RG: People accuse you of, "Oh, he's not this miserable character from his songs," even
though, it seems to me, that in interviews you've been pretty honest about what kind of person
you are.
Reznor: When I started out with nine inch nails and it went from my journal entries to songs to "You've
got a record deal," I thought, "I'm not as interesting as Perry Farrell." Like, I wasn't a male prostitute or
a heroin addict and I'm kind of a normal f**ker. I'm just a f**ked-up guy that just wants to say why I'm
tucked-up. And I don't have this elaborate weird lifestyle, but I thought if I have the chance, well, maybe I
should portray myself as somebody. And I thought, "No, I couldn't really keep the lie up so I'll just be
truthful." And when I was truthful and said. "This is how I feel, this is how I am, who I am," it's followed
by, "Oh, you're not really this vampirish, suicidal, Joy Division hanging yourself kind of guy." Well, that
is part of my personality- For some reason part of my brain doesn't work right. I'm not happy. The only
time I really want to murder people is when some f**kin' writer claims I'm fabricating everything just to be
this thing. I hate doing interviews, 'cause I feel like I'm spreading my butthole open. You're talking to
someone who gets to tell the world their version of you.
RG: And who might paint the "sad" thing as some sort of act.
Reznor: When someone asks me, "What are you sad about?" it just tells me that the person asking
that has never attained any goal they've set out to do, because it's not about reaching your goals. Part
of me is like, I feel extra s**tty that I'm not elated at what I'm doing. But another part of me that I've been
thinking about recently, when I realize I'm still sad in a weird way ... when I was doing Broken, I said,
"All I want to do is finish the record so I can get out on tour." Because the only time I'd ever felt like I
belonged to anything is when I was on tour and getting some kind of reward. F**k, man, you're sitting in
your bedroom writing, ready to kill yourself, and then you're on stage and you're meaning this and you're
ready to start crying and seeing people mouthing back your words. And you see people that seem to
understand.
RG: At the level you're at now, does that still mean as much? Like making eye contact with a
kid who gets it?
Reznor: Abso-f**kin'-Iutely. At Woodstock ... and as I've said a million times, we did that just to make
money to pay for our tour .. I got on the stage and we sounded s**tty and I was so f**kin' nervous.... But
I got off the stage and I don't care how the fuck we sounded because I felt like I made contact.
RG: But then some people probably don't get it.
Reznor: When we first went out ... I remember the agony of writing those lyrics and going through that
s**t and finally you meet people backstage and you think, "is this what the f**k I ....? Why did I go to
such effort?" Some guy's like, "is that song about Satanism?" It's like, what!? I realized after meeting
some of these people, like, f**k, is everyone an idiot? No one seems to get what I meant. Then I
realized I wouldn't be the guy waiting backstage to hang out. Walking down Bourbon Street and seeing
a karaoke bar and hearing "Closer" with frat guys singing - that's not the ideal forum for that song. That's
as inappropriate as I could ever think it would be, but I can't say it shouldn't be there. But I do think
there are people that get it. If I didn't think that....
RG: With the type of thing you write about, the mental state of being in a hole or whatever...
Reznor: All I ever wanted to write about was a way out. And not a pretentious philosophy of something,
just --- when I wrote this shit it made me feel better about myself. People say, "Oh you're so negative
blah blah blah," but by my screaming about it and getting it out of my system, it helped me- And when
people say, "Hey, I know how you felt," whether they do or not, who cares? It's a catalyst, and that's
what's cool about it. And I'll say another stupid thing, though it'll probably look bad: People were saying
I'm painting myself in a corner, you say Bowie even said that.... I see that, and there was a point where I
realized, kind of sadly, when I was starting on downward spiral and I thought about when I saw the
Police when I was a senior in high school and I thought about this whole arena full of people singing,
"One world is enough for all of us." And there was this positive kind of weird good vibe going on ... but
I'm sitting there thinking, "I'm on a f**king path to self-destruction ... and I wish that there was some kind
of......
RG: Some cathartic negative "statement" to sing along with?
Reznor: I was thinking about ... a lot of times it seems to me the statements in my head and the words
and the sentences and the lines I come up with that are the most dramatic.... When I write them down
and I think, "That's a good line," they also have a kind of ... they also sometimes are for the drama of
the thing. Certain things I've written, like even something as ridiculous as "I wanna f**k you like an
animal," I knew it would be ... it's an attention grabber and juvenile in a sense.
RG: But the funny thing about that line is you thought that song might make you look like a
"pussy"…
Reznor: Musically, that's what I was saying. Why I thought that line would work in that song was the
music was the most obvious silly disco, Prince, Soft Cell type thing and to put something like that over
it....
RG: To hear that song on the radio you're kind of off the hook because of that line, just
because you're sort of getting away with something obviously extreme.
Reznor: There's another way to look at that, too. That's the strip bar anthem, the frat bar anthem ...
f**kin' bulls**t. And what gave that some integrity, I think, was the video, which is great and which I had
very little to do with. Mark Romanak did it. And then it was flattering and irritating to see many other
bands step right up to the plate and rip it off.
RG: One thing that bugs me is people doing shock value stuff just for the sake of shock value.
With no content....
Reznor: Yeah. I could take a video of me taking a shit and here's a close-up of the turd coming out and
that's offensive. But it's not ... anyone could do that.
RG: Just going back to Marilyn Manson ... I'm open to whatever people wanna do and I've got
nothing against them, but they really push that "shock" thing sometimes. I don't mean to imply
something stupid like, "it is bad for the kids?" but....
Reznor: Is it responsible? Is that what you mean?
RG: Yeah.
Reznor: There was one moment when I was sitting with Manson and all the people from Interscope and
one of their songs ended with a big long diatribe of a computer voice saying, "You might as well kill
yourself. You're already dead.' And I had the president of Interscope looking at me like (blank face). But
I've created an arena where I'll never tell anyone who I invite in, "You can't do that." I swore I'd never f**k
with the art or whatever you wanted to say. And I thought on downward spiral when I wrote that poem
over the song "downward spiral" that talked about killing yourself and making it kind of sexy, I felt like I
needed to do it when the record came out. But the worst thing I could ever hear is that someone f**kin'
shot themselves.
RG: "Trent Reznor told me to do it."
Reznor: And I never ... that's not what ... I meant to demystify it by acknowledging it there.
RG: That you had these feelings as well.
Reznor: Exactly. To me that was the ultimate, "I'm not the only person that felt that way growing-up'
shit, where I felt, "I can't fit into this f**kin' world. F**k, yeah. Someone else understands."
RG: That's why I mentioned It with Marilyn Manson. Personally, I got the impression that you
put a bit more thought behind it than he might.
Reznor: There may be a different end result. I did personally talk to Manson and say, "Realize the
repercussions. If you're a band that sells 5000 records that's one thing, but the bigger you get, the more
people want to f**k with you and the more responsibility you have." I'm an advocate of no censorship, no
one should be able to tell you what you can or cannot experience and I think empowering the individual
is the key. My parents: "You wanna try drugs? Here, do 'am. You wanna have a drink? Here, have a
drink." Puked on the rug that night. And then, "Well, how was it?" It was demystified.
RG: But some people might not be smart enough to deal with that.
Reznor: I can't believe that I'm smarter than anyone else. I don't have the right to think I can say....
RG: You know that you're smarter than anybody who would be stupid enough to....
Reznor: There is a degree of responsibility. But I'm all for dangerous material getting into the
mainstream. As I've gotten bigger and infiltrated the Kmarts and the f**kin' ldahos, I'm into putting a
record out that gives them something they've never heard before and might be dangerous and their
parents might be pissed off about it. But at the same time now, as a human being, I think there's a
degree of ... I'm not gonna say, 'Take a knife and cut your throat If you're bummed out," kind of vibe. I'm
not about that.
RG: But that Marilyn Manson "you might as well kill yourself" thing is along the same lines.
Reznor: You may be right in a way, but there's a schtick to the whole thing. And they'll get to maturity
where they'll see that. But also try to understand what I've tried to offer the people around me is this
protection. And when their first record came out, Interscope, who is now making a lot of money off the
new one, wasn't gonna put it out. Why? "'Cause it's alluding to rape and..-." "Well, I'm not changing it.
F**k you. Don't put it out."
RG: But can you imagine a limit?
Reznor: I know what you're saying, just from a responsibility factor. It's all fun and games in the studio
and it's funny to say this and that, but It's another thing when someone f**king kills themselves, some
impressionable....
RG: I'm just playing Devil's ... well, Devil's advocate might not be the right term here. I'm just
asking.
Reznor: I know that. I know exactly what you're getting at.
RG: Like, "Mom, I want the new Marilyn Manson CD for Christmas." Just one look at the cover
and Mom is like, "What the f**k?"
Reznor: That's what's great about it! It should f**king piss off your parents. It should be ridiculous. And
where I think Manson has a somewhat dangerous message within that, it should do that. See, now rock
is pumped into your house every second, every day. It needs a kick in the a**. To what degree of
extremity ... who knows?
RG: But you have to have something beyond the shock value.
Reznor: I fully agree with what you're saying. I'm 31 now, and I've thought about kids and marriage and
adult things and stuff I never thought I'd ever dream of. I'm not saying I'm an old man now, but I also see
that the new challenge is how to promote yourself in a way that's true to who you are. I don't want to be
singing "Head Like A Hole" at age 50. I'm aware that maybe my appeal had been this extreme
statement that appeals to whoever. But everything that I've done has been honest to where I've been at
the time and it always will be.
RG: Do you feel as you get older .. when you're a kid you get really excited and music is the
way you -
Reznor: - identify yourself. Absolutely. The bands you like, that's your club.
RG: That's your thing. What was the first record you bought?
Reznor: The Partridge Family, the one that had the phone number on it.
RG: What was the first concert you saw?
Reznor: The Eagles with Fleetwood Mac and Boz Scaggs. It was the greatest thing. My dad took me
and I had a hit off a joint....
RG: I'm asking just because, when you're a kid music things like that start to form the way you
look at life. Those memories are emblazoned upon you. But as you get older----
Reznor: But it's a different thing now, too. Think about this: back then, like, I grew up in a small town
and MTV wasn't pumping information at you, and you looked forward to staying up on Friday to watch
"Midnight Special" or whatever.
RG: "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert."
Reznor: Yeah. You didn't have ... like I think about Aerosmith now and every 15 minutes there's f**kin'
Steven Tyler on TV. It's safe now. You don't have to seek that out.
RG: Weird musical milestones on TV stand out for me, like the Plasmatics on "Fridays," when
they sawed their guitar in half.
Reznor: Yeah! "Fridays" with Michael Richards.
RG: Kramer.
Reznor: I can totally f**kin' remember that! I remember KISS on that from Music From The Elder, when
Gene Simmons was crying. But now it's ... not to sound like an old turd, but it's different now.
RG: But maybe it's not. What I'm getting at ... is there a way to put yourself into that mindstate
to realize you're doing that for people now? Fifteen years from now they'll talk about you like
this.
Reznor: I think we, as people our age, have to understand the medium has changed from the Internet
down to MTV pumped into your house every second. It's different now.
RG: Just accessing something that others don't have is harder.
Reznor: It's again that elitism of music and ... also understanding that for me personally music has
been... I remember songs that I first heard, where I was. That's my soundtrack to life. And not everybody
is about that. Like I remember (sings) "Fooled A-round And Fell In Looove-" That's was what was playing
at the Eagles concert at the stadium when I got passed a joint with my dad, and that was the coolest
thing I had ever done at that point. I had a T-shirt that I got made at Kmart with iron-on letters that said
"EAGLES" 'cause they were my favorite band- There are people that maybe now Marilyn Manson is
doing that for them, but juxtaposing a different situation on it and realizing it's a different climate. One
thing I always thought growing up was like, "Man, I hope I never get to the age where I don't like toys
anymore 'cause I love Christmas and I love getting toys." Later I thought, "I hope I never got to the point
where I lose touch with what's going on musically." But then you realize this weird thing of maturity
creeps in- Understand that I'm not saying I'm Mr. Old Guy right now, but I've gone through changes and I
realize I'm not 21 right now and I still like innovative, cool things ... but I'm lying if I think my brain hasn't
changed.
