The following article ran in three installments in Flagpole magazine. The issues were Sept. 21, Sept. 28, and Oct. 5, 1994. Each installment also featured a photo taken during the interview.
Michael Stipe : Well,
it's a lot louder than the last three records. It's very raw, and, uh,
punk rock. It's kind of in-your-face.
Stipe : We started
in New Orleans, then went to Atlanta, then to Miami, and then to Los Angeles.
Stipe : Yeah. It was
a good time. A lot of things happened, kind of life things happened, while
we were making the record that made it a little more difficult. It was
a very challenging record to make.
Stipe : It's kind
of hard because there's um... you know, you've written a song, and you're
inspired to put it down on tape. But putting it down on tape is not as
easy as it sounds. It's a really involved process - it involves a lot of
people and a lot of machinery, and the people and the machinery don't always
do what you want them to do. Especially if you're experimenting, which
we were doing a lot of. Some of the vocals, for instance, that I recorded,
that are on the album, I sang through a Walkman instead of a microphone.
We plugged a Walkman into the board. It really drastically changed the
way the vocal sounds. So that was an experiment that kind of worked . (Michael
gets up and inspects the tape recorder I'm using.) I always do this, too,
in interviews, make sure the tape's running. Is that one running? That
one's running. Cool. We tried a lot of experiments that didn't work [laughs].
A lot them made it to the record. The last record that we made was almost
all acoustic instruments. This one has one acoustic guitar on one song,
and everything else is electric.
Stipe : It's a big
change for us.
Stipe : Um, there's
no real formula. The band kind of usually comes up withthe music and I
usually come up with the words, but everybody contributes alot to each
song. Sometimes a song will be, like, one person's idea, and if it's a
really fully realized idea, then everyone else will kind of take a backseat
or add little things here and there. Sometimes it takes all four of us
to make something really come together.
Stipe : Yeah, we had
a number of different titles [laughs]. Usually we put a sheet of paper
up on the wall about a month into recording, and everybody starts writing
ideas up there. It's always been a really hard thing for us to pick titles.
We just picked Monster because it was stupid, you know. I mean, there was
no real reason. The same reason we picked R.E.M. It just kind of didn't
mean anything.
Stipe : Um, probably
a combination of the two [laughs].
Stipe : Um... permanently
or temporarily?
Stipe : (Long pause)
Boy, that's a tough one. (Another pause) I don't know. Who would you trade
places with?
Stipe : Leonardo da
Vinci. That'd be cool.
Stipe : Yeah. (Pause)
I can't think of anybody . I mean, there are so many people that I would
love to, like, be them for one day. Just to see what goes through their
heads.
Stipe : Margaret Thatcher
the ex-Prime Minister of the UK. James Dean. George Bush. P. J. Harvey.
I would love to find out what motivates these people. Patti Smith. I'd
love to find out what makes them do the things that they do. Then let you
decide - maybe not.
Stipe : The stupidest
thing I've ever done... I didn't change my name when I became a pop star.
(Chuckles) I should have come up with a fake name.
Stipe : Yeah. C-00
is, although it's based in Athens, it's been kind of moved up to New York.
There's an office up there now. Jim McKay, my partner, is up there now.
He's working on music videos, and a screenplay that he wrote. That's about
it.
Stipe : Yeah.Bunch
of'em.
Stipe : Um, NRDC,
Greenpeace is an obvious one, Citizen's Clearinghouse for Hazardous Waste,
which was started by Lois Gibbs. There's a woman, she was a housewife before
she became an activist, she lived in Love Canal, and was kicked out of
her home when it was discovered that her neighborhood was completely toxic,
and she started this organization, they're very, very grassroots thus far.
And various local organizations and more national ones too.
Stipe : Yeah, I do,
well, number one, I don't think that Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Soundgarden
really sound that much alike any more than when Athens was where the media
were kind of focusing their attention, I didn't really think that Pylon
and the B-52s and R.E.M. sounded much alike. But they talked a lot about
the Athens sound. But I feel like, you know, the whole grunge thing was
a media invention. It just happened to be that there were a lot of bands
making noisy records in Seattle, and they got signed. Most of them were
really talented and really deserved the attention that they got.
Stipe : I think it's
all a myth, yeah. Don't you?
Stipe : The whole
grunge thing was flannel shirts, right? I mean we're talking about Seattle,
Washington, where it's very cold a lot of the time, and a lot of people
there are blue collar workers. Flannel shirts have been around for centuries,
keeping people warm when they were in cold places. T-shirts and shorts
make a little more sense in California and Athens, where it's much warmer.
Stipe : Throw some
names at me.
Stipe : I can tell
you who I've been listening to a lot. Sonic Youth. I'm wearing their T-shirt
[points to t-shirt]. Hole.
Stipe : You do? Yeah, they're great. The last Fugazzi records. A lot of tapes that friends of mine have made for me. A lot of stuff no one's ever heard of. I still love the Utah Saint's record. And, what else have I been listening to... I listen to the Kristen Hirsch record a lot and a new record by D'van Gasparan [sp?] He's an Armenian dudak player. He put out a record some years ago called I Will Not Be Sad In This World. It's an unbelievable, beautiful recording and he just came out a new record - dudak is really haunting... I believe it's a pipe, with a beautiful, haunting, low tones that have a lot of sustain. The music that he composes or that he plays along with is, I think, from Armenian folk music. It's very
beautiful. It's very hypnotic and almost hallucinogenic. It's like really
wild music. Anybody who likes Dead Can Dance should definitely check this
guy out. What've you been
listening to?
Flagpole : I've, uh, Smashing Pumpkins.
Stipe : Great record.
Stipe : Nirvana were
a great band.
Stipe : It's a great
record, isn't it?
Stipe : To a lot of
people R.E.M. would fit into one of those bands. How do you reckon with
that?
Stipe : R.E.M. would
be one of the bands that are 99 percent of the dreck that you have to listen
to and you have to watch on MTV.
Stipe : [laughs] Yeah...
Stipe : I'm glad that
you don't fit R.E.M. into that category, because I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Stipe : No. I'm friends
with just about everybody that we've mentioned [laughs], with the exception
maybe of Mariah Carey. (Laughs) No, but I've got a number of projects that
are coming up that are outside R.E.M. that I'm probably not at liberty
to talk about them yet. It's some pretty exciting stuff.
Stipe : Yeah. A record
that came out when I was 15 and I bought it the day it came out which was
the first Patti Smith record, called Horses, on Arista Records, and that
record to me was revolutionary. It really changed my life. I think in a
positive way...I mean, I became a pop star. I don't know if that's...but
it probably all started with that record. And that's probably a record
that's been overlooked by peoople who weren't around in 1975.
Stipe : Yeah, and
you've also got the Box and BET, if you want to watch other stuff.
Stipe : Yeah. (Laughs.)
Stipe : No [laughs].
My vacation, for me, because I travel so much, is being in Athens. I'm
able to relax more when I'm here than when I'm traveling, because that's
really a very big part of my job, is traveling.
Stipe : At one point I really looked around to see if there was another place that I wanted to move and I had the opportunity because of the band to see the whole country, the whole world, really, and I couldn't find anywhere else that I liked better. It's not really that I'm afraid to move somewhere else or that...it's just that Athens....I wish that everybody who lived in Athens had the opportunity to get away from it for a while to recognize what a unique community we have here. It's really an incredible place.
Stipe : I'm one of
the co-owners of the restaurant. I go eat there but have nothing to do
with it outside of that.
Stipe : The best thing
on the menu? I like juicers, so I go in and get three different kinds of
juice.
Stipe : Um, I became
famous. I'll never understand it. It's kind of something I wanted when
I was like really, really young, like almost every kid wants to be a rock
star or whatever, but I never realized that it would actually happen, and
I didn't ever really push for it to happen. I just got in a band and it
was something to do and a way to avoid having a regular job and I was having
a great time with it. I was like a really big fan of of Jack Kerouac, the
writer. His books profoundly affected me and Peter Buck, and when we went
on the road as a young band it was really like our version of Kerouac's
book On The Road. We were seeing America and getting by, getting by by
the seat of our pants, but having a great time and just traveling around
and meeting some people and having a good time.
Stipe : I like performing.
I have a dysfunctional ego. I think all famous people have some kind of
ego deficency problem or something - not ego deficiency: what would it
be? Some kind of chemical imbalance that causes them to need to be in front
of people performing. So...I mean, obviously, the band hasn't toured in
five years, so it's something that's not necessary to my survival, but
I do like performing, and I love travelling. Sometimes when they're combined
it's a little bit hard. But I'm really looking forward, actually, to touring.
Stipe : Uhmm, New
Zealand is really beautiful, and, uh, New Mexico. And Minneapolis-St. Paul
has always been a really fun place to play.
Stipe : We're going
to the Video Awards just because we've been nominated I think for six different
things.
Stipe : We're not
going to play. There are plenty of other people playing. And I believe
we're playing Saturday Night live on November 12.
Flagpole : Is Monster going to be coming out in a special booklet/package?
Stipe : Yeah, well
last time we put out we put out special packages and they go out to people
that are in the music industry and they go to record stores and you can
buy it if you want to plop down 40 bucks for it or whatever it costs: $85
or $25 or whatever it costs. But it's a special package; it's a limited
edition. And then there's just the regular CD. There was one around here,
Monster. I'll show you what it looks like.
Stipe : I did it with
Chris Bilheimer.
Stipe : I lifted Migraine
Boy from the Flagpole, yes. I'd like to officially thank Flagpole for introducing
me to Greg Fiering and Migraine Boy. I haven't met Greg, but I've talked
to him a lot on the phone. We were actually in San Francisco at the same
time, but I was working on another project and we had a telephone visit
for about two hours. This is an exclusive. I don't think anybody else knows
about Migraine Boy yet...[laughs]
Stipe : In terms of
my job, or just in life?
Stipe : I think change,
probably. I mean ultimately it's the scariest thing, but it's the single
thing that's always going to happen, and it's a good thing that it happens.
Change is always scary. I think I adapt pretty well to it. By birthright
all human beings adapt to a lot of change; we have to. How about you?
Stipe : Wow.
Stipe : Now that it's
said and done I was really insulted by it. I felt like, um, wherever within
Mac Coile supporters that came from I've been an advocate for voter registration
a lot long than Mac Coile had been considering a political position in
Clarke County. I'm on the Board of Directors for Rock the Vote [Michael
is the only singer on the board...] and I spend a lot of time doing voting
rights and voter's registration and I thought it was a very biased, snakey
mean thing to do and not necessary.
Stipe : I knew it
was happening. I wasn't involved in it being written.
Stipe : I feel like
Gwen is the type of person who kinda throws a wrench into the idea of politicians
being these kind of power hungry, money grubbing, distant people. She makes
herself very accessible to everyone in this community and she works really
long hours to try to appease as many people as she can and to find as many
solutions, whether they're big or small, as she can. And I feel like that's
the type of person that I want to represent me and to represent this town.
I feel very strongly about that, too. Obviously, I've supported her now
in two campaigns.
Stipe : For them it's
strategy, and for her it's like... I mean, I have the privilege of knowing
her, and it's like, it's not a strategy at all. That's the way Gwen is:
she's very much the type of person who can get things done and who does
not cut herself off from any section of the constituents in order to get
it done. I think she really considers and carefully weights every option.
That being said, I don't think it's a very easy job, and there are a lot
of compromises that have to be met on any issue, whether it's sewage and
water or whether it's controlled growth or whether it's recycling campaigns
for the city or social services that are provided for people who are needy
or without. I personally feel Gwen might represent more diverse groups
of people in this community than any other candidate that I've seen run.
And that to me is exciting.
Stipe : Bob Dole would
have to be right up there [laughs]. That's a really tough one, you know.
There are people that, like, Reagan to me, Ronald Reagan was just a devouring
character... But I'm not quite sure he knew what he represented or knew
what he was doing. I always felt like he was a puppet and there were people
behind him pushing him, including his wife, who really terrifies me. I've
actually stood in a room with Nancy Reagan, and I was stunned because I
always thought that given the opportunity to, like, knock her down or throw
a pineapple or just scream at her, I would do that, and instead I just
saw her as this kind of pathetic woman. She was a very powerful but pathetic
woman, but she was just another person. Within that, had I an opportunity
to shake hands with her and it didn't come up... had it come up, I could
not have done it. I could never have done it, even being raised a polite
Southern gentleman. That crosses a line that I could not...
Stipe : I'm a Clinton
supporter. I feel like he's made a lot of mistakes; I don't feel like he's
made the best decisions on everything and he's wavered a lot. I think a
lot of the criticism is well placed towards him. But that being said, again,
the position that he's in as president is a position of great compromise.
I don't claim to have any inside line to what goes on in Washington or
politics or the Clinton administration because of my particular position
and the fact that I have access to these people, but I have to say that
the job of President is so multi-facted and so layered, and the amount
of decisions and the amount of... of unbelievable stress and tension that's
on anybody, whether it's somebody you like or dislike, really, really is
incredible. I feel like Clinton is an extreme radical, and he's had to
cmpromise a lot of his ideas because of the position that he's in, but
I do believe he's trying to bring about great change in this country, and
it's something that's not easy. You can't please everybody. There are very,
very different ideologies about how this country should be run. In two
and a half, or three or four years that's not going to dramatically change.
He's also following 12 years of the worst rule that this country's ever
seen by Reagan and Bush. Not to sound like sour grapes, you know, because
it's in the past, but a lot of the decisions that were made during the
Reagan and Bush administrations are going to affect you and I into our
old age: the buildup of defense, the slashing of social organizations.
Stipe : Big, big problems.
Stipe : How would
you definite that?
Stipe : I can't claim to know the ins and outs of the health care plan. There are what, 18,000 pages or something. Some unbelievable tome. Again,
with Al Gore... he's in a
position of incredible compromise and no matter how much they may want
to do things, the way that they see they should be done they're incredibly
constricted by the system and by the positions that they hold.
Stipe : It's kind
of... there are a lot of songs about sex. I wanted it to be a really foxy
kind of record.
Stipe : Yes, we've
done one video for the first single, which is called "What's the Frequency,
Kenneth?" That's going to be released next week. And we're going to New
York next week to do another video. And we have plans to do two more after
that. And then probably a couple more next year.
Stipe : Michael Jackson?
(Laughs) I don't know. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I think I'm a pretty
complex person.
Stipe : I've been
following it pretty much like everybody else has. It's pretty boring at
this point. It was very exciting when it first happened, but the whole
"tabloiding" of the general media is a very disturbing trend. You know,
I could sure care less what Michael Jackson does in his spare time. Obviously,
I don't want him molesting young boys or young girls or anybody. It's just
a sad state of affairs when a story like that is more important and more
influential on people's minds than things that are going on that really
affect their lives in very real ways. If you follow it back a year and
a half, we have Michael Jackson and then Michael Jackson and Lisa Marie
Presley; we have O.J. Simpson; we have the Menendez trial; we have Lorraine
Bobbit cutting off her husband's penis; we have Tonya Harding and Nancy
Kerrigan; we have Kurt Cobain's suicide; we have... it's just ludicrous,
and it's actually something that's addressed on this record a lot. There
are something like five songs on this record that deal with media. I saw
Natural Born Killers a week and a half ago in Los Angeles, and I expected
that movie to lop media off at the knees and leave it bleeding on the sidewalk.
I thought it was going to absolutely condemn the place that media has come
to and the importance that it has in our lives, but it failed to me as
a film, dramatically failed as a film. It's actually not that violent -
it reads like a cartoon, for me it reads like a comedy. I thik it utterly
failed. But I went into the film with expectations; I probably got my just
desserts. I shouldn't have had any expectations and then I might have liked
it. I saw another film called SFW which means So Fucking What which deals
with media in a similar way, and that to me is a much more realized film,
and it really, for me, comments on the trend that you're talking about
where really minute and unimportant things become huge scandals and exposes.
Flagpole : It seems like every day normal newspapers are becoming more "tabloidized." I think the Nancy Kerrigan-Tanya Harding fiasco altered all the media coverage it got. I don't know. The media kind of chose to make Tanya Harding into the bad girl.
Stipe : The whore.
Flagpole : Yeah.
Stipe : And Nancy
Kerrigan into...
Stipe : Snow White
- the virgin. It's such a classic...
Stipe :River Phoenix's
death, Richard Nixon's death... You know, Tanya Harding and Nancy Kerrigan
- and the world of skating - is a pretty small world, and even within
the Olympics it's a small world, and nobody really gave a shit about skating
until this happened, you know. It was a pretty minor thing; it wasn't that
big a deal. Actually, I knew Nancy Kerrigan before this happened. We presented
an award together in Boston for human rights last year, and she seemed
nice enough, but anyway, it's sad, because everybody loses out. These people
become celebrities for no real reason. Not that that's a big deal, anybody
can be famous.
Stipe :Yeah, but it's
true. And what do we care? I really could care less about either one of
them. It's like a dead dog in the middle of the road, you know. You don't
want to look, but you have to look. There's this kind of human curiosity.
We're all guilty of it, whether we want to admit it or not, and we go along
with it. Or we don't we protest it or it gets to the point where it's cartoonish
and ludicrous. It's like what's next?
Stipe :You have to
play the game in order to battle it. I sometimes feel...um, I kind of work
from the inside out, like a tapeworm [laughs]. Not that I'm a revolutionary
or anything like that. I'd like to think that some of the ideas that are
handed down through our music and through the stuff we do outside of our
music really make people think and make them think hard about different
things and about how they're living their own lives and what their beliefs
are and what their belief systems are and what's defined as what's important
to them and what's not: what their priorities are. There's a certain...
um... Tori Amos had a really interesting take on this... I'm trying to
think of it. There's a certain vulnerability that... for me, as a fan of
music, as a fan of film there's a certain vulnerability that I think is
evident to all of us in certain people and not evident in others. They're
willing to put themselves out on a limb to say what they want to say or
to make whatever it is that they do available for them, and I guess I include
myself in that category. And I'm proud to be there.
Stipe :I'd probably
be a photographer for Flagpole.
Stipe: I don't think so. I would like to. I'm trying to put together a book of photographs, but I think I need to work for about another year, to get enough images that I think are really good. Photography is really my first love. I really only became a musician because it presented itself to me and it was something to do. I never really planned to be a musician. I feel really, really lucky. That's why it's so hard to say 'who else in the world would you want to be.' I'm really pretty happy with who I am. I've got a lot of faults and there are a lot of things about me that I would love to change, you know, like bad skin, but that's a part of me and that's something that doesn't really matter at the end of the day and I wouldn't be me if it wasn't for having bad skin, [laughs] whatever it is, so I'm pretty happy. Pretty happy. I feel very, very, very lucky. There was a photo exhibit and the money went to an AIDS organization in Los Angeles. It was centered around blue jeans. That was the theme of the show. So, I gave them a photograph of a friend of mine in blue jeans - it was River Phoenix, actually. They wanted pictures of famous people in blue jeans. The other thing was denim jackets designed by designers or famous people and I designed one.
Flagpole : Have you seen TV Nation?
Stipe :I think TV
Nation is unbelievably great! I'm going to get a TV Nation t-shirt Michael
Moore - he's a hero!
Stipe : I read every
magazine that comes out or I just buy it and look at it. I'm a voracious
magazine reader. Books that I've got on my shelf right now that I'm in
the process of reading or almost reading - I'm reading a lot of scripts
right now for movies. There's a Kennedy book, there's a book on school
systems, there's a book by Ian Banks called The Wasp Factor that I'm re-reading
that I read some years ago. I'm not a real big reader - I've got too much
going on [laughs]. How 'bout you, what are you reading?
