Immortality
Muslim:-
The main reason Muslims reject Christianity is because it is irrational - based on the logical impossibility that a being can be both mortal and immortal at the same time.
Critic:-
I might rephrase the Christian position regarding Jesus as follows:-
(1) Jesus is "immortal" in the sense that he exists forever.
(2) Jesus was "mortal" in the sense that he was capable of suffering somatic termination (i.e. death), and did in fact suffer such.
The reason this position is not irrational is because the two positions do not contradict. Here death is not defined as the cessation of existence, but rather "somatic termination" (i.e. where the physical body attached to the immortal soul ceases to be a living biological organism). Note that Christianity affirms a dualist position (i.e. a separation between flesh and spirit, so to speak, e.g. cf. John 19:30).
Aside from being logically coherent, I also think that (1) and (2) can also be considered consistent with the Quran, on the grounds that they are not inconsistent with the Quran. And here I would define "inconsistent with the Quran" along the same lines as the formal logic definition of contradiction, e.g.: -
"A collection of statements is inconsistent with the Quran if, and only if, it is impossible for both the collection of statements and the Quran to be true at the same time."
Comment:-
(1) We are all immortal in so far as we are all to be resurrected.
(2) Jesus was mortal in that he was born, in the flesh and died like the rest of us.
There is, therefore, no difference in this respect between Jesus and any other human being.
But the reason for rejecting Christianity is mainly that it contradicts what the Quran says as well as its own Scriptures - that is, it is inconsistent with what is objectively true - that which God has told us through His Prophets. It is, therefore, false, not in all respects, but in those in which it is inconsistent with reality, reason and experience.
Critic:-
You seem to be agreeing with me that those two positions are not logically inconsistent (i.e. they do not contradict one another). And it seems you agree that those two positions are not contradicted by orthodox Islamic belief. That was my sole argument (i.e. in no way was I claiming that because Jesus satisfies those two points, that necessarily makes him divine - I was merely noting that the concept of a being, such as Jesus, being both mortal and immortal, is not logically incoherent).
Comment:-
No. I am not agreeing with you.
Firstly, the two words immortal and mortal applied unconditionally to one person are most certainly illogical in the conventional sense of Western Logic. However, different things are true when terms are differently defined, or under different conditions, or about different things.
Secondly, I am pointing out that there is no difference between Jesus and any other human being in this respect. It most certainly does not apply to God, at least the Islamic concept of God, Allah, who is not mortal. Although you deny that your argument establishes that Jesus was divine, the fact remains that the argument is used to do just that - immortality being the attribute of God.
Thirdly, it is also necessary to point out that when the human being is defined as "a physical body with the spirit of God in him" (Quran 32:9), then immortality refers to the Spirit and not to man. The Quran does say:-
"Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep; then He withholds those on whom He has passed the decree of death and sends the others back till an appointed term; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect." 39:42
"How can you disbelieve in Allah, when you were dead and He made you alive, and then He will cause you to die, and then make you alive again, and then to Him will you return?" 2:28
But the soul, Nafs is not the Spirit, Ruh, though many Muslims mix them up. The Spirit is a Universal force (2:87, 252, 15:29, 16:2, 102, 17:85, 21:91, 32:9, 38:73). The soul is personal and, therefore, distinct from others in organisation. It can be defined as that which makes the difference between a person asleep and awake. It can be regarded as the seat of personal consciousness, conscience and will. We read:-
"We appointed immortality for no mortal before you. What! If you die, will they live on forever? Every soul must taste of death. We will test you with evil and with good, as a trial; and unto Us will you be returned. " 21:34-35
"Every soul must taste of death; and you shall only be paid what you have earned on the Day of Resurrection." 3:185
The Quran tells us that man will be transformed (56:60-62, 24:37), that he will pass through several stages of development (84:19, 22:5, 40:67 71:14), and that all things including man will return to Allah (8:44, 2:216, 7:29, 21:93),and that all things will perish except Allah 28:88, 55:27). It is, therefore, a question of point of view whether man as a soul continues to exists as an individual, especially when it has been re-absorbed into Allah.
According to some people resurrection means a return into a physical body. In that case it is the same as reincarnation. However, the Quran tells us:-
"Until when death comes to any one of them he says: My Lord! Send me back, that I may do right in that which I have left behind. Nay! It is but a mere word he speaks; behind them is a barrier until the Day they shall be raised." 23:99-100
There is no return to earthly life, and there is no disembodied soul, except, perhaps for the martyrs and the righteous.
"Think not those who are slain in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are living; with their Lord they have sustenance." 3:169
"Whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are in the company of those unto whom Allah has shown favour, of the prophets and saints and martyrs and the righteous; - the fairest company are they." 4:69
The Christian view appears to be that Jesus was resurrected in the flesh and that is why Christians have the hope of Eternal Life. From the Islamic point of view, this requires two beliefs, one conditional on the other, when only one is required:- That Jesus died and was resurrected and that the same will happen to us. In fact, one needs only one belief, that we will all be resurrected. The Islamic belief is based on the observation and understanding of the cycles of nature, such as the death and resurrection of crops as the seasons change and the cycles of sleep and awakening. (2:164, 25:47, 41:39).
Some Christians and Muslims think that resurrection is a physical reincarnation, others think that the resurrected body is a transformed one, a spiritual body, that can appear and disappear out of this physical world as did Jesus. In fact, however, Luke 24:36-43 tells us that Jesus was still flesh and bones when he appeared to his disciples after his supposed death. Jesus tells us that in the resurrection people are as the angels of God in heaven (Matthew 22:30).
In Christianity, Eternal life seems to apply only to the righteous:-
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." John 3:15
According to the Quran all will be resurrected and judged. This is also true in Christianity according to Matthew 10:28 and 25:46. It is also true according to the Quran that it is the righteous, those who follow a Messenger of God that earn Eternal Life (6:123, 8:24, 89:27-30). The unrighteous that earn Hell are neither dead nor alive (14:17). But being in Hell is not necessarily everlasting (11:106-108).
It can be concluded that man, who is a physical body with the spirit in him, sinned and as a result of sin people can be regarded as spiritually dead - that is, they are not in contact with the spirit within them. They are mortal. So if they die physically they are really dead. If, however, they regain contact with the spirit within, then they become spiritually resurrected and immortal, even in this life.
"Is he who was dead and We have quickened (given him life) him, and made for him a light, wherein walks amongst men, like him whose likeness is one walking in utter darkness whence he cannot emerge? Thus is their conduct made seemly to the disbelievers." 6:123
"O you who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not from Him when you hear him speak. Be not like those who say: We hear, and yet they hear not. Verily, the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf, the dumb who understand not. Had Allah known any good in them, He would have made them hear; but had He made them hear, they would have turned away, averse. O you who believe! Respond unto Allah and His Messenger when He calls you to that which quickens you; and know that Allah comes in between a man and his own heart; and that He it is unto Whom you shall be gathered." 8:20-24
"But he who in this life is blind shall be blind in the Hereafter, and err farther from the way." 17:72
"Only those can accept who hear. As for the dead, Allah will raise them up, then unto Him shall they return." 6:36
"Look then at the signs of Allah's mercy, how He gives life to the earth after its death; most surely He will raise the dead to life; and He has power over all things." 30:50
"He it is who sends forth the winds like tidings heralding His mercy; until when they lift the heavy cloud which We drive to a dead land, and send down thereon water, and, thereby, bring forth every kind of fruit; - Thus do We bring forth the dead; per chance (or possibly) you may remember." 7:57
Critic:-
This is not a good translation of Nafs, given the connection of the term 'soul' with Greek and Christian thought. Nafs is best (or at least better) translated as the 'self'. There is no evidence in the Quran, as far as I am aware, to equate the two. It is pretty clear the early Muslims did not understand Nafs to be some sort of disembodied soul, nor did they ascribe to the Greek dualism that infects and corrupts later Islamic thought.
Translating 'Ruh' as 'Spirit' is also problematic, in my opinion, though I am less certain of this. Perhaps you translated terms this way for a specific audience. But I would suggest this is a mistake of significance.
Comment:-
I am writing in English and using what seem to be the nearest equivalents. I have used the same words as some other translators have used.
If you say "self" instead of "soul" then O.K. I do not really care what you call them in English. The fact is that the terms Ruh and Nafs are not used for the same thing. What is important is what is understood by the terms - what they refer to. The term "self" can be understood differently by different people just as the word "soul" can. You could say that there are numerous views of "soul" and that the Islamic one differs from the Greek view. It is not at all necessary to equate it with what the Greeks think. This is the kind of mistake one leaves to the likes of Dr Heger and Co.
But you are right, Islam does not regard the soul as a disembodied ghost that survives after death. There is no consciousness between death and resurrection. (2:259, 30:59-60).
Perhaps you would like to give us a correct description of the terms "Ruh" and "Nafs".
The Quran says of the Ruh in 17:85. "The Spirit is (or comes) by the command of my Lord, and you are given but a little knowledge (or control) thereof." But it guides and strengthens people.
About the Nafs we are told in 39:42. "Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep; then He withholds those on whom He has passed the decree of death and sends the others back till an appointed term; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect."
What would you say is the difference between a dead body and a living one, or between a sleeping body and one awake?
Another Critic:-
To say that the soul is "immortal" is not to say that it is "eternal" or "everlasting". Only Allah is eternal and everlasting. All creation returns to Him and the finality is that only His "face" will subsist.
When referring to man, the words "mortal" and "immortal" only have meaning in the context of time and space. Man is not eternal or everlasting.
Comment:-
O.K. I will accept this.
I understood "mortal" as meaning that it dies. And "immortal" as meaning that it does not, and therefore, was Everlasting and Eternal.
Perhaps I was wrong.
But even so, if we define man as being a body with a spirit in it, then the spirit by itself is not man. Man dies and is resurrected. The human soul is not the same thing as the spirit. The spirit is Universal while the soul is personal and differs with each person. Else it could not be modified by our actions.
P.S. In case I was wrong I looked up the meaning of immortal in my dictionary.
It says: living forever, not mortal, incorruptible, undying, eternal, deathless, everlasting, imperishable, never-ending, endless, timeless, permanent, indestructible, divine, godlike, perpetual.....
So, only Allah is Eternal, but man is immortal in so far as he surrenders to Allah and becomes one with Him.
A Muslim:-
In Islam, in general, Ar-Rooh can be the Holy Spirit who is most usually identified as being the Arch Angel Gabriel (or sometimes other Angels of high rank and order - Michael, Israfeel etc)...
In truth there is no matter and sprit nature of man simply because one cannot sense such a thing in man because man is simply matter.
Comment:-
I cannot agree.
(1) Man is most certainly a combination of matter and spirit.
"Who made good everything that He has created, and He began the creation of man from dust. Then He made his progeny of an extract, of a fluid held in low esteem. Then He fashioned him and breathed into him of His spirit, and made for you the faculties of hearing, and sight and heart; little is it that you give thanks." 32:7-9
It is the spirit-matter combination that gives him the mental faculties. These faculties are described as hearing, sight and heart and correspond to the Lore of Certainty (ilm-ul-Yaqin), the Eye of Certainty (Ain-ul-Yaqin) and the Truth of Certainty (Haq-ul-Yaqin) - which correspond also to rational, experiential and inspirational (conscious) truths. Spirit probably refers to consciousness, conscience and will.
Look up the numerous verses that mention these three faculties.
(2) No. The Spirit is not the same thing as the Archangel Gabriel. Spirit is a fundamental force from Allah, that has also been put into man. Gabriel is a creature made of spirit, as angels are made of light, jinn of fire and man of earth. Gabriel cannot be put into people. Did Allah breath Gabriel into man? Are there multiple Gabriels? As the Spirit is the medium through which carries the Word, this would also apply to Gabriel. See the difference in the following verses:-
"Who is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His apostles and Gabriel and Michael? - Verily, Allah is an enemy to the unbelievers." 2:98
"And she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; and We sent unto her Our Angel; and he assumed for her the semblance of a perfect man." 19:17
"If you both turn in repentance to Him, your heart are already inclined to this; and if you back each other up against him, then surely Allah it is Who is his Protector, and Gabriel and every righteous one among the believers, and furthermore, the angels, are his supporters." 66:4
"And, verily, it is a revelation from the Lord of the Worlds, which the Faithful Spirit of Truth (Gabriel) has brought down upon your heart, that you may be one of the Warners;" 26:192-194
"And Mary, the daughter of Imran, whose body was chaste (or who guarded her chastity), so We breathed into her of Our Spirit and she testified the truth of the Words of her Lord and His revelations, and she was of the obedient." 66:12
"From Allah, the Lord of the Ascending Stairways. To Him ascend the angels and the Spirit in a Day the measure of which is fifty thousand years." 70:3-4 Also 97:4
"We gave Moses the Book and We followed him up with other apostles, and We gave Jesus the son of Mary manifest signs and aided him with the Holy Spirit." 2:87
"So when I have fashioned it, and breathed into it of My Spirit, then fall you down before him, prostrating yourselves before him (in obeisance)." 15:29
"He sends down the angels with the Spirit at His command upon whom He will of His servants, saying: Give warning that there is no God but Me; therefore, fear (do your duty to) Me." 16:2
"They will ask you about the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by the command of my Lord, and you are given but a little knowledge thereof." 17:85
As I see it, the Spirit arises from the Word or Command of God and carries the Word. It is, therefore, a Universal medium because it is the Word which is the creative force by which all things are made - i.e. organised.
(3) There is no mention of matter in the Quran and no distinction is made between matter, mind and spirit. Creation simply takes place through various levels of organisation:-
"Allah is He Who created seven heavens, and of the earth the like of them. The Commandment continues to descend among them slowly, that you may know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses all things in knowledge." 65:12
To say that man was made of earth is to say that he was made of the substances of earth, the 8th level. He also consists of the substance of the first level. The earth also contains levels corresponding to the levels of the heavens.
Critic:-
The Hellenistic view of man being composed of spirit and matter is to separate the spheres of the material and the spirit, i.e. to enhance the spirit one must punish the body (or material things, leave your possessions, engage in "spiritual" things) thus one could be defined as being a "spiritual" man if he does not interfere in worldly affairs and he becomes a "worldly" man if he does not interfere in spiritual affairs. This is one of the bases of secularism.
Therefore, the claim made by some people that man is composed of matter and spirit and that if matter overcame the spirit, he would be evil and if the spirit overcame matter, he would be good, and that he should give precedence to the spirit over matter in order to be good, this claim is false because man is not composed of matter and spirit.
Comment:-
This dichotomy between the spirit and the flesh also exists in Christianity when it follows the teachings of Paul, though this may be a misunderstanding of what he meant.
As I pointed out the Quran does not make a distinction between matter and spirit, mind etc. So you are right that there is no conflict in Islam between the physical and spiritual. But the Quran does make a distinction between levels of existence. To say that man is the result of a combination of spirit and earth is probably to say that that he is a combination of the first level and the 8th.
The Quran does make a distinction between worldly life and spiritual life, or between this life and the Hereafter.
"This life of the world is nothing but a pastime and game (or a sport and a play); but, verily, the abode of the Hereafter, that is life, if they did but knew!" 29:64
See also 3:117, 6:32,70, 7:51, 40:39, 46:20, 57:20.
It is true that the Quran does not condemn worldly desires, but it does condemn the formation of addictions to it such that the higher spiritual values are neglected.
"And when you have performed your rites, remember Allah as you remember your fathers, or with a keener memory still. There is among men such as says: Our Lord! Give us in this world; but then they have no portion in the Hereafter. And some there be who say: Our Lord! Give us in this world good and good in the Hereafter; and defend us from the torment of the fire! These have their portion from what they have earned; for Allah is swift at reckoning." 2:200-202
The "fall" of man to earth consists of the fact that his spiritual nature has become dormant to various degrees.
"And be not like those who forgot (or forsook Allah), so He made them forget (or forsake) their own souls: these it is that are the transgressors." 59:19
"Surely, We have created man in the best of moulds. Then We reduced him to the lowest of the low; Save those who believe and act right; for theirs is a reward unfailing." 95:4-6
"And by the soul and Who fashioned it, and enlightened it with what is wrong and right for it! He indeed is successful who causes it to grow (or purifies it)! And he indeed is a failure who corrupts it!" 91:7-10
From this point of view it is certainly true that we must give up the addiction to worldly life in order to attain spiritual excellence. That is to say, having "fallen" through the levels to the earth, we are required to ascend through the levels back to the origin.
But certainly, Islam does not require us to deny our physical nature or this world. On the contrary, we have a duty towards them and they are the means by which we can learn and develop.
Critic:-
Nobody claims that an animal is composed of matter and spirit; this proves decisively that the spirit in this context is neither the secret of life nor does it emanate from it nor does it have any relationship with the secret of life. Just like the animal is not composed of matter and spirit though it has the secret of life, man is also not composed of matter and spirit, even though he has the secret of life....
Comment:-
Note that in the Quran sleep is seen as the removal of the soul and this does not involve death. The soul can, therefore, be seen as the seat of personal consciousness and it can be withdrawn from the body. It could be regarded as an organisation of spirit. We also read:-
"There is not an animal in the earth, nor a flying creature flying on two wings, but they are peoples like unto you. We have neglected nothing in the Book (of Our decrees). Then unto their Lord they will be gathered." 6:38
"And unto Allah do prostrate whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, as do their shadows in the morning and the evening." 13:15
I do not think there is any absolute distinction in the Quran between dead, living and conscious entities. There are only differences in degree. Man is distinguished from others by being made into a Vicegerent.
"And when your Lord said unto the angels: I am about to place a Vicegerent (Agent, Successor, Inheritor) in the earth, they said: Will you place therein one who will do evil therein and shed blood? While we celebrate Thy praise and glorify Thee. Said (the Lord): I know what you know not." 2:30
"Verily, We offered the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to undertake it, being afraid of it; but man undertook it. Lo! He has proved a tyrant and a fool." 33:72
The Trust probably refers to the Vicegerency and this can be regarded as referring to the Spirit of Allah in him.
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