On a beautiful Saturday I head to historic Hinkle Fieldhouse to interview Butler University Basketball Coach Todd Lickliter. We are joined by former Butler basketball great and Hall of Famer Ed Schilling, better known as Big Chill. Big Chill is serving as the Official CigarBoy Photographer for this interview.

We start out doing the interview in the actual arena. After one question I look up and Big Chill is sweating like a pig. So we move the interview into Coach Lickliter's office. As the interview progresses it becomes evident that Coach Lickliter is the model of sincerity. He is a real straight shooter. He spends his time with basketball, his family and reading books. He doesn't spend a lot of time watching sports, doesn't visit a lot of fancy restaraunts, and rarely plays golf. He is really a simple man. What you see is what you get.

Flashy is not a word that gets tossed his way too often. But after spending time with Coach Lickliter, you walk away saying "that was time well spent!" He can get a little animated when taking a shot at Big Chill or telling stories with Big Chill.

So it is with great pride that I can present a new CigarBoy Fav....Coach Todd Lickliter.

CigarBoy: OK, question number one, going into the season, this is the first time Butler is not automatically ranked number one in the Horizon League.. .

Lickliter: It's not the first time..

CigarBoy: First time in years.

Lickliter: In a while, yeah.

Big Ed (Schilling): (Interrupts for instructions on operating a camera) Do I have to push this every time?

CigarBoy: Yes, and you have to rewind it every time too.

Lickliter: (To Ed) You'll learn, you'll learn. That's why when he (Big Ed) was here, can you imagine Coach Hinkle winning with a guy who can't work a camera? That's pretty good, huh? THAT's why Hinkle's a legend. (Laugh)

CigarBoy: I don't think he can't change a lightbulb either. (chuckles)

Lickliter: But you know, I said the other day, I don't know where we'll be rated pre-season with the conference. It's not going to be where we were last year. I know that! We say all the time; the reason we love competition is because you throw ratings out the window. Nobody cared last year in this league what we were rated they just came at us. So it won't matter on the reverse side.

CigarBoy: You graduated an awful lot of experience from last year. How do you see that being replaced this year?

Lickliter: Well, I don't know. You never know that until you tune-up, practice, and so on. I read a book this summer called "The Sweet Season" about the St. John's football team, St. John's Minnesota. The guy is one of the all-time winningest football coaches in the history of the game. And one of the last lines was, "every year you have to replace the irreplaceable and somehow you are able to do it." Hopefully, this program is well established and the people who are involved in it understand that it's never been one guy, even two guys, but a group of people that have pulled together, tried to mesh their different skills. Hopefully, it'll continue.

CigarBoy: Kind of walk me through your team this year: What you are expecting from your players, what fans can look forward to from Butler.

Lickliter: Well, I don't think that the system will change very much but we adapt each year and kind of massage it, evaluate, and see what we are going to remove from what we have in the system and then how we are going to add to it. We've got basically three starters returning because Mike Moserez our sixth man played starter minutes. We will miss the three seniors: Scott Robisch, Thomas Jackson, Rylan Hainje, a great deal. They are the all-time winningest class in Butler history. So their absence would never be taken lightly. But hopefully as we evaluate, we'll have people that have waited their turn supposedly and are ready to contribute.

CigarBoy: How do you see the Horizon League shaping up. What do you look for in the Horizon League this year?

Lickliter: Well again, I don't spend a great deal of time on the overall league or overall schedule. We joke all the time. My staff says, "if it doesn't have to do with us or our next opponent, I don't know what's going on out there." We take them like that old cliche', one at a time. I do have a great deal of respect for the Horizon League. When you look at last year, we're 13-0, 20th in the nation and our first game out, Wright State beats us in double overtime. We knew they were going to be well prepared and very difficult to play against and it didn't get any easier through out the league. It's been that way since I've been involved in it. I have a lot of respect for the coaches in the league and the way they approach the game.

CigarBoy: What's your overall coaching philosophy? Can you fit it into a few words?

Lickliter: I don't know if I have an overall coaching philosophy? I don't know if you are a parent or not, but what's your overall parenting philosophy? It's a deal where you better know the fundamentals and then you better be able to react accordingly in the situation. Be very perceptive and try to build relationships with the people within your family.

CigarBoy: What is your overall recruiting philosophy as you look at players?

Lickliter: Well, we have to have really good players to overcome the coaching, mine alone (chuckle). I believe that if you are going to put a team together, that I read somewhere that it's the unification of purpose, diversification of skills. So we just look and see how does each person fit. We don't necessarily look at size. I learned through the years that size is not the biggest thing, as far as height. We like big hearts and great vision and those sorts of things. So now, we just evaluate on character, skill and how they fit.

CigarBoy: What was the highlight of last year? And the next question is going to be what were the low lights.

Lickliter: When do you start last year? The biggest highlight for me last year was having the respect and the support of a group of individuals that you've come to appreciate - being our players. When the job came open, they came out in force on my behalf. That was a highlight for me because I think we all want to be appreciated, especially from people we respect. So that was the highlight. We really enjoyed each other a great deal last year, but as we won, the one thing I would say that we didn't do is we probably didn't enjoy what was accomplished last year. We've looked back and we've said a few times, how about it, we actually beat every team on our schedule other than Syracuse. So in the regular season, I think we were 1 of 2 teams in the nation that beat every one on their schedule at least once. I don't see how that can happen very often in a guy's career.

CigarBoy: Is there a low point in the season?

Lickliter: Well absolutely. I immediately go to the shot going in during the Horizon League Tournament. You know, we still had a chance. We ran a terrific play. Our guys executed it and I'd throw it back to Brandon Miller every time. I believe in him but you can't ask a guy to get every big shot for you. He'll do it a majority of the time but it just happened that it wasn't our night that night. We'd had a tough time right before that. It didn't crush our guys. They were disappointed, but I thought they responded awfully well. To be put into the NIT, as we said, hey we like to play so we appreciate the opportunity. Then we went and beat Bowling Green. Bowling Green was about as good as any team we played all year. We played awfully well there so.. again the character showed.

CigarBoy: I want to go back to recruiting for a second. Do you try to cover your home state area, Indiana and then go out from there? Are there a couple of key states that you work really hard? Do you work your contacts from Five Star Camp? Walk me through how you get your men.

Lickliter: One thing that's nice is that we've had some success. We have a certain style of program and it attracts people and we've had some exposure. We really don't limit ourselves but we know there's players in the mid-west, that's for sure. I think it's more a case where I'm 47 years old and I've been in the game a long time so I'm fortunate that I have good contacts. Five Star was obviously instrumental in my career, but I just try to use all the contacts I have. I think in any business, networking is pretty big.

CigarBoy: How'd you first get involved in Five Star?

Lickliter: Oh gosh.the Schilling family got me involved. I got to be honest. Eddy's who's at Wright State, his father who played here at Butler. When he was coach college ball he recruited me out of high school, I don't know if you know that or not, but he was the coach of Marion College and I, like everybody else thought that I was a Division I player. Probably would have had a great career at Marion. He keeps telling me we would have won the national tournament so he must have had confidence in me. But, I'm glad I went to Butler. I'm very thankful I had the opportunity to play here, but I'm sure I would have enjoyed that. So we go back. Then when the NCAA disallowed the Division I coaches from coaching at camps. Then they needed someone for instruction, more than the coaches. They have special instructional formats there at Five Star. They trusted Wright State Coach Eddie Schilling and his father a great deal. So Howard Garfinkel, who runs Five Star actually called me on the phone. I got to talking to him and I said, " Yeah, I'd be glad to come out there." I was pretty green. I had all my bags, waiting at the airport and no way to get there. I had to split a cab with some guy. He wasn't even going to Robert Morris where the camp was held. They dropped me off. My first night there I had a salad with Mr. Garfinkel. We talked and then went to work the next day and hit it off, I think, really well. It was a great experience for me. You just meet so many passionate coaches at Five Star.

CigarBoy: Now you coached high school against Wright State coach, Ed Schilling, right? Any good stories there?

Lickliter: Yes. I don't think it happened at our game but his father actually got thrown out of a couple of his games, so that was always good because I knew that when we were playing, that we had this chance of a little excitement, you know. (laughing) I became a big fan of Ed Schilling, Jr.. He was young, just like me when I first started. I actually was head coach before I was an assistant. As soon as I came out of Butler, I received a head coaching position here at a small private school here in the city and never was an assistant. Eddie did the same thing at Western Boone High School. I just saw he had that passion, but actually I knew him before that. I ran a summer camp at Park Tudor School where I was with Mike Woodson, Randy Whittman, and Jim Thomas. I knew players and Eddie when he was in high school worked the camp for me. And then at lunch when everyone would go and sit down and relax, Eddie would go in and do all the drills. I just knew there was something special about him. He just loved the game. We kind of go back and I enjoy the competitive nature of it, and I always respected what he did.

CigarBoy: Now at Five Star, you were also an instructor with Charlie Coles, the Miami coach. What was that like?

Lickliter: (Chuckling) Well you know, I think Charlie Coles has a wonderful perspective. He knows how to put a twist on things. He's so analytical and he'll always relate it. I was telling somebody yesterday, they said. "You need to take a break." I said, "Nah, you don't understand, I'm really not working I just doing what Charlie Coles calls the Louie Tiant ." He said when Louie Tiant was late in his career he just kind of changed up things. He'd talk to the crowd and keep everybody off balance. He prolonged his career but he wasn't working nearly as hard as everybody thought he was. So when you are kind of going through the motions and tricking people, he would call it a Louie Tiant. Charlie taught me a lot.

CigarBoy: Now do you have a good Charlie Coles story for the record? Because I've got to tell you, he pulled out one on you.

Lickliter: Oh he did? Oh gosh. (Chuckling) There are so many . . .

CigarBoy: He said the same thing about you.

Lickliter: You know we spent two weeks together. The first two weeks that I worked Five Star were the first two weeks he worked Five Star and we still talk about the first night we were there. Garf was doing the introductions and somebody was talking out in the crowd. Garf told him he did a solo and didn't need any help. So that's what we tell our team if they aren't paying attention. We do like Garf and tell them we do a solo. Charlie he did a station called "shots of the 90's". He told Garf, "Garf I played during the 50's, I don't have any shots in the 90's. I don't know what those are" So he's over there doing these shots. I don't know where he got them. He probably went to Little Chill (Eddie Schilling) to find out what the shots of the 90's were you know. So then he started implementing them. Well, I'm teasing him about it, him being a fundamental guy doing all these different things. I'm on him about it and Pete Carrill, the Princeton coach, comes in. He's watching so I say to him, "hey Coach Carrill is this some of the stuff you did at Princeton?" Because they were known for their backdoor pass and the fundamental stuff. I said, " Look at what Charlie Coles is doing over here. He's ruining the game." (laughing) Charlie's not wanting to do it so he's just standing there. But the beautiful part is that Pete said, " Yeah, I teach some of that." I thought, this guy is really innovative. Yeah they've got the beautiful back door but they also know how to finish different ways and it made me realize that, hey, maybe you've got to finish different ways. So I didn't get on Charlie any more after that. I let him go ahead and teach his shots. I wonder if he's teaching the shots of the 2000's now?.

CigarBoy: He once said one of his ambitions in life was to have a Station 13 tournament with Butler, Miami, Pete Gillen in Virginia, and Ed Schilling at Wright State. (laughing)

Lickliter: You know, last year in the NIT, I think there was, help me out, Memphis was there, John Calipari was in the finals, Odom from South Carolina, he's Five Star guy. Syracuse is Garf's school I guess. I forget who else but as I looked at it, I thought, wouldn't that be something if Butler could get there and we could have a final four in the NIT, in New York, and have all Five Star guys. We weren't too far away, got beat on the last shot.

CigarBoy: Little Coach Ed Schilling got inducted into the Five Star Hall of Fame this year.

Lickliter: Oh, did he really? No wonder he had his chest out so much during July. He was really proud. That's what it was. I thought it was because his wife was expecting. But no, that's what it was about. That's quite and honor. I didn't realize that. I better send him a card or something.

CigarBoy: Who were your biggest influences on you as a person and your development as a coach in your developmental years, whatever those years were?

Lickliter: I don't think there's any doubt, my parents. My father was a high school coach for about 18 years and people would say, well you go all your coaching style and everything from him. I got my passion for the game from him. I love the game of basketball and I think he developed that. We didn't know any different and I'm thankful for that. But as far my coaching philosophy and style I received that from my mother. I think, I hope anyway, that I coach the way she parented. She's very service oriented and cared a great deal. She was very sacrificial. She sacrificed and was very willing to do so to make the "team", the family run. She also had a passion for the games. She's so excited to be here at Butler and come to the games and travel with us. We are going to the Rainbow Classic this year and I know she's going to go to Hawaii with us. It wouldn't matter where it's at, she just wants to go watch us play.

CigarBoy: She doesn't ever come help coach does she?

Lickliter: Well, I call her when I get home. (Laughing) Everybody helps coach don't they? But I would say they were the greatest influence without a doubt. Then I've had the opportunity to be around a lot of fine coaches and I've tried to, kind of, steal from each one of them.

CigarBoy: Let me ask you about the Bracket Busters. There has been a lot of talk about that. Three teams from the Horizon League are in it, four if you would have accepted. You told them no. What went into your decision to not play in the Bracket Busters.

Lickliter: I think I weighed it out. I tried to do my best to evaluate the concessions versus the benefits. I understand it's a great concept with a lot of national exposure and I think it warranted a very good look but during the time they were asking us to do it, it was the middle of the conference season. You wouldn't know who your opponent was going to be and you would have to move two games and we are already a nine-team league. So now you are possibly going to condense your season even more. I didn't think it was fair to our players to ask them to continually respond like that. They are a great crew but ... as you may know, the format for the tournament has changed in the Horizon League. There's more emphasis on league placement and regular season so I thought that was important and I knew how difficult the league was going to be. I really believe if you want to see a Bracket Buster, you can probably watch a Horizon League game and there's going to be..well there are three teams that were asked to go to this event. There's probably another 3 or 4 more that can do some damage. So I just thought it was a very difficult schedule already. We are going to play at Duke at the end of January on national TV. So although I agree with the concept and I appreciate the invitation, I just thought it was in our best interest not to do it this year.

CigarBoy: Talk a little bit about the NCAA tournament selection process. It seems to have changed a little bit in terms of what they are weighing now. RPI seems a lot more important than it was ten years ago. Everyone's talking RPI now and it tends to be stacked against mid-majors like the Butler's of the world. What's your take on it?

Lickliter: Did you ever have someone do a "no comment" on you?

CigarBoy: No, no one's ever done that.

Lickliter: (laughing) No one's ever taken the Fifth, huh? I think that last year was a very difficult decision for us to handle. I see the criteria. The one thing that I would ask is that they officially weigh the criteria. They'll give you the criteria, I don't have it in front of me, but they list the approximately 10 items they take into consideration but I would like to know the weight of each one of those. I also think it's very difficult at our level to predict what your RPI's going to be because what you do is that you schedule the best programs you can that will return a game. But who knows? Right now, if you looked at our average RPI over the last few years and you saw that Butler has been in the NCAA tournament two out of the last three, and the NIT second round, you'd say that's a pretty good program. If we had another Mid-major schedule us, you would think that that's a good schedule but you don't know how we are going to play next year. You don't know what's going to happen and you are not going to be able to schedule home at home teams that without a doubt are going to have higher RPI's. So you owe it to your fans to get people back to your home court and the only way you can do it is to schedule "traditionally" strong programs. You can't predict yearly. I'll give you an example. The Bracket Busters, they are not going to announce who's playing who. They are going to weigh and announce it maybe two weeks before. Well, I think they are going to see where the match-ups are going to lie. So at this level it's really hard to predict. All you can predict is that they are strong programs and they are going to be traditionally strong, but yearly is hard. So it makes it really difficult. The other thing I would say on RPI is that, there's so little consideration taken for travel and what you do on the road. I'll give you an example. We played Northern Iowa here on a Saturday afternoon this past year. They were a very good team, hard to prepare for. Sunday we flew to Baltimore, drove to where Mt. St. Mary's is, and played them Monday night. They had struggled but two years ago when we scheduled them, they were an NCAA team, but they struggled last year. They have a great coach. We played that night, got up the next morning (Tues) very early, drove back to Baltimore, flew home and played Ball State who was 21st in the nation, on Wednesday, up there, and we won. All those games, there is no way, with what we went through and still won was taken into consideration. That win wasn't rated any higher than if we would have had 4 days to prepare and we were at home. I think that's something that needs to be considered. I don't know how but I think it needs it.

CigarBoy: With that being said, since you touched on it, let me see if I can formalize your philosophy on scheduling now. You hit parts of it. See if you can put it in a few word for me.

Lickliter: We want to play stronger opponents. We want to prepare. We want to play different opponents, people who play different styles. But we definitely want them to come to Hinkle Fieldhouse. I think we have something special here. We have a fan base that we are very proud of. We are excited about their enthusiasm. It's just not right to go on the road all the time and not get a return game. So we look to play strong opponents that will return a game to Hinkle and we've got a couple scheduled this year.

CigarBoy: What's your favorite memory the Hinkle? When you played, coached, it can be any time. If you had pick a favorite memory in this beautiful facility what is it?

Lickliter: I don't know if you can pick a favorite, but I've got to be honest with you, when I go back out there, I almost always think of games that I played in. I've had the opportunity to coach here and I really enjoy big games, but there's something about taking the floor as a player that's really special. I guess I usually go back to when we played Ohio State on the 50th Anniversary of Hinkle Fieldhouse. Tony Hinkle was in the stands and about 10,000 people were here. We beat them on the last second shot when they had Calvin Ramsey and Herb Williams and a really, really good team. That was a special moment for me and I did get to play a little bit that game and we STILL beat them so that's good. (chuckle)

CigarBoy: Now I want to talk a little bit about the coaches out there and get a few comments from you. I'm going to name a coach, you give me a few words. John Calipari.

Lickliter: Oh gosh, really a great guy. To be honest with you. I feel like he's a good friend. He's somebody that's a great resource and from watching his teams they execute and they play with a great deal of passion. I like John, he's a good guy.

CigarBoy: Thad Matta.

Lickliter: Relentless worker. I don't know if people know that but he has a work capacity that is second to none. His teams play tough. He's a special guy because, I coached him when he was a junior here when I was an assistant coach and we've remained great friends.

CigarBoy: Bob Huggins

Lickliter: He's gotta' be tough. I don't know Coach Huggins very well but his team plays as tough as any team I've seen and he must be a tough guy. I like their style. You know what you are going to get when you go against Cincinnati.

CigarBoy: Perry Watson

Lickliter: Oh gosh. He's a great resource too. He's been in the league a long time. I think he has an eye for talent. He puts together a team that's very well disciplined and executes very well and they play tough too. I have a lot of respect for Coach Watson.

CigarBoy: Larry Farmer

Lickliter: Does a great job. What a terrific guy. Last year they had a nice run. We talked a little bit before the game about his days at UCLA and he gave me some great insight. I think he's one of the true gentlemen of the game.

CigarBoy: Oliver Purnell

Lickliter: He's doing a terrific job at Dayton. We played against them when I was at Eastern Michigan. We went down, and we had Earl Boykins and they beat us in there. It's always been a tough place to play but he's got a great tradition going at Dayton.

CigarBoy: Let me come back the Charlie Cole. Anything you want to throw in?

Lickliter: He's a special guy in a game because he keeps it in perspective. He's extremely competitive but I would say that his players absolutely love him. His peers love him and he's a guy that is truly good for the game of basketball.

CigarBoy: Dan Dakich

Lickliter: Tough. His teams execute. They make is so difficult to guard them because they are constantly countering. We've always gotten along well I think and there is a respect. That was as tough a game as I saw all year, Bowling Green - Butler last year.

CigarBoy: Brad Soderburg

Lickliter: Executes. We actually played against them when he was at Wisconson, when they had done so well. I thought he did a great job with that group. I know he'll do a very good job in St. Louis. They did a terrific job of guarding. He really teaches how to defend and then they execute in the half court very well. They'll be difficult to play against.

CigarBoy: Scott Drew

Lickliter: You know I don't know Scott very well but he's been instrumental in what they've done. I think it's great that he's go a chance now and that he's earned that and I'm sure he'll keep it going.

CigarBoy: Bruiser Flint

Lickliter: Good guy. Know him just a little bit because he's with Coach Calipari. Got to know him a little bit there and I've just heard really good things about him. I know this, I wouldn't want to follow Coach Calipari, one of the greats of the game, and he did a terrific job of doing that and I'm sure he'll do a good job now.

CigarBoy: Little Ed Schilling

Lickliter: Well, he's special. When you ask me about Coach, we go way back. I just have tremendous respect for the WAY he does things. As we talked before, he has passion for the game, he understands the game, he was a terrific player at Miami but he also is a first class individual. His team reflects his values and passion for the game.

CigarBoy: One thing I want to do is paint a picture of you for the fans out there of Todd Lickliter when he's not in his office at Hinkle Fieldhouse, the two hours a day you aren't here. I know you are a big family guy but do you play sports, do you watch sports, do you chill out, do you read books? What do you do in your spare time.

Lickliter: Well, I've got a set of golf clubs in the trunk of my car that haven't been out. The shoes aren't even laced. I keep thinking I'm going to play but I never find the time to do it. No, I'm not a big spectator either. I respect what teams do and strategies but I don't watch a lot of other sports. I'm a huge basketball fan. When I go to the sports page I read about basketball. I go to transactions I like to see what moves teams make. I enjoy all that a great deal. I guess I'm a pretty shallow guy because basketball is pretty consuming. When I'm not here I enjoy my family. I have three sons. One will be a senior in college and one will be a freshman in college. They both participate in athletics but they are just fun to be around. I just enjoy them. Then I have a younger son that will be a 7th grader. I think he's got a real good chance to be a real good basketball player but he's just fun to be around too. We do a lot together. I take him on trips and that sort of thing. Of course my wife is, I guess, a trooper. She's hung with me through everything that we've done and the ups and downs. She's a hard worker and been very supportive so we just enjoy spending time together. We went for a walk before I came over and we just talked about the state of affairs and discussed it. Then of course I love to read. I try to read to keep a book going all the time. I would say that if I'm not at Hinkle, I'm pretty much at home or with my family.

CigarBoy: Last question, anything in your life yet that you haven't done that you want to do?

Lickliter: (Laughing) Oh gosh, I guess we all dream. I don't think that there'd be anything that if something were to happen, that I'd say my life wouldn't be complete. I'm very thankful for what I've had the opportunity to do. I'm thankful that my children are all in good health and that I have a wonderful family and so on. You know of course, when you are in basketball, and you love to compete, which I do and you know that the National Championship is out there, it's a driving force. I would love to compete for that and be in that final game and see what happens. You only do that if you have great players and great people. I think this is a wonderful place and if I could do it from Butler University, which would just be icing on the cake.

CigarBoy: Ok, I think that's a wrap

Big Ed:So we go out to eat. Eddy and I are there, Garf is going to join us. Our waitress was a bitch, just awful, mean, horrible, We'd ask a question and she'd answer questions with "well, it's right THERE on the menu." He shows up later and there's a big, beautiful, color picture of vegetable soup or something right there in front of him. He didn't pay attention. She comes up and he asks, "you got any vegetable soup?" She screams "RIGHT THERE!" (laughing) She was so ticked off and mean. Then he got horrible service. We get served and he didn't get his. Things went wrong and it was mostly against him. He was finishing up and we had to get back. I said "bull, I'm not leaving a tip". Eddy and I went to pay. The manager asked how everything was. Well I said, "It was horsecrap, this lady was so mean," and the manager said, "NO CHARGE" - so he didn't charge Eddie or me for our meal. We leave. Garf had the worst service. He left a tip AND he had to PAY. (laughing) So when I told Garf that me and Eddie got out for nothing , I thought he was going to die. I'm not kidding ya'. I thought he was going to die he was laughing so hard. Jumping up and down!...

Lickliter: What was the story, about Gotti had been in the restaurant?

Big Ed: Garf and Will Klein, who is so tight, he'd get a charge out of screwing them out of a nickel if he could. Will gave Todd the rental car to take back to the airport before you go there he said to fill it up because it's like $3-4 a gallon. Todd said, "Screw that", he just pulled-up, dropped it off - it was EMPTY.

Lickliter: I kept his money.. (chuckle) But the deal was, he was giving me the key to drop it off at the airport but the directions were awful. I got lost and I barely got to the airport on time, it was like really really early in the morning, and I was going to miss my flight. By getting lost, I only had time to run the car down to the rental place.

Big Ed: It was like 20 gallons

Lickliter: Well, yeah. But believe me, he got it back. I promise you, he got the money back.

Big Ed: But he's so tight. I even gave him a plaque. Were you there when I gave it to him?

Lickliter: Something about a dime.

Big Ed: Yeah, I got a dime from him for something the year before so I had it mounted on a plaque that says "The only dime Will Klein ever gave away. Who says you can't get blood out of a turnip?" And he still has that in his office today.

Lickliter: He's actually a good guy. I like him.

Big Ed: Oh, yeah he's basically good. So he and Garf are in this restaurant and Will has real dry humor. They are trying to talk and this waitress kept coming over and Garf keeps talking to her and Will's trying to get rid of her. So Will says, "Let me ask you a question. Ever have any famous people in here?" She said John Gotti ate there once a week or something. He goes, "Well, is he a pretty good tipper?" She said, "Oh, my God, yeah huge" Well, its going to even out today. (laughing)

[Note: They continued telling stories for another twenty minutes.]

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