Playboy Interview 1980
Page 14
Yoko: Seventeen, the same as John's
son.
Playboy: Perhaps when she gets older, she'll seek you out.
Yoko: She is totally frightened. There was a time in Spain when a lawyer and
John thought that we should kidnap her.
John: [Sighing] I was just going to commit hara-kiri first.
Yoko: And we did kidnap her and went to court. The court did a very sensible
thing - the judge took her into a room and asked her which one of us she wanted
to go with. Of course, she said Tony. We had scared her to death. So now she
must be afraid that if she comes to see me, she'll never see her father again.
John: When she gets to be in her 20s, she'll understand that we were idiots and
we know we were idiots. She might give us a chance.
Yoko: I probably would have lost Kyoko even if it wasn't for John. If I had
separated from Tony, there would have been some difficulty.
John: I'll just half-kill myself.
Yoko: [To John] Part of the reason things got so bad was because with Kyoko, it
was you and Tony dealing. Men. With your son Julian, it was women - there was
more understanding between me and Cyn.
Playboy: Can you explain that?
Yoko: For example, there was a birthday party that Kyoko had and we were both
invited, but John felt very uptight about it and he didn't go. He wouldn't deal
with Tony. But we were both invited to Julian's party and we both went.
John: Oh, God, it's all coming out.
Yoko: Or like when I was invited to Tony's place alone, I couldn't go; but when
John was invited to Cyn's, he did go.
John: One rule for the men, one for the women.
Yoko: So it was easier for Julian, because I was allowing it to happen.
John: But I've said a million Hail Marys. What the hell else can I do?
Playboy: Yoko, after this experience, how do you feel about leaving Sean's
rearing to John?
Yoko: I am very clear about my emotions in that area. I don't feel guilty. I am
doing it in my own way. It may not be the same as other mothers, but I'm doing
it the way I can do it. In general, mothers have a very strong resentment toward
their children, even though there's this whole adulation about motherhood and
how mothers really think about their children and how they really love them. I
mean, they do, but it is not humanly possible to retain emotion that mothers are
supposed to have within this society. Women are just too stretched out in
different directions to retain that emotion. Too much is required of them. So I
say to John...
John: I am her favorite husband...
Yoko: "I am carrying the baby nine months and that is enough, so you take
care of it afterward." It did sound like a crude remark, but I really
believe that children belong to the society. If a mother carries the child and a
father raises it, the responsibility is shared.
Playboy: Did you resent having to take so much responsibility, John?
John: Well, sometimes, you know, she'd come home and say, "I'm tired."
I'd say, only partly tongue in cheek, "What the fuck do you think I am? I'm
24 hours with the baby! Do you think that's easy?" I'd say, "You're
going to take some more interest in the child." I don't care whether it's a
father or a mother. When I'm going on about pimples and bones and which TV shows
to let him watch, I would say, "Listen, this is important. I don't want to
hear about your $20,000,000 deal tonight!" [To Yoko] I would like both
parents to take care of the children, but how is a different matter.
Yoko: Society should be more supportive and understanding.
John: It's true. The saying "You've come a long way, baby" applies
more to me than to her. As Harry Nilsson says, "Everything is the opposite
of what it is, isn't it?" It's men who've come a long way from even
contemplating the idea of equality. But although there is this thing called the
women's movement, society just took a laxative and they've just farted. They
haven't really had a good shit yet. The seed was planted sometime in the late
Sixties, right? But the real changes are coming. I am the one who has come a
long way. I was the pig. And it is a relief not to be a pig. The pressures of
being a pig were enormous. I don't have any hankering to be looked upon as a sex
object, a male, macho rock-'n'-roll singer. I got over that a long time ago. I'm
not even interested in projecting that. So I like it to be known that, yes, I
looked after the baby and I made bread and I was a househusband and I am proud
of it. It's the wave of the future and I'm glad to be in on the forefront of
that, too.
Yoko: So maybe both of us learned a lot about how men and women suffer because
of the social structure. And the only way to change it is to be aware of it. It
sounds simple, but important things are simple.
Playboy: John, does it take actually reversing roles with women to understand?
John: It did for this man. But don't forget, I'm the one who benefited the most
from doing it. Now I can step back and say Sean is going to be five years old
and I was able to spend his first five years with him and I am very proud of
that. And come to think of it, it looks like I'm going to be 40 and life begins
at 40 - so they promise. And I believe it, too. I feel fine and I'm very
excited. It's like, you know, hitting 21, like, "Wow, what's going to
happen next?" Only this time we're together.
Yoko: If two are gathered together, there's nothing you can't do.
Playboy: What does the title of your new album, "Double Fantasy,"
mean?