The Adjudicator's Side - by Paul and Sandra Smuts-Steyn
Hi Jay
Jay, in the last few issues of your excellent magazine we have seen adjudicators coming in for a lot of criticism. In your own words, if people do not defend themselves they stand condemned. Without becoming embroiled in a bun-fight or any political arguments, we would like to try and correct some of the fallacies and misconceptions, of which there are plenty about adjudicators. At the same time we hope to share a little of our hard-earned experience to benefit those competitors who would want and appreciate it.

We competed many years as both amateurs and professionals and since retiring from competition, teach and adjudicate. So we have experienced competition from all 3 sides.

When we were competing, there were times that we felt we had been marked down by unscrupulous "cheating judges",  who favoured their own couples - after all, we felt as if we had danced like the Hiltons, and our very knowledgeable parents (none of whom had ever competed) agreed that we looked miles better than anybody else! Jay, it is no exaggeration to say that every single competitive couple has had the very same experience at some stage!

It is an extremely long, hard process to become an adjudicator. Most adjudicators have competed before and all have studied the theory of dance and have had to pass exams in both theory and practical of the styles that they adjudicate. Most adjudicators are therefore justifiably proud of their qualifications and adjudicating skills and will not compromise their integrity or reputation to "cheat" for a couple by marking them into a position they do not deserve.

There are various safeguards in place to stop an adjudicator cheating. For instance: no adjudicator may adjudicate a direct relation, i.e. son, daughter, brother, sister, husband or wife; no more than one adjudicator from a studio may serve on a panel; there must be a minimum of 3 adjudicators for a festival and 5 for championships or world trials.

The system of scrutineering used ensures that the majority of closest markings will count for a couple. Example: If a couple is marked first, fourth and fourth, the first will not count and the couple will finish fourth. Therefore, should an adjudicator cheat in favour of a particular couple, that mark will be discarded. Unless, of course, they are in cohorts with the majority of the adjudicators to mark the same couple, which is obviously highly unlikely as all the adjudicators on any panel are from different studios.

Since we have been adjudicating we have not once had anybody trying to influence us into marking any particular couple.

All the adjudicators know all the above very well. It also makes no sense for a teacher to mark their own couple undeservedly into first place,  because when the couple does not win, they will want to know why from their teacher. This teacher will then have no answer because he or she has marked the couple first. Any teacher worth his or her salt will not do this, as it will make the teacher appear foolish in the eyes of the couple. The teacher will also not be able to give the couple anything positive to work on for the next competition - obviously not in the couple's best interest.

Now look at what an adjudicator has to do:
They have to study each couple's timing, music-ality, poise, posture, technique, footwork, move- ment, body positions in relation to each other, floor-craft, correct characterisation of the particular dance, presentation, togetherness and fitness, plus any particular strong or weak points. Then the couple has to be compared with the other couples on the floor. Then, when the adjudicator has decided on a position for the couple, he or she has to find the couple's number! And how much time does an adjudicator have to do all this? Each dance lasts one-and-a-half minutes - with 6 couples in a final, that means an average of 15 seconds per couple. If it is a semi-final with 12 couples, the time comes down to 7½ seconds per couple!
Still think its easy? Then consider the following situations that adjudicators have to cope with all the time:

  1. What do you do if, on the first glance around the floor, the only couple dancing in time looks terrible?
  2. You decided to mark that couple first, but by the time you have written down their number, they've gone out of time and three others are now in time?
  3. What do you do if you look around and all the couples look horrible?
  4. What do you do if you get one couple with a great guy and a bad girl and another couple with a bad boy and a great girl?
  5. What do you do if one couple has bad feet and good tops, while another couple has the opposite?
  6. What do you do if you see a couple doing a wonderful Viennese Waltz - the wrong way around the floor? (Don't laugh - a couple that won a section at the last South African Championships did just that at a competition that I judged earlier last year!)
These are just some of the questions that adjudic-ators have to ask themselves every time they judge.
Remember, there are many variables: no couple dances the same every competition, nor every round. Not every couple dances in every competi-tion, so the level of competition varies every time. Also, adjudicators do not look at the same couples simultaneously, so a couple might make a mistake in one group that only one adjudicator sees.

Those of you who were lucky enough to watch the World 10 Dance Champion-ship on eTV on Sunday, 16th January, will have heard Lindsay Hillier's commentary in which she said that a couple's mark depends on the performance of that couple at the particular moment that any adjudicator studies them, since a couple's performance varies in each dance from moment to moment.

Furthermore, what some couples do not realize, is that an adjudicator's markings do not represent whether the adjudicator likes or dislikes that couple's dancing, but rather that couple's perform-ance IN RELATION to the other couples on the floor. You could be dancing really well but only be placed sixth because the other couples on the floor danced better.

There are two bits of advice we would like to offer to competitors. The first is, if you lose- do not blame the adjudicators, or look for the fault in the adjudicators. This is counter-productive and your dancing will not improve. Rather look within yourself and at your own dancing and ask yourself: "What am I not giving the adjudicator?"

The second is, if you want to know why an adjudicator marked you down then ask them. Do not approach them belligerently, demanding to know what the hell the problem is. Rather tactfully approach them after the comp and tell them that you would value their opinion of your dancing, as they are such respected judges. Most adjudicators will be only too happy to help.

Remember that adjudicators and competitors are united by the love of this great sport of ours. However, each competitor wants to win and each adjudicator wants a fair result, and that is where clashes occur.

The final point we would like to make is that it is a very strange phenomenon, but the people that complain about an unfair result are always the people that lost! The winners of each section believe the adjudicators to be great, whilst the majority of people that lose believe the adjudic-ators to be useless or biased. In all the years that we have been associated with the sport we have heard many complaints about adjudicators, but never once have we seen a couple that has been awarded first place give their trophy back, saying "Please, we think the adjudicators are useless - can we be awarded fourth place?" Makes you think, doesn't it?

Jay - we thank you for printing this article. Keep up the good work.

Paul and Sandra

Ed
Your well-put memo explaining the nuts & bolts from an adjudicator's point of view, and Cherie clarifying the mystery of "5 couples in the final" as a scrutineer, sweetly balances the scale of this month's assortment of letters. But more than that, it gives me heart to know that there are people in our sport who really care enough to take the trouble to supply positive input. Letters like these do our sport proud and help unite us and keep the dreg side at a minimum.

When dancers get it from the top, or from dancers with maningi mileage, then they tend to be extra receptive, extra conciliatory; and the message becomes more profound when seen in writing. Told in person, the message is isolated from the majority. The mass now have the privilege of receiving your words of wisdom. That's my point, DI spreads info widely and wildly.

Thanks for taking the trouble of putting your thoughts and experiences to paper; that  goes for the previous times you and Sandra willingly sent me info as well. The best way to promote dancing is to talk about it positively and constructively. If someone says something negative or disparaging about dancing, and it's normally those still learning, then there should always be an expert to counter-act or justify.

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Three Couples In A Final
Hi Jay
Thanks for your e-mail and assistance. I have written to Les Covaar re rules for FEDANSA. Now awaiting reply.

Thanks for printing my letters. You are certainly not a Bird Brain. The Skating System is very complicated. I will try and answer your question.

If there were heats and a Semi final you would never end up with three couples in a final.  This would only happen if it were a three-couple straight final.

Your confusion came with my saying, you could have as few as three in a final with maximum ticks, then five or six couples tie with the same number of ticks. In this case you would have to call back all eight or nine couples for the final. The Judges would then be asked to mark all eight or nine couples in order of preference. Only six placings would be awarded points.

The Point System is based on how many couples you have beaten in a final.

Let's say:

First place = 20 points
Second place = 15 points
Third place = 10 points
Fourth place =  7 points
Fifth place =  3 points
Sixth place =  1 point

If there were only four couples in a straight final (no previous heats) then the winning couple has only beaten three couples so the points are adjusted accordingly
i.e.:

First place = 10 points
Second place =  7 points
Third place =  3 points
Fourth place =  1 point

A single entry (no competition) will only get one point.
It is understandable why the question was asked in the first place. A sixth place, which only carries one point, can make a big difference to a couple who want to move to the next grade. If sixty points are required to move to the higher grade and the couple has already gained fifty-nine points that one point will enable them to move up in the next competition.

Hope this explanation is what you wanted.  I do hope dancers will be encouraged to write to Info with their queries no matter how trivial they seem.  I will do my best to answer them and I hope others will do the same.  If our opinions differ then it will be a good way to come to a final decision on which way is correct.  This would be great fun don’t you think?

Sorry about the delay but when the telephones are out of order e-mail is useless.  When the network is down then it is time to reinstate the Bushman, but now he cannot get through the flooded terrain.  You can’t win!

Will write again

Cherie
Zimbabwe

Ed
Cherie, I like, "I do hope dancers will be encouraged to write to DanceInfo with their queries no matter how trivial they seem.  I will do my best to answer them and I hope others will do the same." Well Cherie, there's no doubt, from the letters and the help officials offer these days, dance talk is freely and definitely on the up - another giant step forward for mankind.

Many thanks for all the trouble you take to answer questions concerning DanceSport. It's also  comforting to know that you'll be on standby for more.

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5 Couples In The Final

Dear Jay,
I am a qualified Scrutineer, so here is an explanation to the enquiry of seven couples in one final and only five in another.

In the skating system, a final is normally six couples but it is not always possible to get this.  Heats are run to eliminate the couples according to the majority of the Judges’ opinion.  In the first heat the Judges are asked to bring back ‘x’ amount of couples (it is normally half). Then the next heat they will be asked to pick ‘x’ amount of couples again (again, it should be half). In the semi-final there should be twelve couples so the final will have only six couples (pick six – half again). Judges as we all know do not always have the same opinion so you can have as few as three couples or as many as nine for a final. It is then put to the Chairman of Adjudicators and the Organisers to decide how many couples to bring into the finals.

The Judges do not place the couples first, second, etc., they merely put a tick next to the couples numbers they would like to bring back – this is done for each dance. The Scrutineer then adds up all the ticks for the couples marked and the ones with the most ticks go through to the next round or to the final (majority of opinion).

Say it is a three dance section with three Judges – number of ticks possible equals nine.  Then those closest to nine will also be in the final.

Reason for seven couples in a final
The Scrutineers have managed to get four or five couples that have the most ticks, then out of the remaining couples, you have a tie each having say four ticks.

For example you have four definites then three tie with the same number of ticks, then all three must be brought back into the final or made to re-dance (normally time does not allow for this) – so bringing seven back is better.

Reason for five couples in a final
Two couples are definites with the highest number of ticks; three couples have the closest to the highest number of ticks, giving you five for the final.  You now look at the remaining couples, three or four have tied with the same number of ticks. So you have to decide if you want five, eight or nine couples in the final.  In this case five is better.

If the beginning rounds have as many couples as thirty-five (we are lucky if we can get six couples for a straight final!) then those who have been eliminated for a five couple final should be able to appeal for the sixth place points for a final. The competitor has the right to ask to see how they were marked in a semi-final and pick up the points for a six couple final if they tied for it.

All competitive couples, especially those at the top should know the ‘Skating system’ for Scrutinising and more so the Judges and members of the DanceSport committees. These people should be able to answer your queries without having to consult with others.

I am glad Alan Sasnovski has replied to the other query by Elize Loots – explanation is perfect, Well Done Alan! Why don’t competitive couples study the rules?

I would like to congratulate Felix Moroder, Deanna Mouton and Caroline Poley for their ‘GUTS’ – they must be greatly admired for putting their complaints in writing to “Dance Info”.  We need a lot more people like this, if DanceSport is to progress.

Allen Hammond and Alan Sasnovski – you are mistaken, Felix Moroder is the mouthpiece for 99.9% of dancers and parents. The 98.9% are loading his gun, which he is firing on their behalf because due to possible repercussions they are too nervous to have their own say.

Felix – get onto the FEDANSA committee or any other committee and maybe we can then pursue the goal of “Rules must be stable and apply to all and not just the chosen few”

Jay – we love the honesty of your mag, the freedom of speech and the chance to be heard – keep it up!  If you ever get the “glossy cover” please continue to print the cheaper version for those who cannot afford the expensive mags thus keeping ALL informed. Please, please continue to print the results. Not everyone has the Internet like us.

I will be writing again, as I have a lot to say and at long last my letters will, hopefully not end up in the recycle bin or file 13!

Cherie Scott
Zimbabwe

Ed,
Now we are talking, now we are getting there!  I like; "I will be writing again, as I have a lot to say and at long last my letters will, hopefully not end up in the recycle bin or file 13!" That's the crucial paragraph, with the key sentence being, "a lot to say" and Cherie, don't spare a word, we want LOTS… let's get physically mental - LOQUACIOUS. DI is file 13, viva la difference… we collect what might seem like garbage to some, and then recycle it into sane, usable, intelligent dance gobbledygook. From there it gets plonked into DI's 13th file for historic storage. In fact, you have been promoted from scrutineer to DanceInfo's chief whip via Zim... Howzat!

Each sport has its own special character, its unique soul, but the soul, the core of our sport is horribly soiled, and sadly, this has been so since time immemorial - the universal competitive STIGMA, and is the main cause for guns being loaded, mud slinging, the politics, the malice, the bitchiness and the reason why many lose heart or leave competitive dancing prematurely or decline to pursue it. Every sport has its politics and problems, but ours seems to be over-malicious, an abnormal oppression, a chronic disease without a house Dr and the worst part of it is that those who don't like this sad side suffer because of it.

But all's not lost, Dr DI is throwing bones. She's pushing for answers, and gradually being heard; encouraging argument, continually requesting info and the freedom to enjoy. Dr DI is slowly releasing the awkward, oppressed silence that bedevils our sport. Did you know that DanceInfo SA is the only cheeky dance magazine in the world? so say her 2 readers abroad (all their friends read it). They think it's hilariously cocky, and that the others dance mags they read are too sedate and absolutely boring by comparison. Let's keep it that way - WRITE, argue, ask, defend, defy, praise, criticise, inform and more importantly, share the excitement and joys of dancing with all.

A sure cure for the "uglies" of our sport, is for the experts and the authorities to help by showing their true dedication and loyalty to the sport (like you have done), and they must do so with dignity and maturity. They must make the time to answer the dancer's questions and do it with respect, not get embroiled in personal nitpicking. We need a mature approach from the people who hold a mature position. This is not the dark age, where outspoken dancers were shackled to the wall of a rat infested dungeon as junk food for the rodents. Good grief! We're into the 21st century, the new South Africa, and dancers are still forbidden to speak their minds, OPPRESSED and DENIED.

No time to write? No problem, phone Jay and he'll arrange for you to dictate your story. The officials are writing themselves to death answering individual queries. In the Felix' affair alone, the authorities were legally obliged to answer 9 of his long letters. That's when I stopped counting, and there were many more to follow. Writing letters is an indispensable part of every official's job, whether he/she likes it or not.

Officials who don't think answering letters is an important part of their job should step down. The more DI helps with their day-to-day correspondence, the fewer queries there would be, and dancers will at least feel nothing is being shrouded or hidden from them - complete transparency, particularly when publicly announced.

Cherie, it's well worth repeating, "I would like to congratulate Felix Moroder, Deanna Mouton and Caroline Poley for their ‘GUTS’ – they must be greatly admired for putting their complaints in writing to “Dance Info”.  We need a lot more people like this, if DanceSport is to progress."

When we talk about these things, most associate us with UFOs - unidentified objects from out of space - the lunar loonies flying aimlessly without direction. Believe us, it's real. No! not a figment of our woolly imagination, genuine, we saw lots of them, and they even landed. No! genuine.

I was wondering who would be the first to answer the 5-in-the-final quiz. You made my new millennium day, and I'm certain many others are delighted. We now clearly know how the number of couples are allocated to the finals, but Jay's little bird-brain is still prickled. If 6 couples in a final score more promo points than 3 couples in a final, is the system not being unfair to the 3 couples who are at the mercy of the judges' ticks? It's not their fault, they just happened to score more ticks than those not recalled. Or did I lose something in the translation? If not, change the system, give the 3 couples in a final more points, or get the judges to confer to ensure that a maximum number of couples land in the final, just for the sake of peace, friendliness and fairness.

Cherie, thanks for your support. Now I am wholly, completely, absolutely and indubitably convinced that the bushman is drinking tea with Saint Peter and that the Scotts are alive, healthy and happily kicking e-lectronically.

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Your Mag Is The Most Wonderful Thing
(11th January 2000)
Dear Jay,
Your mag is the most wonderful thing that ever hit the DanceSport world and especially for us here in Zimbabwe. The dancers can now get the answers they are entitled to and air their grievances openly even if they are still afraid to print their names.  Felix Moroder is to be highly respected for being the first to speak out openly and persevere even though all the odds were against him.  Keep it up Felix as it is a fact that you do have a mandate and you are speaking for 100% of the dancers who have been badly affected by the so called ‘system’ – many of whom have given up in despair rather than try and fight the ‘system’.  We in Zimbabwe have lost a large number of talented dancers because the system is biased and crooked.  Rules are made and broken to benefit the chosen few.

The January issue proves that the dancers are behind Felix in every way so come on dancers, send in your letters even if you are not prepared to put your name to them.  We all understand why you cannot. I am the most disliked person in the ‘system’ in Zimbabwe as I, like Felix, will not ‘back off’.  I have been involved in the dancing world for over 50 years as a Dancer,  Parent of dancers’, Teacher, Scrutineer and presently a member (Administrative Officer) of three associations ZNDSC, ZPDSA and Grand Prix Dancers Association.  Ten professionals in Zimbabwe were forced to form a new association.  The three Professionals who like things their own way, work hand in hand with the Amateur body to achieve their goal.  It is ironic but it was these three Professionals who fought against the introduction of an Amateur body, but we were the ones that encouraged it.

The worst thing that ever hit Dancesport in Zimbabwe was the Amateur body.  We were led to believe, and the constitution still states, that the Amateur body would protect the Amateur dancers – fight for their rights – stop the Professionals from jeopardising these rights, and would work hand in hand with the Professional bodies to produce a set of rules that are stable and apply to all.

This is the laugh of the century.  The Amateur bodies consist mainly of parents of dancers, many of whom have never danced before themselves nor read the rules – but know it all. The leaders of the ‘Pack’ interpret the rules the way they want to and how it will be more beneficial to their own children or to the professional who teaches their children.  The rest of the committee just accept that the ‘Fuehrer’ knows best and after all the teacher always knows best and never, never question their opinion. I have a lot more to say but to end episode one you may enjoy a giggle!!! – Especially you Felix….

How decisions on Rules or point changes in Zimbabwe are made :-
The Amateur body sent out circulars asking opinions on their recommendations of changing the point system. Not all studios, clubs and professionals were included in this,  only a few and only if your pupils are registered members of the Amateur body or you are on sides with the Amateur body or your pupils are dancing in a competition.  We duly sent in our replies (there are 15 professionals in Zimbabwe) but remember only a handful receive the circular!  A special meeting was then called by the Amateur body for all Amateurs to attend. Professionals not invited.  The meeting was held in the studio that works hand in hand with the Amateur body.  Children under the age of 16 may not vote, but may call on someone present or a parent (who has no idea what it is all about -  let alone the dancer) to vote on their behalf. A Professional parent who attended because their child is a dancer may not vote.  So far this sounds fair.  The one parent who had two children dancing plus himself (as a non-dancer but Vice Chairman of ZADSA, Bulawayo) plus my granddaughters’ vote whose mother is a Professional – was allowed to show two hands and two feet.  All four votes were counted.  These two hands and two feet knock out two professionals opinions straight away.  If any one of the dancers objected, as one did, he was given the third degree and as he was highly embarrassed no other dancer dared object after that.  Other dancers between the ages of 16 and 21 were putting their hands up for a yes vote before the question had been completed.  I might add here that 99% of those present were from the one studio.  The motion was passed unanimously in favour!!!!

The latest farce in Zimbabwe was the introduction of a Pre-Bronze in the Juvenile section.  The reasons given were hilarious and a total fabrication of the truth.  We don’t have enough couples for one grade let alone now seven and they are not progressing at all because all you have to do is take on a new partner or apply to be downgraded because you can’t do the third dance.  The IDSF rules state you may split Juvenile into Juvenile I and Juvenile II by age, not split a grade.  None of the professionals from our Association or our other studios or clubs were asked for their opinion on this. One studio was advised a week before the competition that they were contemplating introducing such a section but as it was not approved yet – they would come back to her. The Professional was not asked for her opinion on the matter nor did they come back to her on it.  The result being all the dancers in that section were from one studio.

This section was introduced for one reason only.  For the benefit of the niece of the one teacher who works hand in hand with the Amateur body.  This couple (please note – this is not the children’s fault) had entered 3 Bronze Competitions already at the start of 1999 winning one and placed in two giving them over 20 points. They have now dropped to Pre-Bronze with no points and don’t accumulate points until this year.  This couple have won every Ballroom and Latin section in Pre-Bronze since it was introduced.  They now have to go to Juvenile Bronze but will get at least 3 chances to win again before going up to Silver.

This is wonderful for this couple being able to win so many competitions in one year but what about the other couples.  They have never won Pre-Bronze but as the rule states you may only dance one year or part thereof in Juvenile/Pre-Bronze.  They now have to dance Bronze and some because of their age will have to dance Junior Bronze.

In Zimbabwe if a section has to be combined i.e. Juvenile, Junior, Youth and sometimes even Adult - it is judged as one.  The Juvenile does not stand a chance so never achieves a place at all so what is the point of competing and going to all that expense for nothing.  We have repeatedly said this is incorrect.  The couples should be marked and awarded points as if they had competed in their own age categories, but the organisers refuse to listen.

In Zimbabwe you can do anything you like if you are one of the chosen few and your teacher, parent or relatives are on the committees.  You can go up and down grades like a yo-yo,  jump two age groups or grades.  Dance Adult for a year or more – be a winner and then come back to dance Junior sections again.

The rule states that in a new partnership you must dance the grade of the highest of the partnership – not here – the higher graded dancer just applies to be down-graded – no problem.  The dancers just pick up points when and if they need them and drop points when they need to, so they can compete in a lower section in South Africa.  We have lost so many of our good dancers and a great deal of our very keen beginner dancers – (we don’t have much in-between) because of the ‘system’.  If nothing is done soon, Dancesport will be non-existent in the very near future in Zimbabwe and as you appear to be having the same problems in South Africa – let us all work together to improve the situation. Come on Parents and Dancers put your grievances in writing and send them to ‘Dance-Info’.  We can then oust the wrong doers and bring in the ones that want a set of rules that are fair and apply to all and cannot be bent and twisted to benefit the chosen few.  How can something so beautiful as Dancesport be so ugly behind the scenes?

I will write again.

Cherie Scott (Zimbabwe)

Ed,
Cherie, unfortunately, at the moment we get no answers from the officials to the provocative   questions posed by dancers. It's a one-way avenue; a lopsided "most wonderful mag". I am seriously beginning to believe that the authorities are guilty of unjustly imposing the system on the dancer at will; for their own convenience and at the expense of the sport. You are allowed to ask, "how do I get to the comp?" or "what do I wear for the Novice section?" but heaven help the competitor or parent who questions the system.

The authorities don't make the rules for the good guys like you and Jay, rules are made for the baddies who keep trying to finagle the system, and us law-abiding citizens have to suffer as a result. The people at the top know the rules better than anyone else, so they must be answerable to all in the sport when questions of the rules are hurled at them… we need answers. Answers will reduce or even eliminate the number of "attack" letters from dancers, and restore the good image of dancing and the officials, which at present appears dismally tarnished.

What depresses me about these silent officials, who where the cause of all these "stink" letters, is that, according to the grapevine, the officials are blaming DI, saying they don't want to have anything to do with the mag because of the "rubbish" that's printed in the Letter's to the Editor. In other words, they are saying dancers who complain talk rubbish, and what the dancer says is of no importance. If what dancers say is rubbish, then why don't they tell what makes it rubbish. In reality;

  1. the silent officials make DanceInfo SA look bad when all we are courteously doing is to give dancers the opportunity to ask valid questions - DI the obliger
  2. they make dancing look bad by hiding in a dark corner with the answers to the dancers' questions - spreading suspicion
  3. they insinuate that the gripes of the dancer are obtuse and trivial
  4. and from my point of view, this one-sided grapple is bad news for those who are supposed to be in control of things. It's now becoming a childish joke.


Cherie, true, it's about time dancers be given a fair chance to say their say without getting clobbered by the authorities. Remember, the Berlin wall is razed, Hitler is dead and communism is rapidly on its way out. We are the good guys, the brave ones who tread where fairies dare to Waltz.

I too don't like letters of complaint, that's not what promotes DI or dancing, it does the opposite, it downs both. But, if dancers are not permitted to talk turkey, give their honest opinion or voice their dislikes without retribution, then I'm afraid, it's back to the dark days of dancing for all of us.

As easy as the authorities accept the money which the thousands pay to register and enter for comps, take lessons, or any other financial support they give to dancing, so too should the collectors loyally and eagerly feel obliged to answer questions from dancers - it's obligatory. This unilateral affair has now become a tedious travesty of justice.