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KISS INTERVIEW IN "GUITAR WORLD" OCTOBER 1998

BY ALAN DI PERNA

THE SIGHT OF THESE FOUR NAME TOGETHER IN THE SAME SENTENCE IS ENOUGH TO SEND SHIVERS OF EXCITEMENT UP AND DOWN THE LOYAL RANKS OF THE KISS ARMY.


For nearly two decades,the original KISS lineup was split in two,irreparably,it seemed.In the early Eighties,lead guitarist ACE FREHLEY and drummer PETER CRISS exited the group under a cloud of drug problems and bad vibes, leaving bassist GENE SIMMONS and guitarist PAUL STANLEY to march on with a few different KISS personnel configurations. Judging from all the venom spit in the press, it seemed like the four KISS originals would never again get together on anything like amicable terms.

But in 1996 longtime KISS fans learned to never say never as ACE,PETER,GENE & PAUL got up on the same stage perform a few songs on MTV's Unplugged. This surprise reunion led to a record-breaking KISS tour. From there, the four members of KISS entered the recording studio together to record the first batch of all-new materialby the original KISS lineup since 1980. They call the album PSYCHO CIRCUS, and declare themselves damn well pleased with the disc.
"We wanted to recreate the vibe of DESTROYER(Kiss' hugely successful 1976 album)"says GENE SIMMONS. "We weren't interested in doing anything trendy.We're not intersted in the music sene. We don't care whether this is percived as a today record, tomorrow record or a yesterday record. We don't want to be percived as a part of anything. We simply wanted to make a KISS record."
The album is just the tip of marketing iceberg that includes the ongoing PSYCHO CIRCUS comic book and action figure toys,as well as a KISS movie, KISS car and the first 3-D rock tour in history.The makeup's back on and with CRISS & FREHLEY drug and booze free KISS are stripped down to fighting weight.
"I'm down to 170 pounds,"ACE confirms. "I can't belived it. When I was drinking I was up to 198. Alcohol puts a lot of weight on you.But that's all over now. For this new tour,I'll be wearing my DESTROYER costume, with the black V and tubes on the shoulders. I tried on my old DESTROYER costume from 20 years ago and it actually fit. The seamstress couln't belive it!"
An exuberant mood prevailed when the three axe-wielding members of KISS-FREHLEY,STANLEY & SIMMONS-got togheter for a chat with Guitar World. Fair Warning: the following interview is not politically correct od members of the Moral Magority.Anything goes once you enter the PSYCHO CIRCUS. So lock up your moms and hide the viagra.
These almost-fifty adolescents are out to prove thet they can still ROCK & ROLL ALL NIGHT & PARTY (drug-free, of course) EVERY DAY.

GUITAR WORLD
How does life on the road in the Nineties differ from the way life on the road was back in the Seventies?
GENE SIMMONS
Not al all. I fuck my brains out. I fuck everything that moves. and if it doesn't move, we work something out.
PAUL STANLEY
It' exactly the same.Eveything's available, if you want it. The stakes are much higher. For anybody to deny the new,lethal slant that's been put on promiscuity of impulsive sex is either full of false bravado or insane. So that's certainly put a damper on things. But nothing's changed in the sense of what's available. Frame is power. And power is sexy. And sexy leads to sex.
GENE SIMMONS
Althought the society of groupies has ceased to be what it once was. They don't have self-respect anymore. Groupies used to be proud to be groupies. There was a magazine called Star just for groupies and it was a pride thing. Girls smelled like girls, walk like girls,talked like girls. And they were great: tight, lifted,separate. all facing in my general direction.
ACE FREHLEY
I remember in the seventies,we had a roomful of groupies every night: 25 girls. Now for me, it's just not the same. I'm married with an 18-year-old daughter. After a show, I can't wait to get back to my hotel room and play with my computer.
GUITAR WORLD
A lot of the songs on PSYCHO CIRCUS, like "I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE OF ROCK & ROLL" and "YOU WANT THE BEST", come off as celebrations of KISS itself. It's almost a rock equivalent of SINATRA doing "My Way".
GENE SIMMONS
Interseting. I'v never heard it put that way.But I get it.Yeah,I think you're right.
PAUL STANLEY
As long as it's not like Sinatra doing "September Song," which means you're at the end of your career. But I'm damn proud to be where we are today. Twenty and some years after we started, we did the biggest grossing tour of '96-'97. Playing to two million people a year after not being together fo 18 years--yeah, that's something to sing about. And that's what we whanted to celebrate on the album.
GUITAR WORLD
So the intent really was to say," We did it our way."
GENE SIMMONS
The intent is simply to be quintessential KISS. And quintessential is at least as big as a gymnasium. It's one of those big words. The idea, basically, is to stop playing games once and far all. We've played our share of games in the past. Disco came along. We wanted a disco hit, so we got one ("I Was Made for Lovin, You," from 1979's Dynasty.) Whatever was happening, we wanted a slice of it. But ulimately it comes down to we're either KISS or we're not. So let's just do what we do best and the rest of it be damned. And when we go out there on the PSYCO CIRCUS tour, we're gonna raise the stakes again. Single-handedly. The millennium is coming and all that cornball stuff. And we're gonna do the first 3D live tour ever. The first one is gonna be at Dodger Stadium in Los Angeles on Hallween. But in every city on the tour, you're gonna enter the arena or stadium where we're playing and get a pair of 3D shades. You put 'em on and we're gonna fuckin' take you a-w-a-y. Like nothing you've ever seen or heard before. It's gonna be interactive. You're gonna be able to point an things are gonna pop. There' ll be things over your head, there'll be things under your seat. You won't know where it's gonna go, what it's gonna be.
GUITAR WORLD
What is all this costing you guys?
GENE SIMMONS
Millions. but we're rich! We've been rich a long time. I'm not saying this to be arrogant, but because I'm blessed. We are all privileged, and this is the least we can do for our fans. If you have enough money to throw a good party, why not throw the biggest party anyone has ever seen? Costs millions? So what. we got millions. The CD itself is a 3-D CD, too. Every Page of the booklet is gonna have some Holographic 3-D effect. When you take the CD and you put in into yout computer you get instant acces to our web site. No having to wait and type "com this, dot com that." I hate that. I wanna find the guy who invented words like "font" and "mouse." We have to find this prick so I can beat the shit out of him.
GUITAR WORLD
Who came up with the 3-D idea?
GENE SIMMONS
Actually, our manager, Doc McGhee. He'd always wanted to do something 3-D in the past with other bands he's worked with. But it never fit with anybody esle. As soon as we heard the 3-d idea we went, "Oh, that's KISS." We started talking about the PSYCHO CIRCUS idea and I went nuts. I immediately called up (comic book artist) Todd McFarlane and said, "You can have your own comic book. We'll put it together ourselves. I want action toys, too. Let's go where no band has gone before." There's gonna be a KISS movie, too. We're doing it with New Line Cinema. Looks like we'll start shooting in october. The director will be Adam Rifkin, the writer of Mouse Hunt and Small Soldiers. He's a major KISS fan. Knows everything.
GUITAR WORLD
Do you see any parallels between KISS and the Spice Girls?
PAUL STANLEY
Only that i'd like to fuck them all. Hey Baby Spice, Scary Spice, Posh Spice, Sporty Spice--jump on Old Spice! Do I see a parallel? I know what the Spice Girl are doing. It's a formula and it work great. Music aside, it's the Beatles. It's any band where you have four or five members and each member appeals to a different audience. The group gets big, but each member has their own following, which only makes the band that much bigger. Sure, i understand the Spice Girls. We were in England when they first got big over there. And They had success written all over them.
GENE SIMMONS
I would rather listen to the Spice Girls any day of the week than some band dressed like lumberjacks trying to convince me that they're suicidal and depressed when they're young, healthy, rich, famous and getting all the pussy they want. I'm sorry, I don't buy that. For me, the Spice Girls have got much more credibility than any band trying to pretend they believe the world is all doomy and glum. Bullshit. America is enjoying its greatest financial success ever. There are no world war. We're closing in on some major diseases. It's getting better and better.
GUITAR WORLD
Rock took itself very seriously durind the grunge era. But now that's all over, and people seem to crave entertainnment: packing and marketing. Rock also took itself very seriously during the late Sixties hippie era. But by the early Seventies, when KISS came along, hippedom had died out, and people were just looking for a bit of flash and fun. Do you feel like the current moment in rock is kind of like when KISS started?
GENE SIMMONS
We were very anti-hippie. And I still am. It was the same thing (as grunge) really: privileged white kids deciding that Mon and Dad's money is no good and they wanna dress down with ripped jeans and the whole thing. Which is fine. Wear anything you want , but you gotta gat a fucking job. Hippies didn't have jobs, so I hate them. The manifesto of hippiedom basically was to be a schlump. The whole hippie thing was turn on, tune in, drop out. Really? Who's gonna collect the garbage? And drugs? That was the most lunatic behavior. Timothy Leary winds up being the godhead of this lunatic fringe. Anything that prevents your faculties from working is the ememy. I'v yet to use chemical or get drunk in my life. And I refuse to as a personal choice.
GUITAR WORLD
Really? Never?
GENE SIMMONS
Everybody says they can't belived it. Which is sad, actually. Because the inference is, "Oh, everybody's gotten high gotten drunk." How sad our generation. A whole generation that's fucking numb. I mean, even having to go to sleep bothers me--all that wasted time when you're doing nothing! Even when i take a shit I have a pad and pen with me. My phone and fax machine are right there. I hate just sitting around.
GUITAR WORLD
So KISS were never hippies?
ACE FREHLEY
I used to hang out with a bunch of hippies in Poe Park in the Bronx, where Edgar Allen Poe used to live. We'd drink beer and smoke pot. I was a hippie too, sort of. Some of my friends were dropping acid, which scared me. I went from the greaser stage, with my hair in a pompadour, to the mod look. I was more mod than hippie. I didn't wear love beads and all that. Once I bought Fresh Cream and Jimi Hendrix's Are You Experienced?, I just completely fell in love with that sound and look. But that wasen't the hippie look. That was the mod, rock look.
GUITAR WORLD
The Swinging London look.
ACE FREHLEY
Yeah. I was never a big Beatles fan, but I always loved the Stones. I was always a rebel and the Stones were rebels, getting busted for drugs and all. I thought it was cool. One of the things that i regret is that a lot of kids in the Seventies thought it was cool that I was getting high all the time. I didn't hide it. I was always having car wrecks and throwing TVs out of windows. But what I regret is there's probably a couple of fans who used to emulate me. I used to sing about alcohol--I wrote "Cold Gin." And today I still feel bad about it.
GUITAR WORLD
Speaking of the old days, I'm sure you guys remember playing the Daisy (a small rock club in suburban Long Island, New York Where KISS played some of their earliest gigs.) It'll probably surprise you to hear that I played there too.
ACE FREHLEY
Get out of here. When?
GUITAR WORLD
Around tha same time as you guys.
PAUL STANLEY
No kidding! You know, the funniest thing about that place was That the drinks--alcoholic drink--were 35 cents. I would drink probably 10 or 15 seven & sevens: SevenUp with Seagram 7 (whiskey). I don't know what they put in that stuff, because the only thing it made me do was to pee a lot. It sure as hell wasn't getting me loaded. You can't get a whole lot of alcohol for 35 cents.
ACE FREHLEY
One night at the Daisy, we were experimenting with make up. I walked on stage with my whole face silver. Like the Tin Man in The Wizard of Oz. I was half in the bag before i even got on stage. We didin't have a lot of money back in those days. Peter covered his drums with mylar to make them look like they were made out of metal. I'd get down on my knees and do a guitar solo. And I remember looking at my reflection in the drums and laughing my ass off. Just saying, "How ridiculous is this? Four clowns." But the music was there. I still love "DEUCE." It's my favorite KISS song. We used to open with that. The Daisy was where our makeup really evolved. And thank God it was somewhere out in the sticks. Amityville. If it was in Manhattan, I don't know if it would have made it. We might have gotten booed off the stage.
GUITAR WORLD
Did KISS ever go through a drag phase? I remember there was a photo of you outside the Daisy and your look quite effeminate.
PAUL STANLEY
Well, yeah, we were in fairly femme, glam kind of makeup. But we were never in drag. That was just a brief period, anyway. It didn't work for us. We looked like Linebackers who's stolen their wives' makeup. See, the New York scene at that time was really kind of unisexual. It was an outgrowth of glam and things that had been going on in England. The New York scene, when we first started, was the New York Dolls and Wayne County, a transvestite who ultimately became a transsexual.
GUITAR WORLD
Yeah, Jayne.
GENE SIMMONS
So our first attempt at makeup was kinda bad New York Dolls, which was also bad David Bowie and all that other stuff that had gone before. Our only real reference point was the New York Dolls, who we loved, conceptually.
PAUL STANLEY
Gene and I went to see the Dolls ate the Hotel Diplomat (in Manhattan). For historians or anyone else out there, I must say that they sucked. Horribly.
GENE SIMMONS
As soon as they started playing, Paul and I looked at each other and said, "We're gonna kill ' em. We're gonna slice ' em and dice ' em." And we were fans!
PAUL STANLEY
Even though they sucked musically, they were so undeniable in their image and delivery. They were just so strong. And we realized," Maybe we can play better than them, but we can't beat them at their own game." The glam look wasn't very convincing on us. I mean my neck is about the size of one of those guys' waists.
GENE SIMMONS
These were little, skinny white boys at 5'2" and 5'4". On them , glam makeup looked cool. Meanwhile I'm 6'2".
PAUL STANLEY
So we said, "let's go black and silver."
GENE SIMMONS
We said, "If we're gonna di this (makeup) thing, the only way we can do it is to ba ourselves. Basically, that meant turning inwards and saying, "This is who I am. The makeup is an expression of whaterver's going on underneath." We still put on our own makeup today, as we did then. None of us had training in makeup design or anything. We just started fooling around. What came out for me was an expression of the superhero/horror/science fiction sort of genre that I'd always admired and still do. Paul's was kind of the rock star, Eddie Cochran, I-wanna-be-Elvis-routine--magnified. And Ace had his space stuff and Peter his cat stuff. That's just what happened. Nodody sat down and said, "Okay, you're gonna be the weird guy, you're gonna be the cool guy."
ACE FREHLEY
When Gene gets on stage, he's not facking it. He really becomes that monster. If you tried to talk to him when he's spitting that blood, he'd growl at you. He just really goes away. And he never has done drugs and doesn't drink. He just loves that character and get into it completly. He told me, "Ace, when you weren't in the group and I had to wear the feminine makeup, I didn't feel comfortable in it." (KISS reverted to glam look in the early Eightes.) The monster is his thing. No one does it better.
GUITAR WORLD
Did those platform shoes cause any injuries before you got used to them?
ACE FREHLEY
I still have problems with the platform shoes. In the Seventies, even when I was sober I had problems with the platforms. Going up and down stairs is very difficult. In the Seventies I used to fall once every four or five shows. If I felt myself falling down I would kind of go into a roll or something. Paul & Gene were great about it. They'd come over and play to me and make it look like it was part of the act.
GUITAR WORLD
Are there any occupational hazards that go with having to stick your tongue out all the time, Gene?
GENE SIMMONS
The only bad part is that it's similar to being a girl who's known for having big tits. When a girl walks in with very large tits, that's all guys ever talk about. In the same way, I'm know as the guy with the really long tongue. When I meet girls socially or otherwise--even in the most innocent social situation--they'll say,"Can you stick out your tongue?" That's all they wanne see. They're not interesed in the rest of me. Just the tongue. But it's not really a hazard. It's more a blessing. In the same way, girls with big tits should realized that having big tits is blessing.
GUITAR WORLD
It's a well-documented fact that you often had sex with groupies when you were still in your stage makeup. But did you ever have sex with someone who was wearing KISS makeup?
GENE SIMMONS
Oh, sure. Not with the guys in the band! (laughs) But with girls, sure. Everybody enjoys fantasy, you know. But I'll tell you the most bizarre thing--if I can. Now, we'd seen girls with KISS tattoos before. But there was one who had my face tattooed on her inner thighs in such a way that the open mouth was, well, in the most obvious place you could imagine: where the phrase, "Gene, go fuck yourself" was very apropos. It was a strange experience, I'll tell you that. 'Cause you sort of wanted to look. But then you though of all the pain she must have through to get all those...pardon the expression...pricks as the tattoos were being done.
GUITAR WORLD
Joe Perry once said he regretted doing so much dope in the Seventies because he wasn't up for the sex half the time. Is that what's helped Gene and Paul stay off drugs all these years?
PAUL STANLEY
Absolutly. Sex? Bring it on. And I wanna be totally conscious. It always baffled me thet everyone would say "Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll" at a certain point in the Seventies. I was saying, "You keep the drugs. I just want the sex." I remember once I was getting into bed with somebody and she said, "Do you want a Quaalude?" And I said, "Why? I want to remember this tomorrow." I mean, sex is not a spectator sport. You shouldn't be trying to remember it. It should always be so good, or so bad, that you can't get it out of your mind. I wanna remember everyone. And it's not impossible. I feel badly for Joe. But I'm smiling.
GUITAR WORLD
Were any of the songs on PSYCHO CIRCUS written specifically for the comic book or any of the other outside stuff?
PAUL STANLEY
No. But as soon as we knew PSYCHO CIRCUS would be the title of the album, I wrote the song "PSYCHO CIRCUS" to be the opening track on the album and the opening song for the live show. I like the idea of writing a song that introduces an album with a vibe and sets the tone for everything to come. I tried to do that with "Detroit Rock City" (from Destroyer) and a few other songs. But nothing was written with the comic book in mind. You gotta start with a great album, not with the idea that it's detachable comic book or you can blow it up and it becomes a hat. It all comes down to the music. Everything else is the icing on the cake.
GUITAR WORLD
How long did it take to make the album?
PAUL STANLEY
Recording probably took only three months. Writing took a while longer. It took me a while to get started. That's usually how it is. I'll start writing and come up with things I feel aren't right. And then there'll be a song that really captures what the whole album should be like. And that was "PSYCHO CIRCUS." Once I had that, I had a blueprint. Then Gene came in with his perspective on what the album should be and that was great too. We feed off each other. And we wanted a great ballad for Peter to sing, so Bob Ezrin and I wrote "I Finally Found My Way."
GUITAR WORLD
How did Paul and Ace approach dividing the guitar work?
PAUL STANLEY
I've always considered myself a rhythm guitar player, but I'm not a half-bad lead guitar player. So on this album there were a few songs where it was just natural for me to play lead because I had a real vision of the song from the ground up. "PSYCHO CIRCUS" was like that. I also played lead guitar on "RAISE YOUR GLASSES" and one or two others.
ACE FREHLEY
Paul had done a guide solo that he thought was really good. And I thought so, too. I don't have any ego Problems with Paul playing guitar. And he doesn't have any problems with my playing guitar. we're both good guitar players. And Paul's really Improved a lot over the years as a lead guitarist. Even back in the Destroyer days, we were doing harmony leads on "DETROIT ROCK CITY." What's flattering to me is, a lot of time when Paul plays solos, his style is similar to mine.
PAUL STANLEY
In many ways, my playing and Ace's are both based in the same genre and the same heroes ans influences. I don't think you'd confuse one of us with the other. And yet our styles are both very compatible.
ACE FREHLEY
Paul really helped me with "INTO THE VOID," a song I wrote that was originally rejected. Gene said, "The riff doesn't grab me." But I tought it was a great, catchy guitar riff. I really had to fight to get that song on the album. We went into the studio and rehearsed it with Peter and eveybody got involved. Paul helped me rearrange it a little, to open up the choruses. It was his idea just to hit a droning chord and then come in with that rhythm part later on. Whereas, originally, I was just repeating the rhythm part. He didn't want any writer's credit for it, but he probably deserves five or ten percent writer's credit for adding the droning chord and helping me rearrange it. Paul also came up with that high guitar part that goes through the chorus, which I think is brilliant. When we work togeter as a team, we come up with the best stuff. It's one of the better songs on that album.
GUITAR WORLD
"WITHIN" is kind of psychedelic, with all those backwards guitar.
GENE SIMMONS
Actually, I wrote "WITHIN" and a song called "CARNIVAL OF SOULS" for the last studio record with (guitarist) Bruce (Kulick) and (drummer) Eric (Signer). Neither of those songs made it on that record. Although CARNIVAL OF SOULS did up being the title of the album. Another song on PSYCHO CIRCUS, "YOU WANTED THE BEST," started out as a chorus idea I had in 1977, im Madison Wisconsin. It was originally called "Just Give Me Love" and was about life on the road: "You give me this, you give me that. That's not what i want. Just give me love." That became old hat for me. And all of a sudden "YOU WANTED THE BEST" turned into a dialog between the band members. I started reading our old interviews--how the four of us all talked about each other when Ace and Peter were out of the band. The nasty things we said. And started taking some of those lines out of our interviews--"You're just a fallen star." "Don't tell me what to do." "Who do you think you are?"--and I put all that in the song. 'Cause I remember when my favorite band, the Beatles, broke up, I was devastated to read some of the terrible things Lennon and McCartney said about each other. So "YOU WANT THE BEST" is basically an homage th the fans. The verse lyrics are about our differences within the band. And the pre-chorus is the fans, who say, "Shut up, guys. We want you to be together. That's what the songs are about." (quoting) "The fans wanted us to play. We hear and obey."
GUITAR WORLD
'Cause that line, "We hear and obey"--isn't that the Dalek's used to say? (The Daleks were robotic villains in the British scifi TV series Dr. Who.)
GENE SIMMONS
You got it! It's interesting that that show never really popped in America. Very successful comic books, though.
GUITAR WORLD
Paul, I understand you worked with (songwriter) Holly Knight on a couple of tunes.
PAUL STANLEY
I took a few of my songs as far as I could; and then I was not at all opposed to bringing in people I really respect to help fully realized them. Holly and I go back more than 20 years. She's a great songwriter and an especially great lyricist. And Holly had recently moved back into town (L.A.). So she was immediately the one I thought of. Holly and I knocked out the lyrics and fine-tuned some of the melodies on "I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE OF ROCK AND ROLL," and we did the lyrics on "RAISE YOUR GLASSES." To me, no matter who you co-write with, it's your song. If it doesn't sound like your song, then you didn't do your job. I'm not opposed to co-writers, as long as everybody knoes who's driving the car. My idea on songs like "I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE STATE OF ROCK AND ROLL," and "PSYCHO CIRCUS" was to write songs that were not only anthemic, but also very cinematic and big in scope, with tremendous depth and width. I wanted something that was very theatrical, visual and atmospheric.
GUITAR WORLD
On top of everything else, there gonna be a KISS car. too?
GENE SIMMONS
You bet. We're designing a $75,000 KISS car which is going to be commercially: 450 horsepower and a partridge in a fucking pear three. You'll be able to sit in your car, plug your guitar right into the dashboard amplifier and play. The best. We're foolish enough to go where no band has gone before. I want it all. I want KISS cola. I want my own country. The country of KISS. I want my own religion. KISSTIANITY! I like the sound of that. Hey, what's Christ go that I haven't got?

***THE END***

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