The Debate

On this page a forum was asked of the country to help Wyoming legislature decide to ban smoking in restaurants. The opinions below are all very valued and different. If you like to bring up a subject for future debate, you may e-mail your idea here.

I am a City Council representative for a city of 50,000 in Wyoming. Our city has no ordinance prohibiting smoking in restaurants; one has now been proposed. Most local restaurants have smoking and non-smoking sections. If the proposed ordinance passes, smoking in restaurants will be prohibited (except for those restaurants that are also classified as bars/lounges.) I'm told that the vast majority of waitpersons would prefer a 100% non-smoking environment. I would prefer to allow patrons a choice of smoking or non-smoking, but before I make a decision on how to vote, I would like to hear the opinion of persons who work in restaurants. Should I support the proposed ordinance banning all smoking in local restaurants, and from your perspective, why or why not? This input is important to me as I make this decision. Thanks for your help.

Responses:

The resort I work for has over 200 restaurants, and not a single one allows smoking in it. Also, there is no smoking in any building on the property what-so-ever. The current trend with the rising awareness to the dangers of second hand smoke is to have smoke free buildings. This includes not only restaurants, but office buildings, public buildings, government buildings, etc. A lot of restaurants that have a smoking and non-smoking section, are not really divided well anyway. Some have half-walls, others maybe sectioned off with nothing more than potted plants. I would venture to say that most establishments that are owned by major corporations have in place the no smoking policies, with the exception of the pub/bar type business. Will you upset a group of people by setting up no smoking policies? Yes. Will they riot? No. Eventually it will just become excepted...not liked, but expected. People can still smoke outside. I really believe more and more people are trying to quit anyway. The price of tobacco keeps going up, as well as the risk of various forms of cancer. I'm not saying we should make everyone quit, I'm saying that a lot of people are coming to that conclusion on their own. When I first started in the industry, I waited tables at a Red Lobster in Ohio. The smoking section was never as full of people as non-smoking, nor did it have as many tables in it. Granted that is one restaurant in Ohio 15 years ago, but maybe that is a way to measure the establishments in Wyoming. Go to the restaurants in the area and survey the number of people sitting in non-smoking vs. the number of people sitting in smoking. However in order to get an accurate assessment, pick slower nights like Tuesdays or Wednesdays. If you pick a busy night, people might be sitting in a smoking section because they do not want to wait for a non-smoking table. (The waits tend to be longer for non-smoking.)

That's hard to say...I think table turns would improve tremendously but yet the generalization about smoking tables is they stay longer but they tend to drink more and tip better. I personally would prefer smoke free as a "diner" but as a server I think it should be optional. Hope I'm not to late to help.... ohcheap1

Hi, Hope I am not too late... Well, they said MacDonald's wouldn't make it. But they are still in business. I live in NY State and we have some confusing laws... One of which is if the restaurant seats less the 50, smoking is allowed. We have visited these less the 50 restaurants frequently and the problem is, there is a smoking and a non smoking area but the two blend together which results in a smoking atmosphere no matter where you sit. I don't see where our eateries have suffered any from the non smoking laws. People will go out to eat. Why let children, babies and compromised ill people suffer for such a dirty habit. I am a reformed smoker and I know all to well what this smoke can do to one self. Why should anyone have the right to impose health problems on the innocent. Please ....NO SMOKING...... Marge H.

I currently work in the only smoke-free restaurant I've ever worked in. It is great to be able to serve food without the taste of smoke in the air to ruin the experience. We occasionally loose a few customers because it is not the law here to be smoke free. I feel that the benefits are huge and that there really is no down side. I lived near another town that passed the same law while I lived there (Flagstaff, AZ). The transition made people a bit edgy at first, but once the dust settled there seemed to be no problems. Terri

I personally don't think that anyone should be subjected to second-hand smoke on a daily basis. I don't even dine in restaurants that offer the option, and I work in the industry. It would be another story if cigarettes were less harmful to your health. Dolores

I've worked in restaurants in Brookline, Ma when they went non-smoking and 100% nonsmoking policies are a great thing for servers--you can breathe again. The majority of studies and research done thus far show: 1) restaurants and bars do not show declines in business, and often show increases 2) service staff deserve the same protection from ETS that all other workers in public places 3) other respiratory problems, besides cancer, are alleviated by nonsmoking policies even in the short-term. As a former server, I am familiar with the culture of the industry, i.e. that smokers tend to be better tippers, more relaxed, and friendlier, and, anecdotally, I found these generalizations to have a certain bit of truth. As a researcher, however, I have noticed that much of the 'controversy' surrounding the implementation of local smoking bans is generated by the Tobacco Industry, and that, on their own, these policies tend to have broad, if quiet, public support. What ever way you interpret the scientific research, and the public health community is pretty much reached a consensus on nonsmoking policies, the trend certainly seems to be going in the direction of 100% nonsmoking public places and it would be irresponsible in your position to jeopardize your constituents' health and well-being. I am currently a Research Fellow at the University of Massachusetts School of Public Health, and would be happy to answer any questions or direct you to any studies you may be interested in seeing. I can be reached at eb@schoolph.umass.edu. Good luck!

Their should be a rule against people smoking in restaurants. In addition, they should not be allowed to fart, be rude, mispronounce the names of French wines or sauces or any other item menu, there should be an ordinance against asking for substitutes. But don't stop there! Wait staff should have a RIGHT not to serve unhealthy food to their patrons. Things like red meat, chemically grown livestock, pesticide ridden vegetables, fat loaded dairy products or coffee from third world countries. In fact, the exploitation of wait staff should see their salaries rise dramatically and then the Wyoming can pass laws against people drinking in public. For their health, diners and staff should be required to have a one hour aerobic class before leaving the establishment and why not throw in a brochure on "tips for healthy living". If people still want to come for an evening of organically grown peas on a bed of chemical free lettuce with no booze, cigarettes or fat served by wait staff in bubble suits then you can sigh a big sigh of relief in this just cause and serious infringement on some peoples rights. If not then you can impose the death penalty in a deal you can work out with the state sanctioned killing machines over in Texas (or other third world countries where the state routinely kills of their stupid and their poor and other undesirables) non anyone who dares to suggest that it might be pleasant to have a cigarette with a meal with a fine red wine after a glorious well-marbled steak? I invite you to Quebec where we may die young but sex is still fun and everyone does it, where the wine flows, and the fat clogs but we die with a big smile on our lips! Karen Barclay Montreal,Quebec

I am a bartender & also work in fine dinning . I don't smoke. unless I am having a cocktail.. about twice a week, smokers don't bother me, I figure they are paying for the space let them smoke. Risenshine

I work in a large restaurant in Maine, (for 10 years) our smoking area is separate from the nonsmoking section, enough so, that the smoke does not affect that area at all. I agree that smoking is not a healthy thing to do, but it is a choice some of us make. (I'm obviously a smoker) I thought this was a free country and that we could make our own choices as adults. No one is forced to go into any establishment or work in any establishment if we chose not to. Although, I would not want to offend anyone, restaurants can have separate smoking areas. In order to do this now, you must purchase an expensive license, have separate restrooms and even a separate bar in which to order your drinks for the nonsmoking area. (two separate restaurants, completely) Personally, I am looking forward to the day restaurants ban: ignorant customers, non-tippers, screaming children, breastfeeding women (there are a lot of things we do that are natural, that you just don't do in public) and heavy perfume wearers. These things affect my health. (nerves & sinuses) How can the government tell you what to do with your own business?? Free country?? yeah right. We are all losing more and more of our rights. It's just not right!

I was working as a waiter in a country club in Pacific Palisades CA, when the 100% non-smoking ordinance passed for Los Angeles County. Everyone on the wait staff, including the bartenders, were very excited. And one of our bartenders was a smoker himself! He said he liked to smoke on his own time, not when someone at the bar lit-up and forced him to breath second hand smoke. Thanks to an appeal by the tobacco industry, we had to wait another year before the ordinance went into effect. The first month the 100% non-smoking law went into effect, smoking members of the country club grumbled and complained. But after about two months, the complaining stopped and the smoking members understood that the law was the right thing to do. We had tables outside were people could smoke if they wanted, and soon it became second nature for smokers to go outside and lite-up. And since this law applied to ALL restaurants and bars in Los Angeles County, no business was lost. I am now the Dining Room Manager in an upscale restaurant and martini bar in Hollywood CA. We cater to many studio execs., music industry people and famous stars. It is the norm for people to step outside for a smoke, or sit on one of our patio tables for lunch or dinner , where, by law we are allowed to let people smoke. It is so nice to work in a smoke free environment. This law also applies to nightclubs and it's very common to see people standing outside smoking a cigarette. It's also nice to be able to go out dancing and not come home smelling like you've been out fighting fires. If your proposed law blankets all clubs, bars and restaurants, no business will be lost. Don't believe the propaganda from the tobacco industry. Our restaurant, bar and martini lounge is busier now than ever! Our crew was just talking about this very thing last week and we all agreed that working in a healthy, smoke free environment actually helped moral, and therefore business. Do the working people of your state a favor and pass the 100% smoking ordinance. Thank you for your time. If you'd like to discuss this issue further you can e-mail me at www.peinetti@cs.com or write me. Steven P.

50,000 people you must be talking about either Casper or Cheyenne Wyoming. I used to live in Casper and will be moving back as soon as I can. I think you answered your own question though. You think people like having a choice. Of course we do. I personally WILL not eat in a restaurant that does not allow it's customers to smoke. I think that separating a restaurant into a smoking and non smoking is a great Idea because it does not rob me of my choice. Now if the government comes along and makes the choice for me. well then so much for my freedom. Smoking does harm other people so I agree with having designated smoking area's but in your hurry to be politically correct lets not forget that a citizen of the united stats has the right to make any bad decision that he wants to. because as long as it does not endanger any one else it is legal. so let the smokers of this world die from their stupidity. It is part of their legal right to do so. Sincerely, one of the stupid smokers.

The issue here is not about what servers want or who will be offended by second hand smoke. The issue at stake here is PROPERTY RIGHTS. The government should not have the right to tell you what you can and can not allow on your own property (i.e., your restaurant). I waited tables for five years in both Texas, where smoking is allowed, and California where it is not. It is true, you will not lose business if you go smoke free, in fact, if smoking were allowed everywhere else you would gain business. Why don't we let each individual restaurant decide for themselves? If someone doesn't want to work in an environment where there is smoke, no one is forcing them to do so. If you do not want to eat where there is smoke, dine elsewhere. No one would come to your home, YOUR PROPERTY, and tell your guests what they can and cannot do. What I think is an absolute riot is all the commercials that were aired in California before the change featuring servers asking customers not to smoke because of their health, etc. Probably 75% of the servers I have worked with/known have been smokers themselves. Even most of the non-smoking servers still wanted smoking sections because smokers are generally better tippers and more easy going (it is true!) I no longer smoke, and I prefer to eat without the smell of smoke in the air. I personally think (and have always thought) it is rude to smoke while others are eating. HOWEVER, I support the rights of the restaurant/bar owners to make that decision for themselves and their businesses. If I don't want to smell smoke, I can take my business elsewhere. Helen

I also hope I'm not too late. I myself am a smoker, but I DO NOT like to smoke and eat, or be around those who are. It ruins the taste of my food and my dining experience. If someone around me is getting ready to eat and I am smoking, I will put out my cigarette, or leave (at home). Plus, and I know every server has had to do this...I hate to clean up spilled ashtrays! Pass the non-smoking laws!!! Ken & Julie

I work in a restaurant that has recently switched to no smoking at all, and I have to tell you, it's fabulous! I can finally breathe again!! Of course we had a few complaints, but the customers who DO smoke are getting used to not having it while they are eating. I think smoking sections are a horrible idea, because (and this might just be my waitressing angst acting up again) but customers who do smoke usually sit forever, and that gets really irritating when it's busy. Also, if you can't go 45 minutes without having a cigarette, then there is something seriously wrong with you. I_Like_To_Breathe p.s. There is also the option of going outside!!!!!

I have been a waitress and a bartender for the past 10 years at several establishments. when I began in 1990 every restaurant had a smoking section and every bar as well that was a given. I now work in a restaurant in Maine on the coast. as of last month the state of Maine passed a law that prohibits smoking anywhere in any restaurant including the bars and lounges. Personally I feel that the state has no right at all to force private business owners to follow this. There is already a place for non smokers and smokers that is completely separate (that was the first law to pass some years ago) and now it's extended to the bar area as well. In the bar I work in I would guess that 80% of the patrons smoke....and in my state we have felt the loss and I'm sure will continue to as we are 5 miles from the New Hampshire border and the town of Portsmouth which already enjoys a booming restaurant industry. People have just started to "go over the bridge" to NH where they can eat, drink and smoke freely. I'm not pretending to say that I feel smoking is healthy or that smokers outnumber the non smokers, I'm just saying that it should be the choice of the owner whether to allow smoking or not. We had never in the past lost a customer because smoking was allowed at the bar and in one closed off section of the place. As a final comment I'd like to add that in the state of Maine, if you are a restaurant owner and wish to purchase a smoking license you must pay a very hefty price (thousands per year) and prove that your establishment's sales of liquor are 60% and nobody does that much. I feel it's either the owners choice or the state's...one way or the other...you shouldn't get to have the privilidge because you have money. They state that it's for the health of consumers and workers but that's bull....if that were true then money would never factor in to the equation.It would be NO SMOKING NO MATTER WHAT.

When I'm already huffing and puffing just to keep my body temperature normal on a busy night, the last thing I want is a nice deep breath of some customer's nasty second-hand smoke. It's hard enough just to breathe normally. I smoke myself, but having to keep a customer's smoke out of my face is entirely disruptive as I'm trying to take his or her order and busy remembering five other things. Besides, who wants to smell gross, stale tobacco odor when they could be enjoying the enticing aromas present in most smoke-free restaurants? I say keep the smoke where it best loved ... With the booze in the bars! Christie W.

I am a stop smoking therapist in Yorkshire, UK. I operate as part of the international franchise ALLEN CARR'S EASY WAY TO STOP SMOKING. From our experience and as an ex-smoker, smokers are secretly glad not to have to smoke. They resent being told what to do, but if there is a universal rule like we have in cinemas and theatres, they get used to it and actually forget about smoking for a little while, which amazes them, but also helps them to see they don't need to smoke to enjoy themselves. Hope this helps Diana E.

I live in Victoria, BC. In the Capital Regional District there is absolutely no smoking in any building, thus being hospitals, office buildings. shopping malls, AND restaurants. This was very controversial for some time. Office workers go outside to designated areas, hospital patients and visitors, also outdoors and most restaurants have outdoor patios in which smokers can sit and enjoy "fresh air" while they smoke. This by-law was passed so as not to expose second hand smoke to employees. Everyone seemed to cooperage until it was banned from all restaurants, pubs, bars and bingo halls. What an uproar. Things have calmed down and it is now accepted among diners everywhere. Tourists are still having problems adjusting. I am a waitress and an ex smoker. I cannot tell you what a difference it has made for me to work in a smoke free environment. I no longer have dry, itchy eyes, and my chest does not bother me anymore. My uniform only smells of the food I serve not the brand of cigarettes everyone smokes. My employer has not lost any business or money, (if anything sales are higher because people enjoy the atmosphere more). We have zero tolerance for drinking and driving in the province of BC so the fact that owners of pubs and restaurants would lose money due to the fact that smoking was banned is not an issue. If you would like more information I'm sure anyone of our local MLA's would be able to provide you with information on how to enforce this by-law. One happy waitress

When our restaurant had sections it dwindled down to a 6 table smoking section and a 23 table non-smoking section. I feel that some people would prefer a smoking section but the majority does not. We now have a smoke-free restaurant and bar (California) and it is such a nicer place to work. I feel as if someone is going to be inconvenienced, either non-smokers who have to tolerate the smoke or smokers who have to take it outside. I feel as if the smokers should be inconvenienced because they should not have the right to jeopardize MY health (as a customer) or the health of my kids. Thanks for your time. AB

I've been a bartender for over 15 years in California and have a few strong opinions about this issue: 1) A bar or a restaurant IS NOT a public place! It is a privately owned establishment. Passing these types of laws infringes on the owners' rights more than the patrons. 2) America used to be about freedom of choice, but that is eroding quickly while the pressure groups and government make all our choices for us. Why not require bars and restaurants to post a sign telling prospective patrons whether their business allows smoking or not? This could also be brought to the attention of any prospective employees. Then people could make up their own mind where they wanted to eat, drink or work. 3) Smoking laws are generally ignored where I live and work. No establishment enforces them, no agency polices them and the whole thing is a joke. Just like the inept IRS regulations that even they don't understand, smoking laws only tend to make lawbreakers out of otherwise law abiding citizens. And this contributes greatly to the decline of respect for the laws in general. 4) Smoking is still legal. Cigarettes and cigars are still legal. As they should be. We need the government to get back to doing what they are supposed to do - protecting our rights as citizens, NOT trying to control every aspect of our lives because some happen to disagree with our choices! Thanks for the opportunity to get this off my chest! SWC

This is an ordinance I wish my town would adopt. We eat out frequently and it seems lately that the smoke in restaurants is getting thicker all the time. The smoking/non-smoking sections are a joke. Just last week we were seated in a non-smoking section. A party seated about 6 feet away in the smoking section had finished their meal and 3 people lit up just as our meal is served. Besides the burning eyes and the plain stench of it, the smoke really ruins the taste of food. This was a smallish area and was filled so moving further away was not a solution. It is simply unfair that non-smokers have to put up with the filthy habits of others and so absolutely, pass this ordinance. They can smoke outside or in bars etc. but let us at least enjoy the meals we pay for.

Smokers and other unhealthy habit participants tend to drink alcohol and alcohol is always preferred over ice teas and water with lemon on my checks. So keep smoking and drinking and drinking and increasing the size of my check and tip. Something that has not been discussed on this web-site, is attentive service to smokers or making smokers feel welcome. If I have a table of smokers I provide a few things as follows; 1. An astray delivered to the table with the restaurant's matchbook opened and standing in the ashtray 2. A reassuring sign of approval that they are welcome to smoke cigarettes. Cigars may, depending on the establishment be an exception 3. Capping service after two butts in the ashtray, always with a smile If I see that they have cigarettes waiting to be opened, and the guest asks, "is smoking allowed?" I reply "it is chain-smoking only." :) John

2005 De Voss Restaurant Group

 

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