Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 06:48:37 -0000 From: auvenj@mailcity.com Subject: [lpaz-discuss] Re: From Keyword: Libertarian on AOL - Where does it all lead? To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: lpaz-discuss@yahoogroups.com
This is the sort of message that frustrates me. No one should be surprised to hear me say that Mr. Shotton's sentiments regarding the infighting are very similar to my own. But Mr. Shotton's ACTIONS amount to no more than whining from a safe distance: "I live n AZ, yet I refuse to affiliate myself with either of the groups fighting one another tooth and nail to be the "official" LP of AZ." How convenient.
My attempt to curb future litigation at the ALP, Inc. State Committee meeting failed. Not by a landslide, but by a handfull of votes. L. Neil Smith was placed on the ballot in Arizona over Harry Browne by a margin of 3 votes on the ALP Governing Committee of 25 (although only 11 members even bothered to cast a vote on this matter). The ruling from the ALP chair ousting me from that same ALP Governing Committee for the horrendous act of my election to ALP, Inc. was sustained by the margin of just a single vote. Regardless of how you feel about those particular questions, the fact is that the margins on these matters were slim. And guess what: those who were disgusted by either or both factions and left (or never became active) instead of making an active effort to end the fighting didn't get to vote.
As long as the people who want the fighting to end just sit and whine about it from the sidelines, it will continue. My advice to all who want the fighting to end is to quit whining and associate yourself with BOTH groups, work on whatever liberty-enhancing projects you find but simultaneously work for an end to the fighting. Go to ALP's convention. Become a Precinct Committeeman. Speak and vote your mind. Don't just whine about the fighting on an email list. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I regret that I can't seem to parse out Mr. Shotton's email address from the message below; if anyone has it please feel free to forward this response.
--Jason Auvenshine
--- In lpaz-discuss@y..., freemanaz@a... wrote: > Subject: Where does it all lead?
> Date: 3/5/01 12:06 PM US Mountain Standard Time
> From: <A HREF="aol://3548:BKS III">BKS III</A>
> Message-id: <20010305140625.01776.00000825@n...>
>
>
> I have been a libertarian for several years now (about 11) and one
thing I > have determined is that we are not really going anywhere in a
substantive > way. The main reason for this is all of the infighting.
>
> When I think of the LP I think of a scene from the movie
Braveheart. The > scene where Wallace is first knighted and the various Scottish
nobles press > him for support to their claim to the throne. Wallace says with
great > derision something to the effect of "You stand here and squabble
over scraps > from Longshank's table while ignoring your right to something
better." >
> The situation here in AZ is a prime example of everything that is
wrong with > the LP and politically active libertarianism in general. I am a
libertarian, > and I live in AZ, yet I refuse to affiliate myself with either of
the groups > fighting one another tooth and nail to be the "official" LP of AZ.
I have > yet to hear a plausible and convincing argument from anyone on
either side of > that catfight as to how all of this squabbling is going to help
> increase liberty and reduce the intrusiveness of government. In
fact, by > going to the courts, these jerks nave tacitly admitted that they
SUPPORT > allowing government the power to determine the nature of a
voluntary > organization like a political party. How is that a libertarian
action? If > these hypocrites had a shred of integrity they would have
contractually > agreed to non-binding arbitration from a third, non-governmental,
party > professional
> arbitration service. Instead they did exactly what the Reps, Dems,
> Socialists, or any other champions of statism would do; they placed
the > decision in the hands of the government court system.
>
> The situation in AZ is perhaps the most glaring, and bitterest
example, but > it is far from the only one. Our party, and our political
philosophy, is > riddled with dogmatic people who are willing to call anyone who
disagrees > with them on even a minor point a totalitarian.
>
> Does anyone really believe that this is not known to the general
public? Am > I the only one who has spoken with people who think that the LP has
many good > ideas, but is very foolishly run and hasn't a prayer of truly
substantive > gains until/unless the internal bickering is curtailed? Am I the
only one > who has spoken with people who embrace libertarian ideas, but who
refuse to > join the LP because we give such a negative public image regarding
our > internal affairs?
>
> I was once told a joke by a clergyman; actually it wasn't so much a
joke, and > a parable to illustrate the absurd levels of conflict people who
believe in > the same thing will go to focus on the 1% of difference in their
views: >
> A woman is walking across a bridge and sees a man standing on the
rail, > poised to jump into the rapids below. She runs up to him and cries
out. > She - No, don't jump, there must be something to live for!
> He - I can think of nothing, life sucks and I'm going to end it.
> She - Wait, do you believe in God?
> He - Well, yes, I do.
> She - OK, there's something. God surely wouldn't want you to jump,
I know > because I too believe in God.
> He - Really? Are you a Christian?
> She - Yes, I am, I am a Baptist.
> He - I'm a Baptist too.
> She - Reformed or traditional?
> He - Reformed
> She - Me too! Reformed Southern Conference or Reformed Eastern
Conference? > He - Southern
> She - Me too! Council of 1898, or council of 1927?
> He - 1927
> With that she pushes him off the railing and yells "Die Heretic"
>
> We libertarians seem to spend way too much time pushing each other
off the > railing for disputes which, when placed against the backdrop of
relentlessly > grinding statist abuses, are just as foolish as those in the
parable above. >
> Where will all of this bickering and foolishness lead? It leads to
assisting > the real statists and totalitarians orders of magnitude more than
if we > joined them. We help them by making the most intellectually valid
and viable > alternative to statism the exclusive province of a bunch of
bickering > children who could not agree on the appropriate means of exit from
a room > with only one door. Many people do not want to join the LP not
because they > don't
> want to support the policies, they do not want to join the LP
because they do > not want to affiliate themselves with us. Until we stop this
asinine > infighting, we will NEVER achieve any substantial degree of public
support. >
>
> B.K. Shotton III
>
> "None of the 'crises' listed as excuses for the theft of my liberty
are as > bad as is the loss of liberty."
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