other's writing like we respect each other's bodies. So, I think my point is precisely that--everyone on this thread has put their bodies on the line (in a manner of speaking) by responding to the issues, pain, and fear exposed by this conversation. And so it also makes a lot of sense that we then feel compelled to apologize. I've felt it. I have asked a few people to look at this thread (Donna--as I mentioned, my therapist, a close friend, my advisor) and each time it has been really scary, and I mean that in terms of my own exposure, but also because it involves sharing (with those people who are very important in my life) your stories and pain too. I don't want to hurt anyone by doing so, but I do want people to learn from all the powerful things everyone here has been preoccupied with. We've created what my professors have taught me to understand as "teachable moment"--an opportunity to engage and challange ourselves and each other, and in the process increase our knowledge of issues that are central to all our lives. If I ever get to teach a class on body image, I would very much like to use this (and our zine!) to open that class. THat's how important I think it is. So this message started out as a response to those who feel compelled to "apologize" for their writing...conversations are spontaneous and full of fits and starts and blundering around--that's what makes them so amazing. As a conversation, this thread reflects the very best of engaged discussion. I'm incredibly proud of it. What I would like to request is that anyone whoe feels their contribution to this conversation hasn't reflected the best, most thorough, or articulate expression of your thoughts, then PLEASE consider writing something to include in our zine that does accomplish what you feel you haven't in your posts. Why can't we make the zine a hard-copy of this conversation that also extends beyond the confines of the posts that are here? Contribute! Contribute! Contribute! And think about why you apologize. My advisor fobids me to apologize for my writing (which can be down-right frustrating at times), but her reasons are political--girls and women are always apologizing for imposing themselves on the world (as embodied people who aren't male-embodied; for moving into "public" spaces; for speaking; for becoming knowledgeable on subjects that aren't related to motherhood; and so forth). Why do we apologize when we speak from the heart?? Do our hearts not count? with love, ednie

Reply from: Scared on 10/10/97 at 10:24PM. Right before I read this thread, I purged myself. And then I came on here and read this post for the first time, and Im shaking and crying and scared. I've been throwing up on a regular basis for 6 years. Nobody knew but me for a very long time. And then I told my friends, the people who I thought would be there for me when I needed them. They pretended like it never even happened. And I think that because Im fat, they think what I do is okay. None of them talk to me anymore. A few months ago it got really bad and I was throwing up 10 or 15 times a day. I learned to be quiet so that no one in my house would know. But I guess they did. My mom asked me one night when I walked into the living room "Have you been throwing up in the bathroom?" I was caught off guard and denied it. And then my dad walked into the room and said "I wish you'd teach me how to throw up. I cant do it. Ive tried and I just cant." And he was serious.I cant tell you what that did to me. It scared me and it made me angry and it made me wanna run away and it made me wanna die. But I stopped for a few months. I dont know why. Maybe it was because of what happened, maybe it was because I met someone around that time and I was happy for the first time in a long time again. I started purging myself because I wanted to be thin. I wanted people to love me for who I am as a person, not hate me for what I look like to them. Now, its a different story. When I walk into a stall with the intent of throwing up, I rarely think of my body at all. Its something I do when I dont know what to do anymore. Like when I lost my job or my girlfriend or my sanity, thats when I do it. And the more I eat beforehand, the more that comes up, the easier it comes, the better I feel. It takes me away from my world for awhile. I feel so in control when Im shoving my fingers down my throat. I forget that time I was walking down the street with my girlfriend holding hands and we turned the corner to see a big crowd of people there, and she let go of my hand because she was ashamed to be seen with a fat girl. I forget that this month is the anniversary of my friends death. I forget this morning when I was walking down the street and that man Ive never seen before called me names. I forget that I hate where I am. I forget that I feel so fucking alone I wanna die. I forget that Im feeling at all. All that matters is the purge. Reading all of your posts made me feel better for a second. But I kinda got the feeling that all this talk will be gone and we'll try to pretend like it never happened. We need to talk to each other about this. Not just on a message board, but in real life too. And I cant even put my name on this so I dont know how Im gonna do that. :( I hate that. I hate thinking that if I put my name, everytime anyone talked to me here from now on, they would have a sense of pity in their words. And that makes me feel more alone than ever. But I need to know that at least people know what Im going through. And I know that you all need that too. My email address is real, so you can write me and ask questions or tell me how your day was or tell me how much youre hurting or anything you want or need to say. I dont know what else to say except that. *sigh*

Reply from: Fembot on 10/13/97 at 9:39AM. Anyone ever read Nomy Lamm's zine "I'm So Fucking Beautiful"? Or pick up a copy of "Fat Girl"? Both are amazing.

Reply from: ZeePp on 10/13/97 at 10:18AMright on!yeah!here's the Fat Girl page-ola...check it out sometime...

Reply from: gemma on 10/13/97 at 11:05AM. ednie- ok.. im in bc, canada... i live about five ours from portland, and crossing the border is a definit no no with my dad.. hmmm... im working on something though :)

Reply from: black sweater on 10/13/97 at 2:21PM. Scared- Thank you so much for your honesty! You are wonderful. I totally identified with everything you said. I'm too scared to put my name up here, but I just wanted you to know that you ARE NOT alone AT ALL. I have been throwing up all night for at least a week-- before that I wd have one or two days where I wdn't, but in general it has been a problem for the past 6 months or so. I used to just purge thru excessive exercise. I totally know how you feel. Please know that I love you and am here and maybe I will e-mail you someday but for right now I only feel brave enough to say this here. I am so sorry about your girlfriend dropping your hand- that is awful. I know it doesn't matter, but that's all her own insecurity about her own self-- this culture hates "fat" and hates "fat people" and it affects us more than anyone realizes. You are beautiful, please remember you were not put on this earth to shape your body into something weird, you do not exist to eata whole bunch and then throw it up-- or at least i can speak for myself. I can't believe that with all the stars and everything all the things that are beyond my comprehension or belief, the fact that each star is a sun I mean and oceans- how big is that stuff, its amazing!!_-- with all of that motion and earth, we are part of this, we are, and I am here to do something, what it is I do not know, but it is not to stick my head in a toilet. it is not to despise my body and make it some special way I think it should be-- that can't be all Im here for. My dad started putting me on diets when I was like 5 years old, and I always thought I had to live in the terror of food and body shit forver- that it was just my destination in life. But I don't have to!! That is not my mission! It is the force of a disease that wants to destroy me, but it is NOT me! Me is inside, beyond that, even where I cannot see or know or touch or feel it, me is hiding in fear maybe (?) or at least I don't know me to the fullest extent that I cd, because I have been hiding in eating disorders quite literally my entire life. And boy does it suck. I felt icky abt my body when I was way little, and always thought I was fat-- and it has nothing to do with what I actually look like. Yeah there's like weight gain that makes me feel HORRIFIED, but I also know that there's an ickiness I feel about my body no matter what I weigh. BUT WHAT I AM TRYING To say is that *we are here for something more, we don't have to know what that is, but I truly believe we are*. There is something that amde you post to that message board, and it wasn't your eating disorder. You are not what you eat, you are not what you puke, you are not what number of sit-ups you did today. thank god that there is something that brought me the music I love, that brought me the people i have met that changed my life, that brought me guitar. thank god for that. b/c if it was all up to me, i wd have died a long time ago. whew. this is intense. this whole thread, everything. its motherfucking intense. even more so that we have these long-ass threads constantly running thru our individual minds, y know, thinking abt this as we move thru our day. _My So Called Life_ wouda been so much better if Claire Danes had been bulimic. :) love, girl in black sweater.