Welcome to Part Five of the Cowboy Mach Bell Interview
Here it is, as promised, the EXCLUSIVE interview with former JPP member Cowboy Mach Bell. Part five [the final part of our interview] mostly deals with all post-JPP days related questions. I hope you enjoy it.
41] Crossfire: What do you think of the current state of Rock And Roll?
Cowboy Mach Bell: I think the world is waiting for a great hard rock act to follow in the Aerosmith tradition. A musically gifted band with a sense of showmanship, style and swagger. A band that reaches out to the fans but has a special, almost regal quality. A band that is steeped in the traditions of rock but have something brand new to say. I had high hopes for Guns ‘N Roses. It’s too bad they couldn’t maintain what they started with ‘‘Appetite For Destruction.” As AC/DC said ‘‘It’’s a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll’’ –– but the opportunity is still there for the next great hard rock band. No matter how much the music business tries to screw it all up, there is always a good shot for a truly unique rock band to break big.
42] Crossfire: What current bands are you into?
Cowboy Mach Bell: I hate to make lists like these; I always leave so many obvious choices out. Some of these new bands I can really listen to –– their whole CD, others I like a song or 2. New music I listened to this past summer included: Lenny Kravitz, Kenny Wayne Shepard, Buck Cherry, Kid Rock, Junior Brown, Rob Zombie, Garbage, Filter, World Gone Mad, Stone Temple Pilots, The Beastie Boys, Last Man Standing, Iggy Pop, Chris Cornell (I dug Soundgarden, too bad they folded), Fat Boy Slim and the Black Crowes to name a few. I’m also really glad to see The Cult back together, I dig those guys. I wish there were more great new hard rock bands out there.
43] Crossfire: How do you feel about the recent resurgence of JPP fans and general interest in the band?
Cowboy Mach Bell: I’m thrilled to see Joe Perry’s solo work being rediscovered, re-released, discussed and enjoyed. I feel very fortunate to still be around to see this renewed and growing interest in the Joe Perry Project. I must credit you Scott, as well as Renata and the other devoted Joe Perry supporters who’ve really made it happen by starting all these web sites, tracking down and trading live tapes and spreading the JPP gospel to all creation.
44] Crossfire: Are you in touch with any members of The Wild Bunch?
Cowboy Mach Bell: I haven’t seen drummer/producer Hirsh Gardner in a long time. I read that the 3 albums he cut with New England ("Don't Ever Wanna Lose You") are being reissued. Guitarist Teddy Anderson was out at my place this summer. Of course, I’m in constant contact with my close friend Danny Hargrove, bassist of the Wild Bunch as well as the Joe Perry Project.
45] Crossfire: What is your favorite Aerosmith song/album?
Cowboy Mach Bell: Those guys have turned out so much material that I go through phases of different faves, you know what I mean? I love the rippin’ fast numbers they open up the albums with. I like songs with strong killer guitar riffs and I like it when Steven blows that harp! Lately, some numbers I like most are "Walk on Water" and "Draw the Line.” I can listen to any Aerosmith LP all the way through without skipping over a song. Two of my favorites were probably their slowest sellers on initial release –– ‘‘Done With Mirrors’’ and the debut “Aerosmith.” The sparse production let’s us really hear those chops. The guys have that. “Backs up against the wall -- fighting for their lives - - underdogs of rock sound that I like!
46] Crossfire: Do you like Aerosmith's newer music?
Cowboy Mach Bell: Everyone has there own take on this –– here’s mine: I guess it may be impossible to be a hugely
popular mainstream rock band today and still be "cool.” Mainstream means staying in the public eye,
charting high with every release and representing a genre to the world at large. Most hard core
"cool" rock fans love the underdog, and if Aerosmith went back to struggling in the smaller theaters
and clubs like most of yesterdays surviving heroes, doing their great old hits and some newer stuff
in that vein –– I’m sure the remaining old fans would be very happy. But the Aero-boys don’t want
to bean underground band. They are the most competitive fighters I have ever met. They want to
be a force in the industry. They want to win. They never backdown from a challenge. They are out
for blood. Aerosmith first rose to fame in the 70's and the band’s testosterone charged, hard
guitar rock sound fit into that eras "album oriented" radio format. A few years later the rules
changed. Aerosmith and their ilk were labeled "dinosaurs." Most of them were killed off and herded
away never to be heard of on contemporary radio or in the press again. Aerosmith said ‘‘screw you’’
and came back with an entirely new, extremely popular rock sound that radio was forced to play,
The music biz was shocked and said "wait a minute, you guys are supposed to be dead, go away.
We’ve changed the rules again -- now MTV, and Gen-X is where it’s at -- Aerosmith is washed up
and not invited to our party." Aerosmith said, "eat me" and produced the hottest, most played
series of video clips to ever hit music television. This was too much for the music biz, which replied
"OK, you A**holes take your big amps and scarves and beat it. The rules have changed again! Rock
bands are dead. Gen-X has grown up. People want boy bands and Mariah Carey. We hardly even
promote hard rock and radio won't play you. We want Titanic soundtracks and Celine Dion.
Aerosmith replied "blow it out your butt" and outdid Celine Dion at her own game. When ragged,
funny looking’ Steven wrapped his big monkey lips around ‘‘I Don;t Want To Miss A Thing" with Joe
and the whole Aero-gypsy band strumming along at this year's Oscar Awards -- I felt it was
actually a huge triumph for ancient rebels like me. Aerosmith has left us a massive catalog of
classic rock cuts and they can still rock your ass off, but they refuse to be regarded as a "one trick
pony" band from yesteryear. They take every roadblock the music industry, throws at them and
continue to come out on top.
I can understand if you think my viewpoint is a bunch of hogwash. That's O.K., if you want to put
today’s Aerosmith down -- like the radio programmers and critics do -- it'll only make them fight
harder and get even more creative. It's fine with me if some folks want to worship the work
Aerosmith did 20 years ago and decry the ‘‘false’’ Aerosmith of today -- but it does make me sick
when Aerosmith’s supposed ”fans” accuse today's band of changing their style “just for the money.”
It's never been about the loot. I say it's all about creativity, professionalism and rattling the
establishment's cages. It's about being a dedicated, life-long player; working at a high level, taking
on public challenges and letting the music do the talking. If you think topping the charts is easy, or
there's a simple formula to Aerosmith's newer music –– I say you don't really know music buyers. If
you think topping the charts is in itself an evil or distasteful pursuit -- then you just don't
understand the extremely competitive spirit that drives Perry, Tyler and the band. Aerosmith still
have a lot more music in them. . .Sure, I know many of us first fell in love with their ‘‘Last Child’’
style, and they’ll still do that –– good as ever- in concert -- but if you can’’t handle where they’ve
brought us so far –– get off the bus now- ‘‘cause they’re going to be bringing us a whole lot
further.” Mach my words.
47] Crossfire: Aerosmith played [on the "Nine Lives" tour] the JPP concert mainstays "Let The Music Do The Talking" and "The Wanderer"...do you think Joe still has some of the JPP inside him?
Cowboy Mach Bell: Without a doubt Scott. Look how Perry commands the stage and sings out today. Back in the late seventies Joe was becoming a fragile ornament off to the side of the action. Joe looks like he’s leading the band today. I said it before, but I’ll say it again -- people say Joe left the Project and returned to Aerosmith but I see it differently. In 1984 Aerosmith, their management in shambles, broke, without a crew or gigs were drawn to Joe Perry. I believe they were drawn to Joe’s pure rock energy and the organization he had built around himself. Pet, Hargrove and I found our jobs taken –– but the Project crew, management, booking agents and contacts stayed the same. The 1984 “Back in the Saddle” Tour hit many of the venues Joe had cultivated with the JPP, and of course they led off the Aerosmith comeback LP with a Project song. I bet if you scrape the Aerosmith logo off Joey Kramer’s kick drum you'll see the "Joe Perry Project" written there.
48] Crossfire: Why didn't Joe sing any songs on "Once A Rocker, Always A Rocker?
Cowboy Mach Bell: Tim told me, when I first came on board, that Joe’s third LP would feature several "name" guest
vocalists, some Perry vocal solos and maybe 2 tracks with the Cowboy singing. Later at Joe’s
mansion, Elyssa went on and on talking to me about how "Robert Plant should get together with Joe
and do the vocals on the next Project album." Joe just looked at me and rolled his eyes.
Meanwhile back at the Cambridge Complex sound stage where we finished rehearsing for our first
gigs, I was developing a bit of a complex. After years of standing center stage with my tripod mic
stand -- Joe had the crew set me up way over to stage right. Brad was on the left side and Joe was
center stage. "O.K." -- I thought- "This is The Joe Perry Project after all –– I'll just have to get
used to playing right field. If I can sing at all on a Perry record that will be very cool. Maybe I
should hold back, lay off the craziness, sing the songs and stay out of Joe’s spotlight. Time passed,
Joe and I started to develop a friendship –– Brad left -- Joe had his seizure on stage in North
Carolina. . .The day before we returned to the road -- Joe pulled me aside "Mach, I want to put you
in center stage, I'm going back over to the side -- in front of my amp line." It was a huge relief for
both of us, and I took it as a (huge) compliment. Soon talk about the "guest vocalist" LP faded.
Talk about any LP faded. Joe was concentrating on the live show. I slowly gained confidence and
started doing my "thing" on stage with the Project. Joe continued to sing his solo songs, but slowly
went from 3 to 2 to only one song per show. Let me just say, I loved it when Joe took the lead
vocals, if he had done more of the singing it could have been very beneficial to the Project. Looking
back at it all now, here's my impression of what was going on: I think Joe had been dealing with a
lot of Steven Tyler/lead singer issues. When he started his solo band Joe wanted to prove that
song lyrics could be written quickly, that singing wasn’t such a big deal –– any band member could do
it –– and that the singer didn’t have to be the center of attention -- he could stand off to the side
of the spotlight. I don’t know if it was just the passage of time or if my relationship with Joe had
anything to do with it -- or if Joe just got it out of his system- but whatever -- I think he was
finally ready to work with a lead singer again. Joe got into his playing with a vengeance and let me
do the singer thing. When we finally recorded the third album Joe just wanted to play guitar and
produce. He didn’t even try to record his great "First One's For Free." His wounds had healed. His
anger had faded and he didn’t have to prove his point anymore. I feel it was an important step
towards Joe and Aerosmith’s next chapter.
49] Crossfire: Do you feel that your wildness on stage and off took away from the music in any way...or is that just ROCK AND ROLL?
Cowboy Mach Bell: Well, yeah, it probably did take away a bit from the music. Joe pretty much summed it up in the Aerosmith autobiography "Walk This Way.” "It was just for fun, a good time band, no illusions about the group going straight to the top. They (Hargrove, Pet and Mach) were young guys who didn’t give a shit, like wild men, fuckin’ pirates. Get in the van and go. And I was free. I’d missed the whole "legendary" life of the rock star. We went out on the road and I went berserk for the first time in my life. Wine, women and song. Exotic dancers. A Playboy Bunny. I’d never done this crazy stuff before. . .and Joe’s not telling the half of it Scott -- it was major league pagan pillaging in the Project, as good and better than any of that ‘‘Hammer Of The Gods’’ or Stones ‘‘STP’’ stuff we read about. It kind of blows me away, but whenever I run into great rockers –– like when former JPP singer Charlie Farren called me today, or even when I run into world renowned bizarro Steven Tyler –– they always take a step back like ‘‘whoaa -- I can’’t believe I’m face to face with the "legendary" non-stop party monster Mach Bell!’’ My reputation is really bad. So even though in hindsight, I wish I’d buckle down and come up with a hit record for the Project –– I think I helped produce what Joe Perry (and the rest of us) were really trying to create at that point. Are any of you old enough to know about Frank Sinatra and his "Rat Pack"? The JPP was a rock and roll Rat Pack, starring Joe Perry in the role of the worldly ringleader Sinatra. Mach Bell as the crooning ladies man, drink in hand Dean Martin. Danny Hargrove, singing and dancing as the lovable Sammy Davis Jr. and Joe Pet as Joey Bishop, clowning in the back, eating the leftovers. We kind of looked like ‘em too, except that instead of dinner jackets we should have worn straitjackets.
50] Crossfire: I MUST ask this one...Do you think the JPP will ever play again?
Cowboy Mach Bell: According to Joe Perry the answer is yes. Let’’s travel back in time to the early morning hours of Sunday, May 13th, 1984. The Project is heading home to Boston for the last time. We had finished the final show in New Haven, and, to the dismay of our party hungry fans, hopped back in the van and headed straight back home. Up front, Rick Semerjian, the latest in a long line of JPP road managers was at the wheel. Joey Kramer, who played drums with the Project that night, was riding in Joe’s customary shotgun seat. Billie and Joe Perry were cuddled together on the bench seat. In the way back seat, I sat with my comrade bassist Danny Hargrove. As we sped east on the Mass Pike, memories of the past two and a half years were flooding my mind. The Las Vegas adventure, Joe’s collapse in Fayetteville, our album release party aboard the Boston Tea Party Ship, the lost week- end in New Orleans, the bust in Manitee County, Florida, the Hollywood parties, the video shoot and recording sessions, the time Joe and I tried to hitch hike to a gig together, and on and on. . .I looked at Danny, he was sitting silently, I knew he was hurting like I was. For Danny and me this was a funeral procession, our beloved Joe Perry Project was still warm, but dead, and over. We knew that in the morning we would wake up mere mortals once again –– no longer apart of the Joe Perry traveling sideshow. Meanwhile, up in front no one was mourning -- it seemed the Project was already a distant memory. Rick and Joey were loudly going on about how they were going to mike the drums for tomorrow’s Aerosmith rehearsal. Billie was giggling as Kramer and Joe traded tales about their contacts and pals in the Aero-world. I looked at Danny and could see his eyes were red and moist. I was about to start bawling like a baby. Is this how it ends? Danny and I had already been totally forgotten in the back of the bus. Worst of all was knowing that our leader, this guy who had given us both the greatest break anyone could hope for, and that we loved dearly. This guy we had traveled half way around the world with and ate breakfast with every morning, was leaving us both behind. If you‘re in Joe’s band, or if you are his woman, than you get to see Joe. Otherwise, good luck. Finally we pulled through the Allston tolls, into Cambridge. We crossed the Charles River; I glanced up at the HoJo Hotel where Aerosmith would be practicing in a few hours I just tried to hold in my emotions. We dropped off Kramer; "see ya at rehearsal" said Joe. Danny looked away, he would be the last to get dropped off, and he lived a couple miles up the road. "I'll call you tomorrow", I whispered. Danny clutched my hand. Thank goodness I had Danny for a support group –– we were both about to go through a very long, very tough fall back to reality. The van swung onto Broadway. I lived with Julia at 354. Joe was living a few blocks up with Billie at 399. The van swung to the curb, I grabbed my gig bag and said a quick "good luck" to everyone and hopped out onto the sidewalk. Joe followed me out into the night air. "Hey Cowboy" I looked up at Joe. He finally realized the pain I was in. I managed to blurt out a "Thanks for everything Joe, it’s been great knowing you" and turned quickly away. Joe grabbed my shoulder and pulled me close. He looked me in the eye and said, "listen man, it's not over. We will play together again. I've got a lot of work to do now -- but I guarantee –– someday, somehow, the Project will play again.
