This debate concerned actor Media bias, Mr Enronomics Bush, the "no spin zone", and lots of stuff. It started with a story about Sean Penn, who said something politically incorrect that involved insulting talk show host Bill O'Rielly. For some reason the media found this newsworthy
(because it has nothing to do with Enron, I guess). The bits in italics are my bitc - I mean, opponents.
Bill O-Whiney cries like a beaten bully
He can dish it out but not take it.
They can make up porno stories about the most ethical administration in history on their "news" channel all day, but if some entertainer thinks he is allowed to state an opinion, Faux News panics.
My only complain with Sean Penn is that he forgot to mention mr Fiddle while the WTC Burns, Bush(laden). Bush himself agrees with Pat Robertson's (and the Taliban's) claim that Americans deserve to die falling flaming from skyscrapers because they don't pray enough.
At his latest gated-community-town-hall meeting (with selected audience) he said "I think the thing that -- the prayer that I would like America is to ask for is
to pray for God's protection for our land and our people, to pray against...
-- that there's a shield of protection that protects the country." Gee, if you test that spiritual shield, better make sure you put homing beakons on the missiles like you did with the faith-based missile shield tests, okay?
Perhaps he thought that praying would be more effective that intercepting the planes on 9/11 - when he saw film of the first plane hitting the building (even though that film wasn't discovered and released until much later that day) he decided to continue with his photo-op. He said, "On the morning of September 11th, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this
plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."
Now, this is a guy who was supposed to have been a National Guard pilot and a jet airliner hitting a skyscraper smack dab head-on on a crystal clear morning is "a terrible mistake?!" Is that his excuse for doing nothing? Looks like there is a consequence to putting idiots in charge!
He then said "I thought, 'If America is under attack, we'd get 'em!" - yes, get em after your photo-op. Don't worry Mr Bush, most of those people who fell flaming to their deaths while you were posing didn't vote for you anyway.
"Sean, the President isn't elected"
And that is all you need to say.
"elitist ultra-rich"
Ah yes, class warfare. You're just jealous because he actually earned his money, instead of inheriting millions like welfare-baby Bush. As for you, maybe you should just work harder, you whiner.
"paid to amuse us...Just like O'Reilly"
So you admit that Faux News is not news at all, but just so much escapist fiction? (More on faux news at )
Class warfare conservatives cry and sob
"out of the country that's been so AWFUL to them!"
Okay loser, I will explain this nice and slow to you - YOU DO NOT OWN AMERICA. 500,000 more voted for Gore, millions voted for Nader. AMERICA IS A LIBERAL NATION, we outnumber you by MILLIONS. Just like Regan when he thought Bruce Springsteen supported him - you think that if you see a flag you can just steal and pose for the cameras. Well if someone has to go, I suggest the REPUBLICAN MINORITY can to to LOW-TAX FAITH BASED AFGANISTAN or how about GUN RIGHTS FREE MARKET SOMOLIA.
"How wonderful it is when "stars" like O'Donnell, Streisand, and Penn wander down from the hills to enlighten us Proletariates"
That last word of yours is straight out of Marx! Funny how when the top 2% are taxed of some of their inheritence (aka their billion-dollar welfare cheques) you guys sob and whine and cry until the snot runs down your chin, yet when someone who WORKED FOR THEIR MONEY thinks that they have a RIGHT TO AN OPINION you guys drag out the guillutine.
"Maybe he should do a "Tour of Duty" with the USO at Camp Rhino. Let him make his remarks to our fellow Americans risking their lives to take these scumbag terrorists out."
AL Franken, the author of "Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot" does USO and is quite popular.
"Penn has played a tough soldier, but wouldn't last two minutes againsts a REAL special forces member"
Uh let's see this soldier of yours. oh, I see, he is your imaginary friend. Obviously he is not Bush, because BUSH WENT AWOL DURING WARTIME.
Your imaginary friend is also not Dennis, Dick Armey, Tom Delay, Trent, VP Cheney, John Ashcroft, Newt Gingrich, Bob Dornan or Rush Limbaugh - all of them are draft dodgers.
Soldiers KNOW that REAGAN/BUSH FUNDED THE TALIBAN, SADDAM HUSSIEN, IRAN, the CONTRA's and a million other death squads. They know about GULF WAR SYNDROME, the price they payed so that Bush Sr. could put dictators back in Kuwait and leave Hussien in Iraq.
"Do you think George W. Bush cares what Hollywood thinks of him?"
Did that snuff-film he helped produce, "the hitcher" win any Oscars?
http://detnews.com/2000/politics/0009/17/a04-120288.htm
700 club host or Bin Laden quiz
This should be EASY for the republicans. You should all get 100% on the first try.
http://www.funnystrange.com/quiz/index.asp
They might as well blacklist a janitor
"just like Bill O'Reilly is free to say what he wants.."
You might want to check with a libel lawyer. If I were to buy a respected newspaper, put your picture on the cover and claim that your were a pedophile, you could and should sue my butt off.
The difference is that Sean Penn is just a guy who happens to have an opinion - notice he never made any statements, (like "Bill O-Reilly impregnated a black crack whore" - a lie talk show hosts made up about Clinton) all he said was just what he thought of things. His beliefs have no effect on anyone, he reads lines written for fictional characters. Bill O'Reilly is supposed to be a journalist - when he says things, people belive them to be true. Journalists are supposed to be "balanced and fair" (Faux news' own slogan) and are supposed to not just make stuff up. And he has influence. And example of this influence:
When Clinton tried to fight a war against terrorism, O'Reilly, talk show hosts, and the republicans who mindlessly parrot them said he was "wagging the dog" - they said that the first war on terrorism was a distraction against their crusade to find out about his bedroom habits. THEY SAID IT WAS MORE IMPORTANT TO PRY INTO PEOPLES PRIVATE LIVES THAN TO DO SOMETIME, *ANYTHING*, TO STOP TERRORISM.
If Clinton had invaded Afganistan, that would be "more proof he has something to hide". The media would say it is "media bias" that there is coverage of Bin Laden's trial, instead of somebody making up dirty stories about Clinton's bedroom.
The whole point of the impeachent was "legal harrassment" - constant sueing to waste the time and money of the victim. If Clinton had not been busy defending against Whitewater and other niucence lawsuits, he could have organized an invation of Afganistan and put bayonets in the bellies of the Taliban back when nobody could find Afganistan on a map.
Well congradulations republicans, thanks to your LIES and LAWYERS Americans have been torn to pieces by explotions, died slowly of anthrax, threw themselves flaming from skyscrapers, where buried alive, trapped and slowly dying of dehydration.
So the end situation is that somebody thought he had a right to an opinion, then the CONservative bias media decided to print his opinions everywhere, and now conservatives want to Blacklist him just like Witchhunt McCarthy.
http://www.morons.org/feature/whosaidit.php
The republican-owned media can spend 8 years makeing up lies, (and one participating in coverups - )but when one guy with no influence - an actor for god's sake, he has no more effect on the media than a janitor would in the Faux News building - they run crying to mommy, calling for blacklists and making assasination threats right in this thread ( http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?action=m&board=37138446&tid=apseanpenn&sid=37 138446&mid=64 ).
And one more comment, if "terrorists" is such a dirty name, talk show hosts and every conservative can hardly debate for two minutes before they call their opponent a "communist" or "comucrat". What do the vicitims of communism think of that?
Like all bullies, the CON MEDIA are wimps.
"Bill O'Reilly may be many things, but he is no wimp. "
First of all, he is such a wimp he DENIES BEING A CONSERVATIVE.
He is too chicken to admit that he LIED about recieving the Peabody award.
"Never said it. You can't find a transcript where I said it." - O'Reilly Factor, 3/13/01
But on his May 19, 2000 broadcast, he repeatedly told a guest who brought up his tabloid past: "We won Peabody Awards. . . . We won Peabody awards. . . ."
He is also too chicken to admit he lied about his background: his mother told a reporter her son actually grew up in Westbury, Long Island, a "middle-class suburb a few miles from Levittown," where he attended a private school (Washington Post, 12/13/00). His father's $35,000 income in 1978 is equivalent to over $90,000 today in inflation-adjusted dollars.
More on this lying wuss at:
http://www.fair.org/extra/0108/oreilly.html
"He has the courage to confront anyone to their face about any subject he finds controversial."
And then interupt them with "that's YOUR opinion!"
(5/1/01) "That's your opinion!"
(7/18/00), "All right, that's your opinion!"
(1/3/00), "Well, that's your opinion!"
(7/22/99) "What's your opinion?...Well, that's your opinion, though!"
If he was so tough, he would not need to interupt all of the time. He would not need to be on a channel where the republican guests outnumber democrats by 8 to one. HE is a bully, and bullies are always wimps.
"I'm always saying that I'm afaid some nut is going to shoot him "
Wow, what factual sources you have. You know, I'm always saying stuff too. But nobody in this threat has threatened to assasinate him, while someone in this threat HAS threatened to assasinate Sean Penn.
"And if there is any truth to your accusation of a Republican controlled media, it's about damned time. We've been kept in the dark long enough by all the Liberal Democrat controlled medias. It's time we had a turn."
Okay, let's play a game. I will name a list of 62 people who have spent 8 years libelling Clinton.
To prove your statement, you must respond with a list of 63 people who spent 8 years libelling a republican president - you can go as far back into history as you like. Go ahead, call the Bible liberal-biased, you need all the head start you can get.
(Watch, he is going to say "everybody" - they always say that, they can never name a liberal pundit by name)
Pat Buchanan, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reily, Sean Hannity, The Beltway Boys, Brit Hume, Tony Snow, Juan Williams, Mara Liason, John McLaughlin, Chris "the Screamer" Russert, G. Gordon Liddy, "Dr" Laura, Michael Medved, Sam and Cokie, George Steffi, George Will, Bob Scheiffer, Tim Russert, John Hockenberry, Ollie North, Robert Novak, Paul Weyrich, Fred Barnes, Michael Barone, Richard Berke, Mona Charen, Linda Chavez, Maureen Dowd, Howard Fineman, Eva Von Zahn, David Gergen, Jonah Goldberg, Betsy Hart, Christopher Hitchens, David Horowitz, Brit Hume, Barbara Olson, Mike Isikoff, Michael Kelly, Mort Kondracke, Michael Medved, Dick Morris, Dee Dee Myers, Mike McCurry, Charley Reese, Geraldo Rivera, George Stephanopolous, Andrew Sullivan, Mort Zuckerman, Brian Williams, Wolf Blitzer, Bill Schneider, Candy Crowley, John Stossel, Howie Kurtz, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Peggy Noonan, Andrew Sullivan, William Safire...
(For a similar list, see
http://www.americanpolitics.com/20011221Bartcop.html)
And here are the owners of the media - yes, real liberal-bias corporations here: http://www.promo.org
"And as for blaming Bush for 9-11, don't even go there! "
Wimp.
"This problem was brewing long before he ever started campaigning. "
Of course, because BIN LADEN WAS ARMED BY HIS FATHER! Along with Saddam Hussien, Iran etc. etc. Truman had a sign on his desk saying "the buck stops here" - not so for Mr. Photo op while America burns. The Bushes and Bin Ladens also have extensive business ties:
http://www.bushwatch.org/bushmoney.htm
http://www.bushwatch.org/attack.htm
More on the media:
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/
http://www.dailyhowler.com/
http://www.poynter.org/medianews/
"Well THATS YOUR OPINION!"
The astounding factless republicans
"I'm currently reading "The No Spin Zone" by Bill O'Reilly."
Give me a fact from it. The book DOES have facts in it, right? Do you know what a fact is? Here is a book you should read, _The Dictionary_
fact n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case" 2: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts" 3: an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell" 4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=fact
You have been giving me opinions:
opinion n 1: a personal belief that is not founded on proof or certainty; "my opinion differs from yours"; "what are your thoughts on Haiti?" syn: sentiment, persuasion, view, thought
http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=opinion
Here is an example of facts - scroll down this page to find major newspaper endorcements or Bush and Gore. There are 52 for Gore, and 138 for Bush. Show me the the other 78 newspapers to prove that the media is not biased to the right.
http://www.wheretodoresearch.com/Political.htm
"But don't hold your breath for this other guy to read it."
I have an idea, why don't you force me to read it. Take the FACTS from that book and put them in front of me, the same way that I take facts from my sources and put them in front of you (which you then ignore). You do have facts, don't you? Don't you?
"He's so hardcore liberal, his mind is clamped completely shut and rusted over."
Is my skull thick, or are you simply battering at it with a nerf bat? To name another right-wing BIASED show, let's play "hardball".
"I don't argue"
What are you afraid of? Are you a wimp like O-Rielly?
"with anyone who can honestly say that the poor Clinton's were "libeled" by every major news source"What, is it impossible to prove me wrong? Is it?
"since the invention of the printing press."
First of all, you just lied about my statement - I am challenging any republican (even ones who are too chicken to admit they are republicans) to name 63 liberal pundits, and I allowed you to go as far back in history as you like - as far as the bible, if you like, which BTW was written BEFORE the printing press was invented. (Nice little fact for you.) Gee, I wonder why you would have to lie about what I say? It's almost as if my wee little words are too much for you to handle.
I have put myself at a disadvantage by only choosing pundits from the last 8 years. I give you a head start of centuries, yet you STILL are too chicken to race.
"I was so ashamed of Bill and Hillary's behavior as the leaders of my country. Yet, Americans like him will defend them to the death."
Is that a threat? We have already had one death threat from a republican in this discussion, so I cannot be too sure.
"I voted for Bush, but if he starts getting BJ's in the oval office, I'll be the first one to admit my shame of him."
Newt Gingrich was getting jiggly with a former aide for years before he started his cronies on the Clinton impeachment jihad.
Guiliani was jellying the donut with his aide when he very vocally backed the Washington Repuglicans in the same scam.
No, I won't hold my breath.
Repug VS little girls - typical bullywimp
"I'm already pretty disappointed in the behavior of his immature daughters. I hope they stop their shenanigans."
Oh shut up, they did their time, leave them alone. Real TOUGH there, willing to pick on teenaged girls. And if you are attempting to trick people into thinking you are bipartisan, remember as young people and females, the Bush daughters are statistically most likely to be democrats.
"I can admit when my candidate has skeletons in the closet,"
You can admit when teenage girls have "skeletons" in their closet - what a tough man you are!
"some people won't admit their guy has done wrong even if an entire graveyard is unearthed beneath his house."
Is that a fact? Can I see some photos of the graveyard? (Can I see some photos of the trashed Whitehouse, for that matter). You Republicans spent 50,000,000 taxpayers dollars investigating Clinton (and NOT investigating terrorists), surely they could purchase a camera for that price! And if you are expecting me to prove my bipartisanship by picking on Chelsea Clinton, forget it.
To make this debate easier, I will post a score. For every exchange in which you fail to give me the names of 63 full-time left-wing mass-media pundits, I get one point.
The score is democrats 1, republicans who are too chicken to call themselves republicans 0.
(Please don't think I am insulting you personally, you are perfectly intelligent, as proven by your skillfull attempt to hide the fact that you are republican. I just think that your side has no facts to back up their assumptions, and when you have no facts, you have to be a wuss just to survive.)
(PS for more examples of what facts are, see
http://home.att.net/~resurgence/LiberalFAQ.htm )
"You call me a Republican in one paragraph, then you say I'm too chicken to admit I am one.
How do you know I'm Republican if I didn't admit I was one?
So what's the verdict? I thought calling Bush "my man" and posting that I voted for him was admittance that I am Republican. It's so hilarious that you thought I was "skillfully" trying to hide my affiliation. Seems there are many things you cannot see that are right before your eyes. There's another big assumption you've made about my posts, and since you want to play games so desperately, I'll let you try to figure out what it is.
I do this for amusement, not for a living. I don't spend hours researching and breaking down every line of other people's opinions. I don't want to play with you. You want to play a game where you make up all the rules and change them to suit your needs. Kind of bullyish sounding to me. Let's see, who else have we recently heard being accused of being a bully? Oh yeah, it was you calling Bill O'Reilly one! Ok, your turn. I just posted about 14 or 15 sentences, knock yourself out disproving them all. This is so much fun! LOL "
"I'm a Republican. You are so long winded. Got bored after three lines of reading."
Thank you for the graceful surrender
Ah, how I love a graceful surrender. Hours of research! Haha! Don't want to play my game! You think I debate for money! And the guy with the 3 line attention span! Tee hee. And yes, perhaps the attack of the Bush twins was not an attempt to appear bipartisan - maybe someone just likes to pick on young girls. Come to think of it, maybe you really are a democrat into self-flagellation. And O'Rielly, dispite being a repug on all issues, might feel so strongly about the death penalty that he votes Dem due to that issue alone. Who am I to guess? It would be wrong to attack someone after they surrendered. Time to talk issues.
"Are Neoism and the NWO related or the same concept? "
( For anyone wondering what this is about, he is refering to
http://www.oocities.org/arthursank/faq.html)
Neoism really has no definition as it is a word I simply made up myself. It refers to "neo-liberals" who are not liberal and "neo-conservatives" who are not conservatives. Neos have no values or religion other than their own, which has only one commandment: just follow the money. Here is an article that explains better than I can: http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/02/01/10_religion.html
"New World Order" also has no real definition, but generally refers to the loss of civil liberties under an empire of some sort. I tend to use the words interchangably...
"Hey, we actually have something in common, I think. I strongly opposed NAFTA. But, remember who signed it into law on December 8, 1993? Dear Bill. I may be wrong, but it appears you are anti-government, yet, you come across as staunch Democrat. What's your story?"
Now that's called reading between the lines. I never said Clinton was perfect, and being a democrat does not mean I want big government. The thing about stereotypes is that they say more about...
I had better not start ranting and break the truce. I mean, even Ari Fleischer admits that Clinton faced "partisan witch hunts and endless investigations." Well then, let's have our post-fight handshake quickly, I have to go spend "hours" in another discussion (preferably one people actually read). Cya!
Question: "Are you saying that Congress should only look into contacts between Enron and the administration if it also looks into contacts between Enron and Democrats? Or are you just saying that they shouldn't look into contacts between Enron and the administration at all? "
Ari "...I think the American people are going to say that this is just another fishing expedition, another endless investigation, the type that they've soured on over the last MANY YEARS."