title: DEAD whores
Written by: anonymous on 6/10/98 at 5:51PM.
Does anyone else notice this disturbing trend in the movies and television? I can think of dozens of movies or episodes on television where the plot revolves around a murdered prostitute, most of them action films or thrillers aimed at men. I was also watching a talk show the other day where the guests made jokes about waking up and finding a dead hooker in your bed. is this just "entertainment" that we shouldn't take too seriously? Or is it a by-product of men percieving sex workers as a commodity and objects? Isn't this sending a message out that if you are a slut by trade, you are expendable and that your life isn't worth as much?
Replies:
Reply from: Brian Crabtree on 6/10/98 at 9:18PM. One in eight hollywood movies contains a rape scene. That's because in a culture of eroticized violence against women, it fucking sells. It has to do with men pervieving *women* as objects, expendable.
No, I don't think anyone could take it seriously enough. I was watching a newsy-kindof show the other night, about all the tobacco use in movies that isn't realistic. Like James Bond smoking 200+ cigarettes in an hour and a half, Gene Hackman smoking on a nuclear submarine... The journalist was talking to the heads of the major movie production companies (you can count them on one hand), asking them why they were glamorizing smoking, asking them to take measures against it and to take responsibility for their actions. One of them in particular was very cooperative.
So I'm thinking, isn't epidemic violence against women a more important public health issue than self-inflicted lung cancer? I wonder why the story wasn't about that instead. I wonder what we could do about writing to producers of television shows and feature films... I wonder what they guy would have said if she has asked him to eliminate unnecessary violence against women from his films. Hmmm.
Reply from: Maude on 6/10/98 at 9:27PM. Around 1986 or so, when I was living in San Diego, there were 42 *unsolved* rape-murders of women over a 2 year period, all of which were related in method. Overwhelming evidence led to a police coverup, and many speculate *involvement*. It was so creepy. The reason I bring this up here is that the media played it off as a bunch of whores getting murdered--and indeed, several of the women were whores. However, several weren't, and this aspect was ignored by the media, who pounced on the Dead Whore Theme and contributed to everyone's couldn't-give-a-shit-because-what's-a-whore worth and oh-I-don't-have-to-worry-cuz-I'm-not-a-whore negligence. 42! And not given nearly the attention of other 80s era serial killers. There was an excellent art installation project documenting this, and the individual deaths, and the damning evidence against the police--but I've become a moron and forgotten the name. Similarly, I've forgotten the name of a great late-80s postmod art book that documented this art installatoin. Pheh. So if anyone happens to remember the name of this, please let me know, as I'd like to uncover it again. Thanks.
Reply from: annie on 6/11/98 at 3:57AM. same thing happened up near pinole where my boy lives . . . a few guys were taking prostitutes and beating the shit out of them before they threw their mangled still alive bodies over the big bridge up there . . . i dont think any more than 7 got killed . . . but thats seven too many.
Reply from: kate cooties on 6/11/98 at 5:46AM. the fact is, it's a disturbing trend of art imitating life -- and furthering the attitude where the average joe & jane can voyeuristically watch violence taking place 'randomly' but not have to live in fear for him/herself.
the fact is, as long as prostitution has been considered a sin, there have been lines drawn between what's acceptable to do to a whore and what's acceptable to do to an 'innocent' woman.
EVERY time that there has been a crackdown on prostitution, we've seen the emergence of a serial killer. there was a crackdown in Whitechapel just prior to Jack the Ripper making an appearance. and prior to the Yorkshire Ripper, The Green River Killer, The Night Stalker, The Southside Slayer, The Hillside Strangler -- all of these were murderers who killed (that we know of) at least half a dozen people, and were ignored because they always started on whores. Likewise, we know Ted Bundy killed a couple college co-eds, but he claims to have killed dozens of whores as well. i don't doubt it.
the police have never been interested in protecting 'bad' women, sex-workers being the primary example of women gone bad. here's where we enter into more interesting territory. whores are often queer, and there is a subsegment of the queer community (often exacerbated because of the alcohol & drug abuse which plagues our community, as fellow fags & dykes try to drown out sorrows and abuses in chemicals... but this is another post) which is given towards prostitution in the street sense of the term, arguably the most dangerous type of sex work because of the street walking/hitch hiking, transient nature. this was going on in the hampton roads area of Virginia (where i live) since 1986. well, i'm sure it was going on well before then, but it was in 1986 that a serial killer emerged here. Men, usually cocained addicts who frequented gay bars & hitch hiked frequently, started disappearing. There were obvious links between the murders. dozens were killed, found naked in ditches in rural areas of chesapeake and portsmouth, and the police forces of this area took YEARS before they started working together under suspicion of a serial killer, and the murders went without serious investigation until just 1997! more than a decade after they started. Several times, local jurisdictions turned down the FBI's requests to investigate, and denied that we had a serial killer on the loose.
currently, there is a man in the court system on suspicion of *one* of those murders. he'll probably never be brought to charges on all of the others. because the police are not interested in protecting communities of 'bad' people -- sexual outlaws like whores and queers or drug users & abusers.
Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 6/11/98 at 6:30AM. as concering myself as some sort of parapyschology/extremist/serial killer buff, i'd like to point out that most serial killers aren't sane.(bad word choice) There is research that serial killers who attack sex workers (male or female) have been extremely abused in their own life. I wish i had a couple of my books here so i could Brian "The Bookworm" Crabtree WWF yr asses...but i do remember that One serial killer of Native American Women in the minneapolis area was forced to sleep in his mom's bed until he was 15. She also dressed him in his older sister's clothes because she did not have money for new clothes. Don't get me wrong, I AM CERTAINLY NOT DEFEND ATTACKS ON ANYONE. But there is more to the story than a guy watching 4 rooms then stuffing his own bed that night. Attacks against sex workers and other "lost people" have been going on for many many many more years than the production of film. I do agree that film definately displays more attacks on sex workers than they should, but movies are a business and the devil upstairs needs to keep his mercedes so he will make a movie that will grab yr attention. And dead whores does grab yr attention...that's why this post is here.
Reply from: numbers rule on 6/11/98 at 6:44AM. One in 8 hollywood movies contains a rape scene. Fun with math time. The Children and Comedy Sections at hollywood update contain 1000 Movies (dated 1970 - 98) The Action - Drama - Mystery Section contains 1500 Movies So we are dealing with 2500 movies. The probability of a childrens/comedy movie containing a rape scene is low, but for arguements sake there is one rape sence for every 25 movies..so 40 movie (seems high?...we are talking Land before time and shit) to hold that 12% the drama/action/mystery must contain 80 more per 1000 (to balance with the childrens section) so 120 per 1500 as my examle...12% of 1500 is 180 movies, add the 120 to balance the curve...so the drama/action/mystery 300 of 1500 movies contain so One in Five d/a/m movies contain a rape scene...now if we added foriegn films/ classsic/ and horror...i wonder how the that % would raise or lower. Brian? where did you get that wonderful statistic.
Reply from: kate cooties on 6/11/98 at 2:35PM. to the number cruncher, although i also agree with you that statistics can be very misleading (refer to Samuel Clemens' quote: "There are three types of lies. Lies. Damn Lies. And statistics."), the fact is, even children's movies and television aren't immune to showing violence against women as humorous entertainment.
check the implied rape in the old School House Rock episode about the constitution of the united states. when i was in high school, my government class watched this as a 'treat' for our good test scores... and it totally sickened me. the animation for the sequence on "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" was revolting. Life and Liberty were portrayed by old white-wigged dandies leaning over a parchment and signing it. Pursuit of Happiness was portrayed by one of their fellow white-wigged gents chasing a scullery maid around the room. She was screaming, flailing her arms and trying to escape as the room full of founding fathers laughed at their groping, skirt-chasing brother. THAT was their "pursuit of happiness." She didn't look happy. the scene *implied* a rape. that violence against women was entertaining, and it was a god-given right that men have the option to follow these pursuits which led to their happiness.
this is saturday morning cartoons.
Reply from: Brian Crabtree on 6/11/98 at 3:20PM. Number cruncher... I'm not sure if you did all that math to support my argument or if you were saying that my number is too high... I don't know the source for that; it's something I picked up from a professor I trust very much. The probablility of a comedy containing a rape scene is not as low as you might think. And you might believe that there aren't any rape scenes in children's movies... But there's a lot implied which serves the same ends... like the very clearly implied attempted rape scene in The Next Karate Kid... Foreign films don't count, I said Hollywood movies. As for classics, they're certainly not immune... Remember the scene in Gone With the Wind where Rhett slaps Scarlet, grabs her, carries her kicking and screaming to the bedroom upstairs.... and she's shown smiling and happy the next morning.
If the average for drama/action/mystery is too low for you... Try factoring in horror movies. There are tape boxes for horror flicks on the shelves at hastings and blockbuster that boast about how many violent rapes they contain.
Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 6/13/98 at 6:09PM. top
Reply from: number cruncher on 6/16/98 at 7:43AM. BRIAN: i was backing up yr story, but i still wonder about the proof of the stat. Kate: if skirt chasing implies rape, doesn't that desensatizes (sp?) the real act? If i was rape (with penetration) and someone like tammy from the real world claimed rape for skirt chasing i'd be very upset about the dynamic difference between the too.
Reply from: kate cooties on 6/16/98 at 3:08PM. where the hell did the 'real world' cast get brought into this?
i said it IMPLIES rape. what did you think would happen if he caught her? they'd play a game of cards and everything would be hunkey dorey?
that is the implied end result of a powerful man physically chasing around a non-powerful woman who is screaming her fucking head off & is very openly upset. whether we see how it culminates or not isn't the issue... the issue is this is being shown to small children in an 'educational' format, and it's presented as HUMOR. implied rape = hardy harr harr.... oh, i get it now. yeah, that's a fucking laugh riot.
Reply from: numbers rule on 6/16/98 at 3:32PM. you see kate...your hostile approach is the reason you have no friends. how about you read my question this time and answer it...instead of making up my question, and answering the one you'd like. I wish i knew html, cause i'd argue with you quote by quote
Reply from: anonymous on 6/16/98 at 3:44PM. Ignore the last post, Kate; I totally agree with you and it really helped in fleshing out my ideas about how the media and pop culture perpetuates misogyny and violence against women.
Reply from: badger on 6/17/98 at 1:48AM. if i cam close to agreeing with anyone in this argument it would be numbers rule(although i hate them personally). brian-pulling bullshit statistics out of your ass brings no amusement or truth to me on this matter. its too easy to say "hollywood movies" and target them as this fascist thing that objectifies rape. you obviuosly dont see a lot of movies and dont know what youre talking about cause i see a ton all kinds all genres, everything.when i see a rape seen, i hardly ever think its sexual to make men get hard ons, and the FEW that i do see, that is the director doing that, not this whole "pro-rape movie system" you blab on and on about. true, women are sexualized in movies all the time, but i do not see rape as the primary vehicle for this. and as far as horror movies, i never see a video jacket "bragging" about how many rapes are in it, and horror fuckin objectifies everything, violence being the main one, and mainstream horror movies like nightmare on elm street, scream, halloween,friday the 13th b barely contain many sexual situations at all, and not rape. plus most slasher horror movies are low budget productions made as a joke in the woods and usually dont play in theatres at all, hardly hollywood i would say.i would recommend a movie that treats the subject of rape seriously, but i seem to be at a loss for any movie that contains a rape scene. for argument's sake, look at kiss the girls, a typical trashy flick involving rape of women, but ashley judd's character is strong and encouraging to women to fight back and defend themselves. evewn john singleton's "higher learning" full of pretentious views about lesbianism, racism and white people even handles kristy swanson's rape with great care and shows the value and workings of a rape support group at a college. randomly i have picked to well known yet shitty hollywodd movies that both deal with rape seriously and the scenes in them are in no way intended to give me a boner, so lrearn what the fuck you are talking about and see some more movies before you accuse something you know JACK FUCKING SHIT about. hollywood has its problems but glorifying rape isnt one of them.
Reply from: An anonymous viewer on 6/17/98 at 5:02AM. Hey Badger: I used to work in a video store and I watched *a lot* of movies as part of the job requirement; I would reccomend that you not watch so many movies since it appears to have turned your brain into mush. As for movies glorifying rape (just off the top of my head) and violence against women: Angel Heart: features a eroticized incest scene where Mickey Rourke kills his daughter after they have sex. Year of the Dragon: yet another Mickey Rourke film, and possibly one of the most racist and sexist movies ever made. He calls an Asian woman a "slanted eyed cunt" among other things and after she slaps him and tells him to leave her apartment, he forciably fucks her. Mute Witness: features a snuff film and is used as a plot twist and to create suspense. There is no real discussion about snuff films in general or violence against women. The Road Warrior: has a rape/murder scene Wes Craven's Last House on the Left: is about two girls who are raped and killed, and the parents come back to kill the rapists Wild at Heart: Lula is sexually assaulted by a stranger who stops by and uses her bathroom, but it's portrayed as something she is sexually aroused by. Blob (the remake): has an attempted date rape scene (the victim turns out to be already dead, though). One of Pedro Aldomovar (sp?) has a rape scene which is played for laughs. It's a foreign film, though. maybe you should rewatch some of those horror movies because violence against women is almost always eroticized, like in the Friday the 13th or Halloween films. If you have sex in a horror film you're almost always going to die. everybody knows that one.
Reply from: Brian Crabtree on 6/17/98 at 5:14AM. I don't know about the movie itself... But the trailer for Kiss the Girls was obviously designed to be sexual. That's why I didn't go see it. But... umm... I'm guessing that the women get saved by men in the end, right? I don't think you're going to convince me that Kiss the Girls is a movie which deals with rape "seriously". But if you think Hollywood treats the subject of rape "with great care," I don't think I'm going to convince you of anything either.
I think the source of our disagreement is how seriously you take rape vs. how seriously I take it.
Reply from: THE REAL NUMBERS RULE on 6/17/98 at 5:51AM. that second post at 3:36 was not me...it was someone else using my nick. This shit pisses me off.
Reply from: THE REAL NUMBERS RULE on 6/17/98 at 5:54AM. that second post at 3:32 was not me...it was someone else using my nick. This shit pisses me off.....sorry
Reply from: Brian Crabtree on 6/17/98 at 5:25PM. Did anyone see Con Air? There's this rapist on the plane who keeps talking about his "bitches", etc... and later after things go to shit and the criminals take over the plane, a female prison guard gets handcuffed to the wall. And the rapist walks over to her and starts talking shit about how he's going to fuck her, and then slams his body into her from behind and pushes her against the wall.... and the director has the actress make this stupid face, with her mouth wide open, and let out a little gasp... her reaction, taken out of context, is indisinguishable from that expected in a "consensual" heterosexual encounter,(as portrayed in many "erotic thrillers") and certainly not what any reasonable person would expect from a person being violently attacked. Too frequently this is how rape is portrayed: a little high-pitched whimper, a gasp, moaning, etc. Whether this is a problem with the way the media portrays rape or the way the media portrays "natural" sexual submission, or both, is hard to determine. What matters is the association.
Reply from: tungjii-luck on 6/17/98 at 7:29PM. i know this isn't a movie .. but my brother showed me an article about the new duke nukem game, and there's this scene in a topless bar where you can kill the strippers. there's an article about it in Wench. nrgh.