They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Well in the case of Charlie Coles he will take the thousand words every time. As a sports fan you will always be entertained listening or in this case reading those thousand words. Coach Coles is a sports classic. His charming way of telling stories has endeared himself to sports fans in Southwest Ohio and across the MAC. Read this carefully and see if you can think of any other coaches that answer questions like Coach Coles. So get yourself a cold beverage, some munchies and enjoy a conversation with one of my fav basketball coaches.

One funny note: During the interview from time to time as Coach Coles was answering a question I would get up and shoot some photos. Right as I took the picture he would put his hands down and look right at the camera. When I stopped taking pictures he would start using his hands in animated way. It took some effort to finally get some shots that looked natural. I am not complaining. I wouldn't want it any other way because he wouldn't be Charlie Coles.

CigarBoy: Coach, question one. Let's talk a little about the team you've got this year. You didn't quite hit .500 last year but you had a schedule that was tough as nails and tough as nails this year too. So what can we expect from the Redhawks this year?

Coles: Well, I think you can expect a team that will improve as the season goes along. We are still relatively young. We are probably the only team in the country that stays young. I don't know whether that's good. That's why Gary Cross for the Bulls stays young. So he doesn't have to be accountable. (chuckle) So we've been staying young lately, but I think our team will improve and get better as we go along. That's something we didn't do last year. I was very disappointed in the fact that we started out kind of bad last year and we ended bad. That's the first time we've ever done that. That wasn't good for us. We've always improved as the season went along and got a little bit better and we didn't do that at all last year.

CigarBoy: Let's talk about your players. Run down through your starting line-up this year.

Coles: First of all, Danny Horace, from Cincinnati, who I think will either be, or will become, our best player at some time during the year. He may be our best player now, I don't know. Juby Johnson will challenge him for that now, but I think when it's all said and done, Danny Horace is going to be a very good player this year. I think he's going to make that step from high school to college. He's 6'5", powerful. He's got a real good outside shot and I didn't know that. I probably played him a little long last year in the sense that I played him in the post and he's not a post player at all. He's more of a...I don't know if he's an outside player but he's more of a spot-up jump shooter. A guy who crashes the boards real hard. I think he's going to be a real good player for us this year and may even be one of the top ten players in the league when it's all said and done. Then the next guy is Juby Johnson. This will be his third year starting. I think he also could be one of the better players in the league. Now he needs to take a step up too. He's our only guy that returns that was a double figure scorer last year. His consistency has to improve. He's had games, like last year he had a game where he had 26 point, 12 rebounds, and I think probably in the next game he had 12 points, 3 rebounds. So he's had big games here like last year where he had 25 points against Marshall, he shot for 9 of 11 from the field. So we got to get him more consistent.

CigarBoy: What's the key to his consistency?

Coles: Just concentrating and taking it game by game. Understanding that what he did one game may not work so he's got to go to something else. Juby's the kind of player that if he was shooting the ball real good from outside on Wednesday, and he was making his shots, on Saturday, he'll kind of thinks, boy, this is the way to go. When the other team is saying, gosh this guy shot 9 for 11 we aren't going to give him any good looks. So now he's got to figure out, how else can I score, and that may come with experience. So hopefully he can adapt to that. The third guy, as far as being a starting player, is Chester Mason who had a very, very good summer. Chester had, I thought, a decent year last year for a redshirt freshman. Got lots of ability. I think what Chester needs to do is work harder in practice every day. If I could criticize him for one thing, it's day in and day out in practice. He's not the same player and if he wants to get better as a Division I player, he's going to have to be better in practice every day because that's what the good guys do. That's the reason why teams like Butler, and players like Dave West and people like that get better because they get better daily. So Chester has to work on that but he's a guy who could be another top player in our league. Then the fourth guy is Eugene Seals who's kind of a jack-of-all-trades. Eugene's a good defender. He can score baskets when he has to. He's a great athlete. He's the best athlete we have on the team. He's very versatile. We can play him in a lot of places so we really like him as far as being one of our Prime Time Players. Then the next guy is your guess as good as mine if you knew something about our team. (chuckle) It could be Nate VanderSluis at 6'11" 315, it could be John Morningstar at 6'10", Tim Schenke who was a walk on last year. It could be any of those three guys because this guy is going to have to be a guy who rebounds, kind of like a wild card that can get us some key baskets. So that would be our top 5.

CigarBoy: What do you have coming in new this year?

Coles: We've got three guards and we've got John Morningstar. The three guards I think will all play. Josh Hausfeld who had a great state tournament last year when they upset King James', LeBron James. When Bacon beat them in the state tournament, Josh was named MVP. He's a 6'2" guard from Bacon, good player, got to become more consistent but he's a well-built kid. He was a combination football and basketball player in high school which should help him in college. We've got a kid, William Hatcher out of Flynt Carmen-Ainsworth High School, he's going to be a good player right from the start. He can get his shot off. He's got pretty good moves. He's good. Then we've got another kid, Ryan Baumgardner who's a walk-on only because we had signed everybody. If we had a scholarship left, Ryan would have been a scholarship player. He's a kid out of Muncie, IN. Lead his school to state championship his junior year. He's going to play. He gives us something we don't have and that's boy, a kid that loves to play. I think he'll fire a team up. He's got good ability. He's the fastest player on our team, gets the ball down on the floor and can pass it. I think our guard position will be much better than last year. We loose Davis but I think it will be better. Like I said, John Morningstar didn't have a very good senior year at all and I was really concerned about that. He came in this summer, went to summer school for 6 weeks and they tell me he really worked hard in the weight room. He ran with the football players, which surprised me. Everybody says he worked hard. Of course I didn't watch it but they say he did. He's a good player, he's skilled. It's just that we've got to convince him that he's not a point guard.

CigarBoy: Talk to me a little about your scheduling philosophy. You've always got a tough schedule.

Coles: Yeah, way back when I was at Central Michigan... I started as an assistant at Detroit. Now they don't play as good a schedule, but when I was an assistant there, they had been very, very good. Then they took a little slump. But people wanted to play in Detroit because it was proven. So we could get good teams to come there and I remember the Memphis State game. My third year, and last year as an assistant, and we upset them, and they were Number Two in the country. I never will forget that night. We beat them and I thought to myself, what a great feeling.

CigarBoy: Was that at Detroit's Calihan Hall?

Coles: Yeah, that was at Calihan. So when I became head coach of Central Michigan, one of my things was I wanted to play a good schedule, but it was for selfish reasons. I wanted to look down at the other end and see guys that I'd seen on TV. I remember when we played against Digger Phelps. I remember asking him for his autograph after the game, for my wife. My wife had said, "don't forget to get Digger's autograph," you know? They'd only beat us by one and we didn't have Dan Majerle. So at Ohio State, we lost to them on a tip-in. I can remember that. Gary Williams was pacing up and down the sidelines, crying on every call, and we had Majerle. We lost 81-80. We had a kid, Tommy Johnson who had 45 at Ohio State that afternoon and I can remember every seat was filled. It was phenomenal. So for me, it's not just for the players, but it's for me. I think that when you come out and you play in those places, it's things you never forget. When I was here at Miami, and ever since Miami's always scheduled tough, best in the MAC as far as scheduling. I got that from my coach, Dick Shrider because we always played in places where coach would always tell us, "Hey, I recruited you guys to do the best so we are going to play the best." I remember we played Cincinnati every year down at the Gardens. I can remember my freshman year, that's when freshmen weren't eligible. We played a freshman game, I ran with Thacker and Yates and all those guys. Boy, was THAT a rude awakening. We ended up having a pretty good game but I can remember going to the locker room, not showering, got my clothes on, came back out, and they had spot for us under the basket. I watched Oscar blow 'em out. It was one of the biggest thrills of my life. The best player that ever played the game, and I'm watching this guy. I was only 17 years old and I'm watching this guy that nobody's playing like. He's shooting jump shots on the move, there's nobody in America that's playing like this guy. A couple of my buddies had come down with my parents to watch the game from Yellow Springs. I can remember us sitting there, not saying a word. It was like gol-lly. So for those reasons, I've always felt that if I ever became a Division I coach, I wanted to do that again. Like this year, we are at Purdue. Well, Keady's one of my favorite people of all times. I love to see him mad. When he's mad, he's the funniest guy in the world, ya know what I mean? And he's a great coach, great coach! I think he's phenomenal, so we play there. Then we open up with the first team to ever play in Maryland's new fieldhouse. So for me that's good. We play Cincinnati this year. You can't tell me there's a better college coach in the country than Bob Huggins. I don't care what anybody says. What he does and how he does it every year, I'll never know. Some of our fans will be mad for me saying that but he's a great coach so we're playing against them. Play against my buddy Thad Matta down at Xavier who's come in and taken a nice program and said OK, we are going to try to make it a little bit better now. Skip had done a wonderful job, Pete Gillen had done a wonderful job. They've got West and Chalmers and those guys. Then we play Dayton, Wright-State, we get a little bit of everything. We are the only team that plays everybody in the area. I think that's important. See I played around here, Eddie Schilling played here at Miami. Huggins didn't play here. He played over in West Virginia. Heaven knows what was going on over there. Thad, I don't know where he was. He might not have even been born yet. Oliver, who knows where he came from, but when I played, we played Dayton twice, Xavier twice and UC once. So we had two leagues going. We had the Valley, what Coach Shrider use to call it. It consisted of all the teams in Southwest Ohio. I'll never forget, Coach Shrider getting into that locker room and said, "boys, this is for the Valley," and then we'd have a night going. There's room for both. Now I got my wish because that's what we are doing this year. We are playing everybody.

CigarBoy: From what I can tell, you are the only coach who has the desire, and the where-with-all to get it done. Why is that? Why are you the only one who can play them all the teams in Southwest Ohio?

Coles: Well for one, I'm the only one who WANTS to play them all. I don't think UC what's to play Dayton. UC should play home-and-home with Dayton every year. Well, every other year. Xavier and UC gotta play together. Dayton and Xavier are in the league, and then they should give Wright State a shot at it.

CigarBoy: I think Wright State wants to play everyone.

Coles: Yeah, give Wright State a shot. Wright State if you look at that school, and the number of students they have, you look at their arena, hey, it's a matter of time. A lot of potential in that program, and why not? I can remember, I had Bo Schembechler for a class when I was here so I know Bo fairly well. My friends played for him and everything. He was here three of the years I went to school here. But anyway, I can remember when Bo was at Mid-Michigan. He brought in Long Beach State. Gave them something like 300 grand. The state government just said Hey Bo, hold up. What are you doing? Play Western and give them the 300 grand. That made a lot of sense to me. Well, he didn't want to play Western. Didn't want to get beat by Western. He wanted to play somebody like Long Beach State. Well, that's my point. He's going to be great no matter what. So what's the problem with playing anybody in the area? It'll be great.

CigarBoy: How did the UC game come about?

Coles: Well, I think that game was engineered by the people who run FirstStar/US Bank Arena. I think they just came in and said, "Look, here we are in the community," now I'm a magnet in this..I don't know. They said, "Here we are. We are trying to get this place going. Kentucky plays here why don't you play here and a good opponent would be Miami 'cause they got a lot of alumni in the area. They don't know any different. They don't know that they can't beat you. You know you can beat them. They don't know that you can't beat them. Their fans think this is like 1956..so play 'em." I think the athletic director said yeah.

CigarBoy: Is that a TV game? You still working on that?

Coles: I don't know. The only thing we have to do with it is they called and asked us. Dan Peters the assistant coach called and I said yeah, we'd be glad to. I mean, they have a great program.

CigarBoy: You move your hands when you're talking. You have great hand motions except when I am trying to take a picture.

Coles: (laughing) You like that?

CigarBoy: (laughing) It'd be great if we could capture that on tape.

Coles: But they have a great program and they are good.

CigarBoy: If I could sum up your scheduling philosophy, it would be: Play the best, whenever you can?

Coles: Whenever you can. I think it helps the kids. Our football team does the same thing. Their first three games: at North Carolina, Iowa here, and at LSU.

CigarBoy: So it's kind of an Athletic Department philosophy?

Coles: Yeah, always has been.

CigarBoy: Let's talk about your recruiting philosophy. What is your recruiting philosophy?

Coles: Well, my recruiting philosophy probably is not a good recruiting philosophy because I still get caught up in recruiting kids that I like. I've recruited very few kids that I didn't like as people and every time I've done it, it's kind of back fired on me. Mike Ensminger is a perfect example of the kind of guy I like to recruit. Rob Mestas played for us. Guys who really would give almost anything to be a winner. Wally Szczerbiak started out like that and I was in on recruiting Wally but Herb Sendek and Shaun Miller, all of us recruited Wally. Number one, I like to recruit character, Number two, I like to recruit guys who can play a couple different positions because I think at our level that versatility is a big key. We've got three guys on our team right now that can do that. Chances are we'll recruit another guy like that. Like Danny Horace and Eugene Seals are kind of similar so how do you play them together? Well you can play them together if Danny understands hey I'm going be here and here and Eugene understands the same thing so that's important. Then another thing I try to recruit too, is just try to think about improvement. Most of the kids we get are going to have to improve. When we like a guy and he's good, then that's kind of a signal that somebody else likes him. Eric Daniels was a perfect example of that. Boy we loved him. Thought Eric would be very good. Well Tubby Smith got to looking around and he didn't get this guy, didn't get that guy, or that guy, so he liked Eric. Now Eric's telling everybody it's Miami, Temple, Michigan and UK. (ho ho ho - laugh) His mother kept saying, "hang in there, hang in there." She actually thought that we should, but she was very naïve. You go to one of UK's games at Rupp Arena, you've got 22,800 there. They go down there and then it was like, "hey coach, I think he's going to go to UK." Well I thought he was going to go to UK all along so we've got to get guys that we think are going to improve. Because they are going to be mid-major guys. It's awful hard to get kids that are rated high with all the scouting services going on. If Tubby doesn't know about a guy, then some guy who's running a recruiting service is going to make sure Tubby knows. He's going to call Tubby and say "hey Tubby, you're looking for a forward right? Boy, do I know the guy. There's a kid down in Mississippi, he's 6'8", very few people know about him, I guarantee he can play." That goes on a lot more than it use to. You use to get sleepers, but you don't get them guys no more. Szczerbiak fell through the cracks, why, I don't know. But he will tell you that a lot of schools recruited him, Harvard, Miami University, and maybe Boston University. Dennis Wolff, the head coach of Boston University told me, "I liked him but I didn't like him as much as I should have." So we got him because we knew if he went to Harvard, he was going to have to pay a lot of money. So we kind of figured we had the edge on that one. He came here and boy, he got better. So that's what has to happen for us. We have to have a keen eye.

CigarBoy: Talk a little bit about what the MAC is looking like this year.

Coles: MAC is going to be good again this year. I don't know if it will have a team like Kent last year. I thought Kent was the second best team ever to play in this league. See your draw helps you out too. The best team to ever play in this league was Ball State's team of '89/90 with all those kids, They lost to Vegas by two points. Ball State's got the ball, kid dribbling trips and falls, they don't get the shot up. They could have won that game. Vegas won that national tournament by like 20 points that year. That was the best team that's played in the MAC. They just had everything. Last year, Kent was very good. They were sneaky good. Kent got a nice draw in the tournament. Everybody knew that when they played Oklahoma State - chalk that one up. When they played Alabama - Alabama had no chance. They don't play hard enough. Then they got Pitt in the Sweet 16. Pitt was a decent team, not a great team. So then they had Indiana who I thought was good, but I thought Indiana got a break when Kent won and I thought Kent got a break when Indiana won. They didn't want to play Duke. So Kent was a good team. We don't have that this year. But what we do have is a lot of other teams. Ball State with Ron Smith is going to be good. Let's hope Brandon Hunter is still mad about something because he could decide this thing very early on if he just says, "hey I'm tired of fooling around. I want to win the league title." Then it's over with. That's because he's a man. I mean Brandon Hunter is a MAN. So Ohio University is going to be good. Then they've got Sonny Johnson who's the best guy other than Jaivon Harris and Brandon Hunter. Kent State's going to be good. Antonio Gates is one of the big three. So Kent's going to be good because Gates is there and they've got some talent. So those three should head up the Mac. I think we've got a shot but we're really going to have to overachieve and play hard.

CigarBoy: Tell me about some of the area teams. What do you see Cincinnati doing this year?

Coles: Same thing they do every year. Huggins is going to get them rolling and they are going to crack the top 15, simple as that. He's got a knack for that. He's comfortable with it. He's damn near cocky about it. I mean, he should be. You can count on them being in the top 15.

CigarBoy: Xavier

Coles: Top 10. They've got Sato and West. You've got probably got two of the top 40 players in America with those two. Then you throw Chalmers in there and now he said, "well you gotta' include me in there, look where I'm at." So he'll be playing off of that 'cause everybody else is going to be doing the same thing. They are going to say Sato/West. Then they've got David Young who's pretty damn good and a coaching staff who's hungry. They are like WOW, you know. So you've got an Atlantic 10 champion there they are going to be off the charts.

CigarBoy: Dayton

Coles: I think they are going to be the usual Dayton. They are going to be fooling around. They could possibly get into the tournament this year. They always have good players.

CigarBoy: Looking for Dayton to win 20 this year?

Coles: Pretty close to it. Oliver's done a good job.

CigarBoy: Wright State

Coles: Wright State's looking pretty good. Eddy's gotten better every year with his team and they are hungry. He keeps telling them, "hey no respect, and what's going on around here, we're Wright State." I just about know what his speech is. (laughing) His speech is what mine is. So, they are going to be good. They've got Hollins. They've got Bushman who's going to be pretty good. Doliboa's good, Seth is a good player so they are going to be good. They are going to be one of the teams in their league that... I don't know if they can win that league because that league's going to be GOOD this year. UIC, Loyola is gonna be good. Wisconsin-Milwaukee is going to be real good. Perry Watson and Detroit they'll get some luck every now and then and win some games. So he's in a tough league but he's got a good team. So I think all the teams in the area will be looking for good seasons.

CigarBoy: Let's look at some of the other teams you play. What about Maryland? How are you going to beat those guys?

Coles: I don't know. I think with Maryland, they've got a couple of high school kids coming in now that are very good. When that happens, the thing you try to do the first game of the year, is just try to get your guys playing hard and then you hope for some breaks because if you are ever going to beat teams like Maryland, you beat them first or second game. You don't beat them in the 15th or 20th game, at least we don't. So hopefully we can go in there with a game under our belts with Purdue and go in there and play well, which is possible.

CigarBoy: Let's go to Purdue now. What are you going to do about Purdue?

Coles: Well, Purdue will be hungry. They had the same record we had last year. Keady probably is doing bad for himself after having 126 consecutive winning seasons, one of the greatest coaches of all times. You know how those guys are. They're cocky as all... cause they aren't use to that, you know. So he's going to be hungry with that team. He's going to be ready to go. He's going to play hard. You know that. Nice crowd, probably the night before a home football game maybe. I don't know. We're just going to have to go in there and play, try to play good defense, try to rebound. That's what you try to do when you play those kinds of games. You've got to rebound. If they miss a shot, get the ball. Maybe you can bank a shot in or something. You need some breaks because the longer you go, the better you are.

CigarBoy: Let me ask you about the Bracket Busters. Good concept? More made for TV than useful? What's your opinion on that?

Coles: I don't know. I know what they are saying. I can't comprehend right now. I know there are probably folks in our league a little disappointed that their teams weren't asked to do it but I'm not one of them. I really wouldn't want to be bothered with that right now. If I knew we had a game at that particular time year, boy, I think that could throw you off your league schedule a little bit, I really do. Let's face it, you can do a whole lot, you can win that game, that don't mean nothing. The big boys are going to get all the breaks when it comes to getting in the tourney. That's what they fight for, that's what those conferences do and I don't care what the Mid-major conferences do, we're not getting in unless you put together a phenomenal season. You aren't getting in with 20 and 11. You aren't getting in with that. That's just the way it is. So I don't know if the Bracket Busters are really going to do the good that folks say they are. I hope it does, but I don't see it.

CigarBoy: Now it's time to talk about something important. Give me your top five movies.

Coles: Top Five, wooooo

CigarBoy: You have the reputation of being the movie man.

Coles: Yes I do!

CigarBoy: We have people from coast-to-coast waiting to go see a movie this weekend based upon what you say.

Coles: Let me tell you this right now, My Big Fat Greek Wedding is phenomenal. That movie there, I've seen it 3 times in 4 days. I've seen it 4 times in 7 days. I drove my wife and daughter to see it with me. I got my son, made him see it with me.

CigarBoy: Saw it in Oxford?

Coles: No we saw it over in Hamilton.

CigarBoy: You can see movies for free. You're Coach. You're a big star here in Oxford. They let you in for free don't they?

Coles: Nooooo

CigarBoy: You have to pay? You haven't worked a trade out where you can get in?

Coles: No, but I've got some coupons I use, that people give me because they know I like to go to the show.

CigarBoy: OK, that's one.

Coles: Yeah, that's one, but you got to see that one. Don't underestimate that one. Then, Road to Perdition is good. I think it tells a nice story there. I think it tells a wonderful, wonderful story. It's simply about a guy raising his kid under adverse conditions, he's on the run, and it gets good late. You start out and you are trying to figure out what's going on. Me and my daughter watched that one. We kind of figured out what was going on and then all of a sudden it began to tell a wonderful story. Kind of sad at the end. I've only seen that once for a reason. I wanted to wait awhile because I know it's going to be on. I'm going to go back in the next 6-7 days to see it. Now, this third one is my odd one, Minority Report. I usually don't like those kind of movies because the Sci-Fi thing kind of blows my mind. I like gangster movies, I like light romance -not heavy, any kind of athletic stories, that sort of thing. Now the fourth one is going to throw you off too. I've just seen it. I don't like the whole movie but there's parts in there.. Austin Powers, his latest movie, Gold Member or whatever. I like it because it's silly. Some of the things they say in there I don't like but other things I like. I don't think it's extremely dirty or anything, I think it's OK. Haven't been able to get anybody to go with me on that one because they just say, "Nah! Austin Powers? No no no!" Now, on the fifth one, I don't know if I can give you a fifth one right now, cause I would have to think hard and long... I didn't see Tommy Lee and Will Smith in Men In Black II, I just said no, I wouldn't have seen that. So I'd be hard pressed for a fifth one right now. I've seen a lot of movies this summer but I'd have to really think about that one.

CigarBoy: Well, since you are the coach, we are in your office, at your university, we'll make it the top four. Now I need a Todd Lickliter story.

Coles: Well, there's several. Let's see, what's the best one.

CigarBoy: Because tomorrow, I'm going to ask him for a story about you.

Coles: Ah, OK. What's the best one about Todd? There's a lot, there's a lot. The best story about Todd is probably not a funny story as much...you'd probably laugh more about it later than now, but Todd is such a con man that he's managed to get Howard Garfinkle to think that he misses working his Five Star Camp. Garf loves Todd. When Todd found out college coaches couldn't work the camp, Todd went into this big sob story, "Oh no, I can't work Garf's camp," and I think Garf fell for it. Now the true test, if this gets out to Garf, is for Todd to work the camp next year.

CigarBoy: I have to tell you something about Todd. He did not want to be interviewed after you. He wanted to be interview before you. I think he said something like "I cannot be interviewed after Coach Coles. Once he says it, there's nothing left to say."

Coles: Yeah?

CigarBoy: Yeah!

Coles: Me and him, that's how we met, working Five Star. Neither one of us realized.... we were like uh-oh, what did we get ourselves into? So we ate every meal together, we use to walk over to the Ground Round every lunchtime.

CigarBoy: I heard about you, Todd, and Big Chill (Ed Schilling, Sr.) having Starbucks coffee together.

Coles: Oh yeah, that was good, real good too. But Todd will understand when you tell him that.

CigarBoy: Now last question here. Give something you've always wanted to do you haven't done. It could be basketball, it could be in your life, it could be with the Miami team.

Coles: There are two things I would like to do. First thing is... I like to drive... I would like to drive cross-country in a big semi-truck because I've always said if I wasn't a coach, I'd be a truck driver. That really fits me.

CigarBoy: With a cab on the back?

Coles: Oh yeah, yeah, I'd love that. The second thing I'd like to do is I'd like to take a course, maybe a two-week course, to learn how to cook. And I'd like to prepare a meal for at least eight people. Being a chef really excites me. I would love to be a person who says, taste that, and they'd say 'oh boy how'd you do that?' If I could do that, I would. It couldn't be a long term one but a week or two, and then prepare the meal for at least eight people, that would be the second thing I'd like to do. When I see people who can really really cook.... I had an aunt that could cook better than anyone in my family. Everybody use to joke about how she loved cooking for me. She had raised my dad. She could really cook. She could make biscuits with yeast in them, and those biscuits would look like they would grow. She'd take them out of the oven and you'd see them grow and put butter and jelly on those things. She could prepare a chicken so many ways. One time she'd have chicken and she'd have some kind of sauce over it. Next time it would be browned with mushrooms. To me, if I could do that, I would be king. I'm serious. Way back, if I thought I could be a real good chef, I may have wanted to be a chef over coaching. I really mean that. And driving, I just like to do it. My rule on driving is, here's a good one for you, and it's not much, but college coaches love to stay somewhere all night. Get me a room. I rarely stay anywhere all night. I like to get back home, sleep in my own bed, wake up in my town in the morning. Well, the last day of recruiting, I went up to Chicago to see a kid. On the south side of Chicago at Dillonridge High School. My assistant had told my secretary to get a room. I told him, don't get me a room. I woke up at 3:00 in the morning, I was on the road at 3:45. I gained an hour. I pull into the high school, the kid walked out at 8:00. I pulled into the High School at a quarter 'til 8. All the local boys were there UIC, Loyola-Chicago, Northern Illinois had drove up 60 miles. Rob Judson was whining about the sixty miles he had to drive. Now Southern Illinois, they must have stayed all night the night before. Then there was Ball State there, and they had an hour and a half shorter distance than me. Well, anyway, I watched the kid work out, drove back home and at 3:30, I was sitting watching golf before I came into the office. I was going to come into the office about 5:00 that day. Now, I say to you, if I'd stayed all night the night before, if I did all that.. I didn't loose out on anything and so I like to do that. I don't try to drive when I'm sleepy, I don't do that. If I had to do something like that ten times, ten times I would drive and ten times I would come back. That's why I would like to drive across the country and drive a semi.

CigarBoy: I'm sure this is the best hour of the day I'm going to have today and I look forward to seeing you at the Nutt house next year.

Coles: OK, glad right, right. So you are going to Butler tomorrow?

CigarBoy: We're at Butler tomorrow, 12 noon at Hinkle, with the Big Chill. Supposedly I'm supposed to buy lunch. We'll have to see how that works out. I gotta tell you, I hate buying lunch for guy that drives a 2002 Cadillac when I drive a Grand Am.

Coles: Hey, hey, Big Chill....I told you this story last year. When I saw Big Chill playing at UC, Big Chill strolls out on the floor. This is before he transferred to Butler. So here's UC, they've got Rollin West, Dave Cosby, they got a nice freshman, great freshman team. Here's these two white guys coming out there, and you just say to yourself, who in the hell are these guys? Hoods all the way. You got the Chill from the eastside of Cleveland, East High! 79th and Cedar - East High! (laughing) I think it's on 79th and Cedar. It's the school that produced Don Hills. So here's Chill out there, and then there's a guy named Surban out there who use to wear a little hat over his head, you know. So now I'm watching those guys, first time I'd seen Chill. And I never put it together. Eddie came here and I was coaching for Central Michigan and I never put that together. Then when I met him, he gave me his history and I said, You're the guy. Boy, I thought you were a gangster all the way man. Then I am at Five Star and Chill said I can dunk. This was Summer of '93. Chill said, " I can dunk the ball." Come on now, you're 47 years old, you can't dunk the ball. Chill went over and dunked the ball. So Chill is my man. He's my man for all seasons and all reasons. I mean that. He's a wonderful man. And Todd Lickliter? Two criminals right there. Watch yourself over there at Butler.

CigarBoy: Thanks coach, I will! Well that's a wrap! Thank you for a great interview!

Coles: No problem!

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