title: what I cant stand about the gay community

Written by: a str8 person on 4/10/98 at 2:23PM. I have absolutley nothing against the gay community and they have never been anything but nice and wonderful to me but I was just wondering why SOME of them feel the need to through it in everyones face that they're gay...Like why do they have marchs for Gay pride? That's like saying I prefer red over blue so I'm gonna have a march and tell that to everyone. It makes no sence to me and it is really annoying. Why do they do this? please respond. Replies:

Reply from: kris on 4/10/98 at 2:32PM. ok.... are you joking? i mean come on..... if not, ok- the reason gay pride exists is because in the spectrum of "mainstream," gay people are against the norm. in 30 states, gays are not protected under title 9. this means we can be refused housing, public service, and work- simply because of our sexual orientation. separate from plain legalstuff- i dont know about your neighborhood, but mine was pretty homophobic (not to mention sexistt, rasist,....) to the point where i felt unsafe just because i was a dyke. shouting out gay pride gives us a voice in a society where we a alsmost silent. and if that was a joke message i totally fell for it. im such a tool. oh well.

Reply from: a str8 person on 4/10/98 at 2:48PM. No it wasn't a joke...Gay pride and gay rights are 2 seperate things...Sure it's stupid to deny anyone anything based on there sexual preference but gay pride means being proud that your gay...I'm straight but I wouldn't start a rally protesting "i'm straight and I'm gonna make sure you know it and I'm gonna through it in your face and be all annoying about it"

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/10/98 at 2:54PM. Your heterosexuality is obviously a large factor in your life--so why can't our homosexuality be a large part of ours? You're not better than us, and in fact, your closed mind makes you inferior. So, shut the fuck up. We're proud to be queer, and there's nothing you can do about it...so just accept it. Expressing what is natural to us is NOT going against the norm. It's an attempt to gain respect. Living in a homophobic society has taught me to supress my anger, isolation and fear, and I refuse to do this any longer, because being queer is the best fucking thing in the world.

Reply from: carl on 4/10/98 at 3:04PM. sinbad

Reply from: Larry-bob on 4/10/98 at 3:19PM. Yawn. I was hoping this was going to be a message from a queer about why they can't stand gay people.

Reply from: adam on 4/10/98 at 3:32PM. having pride is important for any group who has been opressed. if black people weren't proud and loud w/ their pride, they could be opressed more easily and told they are "wrong" as women and queers and any minority so often are. so being loud and proud about yr sexualtiy (or anything) is a way to make yrself proud and let people know it, instead of being ashamed and let people hurt you for it. xx adam

Reply from: Dykey on 4/10/98 at 4:12PM. OMG!!!! The pride march is our way of coming together as a community! It says that YES we are gay and NO we arn't going to put up with harassment! We can completly be ourselves, and not have to worry about being harassed. It is our chance to to be proud of who we are. We show the world that we are through putting up with harassment. African-Americans used to rally together and march. It was called the "freedom march" By marching they took a stand for hat they believed in. And by doing so they ended the harassment in voting! They would get beat up, shot, and tortured for trying to vote, even though it was legal! It was only 50 years ago...and look how far they have come since then?? Sure there is still discrimination, but there will always discrimination in the world. But they can vote now, without having to worry for the saftey of their familys and their lives. By the gay community marching, we are making a stand against the entire world! WE WILL NOT LIVE IN THE CDLOSET ANY MORE!!!! And we owe it all to the brave gays, lesbians, and drag queens at stonewall in NY who mad the first monumental stand againt harassment by the police and fought back!! WE ARE HERE, WE ARE QUEER, AND WE ARE HERE TO STAY!!

Reply from: Olivia on 4/10/98 at 4:19PM. This is totally shocking to me. I am a 19 year old lesbian woman who can't go outside and hold my girlfriend's hand because we may be harassed for it. And you are wondering why we are so verbal about who we are and demand we be respected and acknowledged for it then take a look at how we all are raised. I was raised to be a heterosexual woman in a heterosexual society, and I have to redefine all these norms to fit into my life as I know it now. So, you wonder why I feel that it is important that people know I'm gay? I tell people because being lesbian is a part of who I am, not something that I'm not going to tell you because I don't want you to think that I'm coming on to you! Take a look at your stereotypes, and realize that one gay person that you may have in your collection of people you know is not going to represent all gay people in the world. Get a life, get a reality check, and realize that we have been silent and denied a voice for thousands of years. This is the time that we take voice, speak out and have life as we want to live it. It is time that we take our voices and yell, our lives are too short to live in secret.

Reply from: taylor k on 4/10/98 at 6:49PM. grrr....get this straight....straights don't need to hold pride marches because society teaches us to be proud about ourselves, we aren't made to feel horrible about who we are, we aren't oppressed.....pride is something that manifests from oppression....society tells gay people that they are perverts who are all going to go to hell....if someone told me the same thing about myself I would scream like hell about who I am, I would openly cry out loud about who I am and be damn proud of it. Claiming that being proud about being gay is like being proud about liking the color red over the color blue is stupid. It will be a great day certainly when sexual preference means just about as much to society and the govt as what your favorite color is, but right now its not. Will you lose your job for liking the color red? Will you not be able to marry the person you love because your favorite color is red? And when you say, "I have no problem with gay people," and then rant on about how much you hate gay pride marches, you obviously DO have a problem with gay people. While I will never know the prejudice that gay people face the least I can do is try to understand it, appreciate it, and support it since we're all human...

Reply from: Beckles on 4/10/98 at 7:01PM. Right on. I think a lot of people need to realize, too... that homosexuality isn't just about sex. There's so many ignorant people who -when they find out I am queer- freak out and start saying stuff like "Ooh I'd like to watch that" or whatever. Honestly, I have never even had sex... with either gender for that matter. Does that mean I am not homosexual? Uh uh. Gay pride doesn't mean marching around going "I like to have sex with people of the same gender as me." It's a lot more than that. It's just about respecting yourself for who you are and getting respect from everyone else. And that first post just goes to show there's a long way to go but we're getting there.

Reply from: a str8 person on 4/10/98 at 9:24PM. well maybe if you stopped throughing it in everyone's face you would not HAVE any harrassment to put up with. My heterosexuality doesn't make me close minded...if I were close minded would I really come to Chainsaw Records (a record company that specialises in all girl and or all queer bands). No. Obviously you people are so close minded you cannot except my opinion that you can't even respond to this without insults. I simply said what I have experienced and you people were so immature about everything. I obviously was wrong to think that you people were open minded enough for me to express my opinion and that you people were mature enough to handle this post. You people have said that you have to have pride because you need to fight to have your voices heard and that you were tired at the descrimination and harrassment...well I was obviously descriminated and insulted here...So in conclusion I would just like to say that, for no other reason but the lack of maturity here, YOU SUCK.

Reply from: KF on 4/10/98 at 9:48PM. oh oh yes str8 person, centuries of discrimination is equal to being slammed on a computer messege board! how right you are! please.. and you know, the reason that the people who responded here said shit about you being close minded and the like, is because you are. You obviously are homophobic if you cannot deal with queers speaking out about their oppresion and being who they are. Now this flaunting.. lemme just ask you this.... do you see how much heterosexuality is promoted in this society? Do you see how much heteros FLAUNT their lifestyle? Do you? Because I'm thinking you don't. queer pride is so fucking important, because everyday in all kinds of ways, subliminaly and not, we are told that being queer is wrong. And just because you might listen to chainsaw bands doesn't mean you aren't biggoted, or don't have fucked up ideas about queer people. LIstening to Team Dresch doesn't suddenly make you immune from homophobia. And the people who responded to this post were far from immature.. you are the immature one.. by responding so negatively, you have thwarted any kind of open peaceful discussion that could be had, and frankly, I just can't help but wanna puke when I see another heterosexual saying "I dont have a problem with gay people, but why do they have to flaunt it?" oh and in responce to your statement about flaunting leading to harassment, when has silence ever become acceptance? All I read in your words is insecurity..

Reply from: kris on 4/10/98 at 9:51PM. im really sorry that you didnt actually take the time to read what was said. yes, insults are stupid- but step back and take a look at the concrete facts that were handed to you. and step back and read what you wrote. how would that sound if it were coming from a preacher or a teacher or a parent. wouldnt it sound a bit bigotted? i guess im just really sorry that you coulnt get anything positive out of the discussion. just please, dont use this as a reason to disrespect the community. thanks for your opinion. hope to see you as an ally at the next pride march.

Reply from: the.carly.crusher on 4/10/98 at 10:38PM. bravo carly!!!!!!

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/10/98 at 11:05PM. "Heterosexuality is not normal, just common"

Reply from: Tracey on 4/10/98 at 11:11PM. carly was right on in what she said to you... you haven't the slightest idea of what it is like to live in a society in which you are constanly told that you are an abomination... that your life... yes life not lifestyle... that your views... that the person you love is insignificant... and that if you talk about it... that if you accept who you are... that if you're happy with it... then you are flaunting it... come on... and as for your statement of... " well maybe if you stopped throughing it in everyone's face you would not HAVE any harrassment to put up with." what the hell? do you really realize what you are saying? i don't think i THROW my homosexuality in anyone's face... and if participating in a gay march is flaunting it then i guess you should have a problem with the irish and their st. patricks day parades... i mean come on... why do they have to THROW it in everyone's face that they're irish? what about african americans? are they THROWING their blackness in your faces when they take pride and are happy about being who they are? see your statements really bother me because they are so very bigoted... in fact what you had to say in your very first statement is a reminder of something i saw on t.v. muhammad ali was on a show that was filmed in the sixties... and a white woman stood up and said... "i don't have a problem with blacks... but why do they have to be so vocal about their blackness?" sound at all bigoted to you? this is what you said... "I have absolutley nothing against the gay community and they have never been anything but nice and wonderful to me but I was just wondering why SOME of them feel the need to through it in everyones face that they're gay..." sound familiar? you basically said the same thing as that woman in the sixties... the truth of the matter is... everyday we wake up in a society that doesn't let us forget that it's a heterosexual one and that we are the odd ones out... and when you compile all the heterosexuals who talk about show affection towards their boyfriends/girlfriends/husbands/wives it becomes a huge statement of heterosexuality... one that far out matches the one day that queers get to shout it out to the world... so i don't really think it's as in your face as heterosexuality is to us... i think you need to take a better look at the society around you and i think you need to take a better look at yourself before you can honestly tell me that homosexuals, because of their pride marches, are throwing anything in your face about being queer... and don't call people immature when you post something that is more than slightly bigoted and they respond with outrage... it's a natural reaction to ignorance and i call it ignorance because bigots are ignorant... and maybe you aren't but what you said and what you've posted are... tracey

Reply from: dirk on 4/10/98 at 11:20PM. that post was just fuckin insensitve to begin with. its pretty obvious the majority of ppl on this chat are gay, so dont piss on them and not expect some back moron.jesus fuckin christ, go back to aol

Reply from: karts on 4/11/98 at 6:23AM. Hmm..as for flaunting, I think a str8 person flaunted heterosexuality enough just by using that name..

Reply from: a str8 person on 4/11/98 at 8:41AM. KF: You have not had to deal with opression for centurys. you have not been alive for century's. Gay people in the past have had to deal with it, and you may or may not have to deal with it now. I cant stand it when people say "we have been oppressed for centurys" because they havn't...like when president Clinton suggested that we publicly appoligize for slavery and that we grant retribution to people who are prooven descendants of slaves. Well why should any of us appoligize for something none of us have ever done and appoligize for slavery to peole who have never been slaves. So you cannot say you have been descriminated against for centurys...let the gay people of the past worry about that...You people have all completely missed my point. If you people would stop making it an issue than it wouldn't be. And as for being homophobic my best friend IS gay and they agree whole heartedley with me.

Reply from: Beckles on 4/11/98 at 9:38AM. Why do you keep saying "You people"? Do you think we're some army of homosexuals whose goal is to piss you off? Don't flatter yourself, kid. Homosexuality isn't something created just to have something to march around about. Why are you so defensive? A lot of good points have been brought up here. And instead of acknowledging many of them, you keep reassuring yourself by saying you're not homophobic. I'm not convinced.

Reply from: Somebody more open-minded on 4/11/98 at 11:06AM. First of all, str8 person, the fucking word is "throw", not "through" if you're going to be a moron, at least learn how to spell correctly. So you're uncomfortable with gay pride marches? You don't understand why they have them? Why do they have St. Patricks day parades? Why do they have Martin Luther King Jr. parades? Why do they have Thanksgiving and Christmas parades? Quit being such a fucking idiot and deal with it.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/11/98 at 11:09AM. Godammit, why are some of the stupidest fucking people also the worst at spelling? Get off your mother's AOL account and go eat your graham crackers, you fucking "str8 person" infantile piece of shit.

Reply from: zoe wolverine on 4/11/98 at 11:26AM. str8 - Maybe you don't understand why we need gay/queer pride because you haven't been kicked out of your house, hated, spit on, beaten up, yelled at, gawked at, whispered about, laughed at, harassed, and generally alienated in every way for being straight. - Z

Reply from: we're here we're queer on 4/11/98 at 1:07PM. heterosexuality is not normal, just common

Reply from: taylor k on 4/11/98 at 1:24PM. why shouldn't gay people be allowed to flaunt who they are? Why should ANYONE hide themselves? That is complete bullshit. And while who a person has sex with shouldn't be an issue, assholes in this world keeping MAKING IT AN ISSUE and that's why things like gay pride exist, to let people know that they're exactly the same as everyone else, they are teachers, lawyers, doctors etc. and aren't going anywhere....didn't we go over this months ago already?

Reply from: kapu on 4/11/98 at 2:17PM. somebody more openminded- thanks fur the spelling correction. :) it was starting to annoy the hell outta me. hehe..

Reply from: KF on 4/11/98 at 2:21PM. str8 person: Did I ever fucking say I'd been oppressed for centurieS? I don't think so. I said people like me(you people) had been. And you are so fucking ignorant for thinking that if we stop talkign about our sexuality and about WHO WE ARE that oppresion is going to go away. And, again, just becuase your best friend is gay, doesn't mean your aren't homophobic. Plenty of homophobes have gay friends. Homophobia extends beyond just not wanting to be around queer people, or thinking they are wrong. And I think it's pretty interesting that you side stepped and didn't respond to anything Tracey said, because I think she made some awesome points, and that her whole post was very well said. Instead, you decide to nitpick at me for little things that were easy for you to make your ignorant points back on..I hate fucking wasting my time, responding to this shit, but I had to say this.

Reply from: carl (member of the geek nation) on 4/11/98 at 2:47PM. instead of saying someone is gay or straight, why can't we just say, hey this person is in love. i don't know. you love who love. whether you love women, men, cats, dogs, music, silence or whatever. i guess its like, if you can find that one thing that makes ya happy, then more power to ya. rock on!

Reply from: a str8 person on 4/11/98 at 4:57PM. I understand some of your opinions and see were your coming from so why can't you understand mine? If you dont agree with it dont get all pissed just say why...and what does homophobia extend to please tell me.

Reply from: straight on 4/11/98 at 5:03PM. str8 person- dont even try, they cant handle your opinons. Its not even worth it to get your point across, they wont take it.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/11/98 at 6:11PM. did anyone think that anything intelligent was going to come from this post?

Reply from: a str8 person on 4/11/98 at 6:24PM. i hoped it would have generated intellegent conversation

Reply from: a QUEER person on 4/11/98 at 6:32PM. i think it's pretty patronizing to say that just because you have a gay friend, that makes you non-phobic. Like you're being some kind of fucking saint by befriending a gay person when you're Mr. Str8 Privilege. Besides, half the time, I've noticed that people who say, "oh, but i have a friend who's gay," don't really have any gay friends, they're just saying that so they don't look like a total asshole. Well, it didn't work for you this time!

Reply from: str8 person's bestfriend on 4/11/98 at 8:29PM. I am his best friend...and I agree with a lot of what he says..

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/11/98 at 8:36PM. *PUKE*... yeah, this fucking post makes me sick... yummy, I love bigots... ummm ummm good.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/11/98 at 8:41PM. this is funny....let's talk about evolution here....people still can't fucking talk about their differences intelligently...neither side is willing to budge..and you both start looking like asses....

Reply from: taylor k on 4/11/98 at 9:21PM. yeah but the thing is hear is that these differences are insulting to a majority of the people who come on to this board.....there's having a difference of opinion and then there's expressing an opinion that degrades about 95% of the people yr expressing it to....and for cripes sakes don't hide behind the safety of "this is my opinion why can't you respect it" because its just fucking hypocritical. Why can't you respect those who feel the need to express their pride in being gay? Why can't you respect that difference and let it be?

Reply from: a very pissed off an a.k.a. Olivia on 4/11/98 at 9:37PM. Has anyone noticed that when someone gets angry they just scream louder and don't listen to anyone else? Even with someone having the backing of their gay best friend, who obviously has spent more time with you, st8 person, you need to be really clear about the idea of you trying to convey. Please restate why and what you are asking before you try to put down anyone else. What frightens me is what KF and Tracy and myslef have been saying is very true, this is the reality of people who are gay. I was at a shopping mall today, and I was very uncomfortable. All over the mall were women in make up and going through these eloborate mating rituals that are all supported by our heterosexual society. Holding hands, dating, all that stuff. And if I walked into that mall with my hands on my girlfriend's waist, what do you think the reaction would have been? Overt shock? No! But sly side glances, and the quick walking around us to avoid having contact with the lesbians? Mothers walking the other way to hide their children from the sight of two women in love? You don't believe that we face homophobia in every aspect of our lives. You can't see it because you are raised to accept it, praise it and become a part of it. All the things I just mentioned on what could have happened in the mall today have happened to me before. You think that by having one gay best friend that you can't understand why we must all be very talkative about who we are. Its a part of who I am, It is the life I have choosed because I have integrity and have been honest to all who know me that I'm lesbian because I don't want to deny them a piece of my person. I want to be honest, and I am being very honest here I think by giving you some really concrete personal experiences on how in little ways I have faced homophopia in little places where our societial expectaions are played out. And I haven't even started on the other experiences I've had, personally because I think that if you can't acnowledge why it is necessary to speak out and be honest about being gay - and this includes gay pride marches - I don't need to waste my time by having you read my personal experiences. I really hope that you've bothered to read with a open mind what these posts have been trying to say. I don't want to repeat what everyone has said - but I know one thing for sure. If you don't know by now why we gay people have pride marches, don't ask again. Its like asking someone if they can walk if their paralized from the neck down - a ludicrus question that you already know the answer too. More people here have given you that anwser than you will ever get in real life, even from your best friend. I hope you've been paying attention. go check out www.njp.com for more information on gay oppression, why we have gay pride marches, and all those burning little questions whose answer's are very important to us here gay people.

Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 4/11/98 at 9:48PM. a str8 person = str8 person's bestfriend = straight are all the same person.

Reply from: bigendered byke on 4/11/98 at 10:15PM. There's another question - why is the stuff we do in our queer pride parades so offensive to people? "Eeew, they're having a parade! they're waving banners and dressing up weird! this is sooo fucked up! look! they're having FUN!!" Is it because the news stations pick the strangest things they can find and only show you those parts of the parade? is it some kind of special gag reflex? Also, the idea that "maybe if we didn't throw it in everyone's faces so much we wouldn't get harassed so much" is really fucked up. That's blaming us for our oppression. Lesbian, gay, bi, and trans people have been held back from marrying, beat up in the streets, and jailed and given violent shock treatments for being queer, LONG before we developed any kind of subculture or separate queer-people's-identity. The reason people are queerphobic assholes isn't because they are reacting to someone with extra piercings or a "2QT2BSTR8" tshirt or a pair of women kissing on the sidewalk, it's because the very idea that you can love men and still be a man, or love women and still be a woman, or love both genders or even CHANGE your gender, and still be a valid person, that idea totally fucks them up. If THAT'S true, then it totally destroys their definition of their own gender, and removes the foundation they built their self-image upon, and they can't let that happen. ANYthing could happen in a world where these things are possible! Better start crushing it fast!

back