"foxfire" <foxfire@telusplanet.net> wrote: > MM Thunderbird,
> So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that we should go ahead and
> be intolerant of other religious paths, since they are built on shaky
> foundations anyway that in your opinion don't stand up to scrutiny? Isn't
> this how persecution by the Christion church got started? If you want to
> believe you are better than most of the populace (and you seem to have that
> need) then have at er buddy, I hope it's fun for you. I'll just sit down
> here with the rest of the poor deluded slobs who think that the only way we
> will ever get past this drek is to stop insisting that one religion has to
> be better than another one in order to be valid. I would think that someone
> who seems as educated as you could come up with a better argument than "my
> god is better than your god, nah nah!". You can come up with all the
> arguments you like to invaildate someone elses religion, but you can't do
> the same thing to their faith. People believe what they believe with their
> hearts as well as their minds. If you want to change their minds, you have
> to speak to their hearts as well.
> > B*B, Foxfire
> (who, last time I checked anyway, isn't keeping any gods in a
> jar in the corner)

Sorry I got under your skin so bad.

I meant to point out that truth and opinion aren't on the same level of
meaning. Truth refers to naked minds in a hard universe. The word faith
is an emotionally charged variant of the word belief, which is an emphatic
version of opinion. Religions are human social processes, usually in a
competitive setting, which use faith as their standard for evaluation.
A religion which thrives has many faithful members, for example.

I wanted to strip most of the emotion from my attack on monotheism, by
setting it in the most abstract terms, in proving its basic claims are
impossible. I'm a writer, I don't have to show so much restraint, because
I can use emotionally laden terms as weapons. What my perception of the
issue is, that I can prove false what so many generations have accepted
as true. My standing is within the human community, as a proponent of
polytheism, a currently weak religion which I wish to boost at the expense
of monotheism, current champion and world ruler.

I didn't cheat when I dug down to the logical basis for belief. What i
did was only the minimum needed to expose the cheating of my adversary,
cheating which has been institutionalized into the framework of our
contemporary society. You can't make me out the bad guy on this. I'm
the one making the arrest.

It bothers you that anyone makes a strong statement about the relative
value of religions, because you feel this area should be left unexamined.
I think the truth itself transcends human preferences. If I can prove
something, my motive for doing it might be because I'm on one side or
another, but the proof itself stands apart from my motives. You might
rip me and my motives to shreds, but you can't touch the proof itself
like that.

You can ignore it, as you seem to prefer, and expect that the world
will also ignore it with you, and all the religiously-inclined people
in the world will unanimously ignore it. I'm sorry it bothers you,
but you must suppose it will bother monotheists a lot more. My own
expectation is different, because of how people develop their opinions.
The news that monotheism fails in the logical realm, I expect will be
decisive as future generations adopt their religious preferences.

You don't think I'm nice, for trying to change people's minds about
religion. Do keep in perspective that monotheism has killed more people
than any other human agency. I did not make my original post to promote
intolerance as a general religious attitude, but to line out people who
would be fooled into accepting as peers in religion, those adherents
of a religion whose most basic premise consists of _rejecting_ all other
religions. Your acceptance will not change the nature of the monotheist
beast. The image of the wolf in sheep's clothing comes to mind. My
efforts are to cut us loose, as Pagans, from attatchment to monotheism,
which I have torpedoed and believe to be sinking.

For additional background on the logic attack, see
http://www.oocities.org/~jthunderbird/prfs.html
which contains previous postings to this NG.

In fellowship,
Johnny Thunderbird
-------------------
Unity is inherently plural and at minimum two -- Aleister Crowley
Re: 2 Cent Rant [Pagans and Tolerance] soc.religion.paganism 981112