1997 CMJ Music Marathon, MusicFest and FilmFest
September 4, 1997
MARILYN MANSON: KEYNOTE ADDRESS
MM: I'm not good at speeches. I guess a year ago we came here to do a Night
of Nothing Showcase, which ended in a disaster of my drummer going to the
hospital, and since then, you know, as she said - the things that have
happened weren't any surprise to me. I thought making the album was going
to be transformational, but recording it was even more. And it's only
through self-contempt and inward dying that you can really become yourself,
and that's what I tried to do.
And anything that I've ever done with songs or performance has always been
to make people think. So I feel that's part of rock and roll that's in
danger of extinction. So I think it's pointless for me to get up here and
talk about the defects and the faults of mankind today, because when you
really get down to it, we're all just monkeys, and whenever we try and be
anything more than that is when we hurt each other.
So I guess we can answer some questions, if you guys have any.
Q: Not for sure what I want to say .. Being from Canton, Ohio, myself and
hearing people - stories that people talked and hearing about how you've
grown up, do you feel if your parents would have enrolled you in public
school your entire life, your music would be different? or do you still
think you'd be where you are right now - as opposed to going to Christian
school?
MM: Well, there's a lot of different elements of underlying fascism in
America, and one of them is always in organized religion. But there's also
plenty in television. The idea that people are always trying to convince
you that you have to be beautiful in order to fit in, you have to use a
certain type of toothpaste, you have to use a certain type of shampoo or
drive a certain car for people to accept you.
So I think no matter what environment I was put in, I would still feel the
same way. And it was after so many years of trying to fit in and feeling
like an outsider that I finally realized I didn't want to fit in anymore,
and I would rather just create my own status quo.
Q: Hi. I was just wondering, you just very briefly touched on 'we're all
just monkeys in this world'. In relation to Moby's speech about courage [he
had been the speaker before MM], I think we're all kind of on a high note
and feeling good about ambition. How are we supposed to make our mark if we
go on that notion that we're all just monkeys? I mean, aren't we supposed
to have optimism?
MM: Well, it's good to be idealistic, but I think mankind flatters itself
by thinking it's the final evolution. Because I think we'll see in the next
few years that man will create an intelligence that could replace him. And
I think that's what's going to scare everybody. So I think that personality
is all that's left to achieve. You know, you can do and say whatever you
want in whatever format and whatever media, but I guess if you just do it
with personality, you can hope to make your mark.
Q: Thank you. --Kind of a Canton reunion, huh?
Q: Two quick questions: You're hours away from sharing the stage with the
Spice Girls. How do you feel about that? (applause)
MM: I don't even think I need to respond to that.
Q: The other one. Whatever happened to the Snoop Doggy Dogg project?
MM: That's something I would still love to do. You know, I think since his
tour was just as hectic as mine, it hasn't happened yet. But it's not to
say it won't.
Q: Thanks very much.
MM: Thanks.
Q: Yeah, I was wondering what you would say to a critic who thinks that
your band relies more on sensationalism and brutality and just imagery more
than talent?
MM: Well, critics don't buy records, so I don't usually listen to them too
much. They get their albums for free in the mail, and then they sell them,
usually. Because I used to be one, so I know.
--No, it's a fair thing to say. I think I've spent five years learning what
Marilyn Manson is, and now I think that I know it's just the beginning for
me. I think "Antichrist Superstar" was really in some ways a first album,
because we finally learned as a band what we wanted to do and say. I'm very
proud of that record. So if, y'know, someone doesn't see the dynamics of it
- that I put into it, then I would just tell them to listen to it again
with an open mind.
Q: Hi. I read a column for a site on America Online called Urban Legends,
and I'm sure you're aware there are several of these that concern you, of
varying degrees of --
MM: --Nonsense.
Q: Nonsense, exactly. What I was wondering is -well, it's a twofold
question--
MM: I was not on "The Wonder Years".
Q: "Mr. Belvedere"?
MM: No.
Q: No, the question is not whether it's true or not. What I was wondering
is actually how you felt. Because it's sort of a parallel to what was
happening with your tour, that these outrageous stories were following you
and affecting you, and I was wondering how you felt about that.
And in a related question, how you would respond to somebody who was
responsible for spreading--
MM: How do you know it wasn't me?
Q: How would you respond to yourself then?
MM: Well, the thing with rumors - in the end it doesn't matter whether or
not they were true, because what's popular is what people believe. You
know, no matter how many times you could say it, everybody thinks Richard
Gere puts hamsters up his ass or Rod Stewart had a couple of gallons of cum
pumped out of his stomach. We've all heard all of the rumors. So for me, my
ribs were removed and I was Winnie Cooper on "The Wonder Years". But I've
never minded the rumors.
Y'know, if I were to complain about them...at least people are talking. It
wouldn't be better if they weren't talking. Then, y'know, I would have
something to worry about.
But I think a lot of times the reality of what Marilyn Manson is, wasn't
enough for the very conservative Christian angle to really express what I
do. So I think a lot of times I had to create a lot of these stories to
help their cause, and...some of them were based in fact and others weren't,
you know. Everybody's heard the stories about sex onstage, and there was -
y'know, a couple of instances, but those things happened a few years ago.
That's not to say I wouldn't do it again, but it was awhile ago.
Q: So you do think that some of these stories were started with a purpose?
I mean, do you think--
MM: Well, a purpose to kind-of undermine me, I think. But the strange thing
is, if we were to abide by the Christian principles that they're trying to
uphold - whatever happened to 'love thy neighbor' and 'judge not lest you
be judged'? is what I have to say to them.
So I think a lot of times when they acted the way they did, they proved a
lot of my points, y'know, because I didn't go around burning down churches
or protesting Sunday school or kicking nuns in the kneecaps. I just wanted
to speak my piece. And me getting up on a stage in front of a lot of
people, and them paying money to hear what I had to say, is no different
than what happens on Sunday afternoon in any church.
Q:Thanks a lot.
MM: Okay.
Q: Hey, I've read that you're a priest in Anton LaVey's Church of Satan,
and I was wondering if you believe in that or it's part of your image, and
if you do believe in it, why?
MM: Over the years I've spent a lot of time interested in religion, and
I've read into all different dimensions, whether it was Judaism or
Catholicism or Christianity. And Satanism is one that particularly appealed
to me. So I struck up a friendship with Anton LaVey. And sort of a symbolic
gesture was this, quote unquote, priesthood element.
But Satanism is really just, in my view, a philosophy, not unlike Nietzche
or Darwin, an idea of man and his self-preservation, man being his own God.
And the word Satan, which tends to scare people a lot, represents the
ultimate rebellion against the mainstream. You know, the character of
Lucifer in the Bible being, to me, always a hero, because he got kicked out
of heaven because he wanted to be God.
So that's always been my take on Satanism, and a lot of people have turned
it into something else. And it's often pointless to try and fight it
because no matter how much you say, people won't listen. There's really a
stigma attached to certain words like that. But I've always been into the
balance of God and Satan as just being like Marilyn and Manson to me.
Q: Thanks.
Q: Hi. I was just wondering in terms of the future of Marilyn Manson - in
five years, what role do you see yourself playing in the music industry as
well as the eyes of the media?
MM: Well, I started out in the media, and I was really dissatisfied with
some of the answers that the musicians I was interviewing gave me, so I
thought it would be more appropriate if I was giving the answers. So in
some ways music is an excuse for me to talk shit. Like I am today.
But I don't think anyone...anyone really expects me to fall into a niche or
to repeat what I've done in the past on our next album, or the one after
that. You know, I hope to surprise them, because that's not my goal. I want
to continue to grow in all ways. Even as a person.
I think that this year of being thrust into the position of 'Antichrist
Superstar' - which, to me, is a personality that anyone could be, it's what
we all want to say and what we all want to do, but most of us are too
afraid to say and do because you feel like you're going to have to
apologize to somebody for the way you really feel - after being that, every
day of my life for the past year, it has changed me in a lot of ways. It's
made me more human. It's made me realize that there is something human left
in me, when I thought maybe that there wasn't.
Q: With the experiences that you have had, would you say that you're more
optimistic or pessimistic about your future?
MM: It kind-of tends to be the same in both cases, because the things that
are good about America are also the things that make it terrible. The sex
and the violence, you know - everyone wants to complain about it, but
that's what's great. So you can't really win. I think basically we have the
end of the world to look forward to, and I'd just like to push the
fast-forward button and have a good time on the way and hope that we'll all
be entertained as we go. That's really all we can hope for.
Q:Thanks a lot.
Q: I have a couple questions. How long ago did you meet with Trent way back
in the day? And what influenced you?
MM: I met Trent when I used to be a journalist and I interviewed him. And
he was actually one of the people that was encouraging to me, in the sense
that we grew up in the same kind of environment, in the Midwest, and he
seemed to be someone that made his dream happen. And that kind-of
encouraged me in a lot of ways, as well as musically.
At the time when I started the band, I think my biggest influence to start
a band was the 2 Live Crew, strangely enough. Because at the time they were
just getting arrested for talking about being horny or whatever nonsense it
was at the time, and I thought it would be interesting to see what exactly
a skinny white kid from Florida could get away with. And apparently a lot
more than they could, so…
Q: I was curious as to your involvement with Rasputina, and basically what
interests you with them? Also your remixes of 'Transylvanian Concubine',
are you happy with them?
MM: I don't remember how I came across Rasputina, but when I heard the CD,
it was obviously - if you guys have heard them playing, it's different than
anything that anyone is doing right now. And I was really impressed by
them. And I thought that it was …Melora's lyrics were also very cynical and
ironic, and the way that she sings them made them even more impressive. So
as far as - on our last American tour they did a small interlude before our
show, and then they also sang some backup vocals with me onstage. I enjoyed
working with them, abd I hope Melora might do some stuff on our new album.
Q: Could you say a little bit about the remixes?
MM: The remixes, we did while we were on the road with them, and I think it
scared them because the song was a sort-of ¾ waltz number, and we replaced
it with a 4/4 Ice Cube drumbeat, death metal guitars on it. I think it made
them nervous at first, but hopefully they liked it.
Q: I think they're great. Thank you.
MM: Thanks.
Q: Hi, Marilyn. I totally agree with your philosophy about self - being
involved in the music industry like you are, that's a great thing. But in
addition to that I'm also a parent of very small children, my oldest being
ten,. And they're very bright today, and we live in a free society. My only
question to you is that when you make your musical videos - which I've seen
with my mouth open, but certainly in due respect to you - when you're
making them and doing your music, do you feel a certain amount of
responsibility to the very young people who look to you as a role model, be
it, and growing up? So it's kind of like a paradox and --
MM: I feel responsibility to do what I do so that parents will educate
their children. I think any parent that's afraid to let their kid come to a
concert like this should go with them. And if there's something that scares
them or confuses them, they should talk about it. My parents took me to my
first KISS concert. My dad dressed up like KISS. And I turned out all
right.
Q: Hey!
MM: I mean, I don't consider myself to be so much of an innovator, or that
what I'm doing is any more controversial than Elvis Presley was in his era.
So time doesn't change the way people feel, I think. But now there's even
more of a need for parents to educate their children, because we're in an
era where people can stop thinking very easily. Because there's so much
virtual reality and there's computers and there's VCRs and there's cellular
phones and there's Beavis and Butt-Head, and nobody really needs to make an
opinion. And a lot of people who are here today are writers that give
people their opinion. People don't take the time to sit down and form their
own values.
I think parents should make sure that an important part of what they teach
their kids, is that you should have an opinion. That's probably the one
thing that damaged me the most about Christian school, that standing out or
being different or being individual was really frowned upon. And if your
opinion went against what theirs was, you were made to feel like you were a
sinner and you were guilty and you should feel bad about yourself, and I
think that's not a good thing.
Q: Thank you.
Q: Standing out in public school where the beautiful people live in
southern California, and I do mean Rancho Santa Fe - it wasn't really fun
either. I was working at a station and you came an interviewed, and we
talked for about an hour and a half, and you really touched me.
MM: On what part of your body?
Q: Actually, we were really pretty far apart.
MM: I'm just kidding.
Q: It didn't matter, you touched me all over. But we touched a lot of
people that felt that way.
But getting back to the monkey thing. We're all primal, what can I say?
Fear is part of prewiring, which is what we're born with. Now let's say,
Marilyn, that your music makes people think, makes people communicate. It
is a conduit to have parents communicate with their children and rid them
of a lot of that prewiring. You rid yourself of the man - or whatever - you
fear, then what? Is there some possible evolution?
MM: Well, I think intelligence is the only criteria that I've ever used to
judge people on. And not to say book-smarts, but just creativity and what
you add to the world, I mean, sexism and racism is far too lenient, because
I could never say I like all white people - because there's too many stupid
ones - or all men or all women. I respect people that have something to
offer. I think that is evolution.
If you evolve to a level where you can offer something to the world,
whether that's just an opinion you offer, giving someone the middle finger
or painting a beautiful picture, writing a book - it doesn't matter. Just
so you're trying to offer something other than filing off to work and going
to college and dying, the standard pattern that we're all supposed to fit
into.
Q: The monkey part?
MM: The monkey part. In some ways I think monkeys are a lot smarter than
us, because they don't let their emotions control them.
Q: That's true. Thank you.
Q: You made a reference earlier to our sensationalist media and how it's
one of the evils of our society. Yet without our media and having you
plastered all over it and giving you that publicity, do you think you'd be
where you are today?
MM: That's the beauty of it, isn't it?
Q: That is exactly why I'm a major in it.
MM: That's really the paradox of it. You answered the question yourself, I
think. It's not that the media is evil, it's just - people should see
everything for what it is. You know, they should see it. And you can either
be used by it or you can use it. Whichever way you want to look at it.
Q: Thank you.
Q: Kind of tying into the last question - a few years ago I saw you on Phil
Donahue, of all things, and I was amazed at how well-spoken you were. I was
with one of my friends and we caught you a few weeks ago on 'Politically
Incorrect', and I turned to my roommate and said 'you watch, this is going
to be 22 minutes where these three people rail on Marilyn Manson.' And
seeing you holding hands with Carol Brady is the single greatest
pop-culture moment ever.
Do you want the focus on Marilyn Manson the person, do you want the focus
on Marilyn Manson the band, or do you want the focus on Marilyn Manson the
music?
MM: I want the world and I want it now.
I think it's not really important in the end as long as there is a focus. I
think people eventually see the music if they want to. I don't think you
can try and cram it down anyone's throat, or the message, or anything. I've
never considered myself just a musician, though. I've considered myself as
more of an entertainer of people.
Q: Do you tire of the literally relentless attention? Especially - I mean,
I know it went on for more than 22 minutes, but the woman was just over you
the entire time.
MM: I didn't really have to say anything to prove my point because just her
ignorance proved her own point.
And she was a virgin. And no disrespect to virgins, but until you've been
fucked, don't talk to me. Think about it. What did you know when you were a
virgin, you know? It's like thinking the world is flat. Until you've had
some sort of contact with a penis, it's - don't worry about it. It's a
basic principle of mankind.
Q: Actually, this kind of goes along with the fucking thing.
Do you have warts?
MM: Do I have warts?
Q: Does Jimmy have warts?
MM: Jimmy does have warts.
Q: Okay, thanks.
Q: Marilyn, I recently read something that - a quote that went along the
lines of 'Marilyn Manson's a marketing genius who knows how to manipulate
the media better than any musician since Madonna'. I was wondering how you
feel about that, and how much do you take into account the media's reaction
when planning a project or other actions, or things that you say to the
media?
MM: I actually don't think about it as much as it might appear. It just
seems to work itself into a frenzy. And I think that's just because what I
do is based around my knowledge of how people act and because of the way
I've acted growing up. And it seems that sometimes the media's reactions
are very predictable. So I've just tried to take that to the next level,
because, you know, everybody thinks 'this isn't that shocking'. You know,
'I'm not impressed'. But my point has never been to shock anyone, it just
been to get people's attention so that they'll listen to what I have to
say.
Q:Thanks.
MM: Okay.
Q: I talked to Geezer Butler recently, and he was talking -
MM: Who did you talk to?
Q: Geezer Butler. And he - as much as he respects you as a person, he
thinks it was a big mistake adding you to the [Ozzfest tour] bill. What did
you think about that?
MM: I would agree with that. I expected that audience to be much more
open-minded in the sense of the tradition of what Black Sabbath created,
because Black Sabbath really did create heavy metal. In so many ways it was
very subversive, and it was about the people that - I thought that we were
people that didn't fit in. And the crowd turned out to be, y'know, a lot of
drunk guys who wanted to fight me because I was wearing pantyhose. So…
Q: Do you consider what you do heavy metal?
MM: In some ways, yeah, I think so. In the sense of what Black Sabbath
created. Not necessarily sonically, but just what it represents, sure.
Q: Hi, Marilyn. I think we've established that the controversy has played a
key role in your career. What happens when the controversy dies, is your
career over then?
MM: It could be if I was that naïve. But I think, like I said, this is just
the beginning for me, and I think to prove marilyn Manson as a musical
force, and for people to really sit down and listen to an album like
'Antichrist Superstar' and the one we're about to record, controversy is
just something extra. I don't think that's what I'm about. I think that I
will prove that to everyone.
Q: Do you feel your music has the power to outlast any controversy that
will surround you?
MM: Anything has the power if you believe in it enough, and I believe in
it.
Q: Thank you.
Q: Marilyn, first of all, I have to thank you for being as nice as you are.
I saw you last night at a party, and you were nice.
MM: That wasn't me.
Q: It was you. Totally was you.
But my question actually is: in a country like America where Larry Flynt
gets shot, do you actually fear for your life, per all the different - you
know - politicians and people out there that do not respect or have an open
mind to understand what you do?
MM: I do in some ways. But a fear of death makes life exciting, I've always
found. And it may sound morbid to say that, but I've just found that
sometimes that makes it more worthwhile to me, what I'm doing. Because I've
always discovered that, y'know, if you do something that everybody loves,
it's not really worth that much. So I've always valued my enemies as much
as my fans.
Q: Thank you.
Q: Hi. I was just wondering if you're a happy person, if you're happy to be
alive, or do you think that inner joy is the result of being naïve?
MM: Well, I've often thought that happiness is a mental disorder, because
anyone that's happy has got to have something wrong with them. But I do get
fulfillment from what I do. It satisfies me. I don't know if I'd say I was
happy; I don't consider myself miserable. But 'happy' seems like a word
that was created by people that wanted to exploit you for something. You
know, people that invented theme parks and Happy Meals, things like that.
Q: Do you think - how do you feel about the conservative Christian critics
who feel that if you found God you would be saved and your big mistake in
your music would be fixed?
MM: Well, I think they don't realize that I have found God, but I've just
found it in a different way.
Q: Do you feel that your fans and your critics may take you too seriously?
MM: It depends. I think our fans are a lot smarter than our critics give
them credit for. So I think our critics take our fans too seriously. And -
but I think everything should be taken with a bit of a sense of humor. I'm
very serious about what I do, but that's not to say that I'm not a smartass
at heart.
--Is that it?
Thanks for everything.
(
geocities.com/sunsetstrip/studio) (
geocities.com/sunsetstrip)