Speak in Tongues ! Fragments of Messages Edited from Google Newsgroups Talk:

From: Mark Bassett (mbasset@iconn.net) Subject: Speaking in Tongues Date: 1997/10/10

SPEAKING IN TONGUES THROUGHOUT HISTORY

Introduction

The controversy that exists among Theologians concerning

"speaking in tongues" is not a new subject.

It is about as old as the Christian Church itself.

Paul dealt with the problem of tongues with the Corinthian Church

around 57 A.D. Writers following the apostles continued to deal with

it. It is not the intention of this writing to prove a biblical

existence of tongues, for the Word of God clearly defines itself on

that subject. But much of the contention of tongues lies in their

continuance following the first century.

Many would like to say they ceased with the apostles.  Others

contend they lost their usefulness and therefore disappeared.

The fact is that they did neither. The following is an accumulation

of evidence concerning tongues as found in history.

The Bible is not only a book of Theological knowledge,

but also a book of history. All references given in the Word of

God are evidence of tongues in the first century. But all Bible

students will agree upon the existence of tongues in the New

Testament Church.   Where the problem lies in the existence of tongues

following the death of the apostles.

What is presented here is a history of tongues as it was

recorded by numerous men throughout Church history.   According to

Philip Schaff, a well known writer of Church History, tongues

was not confined to the first century.

"The speaking with tongues, however, was not confined to

the day of Pentecost. Together with the other extraordinary

spiritual gifts which distinguished this age above the

succeeding periods of more quiet and natural development, this

gift also though to be sure in a modified form, perpetuated

itself in the apostolic Church. We find traces of it still in

the second and third centuries."(1)

TONGUES IN THE SECOND, AND THIRD

AND FOURTH CENTURIES

Among the Church fathers that lived following the death

of John the Revelator in 98 A.D., Montanus of Phrygia stands as a

leader in the support of tongues. Eusebius, a fourth century

Church historian writes that the followers of Montanus would be

"carried away in spirit, and wrought up into a certain kind of

frenzy and irregular ecstasy, raving, and speaking, and uttering

strange things."(2)

Because of his teachings, and the practices of his

followers, they were forced to withdraw from the accepted church of

the early second century and were ultimately labeled as

heresy.

Irenaeus, a disciple of  Polycarp who was in turn a pupil

of the Apostle John, wrote in his book "Against Heresies"

"In like manner do we also hear many brethren in the

Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who through

the Spirit speak all kinds of language and bring to

light for the general benefit the hidden things of

men and declare the mysteries of God, whom also the

apostles term spiritual "(3)

Tertullian, who lived about the same time as Irenaeus in

160-220 A.D, writes a passage in his book "Against

Marcion" which challenges Marcion to produce anything among his

followers such as was common among Tertullian's.

"Let him exhibit prophets such as have spoken, not by

human sense but with the Spirit of God, such as have predicted

things to come, and have made manifest the secrets of the heart;

let him produce a psalm, a vision a prayer, only let it be by

the Spirit in an ecstasy, that is, in a rapture, whenever an

interpretation of tongues has occurred to him "(4)

A few years later in the third century, a certain

Pachomius was able to "after seasons of special prayer, spoke the

Greek and Latin languages, which he had never learned, under the

power of the Spirit."(5)

Saint Augustine, who lived in the fourth century (354-430)

also wrote:  "We still do what the apostles did when they laid hands

on the Samaritans and called down the Holy Spirit on them by

the laying on of hands.  It is expected that converts should speak

with new tongues.(6)

TONGUES IN THE DARK AGES

The introduction of the fifth century marks the beginning of

the Dark Ages. It is here that the Catholic Church rules with an

iron hand and people were killed for not following its

teachings.

The absence of writings other than those of Roman Catholic is not

surprising. It is the authors opinion that the church was in hiding

concerning this time, for I feel that God has always had a Church.

Nothing could dare be published or written concerning  tongues for

fear of it costing their lives. Alexander Mackie in his book, "The

Gift of Tongues: puts in this way:

"From patristic times until the power of Reformation had

made itself distinctly felt the gift of tongues is an almost

forgotten phenomenon. The attention which the Reformation drew to

the Scripture is the reason for the reappearance of the gift.

Men do not usually have the gift of tongues unless they know

there is a gift of tongues."(7)

The first time that tongues appear in the Dark Ages is

in the Life of Saint Hildengard, who lived in the twelfth

century. She was a German Abbess who was raised in a Catholic

cloister but was not educated because she was sickly.

Nevertheless, it was recorded that she was able to "interpret Latin

scriptures, and speak and interpret an entirely unknown language." Her

first experience with this gift is said to have came as a part

of a "strange and powerfully moving religious experience, and

following a long series of visions which she had not discussed

with anyone." This also corresponds to the Encyclopedia

Britannica which states that tongues or "Glossolalia" was

present "among the mendicant  friars of the thirteenth century."

One of these friars was a young Spaniard by the name of

Saint Vincent Ferrer, a native of Valencia, who supposedly spoke

Limousin the local dialect. The Biographers of Ferrer tell of

his ministry reaching and converting people all over Western

Europe, many in isolated areas. He was reported to have been

understood in the Alpine regions and other parts of Switzerland,

in Brittany and Fanders, in the Savoy and Lyons, by people who know

only the local tongue. While in Genoa he spoke to a group of men and

women of mixed linguistic backgrounds, all of whom were said to

have heard him in their own language.(9) The Catholic Encyclopedia

notes that many biographers of Saint Vincent have held that he

was endowed with the Gift of tongues. This is perhaps the

closest parallel of Acts the second chapter that we find recorded

in early Church History.

In the first half of the sixteenth century we find the

same report about the two Catholic saints, Saint Francis Xavier

and Saint Louis Bertrand. Both men were reported to have spoken

in foreign language they did not know in the course of their

missionary work. The bull by which Berland was canonized for his

success in missionary "asserts that to facilitate the work of

converting the natives, the apostle was miraculously endowed with the

gift of tongues."(10)

TONGUES FROM THE REFORMATION TO

THE TWENTIETH CENTURY

With the birth of Reformation, the Catholic Church no longer asserts

iron rule among the Church world. The instances of tongues becomes

more and more frequent, beginning with Matin Luther. In a German work,

Sourer's History of the Christian Church" it is stated that, Dr.

Martin Luther was a prophet, evangelist, speaker in tongues, and

interpreter, in one person, endowed with all the gifts of the Holy

Spirit."(11)

"Soon following Luther came the French sect known as the Jansenists.

This group arose in the Roman Catholic Church after the Council of

Trent and was subjected to persecution following the issuance in 1705

of a bill condemning them. After persecution began, speaking in

tongues

was reported among this group."(12)

Another group in France that exercised the use of tongues were known

as the Cevennes. Among them in a revival of religious enthusiasm

occurred similar to that of the Jansenists. Newman in "A Manual of

Church History" tells us that:

Respecting the physical manifestations, there is little

discrepancy between the accounts of friend and foe. The persons

affected were men and women, the old and the young, Very many

were children, boys and girls of nine or ten years of age. They

were sprung from the people for the most part unable to read or

write, and speaking in everyday life the patios of the province

with which alone they were conversant. Such persons would

suddenly fall backward, and, while extended at full length on

the ground, undergo strange and apparently involuntary

contortions; their chests would seem to heave, their stomachs

inflate. On coming gradually out of this condition, they

appeared instantly to regain the power of speech.... From the

mouths of those that were little more than babes came texts of

Scripture, and discourses in good and intelligible French such

as they never used in their conscious hours.(13)

Some of the French prophets emigrated to England and

made converts there, with tongues being a part of the British

revival also.

In this same period of time the Encyclopedia Britannica

tells of tongues "among the converts of Wesley and

Whitefield." John Wesley once wrote a protest against a Dr.

Middleton who wrote "after the Apostolic time, there is not, in all

history, one instance...of any person who had even exercised that

gift (tongues)." Wesley replied, "Sir, your memory fails you

again, it has been heard more than once no further off than the

valleys of Dauphiny."(14)

The atmosphere of the revivals that followed the

Wesleyan movement was one of informality, spiritual fervor, and

religious enthusiasm. Crying out with groans and sobs in prayer,

shouting and uttering of "unintelligible sounds" were common of

this early period."(15)

Another movement that displayed Pentecostal characteristics

developed in England during the seventeenth century.   They were

called the Society of Friends or Quakers. W.C. Braithwaite, in

"The Message and Mission of Quakerism," quotes from

Burrough's preface to Great Mystery:

"While waiting upon the Lord in silence, as often we did

for many hours together, we received often the pouring down of

the Spirit upon us, and our hearts were glad and our tongues

loosed and our mouth opened, and we spake with new tongues as

the Lord gave us utterance, and as His Spirit led us, which was

poured down upon us, on sons and daughters, and the glory of the

Father was revealed. And then began we to sing praise to the

Lord God Almighty and to the Lamb forever "(16)

The Quakers were followed in the eighteenth century by a

group that surpassed them in religious emotionalism. These were

called the Shakers. The roots of the group extend back to both

Quakers and the Cevennes, the early leaders having been

Quakers who accepted the teaching of the Cevennes when they

emigrated to England. Their conduct of worship was much like

Pentecostlism in nature:

Some who attended confessed their sins aloud, crying for

mercy; some went into a trance-like state in which they saw

visions and received prophecies of Christ's imminent second coming.

Others shouted and danced for joy because they believed that the day

was at hand for wars to cease and God's kingdom on earth to

begin."(17)

Along with other spiritual gifts, speaking in tongues

was prominent among the Shakers.

Of all the groups mentioned during the Reformation, none

has received as much notice as the Irvingites, a sect

which developed in Great Britian about 1825. Edward Irving, a popular

Presberterian minister in London played an important

role in the movement. When several demonstrations of religious

enthusiasm occurred in his services, he encouraged them, believing

they were of divine origin.

"The Gift of Tongues" was soon to follow and became a

part of his services. A strong faction formed against Irving and

his followers and ultimately they were turned away from the

Presbertarian Church, The result was the formation of the Catholic

Apostolic Church, often called "Irvingites" because of the

leadership of Edward Irving.  This body wrote a "tongues" tenet in its

theology."

Coming over to America, we find another religious sect

called the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints,

commonly known as the Mormon Church, founded by Joseph Smith in 1830.

The seventh article of faith of the Latter-Day Saints states that

they "believe" in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions,

healing, interpretation of tongues, etc." Herber Grant, the Seventh

President of the Church, commented on this article of faith:

Now, we have had many men who have had the gift of

tongues, out in the world, preach this gospel in a language of

which they had no knowledge....

Unless the gift of tongues and the interpretation

thereof are enjoyed by the Saints in our day, then we are

lacking one of the evidences of the true faith.(19)

Back in England, the report of tongues began to appear

in the wake of the preaching campaigns of Dwight L. Moody. Dr. R.

Boyd, who was a very close friend of the famous evangelist writes

concerning one instance:

When I got to the rooms of the Young Men's Christian

Association in Victoria Hall, London, I found the

meeting on fire: The young men were speaking in

tongues, prophesying. What on earth did it mean?

Only that Moody had been addressing them that afternoon:"(20)

As the nineteenth century come to a close, space limits

me from listing all the instances of tongues that took

place. In 1875 R.B. Swan writes that he and others spoke in

tongues.  1879 - W.J. Walthall also receives the baptism of the Holy

Spirit, speaking in tongues. In 1880 in Kara Kara, Armenia a strong

Pentecostal Movement breaks out with speaking in tongues.

The same year tongues is reported in Switzerland, and on and on. This

also includes the revival of Topeka Kansas in the 1900's.

All of them are a part of the vast spreading movement of the spirit of

God as these last days grow to a close. No one can deny that there is

definite historical proof to the presence of tongues in the

Church throughout the centuries. God has always had a people

called out for his namesake. His word has always been a part of

the hearts of men, and so it continues today.

FOOTNOTES

1 Philip Schaff, History of the Apostolic Church, New York: Charles

Scribner's, 1853, pp. 197-198.

2 Klaude Kendrick, The Promise Fulfilled, Springfield, Missouri Gospel

Publishing House, 1961, pg. 19.

3 Irenaeus, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles

Scribner's 1885, Book III pg. 531.

4 Tertullian, The Anti Nicene Fathers, Ten Volume, New York: Charles

Scribner's 1885, Book III pp. 445-447.

5 Carl Brumback, What Meaneth This, Gospel Publishing House,

Springfield, Missouri, 1947 pg. 91.

6 John Sherril, They Speak with Other Tongues, Revell Company:

Westwood, New Jersey, 1964 pg. 76.

7 Alexander Mackie, The Gift of Tongues, New York: Doubleday and

Company 1950.

8 Encyclopedia Britannica 24 Volume, Chicago: Encyclopedia Britannia

Inc. 1951, XXII, pg. 283.

9 The Catholic Encyclopedia, 15 Volume, New York: Robert Appleton Co.

1912 XV, pg. 438.

10 Ibid, pg. 439.

11 Carl Brumback, What Meaneth This? Springfield Missouri: Gospel

Publishing House, 1961, pg. 20.

12 Klaude Kendrick, The Promise Fulfilled, Springfield Missouri:

Gospel Publishing House, 1961, pg. 20.

13 Albert Henry Newman, A Manuel of Church History, 2 Volume

Philadelphil: American Baptists Publication Society, 1903 II pg. 478.

14 Carl Brumback, What Meaneth This?, Springfield, Missouri: Gospel

Publishing House, 1947, pg. 92.

15 Klaude Kendrick, The Promise Fulfilled, Springfield Missouri:

Gospel Publishing House, 1961, pg. 23.

16 Carl Brumback, What Meaneth This?, Spingfield, Missouri: Gospel

Publishing House, 1947, pg. 93.

17 Marguerite Melcher, The Shaker Adventure, Princeton: Princeton

University Press, 1941, pg. 5.

18 Klaude Kendrick, The Promise Fulfilled, Springfield, Missouri:

Gospel Publishing House, 1947, pg. 93.

19 Ibid, pg. 24.

BIBLIOGRAPHY

Brumback, Carl, What Meaneth This?, Gospel Publishing House.

Catholic Encyclopedia, The, 15 Volumes, Robert Appleton, Co.

Encyclopedia Britannica, 24 Volumes, Encyclopedia Britannica, Inc.

Irenaeus, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 10 Volumnes, Charles Scribner's.

Kelsey, Morton, Tongue Speaking, Doubleday and Company.

Mackie, Alexander, The Gift of Tongues, Doubleday and Company.

Melcher, Marguerite, The Shaker Adventure, Princeton University Press.

Newman, Albert Henry, A Manual of Church History, 2 Volumnes, America

Baptists Publication Society.

Schaff, Philip, History of the Apostolic Church, Charles Scribner's.

Sherril, John, They Speak with other Tongues, Revell Co.

Tertullian, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, 10 Volumes, Charles Scribner's

From: EHighleymn (ehighleymn@aol.com) Subject: Speaking In Tongues Newsgroups: talk.religion.misc Date: 1999/05/23

>What are tongues?

Tongues are other languages, whether human or 

angelic, that the Holy Spirit miraculously enables 

Christians to speak.

>What are tongues for?

Tongues are given to edify our own spirits, and, 

with interpretation, to edify the Church. 

Pray for the gift of tongues. Then pray in them daily 

to strengthen your spirit.

1 Cor 14:2 

Anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men 

but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters 

mysteries with his spirit. 

1 Cor 14:14 

If I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays... 

1 Cor 14:4 

He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself... 

1 Cor 14:15b 

I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the 

understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and 

I will sing with the understanding also. 

1 Cor 14:18-19 

I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all... 

1 Cor 14:5a 

I would like every one of you to speak in tongues... 

1 Cor 14:39b 

Do not forbid speaking in tongues. 

1 Cor 14:27-28 

If anyone speaks in a tongue [in church], two-- or at 

the most three-- should speak, one at a time, and 

someone must interpret. If there is no interpreter, 

the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak 

to himself and God. 

1 Cor 12:7-11 

Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given 

for the common good. To one there is given through the 

Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of 

knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith 

by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that 

one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another 

prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, 

to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, 

and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 

All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, 

and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. 

1 Cor 14:13b 

Anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may 

interpret what he says. 

1 Cor 14:26 

What then shall we say, brothers? When you come 

together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, 

a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these 

must be done for the strengthening of the church. 

>Aren't all tongues today from demons?

No. And to ascribe the work of the Holy Spirit to 

demons is the most serious blasphemy.

Mark 3:28-30

I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of 

men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes 

against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is 

guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were 

saying, "He has an evil spirit."

Message 4 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Newsgroups: alt.christnet.public, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.calvary.chapel, alt.org.promisekeepers, alt.religion.mormon, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.bible Date: 1997/01/24

There is speaking in the tongues of angels, and the tongues of man. I

have known of many instances where one speaking in tongues, not knowing

what he was saying, happened to be speaking perfectly in a language he

had never learned. The result was the salvation of a person or persons

within hearing. One instance was of a man speaking an ancient Mandarin

dialect that he could not possibly have known. It was solely for the

benefit (via the Holy Spirit) of an old man who absolutely knew that

this American could not have known that language. The Bible says that

one of the reasons for tongues is as a sign to the unbelievers.

Message 11 in thread

From: S & R (bywaters@nidlink.com)

GREAT RESPONSE!!!

From Rene'e

Message 6 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/24

> In <32E90E16.3327@cdsnet.net> Bonnie H <bonnieh@cdsnet.net> writes:

> >

> >Libertarius wrote:

> >>

>     You say "you have known of many instances". Was that your

>     PERSONAL EXPERIENCE or a story you've heard from someone else?

>     Can you give us any details, such as place, time and names

>     that could be verified?

> 

>     Libertarius

I have known several people this happened to, including the man who was

speaking in perfect Mandarin dialect. This man has passed away now,

about ten years ago. I have also read such accounts in many books, all

available in Christian book stores. I did not write down place, time and

names as to me this would be ridiculous. I was not out to do a

documentary of God's actions or keep a log of every time I saw the gifts

of the Spirit at work. I see those gifts every time I attend a

full-Gospel church, and see them working in my life all the time. Many

people insist on a "sign." The Lord wants people to take a little step

of faith, and then He will show them many signs.

While I appreciate the gift of tongues in the Church, it is also misused

by people with a religious spirit who just want to be seen, heard, and

thought to be spiritual. The greatest blessing in my life in the gift of

tongues is in my personal prayer life. Through the Spirit, one prays the

perfect prayer to God, not a selfish prayer. Praying in tongues

"edifies" a person, which means it builds one up in the Spirit. It

causes one to be able to understand the Bible like nothing else can do.

It causes one to grow spiritually.

Documented? No, I've never done that. But it would make an interesting

book. I don't know if anyone has written such a book.

Message 8 in thread From: Dale Sanger (regnaston@oocities.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/24

106 Los Angeles ...Azuza Street Mission.... a Reporter for the LA

Newspaper reported on the events in the mission. And in the particular

meeting he was in a person spoke in tongues and was speaking perfect

Russian. 

Dale

Message 14 in thread From: Joseph David Chiodo (joseph.chiodo@brunel.ac.uk) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/29

 

I went to some seminars on the Holy Spirit in Canada just over a year ago and was 

prayed over and for a split second believed I could receive the 'gift' of tongues

and in that split second, I received it… I can start doing this any time when I decide, 

it is at that point that the words come out without my choice of utterances.  

And I was still wondering about the credibility of so I asked some Jewish friends of mine

 (after explaining what I was going through) to see if they understood any of it.  

Guess what!… as I had done many times before… started speaking in tongues 

and they understood what I was saying.  

The important point here is that I've never taken a course in learning to speak Hebrew

 and I've never heard more than a few seconds of it.  Certainly not the words I 

spoke in tongues of.

Message 16 in thread From: Peter Dolman (peter@technologist.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/25

…the logic:

1. "The initial Pentecostal 'sign' was tongues."

2. "This reoccurred several times as the Spirit 'baptized' certain new

believers -- Samaritans, Cornelius, Ephesians, etc.

3. "Tongues occurred when the Spirit came upon them"

4. "Tongues is THE evidence of the 'Baptism of the Holy Spirit'.

5. "All Christians baptized by the Spirit speak in tongues".

6. "Therefore, speaking in tongues is THE evidence of being a Christian".

I am a Pentecostal who accepts the spiritual gift of tongues as a valid

expression of the Sprit's manifestation and work in the life of a believer.

 I belong to a church in which people are encouraged to express their

worship to Jesus in tongues, prayer, song, preaching -- and silent

reverence. I believe that the New Testament specifically provides for the

exercise of this gift both in private and in public.

…ALL Christians are saved by His Grace.

Do I speak in tongues?  I did a few times many years ago, and many years

before I joined a Pentecostal church.  In fact, the primary reason for

joining was that they welcomed me and my family IN LOVE long before I ever

told them I spoke in tongues -- it only came up when I asked about it. 

As for tongues being a 'sign' of the Spirit's presence, I agree it is… 

Changes in the recipients of the Spirit (frightened disciples became bold preachers)…

 Spirit convicting the hearers ("what must we do to be saved?")… 

Repentance and contrition resulting in the salvation of thousands… 

Massive growth of the new Church.

Search Result 1 From: Hardane (hardane@ix.netcom.com) Subject: Speaking in tongues View: Complete Thread (137 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: alt.christnet.public, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.religion.christian.calvary.chapel, alt.org.promisekeepers, alt.religion.mormon, alt.christnet, alt.christnet.bible Date: 1997/01/23

..." We receive because we believe.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

THE TRUTH ABOUT SPEAKING IN TONGUES

by EDDIE JONES

(Biblical and Historical Proof)

The phenomenon of "speaking in tongues" has created 

widespread controversy among modern Christendom today. Without the 

knowledge of the truth, which only comes to an honest heart by divine 

revelation, many have misunderstood the purpose of tongues. Do not be 

confused by theories and ideas of men: learn the truth about this 

important subject. 

The Bible teaches three principal ways in which tongues are manifested: 

as the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism, 

as one of the nine gifts of the Spirit in the church, 

and in a believer's personal devotion to God. 

INITIAL EVIDENCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM

Isaiah prophesied, "With stammering lips and ANOTHER TONGUE will he 

speak to this people." Is. 28:11. In the great commission, Jesus said,

"And these signs shall follow them that believe...they shall speak

with NEW TONGUES." Mark 16:17. 

"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the SOUND thereof, 

but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: 

so is everyone that is born of the Spirit." 

John 3:8. As the sound of wind blowing is the evidence of its presence, 

so is the sound of speaking in tongues evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism. 

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one 

accord in one place. And suddenly there came a SOUND from heaven as of a rushing 

mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were 

sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, 

and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy 

Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them 

utterance." Acts 2:1-4. The initial evidence of the Holy Ghost, upon

the 120 disciples, was witnessed by devout Jews, out of every nation.

They said one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak

Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we

were born?" Acts 2:6-8. Then Peter preached, "But this is that which

was spoken by the prophet Joel (See Joel 2:28). And it shall come to

pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon

all flesh...Having received of the Father the promise of the Holy

Ghost, he (Jesus) hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear."

Acts 2:16-33. 

Cornelius and his household spoke in tongues when they were baptized 

with the Holy Ghost. "They of the circumcision which believe were 

astonished...because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES..." Acts 10:45-48. 

Peter confirmed, "...The Holy Ghost fell on them as on us at the beginning." Acts 11:15. 

The believers at Ephesus spoke in tongues when they received the Holy 

Ghost baptism. "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy 

Ghost came on them, and they spake in tongues, and prophesied." Acts 

19:1-6. 

When the Samaritans received the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the 

apostles' hands, there was a miraculous evidence of God's power which 

exceeded the miracles and signs already experienced. This prompted

Simon the sorcerer to offer money to buy this power: that on

whomsoever he laid hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. According to

the Biblical signs that follow believers, and the experiences received at Pentecost,

Cesarea and Ephesus, there should be no doubt that the Samaritans received 

the Holy Ghost with the same initial evidence of speaking in tongues. Acts 8:5-25. 

The apostle Paul was filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. 

Acts 9:17, I Cor. 14:18. 

History also proves that speaking in tongues was the evidence of the 

Holy Spirit baptism in the early church, and has not ceased to be a 

Biblical experience among believers today. 

Encyclopedia Britannica, 1972 Edition, Vol. W, p. 75 – 

Tongue-speaking manifested itself early in the Christian experience. 

At Pentecost (Acts 2) the gift appeared as a sign of the indwelling 

of the Holy Spirit which marked the character of the earliest Christians...

During later church history, glossolalia (speaking in tongues) 

occurred among the mendicant friars of the 13th century, little prophets of Cevennes, 

the Jansenists, and the Irvingites. Tongues were found also among the early Quakers, 

as well as among the converts of John Wesley and George Whitefield...

In modern times glossolalia has been found chiefly among Holiness 

and Pentecostal groups. 

The Saturday Evening Post, May 16, 1964, p. 32 - Praying in tongues

has recurred at intervals throughout the Christian era, although it

did not affect large masses until early in this century. 

Its advocates were quickly expelled from the established churches, 

whereupon they established the Pentecostal churches. 

For 50 years it remained the almost exclusive possession of the Pentecostal churches. 

Newsweek, June 25, 1973, p. 80 - The Pentecostal phenomenon has spread with

surprising speed through all of the world's major Christian churches. 

Why did God choose tongues for the initial evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism? Note the following reasons: 

1.Isaiah asked, "Who hath

directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being His counselor hath taught

Him?" Is. 40:13. God is sovereign to choose as He will without being

accountable to anyone! 

2.Such a marvelous experience as the baptism of the Holy Ghost demands a marvelous evidence. 

So God chose to speak through the believer in a language foreign to him as the outward

evidence of the marvelous infilling of the Holy Ghost! 

3.The tongue is the most unruly member of the body and full of deadly

poison, which no man can tame. It is a world of iniquity and is set on fire of hell.

Therefore, the tongue is capable of defiling the entire body. James 3:6. 

Before man can be fully sanctified, the tongue, which defileth, 

must be brought under control. Who can tame the tongue? 

James compares the tongue to the bit in a horse's mouth which gives the driver 

complete control. James 3:3. So whoever controls the tongue controls the person. 

How beautiful is this glorious truth! God chose tongues, 

as evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism, to symbolize His complete control of a believer.

And this is important for the sanctification of the individual's body. 

4.Although other signs were manifested at Pentecost, God chose tongues for the uniform

 sign of the Holy Spirit baptism. (Compare Acts 2:2-4, 10:46, 19:6.) Jesus said that this

 SIGN shall follow every believer of the gospel. Mark 16:16,17. The Jews were

 convinced that the Gentiles at Cesarea had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, FOR

 THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES. Acts 10:45-47. 

GIFT OF TONGUES IN THE CHURCH

"For by ONE SPIRIT are we ALL BAPTIZED into one body." I Cor. 12:13. 

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." I Cor. 12:4. 

The gifts of the Spirit are as follows: "the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, 

faith, the gifts of healing, the working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, 

divers kinds of tongues and the interpretation of tongues. 

But by one and the selfsame Spirit, God divides these gifts severally to every man 

as He will". I Cor. 12:8-11. 

Since the gift of tongues is a manifestation of the Spirit (I Cor. 

12:7,11), it cannot operate in a person without the Holy Ghost being 

resident within him. Therefore this gift is only given to believers

who have been baptized into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit

evidenced by tongue-speaking. 

The gift of tongues is different from the tongues as the initial 

evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism. Compare the following: 

     •1. These tongues differ in purpose. The gift of tongues along

with the gift of interpretation of tongues has been given unto some in the church to

convey a message from God to the congregation as the

need requires. I Cor. 12:7, 27, 28. But the tongues as evidence of

receiving the Holy Ghost, is the believers personal experience with

God, and is not designed to convey a message to the church. 

  •2. Also these tongues differ in operation. The gift of tongues

in the church is limited to two or three messages and that by course:

and one (the same person speaking in tongues) must interpret I Cor. 14:27. 

But the tongues as evidence of the Holy Spirit baptism is an 

unlimited manifestation and requires no interpretation. 

[1 Cor. 14:13 “Therefore let him who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret”; 

1 Cor. 14:5 “…he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets…”]

Paul said, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

but he that prophesieth edifieth the church I would that ye all spake

with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that 

prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues EXCEPT he interpret

that the church may receive edifying." I Cor. 14:4,5. Certainly the

apostle did not try to discredit or do away with the importance of

tongues. Because, in comparison, he illustrated that the less honorable members of the

body are necessary, and receive more abundant honor. I Cor. 12:22,23. Each gift of the

Spirit has as its proper time and place in the church, and when tongues is interpreted they

become as important as prophecy! So Paul emphasized, "...Let all things be done unto

edifying." I Cor. 14:26. To edify the church, the manifestation of tongues must be

coupled with the manifestation of interpretation of tongues. To avoid confusion, Paul

gave instructions to follow for the use of tongues and interpretation of tongues in the

church. (See I Cor. 14:27.) He said, "If there be no interpretation let him keep silence in 

the church: and let him speak to himself, and to o God." I Cor. 14:28. Also he said, "IN 

THE CHURCH I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I 

might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue." I Cor. 14:19. It 

is better for the edification of the church to speak five words of understanding than ten 

thousand words in an unknown tongue without a divinely inspired interpretation.

However, lest anyone misunderstand the importance of tongues, Paul concluded, 

"Wherefore brethren, covet to prophesy, and FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH 

TONGUES." I Cor. 14:19. 

"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to

them that believe not..." I Cor. 14:22. This Scripture deals with

God's speaking to man. (See I Cor. 14:21.) Of course, the believer

should know when the Lord speaks, whether by tongues or not. But as a

proof to the unbeliever, or anyone who doubts the Word of God, 

tongues are manifested for a miraculous sign of His presence. 

Paul asked the question, "Do all speak with tongues?..." I Cor. 12:30.

The context of this Scripture requires a negative answer, because Paul is discussing the 

use of Tongues in the Church, and not all should Speak with Tongues “at the same time”, 

because if that was the case, it will be like a “mad-house” (1 Cor. 14:23)

PERSONAL DEVOTION TO GOD

Tongues are also manifested in a believer's personal life of prayer

and worship. They serve as a means of his secret communication with

God in the Spirit. These tongues are not meant to be understood by

men: therefore, they need no interpretation. "He that speaketh in an

unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man

understandeth him: howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries." I

Cor. 14:2. "The Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with

groanings which cannot be uttered." Rom. 8:26. Paul said, "If I pray

in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is

unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will

pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I

will sing with the understanding also." I Cor. 14:14,15. 

These devotional tongues are also for the personal edification of the 

believer. They are for self-encouragement and uplifting of his spirit.

Paul said, "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself..." I Cor. 14:4. So the 

apostle gladly stated, "I think my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all." 

1 Cor. 14:18. 

How long will tongues continue to be manifested?

"Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail: whether there be

tongues, they shall cease: whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know

in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which 

is in part shall be done away." I Cor. 13:8-10. The phrase, "when that which is perfect is 

come," is translated from the Greek phrase "to teleion". The word

"teleion" is a singular neuter term which refers to Jesus Christ.

Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, p. 618, defines the phrase "to

teleion" as used in I Cor. 13:10: "The perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the 

return of Christ from heaven." Paul said, "Now we see through a glass, darkly; but then 

face to face: now I know in part: but then (when that which is perfect is come) shall I 

know even as also I am known." I Cor. 13:12. When the church, having reached her state 

of perfection, stands face to face in the presence of God, there will be no need for 

prophecies, tongues and knowledge. But until that which is perfect (Jesus Christ) is come, 

that which is in part will remain. And as long as there remains prophecies and 

knowledge, tongues shall not cease. So Paul instructed the church to COME BEHIND IN 

NO GIFT, WAITING FOR THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. I Cor. 1:7. 

Believe the Truth! The Speaking in Tongues is for you today! If you desire the greatest 

experience God has offered to mankind, I urge you

to repent, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for

the remission of sins, and receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost,

evidenced by speaking in tongues! 

Acts 2:4,38,39

------------------------------- :) ---------------------------

Hardane - A servant of the Lord.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Do your best (study) to win full approval in God's sight, as 

a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly

teaches the message of God's truth...The Lord's servant must

not quarrel. He must be kind toward all, a good and patient

teacher, who is gentile as he corrects his opponents. It may

be that God will give them the opportunity to repent and come

to know the truth.  (2 Timothy 2:15,24-25 TEV).

 

Message 19 in thread From: Alpha One (alpha@one.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/25

…even I experimented with glossolalia… and could, with a little practice, become rather

fluent… [however] when you can demonstrate that you can speak in various terrestrial 

languages which you had never studied, you will have my attention.

 

Message 21 in thread From: Peter Dolman (peter@technologist.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/26

Alpha One,

You make the error of "tarring all with the same brush".

The magicians of the court of the Pharaoh were able to mimic Moses'

miracles.  Using your logic, Moses miracles are now invalid!  That's silly.

What of bad preaching -- does it invalidate good preaching?  How about

those who study so they can fleece the sheep more efficiently -- do they

invalidate all studying (which you propose all should do!)?  Of course not.

So, keep the good, and throw out the evil -- but don't throw the baby out

with the bathwater!.

In Christ,

Peter

Message 35 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/29

Mr. Smith wrote:

> 

> Tongues

> 

> 

> "Love never fails.  But whether there are [gifts of] prophesying,

> they will be done away with;  whether there are tongues,

> they will cease;  whether there is knowledge, it will be done

> away with." 1 Corinthians 13:8

> 

Bonnie H wrote:

It is always dangerous to take Scripture out of context. In the

original, there is no punctuation. To quote part of a passage of

Scripture and leave it without reading the entire thing can lead you off

in strange directions. It goes on to say in I Corinthians 13:9-13, for

example: "For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that

which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be taken

away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I

thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I

know in part, but then shall I know even also as I am known. And now

abideth faith, hope, charity, these three, but the greatest of these is

charity (love)."

"That which is perfect" has not yet come, and that is why tongues have

not ceased. That which is perfect, is Jesus, and He will return. When He

does, there will no longer be any reason for tongues, because we will

see him face to face. We will no longer "see through a glass, darkly" -

we will see clearly. We will no longer know "in part", but we will know

even as we are known. And Thank God, we will no longer be childish.

Message 38 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/03

Alfred A. Kuhnert,

Bonnie H wrote:

Yes, I would say that you might be a bit confused, Al. For example, when

Paul wrote those verses, had Jesus come already, or Not? He was speaking

about when He returns. Do we have a perfect world today? Do we see

clearly? Do we know as we are known? NOT. Was He perfect when He came?

Of course. Paul was not speaking about He who had come already.

Tongues are STILL a sign to bolster the developing Church. Take a look

around. Look at these newsgroups. Do you consider the Church well

developed???? Yes, we have the Word, thank God. And no one has said to

my knowledge that we cannot build and grow without tongues. It does

teach that tongues EDIFIES the Church. Builds it up. And builds up the

person using this gift. This does not mean as in the sense of ego, but

in understanding. You are kicking around a precious gift from the Lord,

shamefully, and just because you don't care to indulge in what is

foolishness to you, you might at least acknowledge that you don't have

all of the answers. If you did, you would express kindness, not

self-righteousness. Whoever said, anywhere, that tongues was a sign to

the believer, that he was really saved? Where did you dream that up? The

Bible says that tongues is a sign to the unbelievers, and additionally,

it edifies the speaker when he prays.

What on earth does drinking poison have to do with any of the gifts of

the Spirit????

If you stop and think a bit about any of these things, and God is able

to shake up your dogmatic theology a little, it will be the best thing

that ever happened to you. God has much more to teach you, and all of

us. The very fact that Paul tells us that we see through a glass,

darkly, should give you a clue that there is more to learn, and you

could just possibly be wrong.

Message 39 in thread From: Alfred A. Kuhnert (akuhnert@misnet.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/05

Bonnie, 

Actually the GLOBE Missionary organization is one in particular which

declares that salvation is evidenced by 'tongue speaking'. A New Covenant

Church member spoke at a Bible Study about his work in Guatemala and

he is receiving support thru GLOBE. This has also been stated by other 

charismatics I've met personally.

I don't think God's voice is void in a church which has 'tongue speaking'…

 

Message 41 in thread From: Ferfer (clittlef@lonestar.jpl.utsa.edu) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/16

Prophesying, or proclaiming the will of God edifies the church. 

Look here: 1 Corinthians 14:4 "He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, 

but he who prophesies edifies the church."

Chris

Message 42 in thread From: Mark Fuller (mark_fuller@qmgate.anl.gov) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/03

Alfred A. Kuhnert, 

I think you misunderstand the purposes of tongues.  There seems to be 

two types that were present in the early church -- one was a gift for 

the edification of the church when practiced in combination with 

interpretation, and the other was for the edification of the individual 

when no interpretation was available.  I personally don't believe 

that either of these have ceased, since the section of Scripture 

talking about tongues, knowledge and prophecy ceasing seems to clearly 

indicate that "when the perfect comes" equals "when Jesus comes back 

again."  I also wouldn't want to box God in and say "God does not give 

the gift of tongues anymore." Clearly, the church does not need any 

more SCRIPTURE (we have no record of any prophet saying, "I spoke in a tongue 

and then wrote down the interpretation God gave me").  But, the church 

surely needs EDIFICATION, both individually and corporately.  When done 

within the framework of orderly worship, both tongues and prophecy 

should be exercised -- Paul says "do not forbid speaking in tongues" 

and "do not treat prophecies with contempt."

-Mark

From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/03

Paul taught that everything should be done decently and in order. If

someone goes into a church that does not believe in tongues, it is very

uncharitible to do such a thing. I don't personally know of a person

doing that - but it probably has happened, and more than once.  And I am

certain that many have been rebuked in such a case, and asked to leave,

and in such cases, they should have been rebuked. I have also many times

seen a person not use wisdom and start speaking loudly in tongues right

while the pastor was speaking. That is not of God. The message may have

been, but the timing of the person was out of order. This is why Paul

stated "The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet," meaning

that the speaker is in control. In such a case, I have seen that person

rebuked. The Holy Spirit does not interrupt Himself. That tongues has

been misused by people who let spiritual pride carry them away, does not

mean tongues is not a valid gift of the Holy Spirit. "Decently and in

order" is the key phrase here. It simply means that they were not

willing to love, and do things decently and in order. Such people should

be rebuked. 

The thing is, there is misuse of every gift God has given to us…

On the other hand, if you visit a "full-gospel" Church where

they believe in speaking in tongues, you should not be offended because

of it. One could learn a lot in such a church... 

…Christians can ask for wisdom and receive it, and we need to learn to 

pick the bones out of the fish… 

…I personally know two Christian people who visited such a church, (separate occasions)

tongue-in-cheek, who had been praying very much about a specific thing.

No one in the church knew them, or about their prayers. Both times, the

prophecy that came was specifically about that very thing in such a

personal way, the listener was convinced and now goes to that sort of

Church. In both cases, these people were visiting churches in a town away

from home.

Message 46 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/04

It is true that some people who speak in tongues are demon-possessed. It

is also true that many who do not speak in tongues are so possessed, or

controlled by demons. It is not tongues that is an indication of their

possession, but their overall behavior and manner of life. One

disrupting a service by speaking out during the preaching in a service

may, on the other hand, simply be "in the flesh" and unlearned about

proper conduct or doing things "decently and in order," and it may have

nothing to do with demon possession, and more to do with spiritual

immaturity, or spiritual pride.

Message 47 in thread From: Mark Fuller (mark_fuller@qmgate.anl.gov) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/04

Bonnie,

I agree.  The main point is that some churches DO maintain order when 

tongues and other gifts are being exercised.

-Mark

Message 50 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/03

Al,

…Paul sums up what he is saying by commenting that presently we only know things 

partly, see things darkly, (and don't know it all), that is simply where you are. You seem 

sure that you have learned the (un-searchable) depths of God and He has nothing more to 

teach you. How small is your God? Do you have him well under control so he can't do 

anything to upset your theology?

Message 55 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/04

…I don't need to prove my point, the truth is simply the truth. If you can't handle truth, that's your problem.

However - a LOT of people are interested in this gift of the Spirit.

Message 62 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/26

… Many wonderful things have come about through the gift of speaking in tongues.

Message 64 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/27

Speaking in tongues has nothing whatever to do with a "trance" state,

nor is it in any way connected to hypnosis. That is much like comparing

apples to rocks. If you don't believe in the gift of speaking in tongues

- don't speak in tongues. If you don't believe in the gifts of the Holy

Spirit, He assuredly won't force any of them on you. It is a valid

Biblical gift, millions upon millions have received it.

Message 72 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/29

Libertarius wrote:

>

>     OK. Let us look at it from YOUR point of view.

> 

>     (1) What proof do YOU have that the "tongue" is NOT "demonic"?

>         A super-intelligent "demon" could cause BOTH types of

>         behavior.

> 

>     (2) What proof does YOUR "audience" have that the interpreter

>         is "actually interpreting" what the speaker said?

> 

>     Libertarius

(1) Some "tongues" are demonic. But to believe that, you have to believe

there is a spiritual world. The gift of "discernment of spirits" reveals

to Spirit-filled Christians (not all have this gift) when tongues are

demonic. However, demonic entities do not work through "Spirit-filled"

Christians.

(2) Christians are able, through the Spirit, to judge prophecy. Demonic

beings do not speak the truth, while the Holy Spirit will never say

anything that is contrary to the Word of God. Anything that is not in

line with sound Bible doctrine is to be rejected. Interpretation of

tongues is not necessarily "translation…" 

That person can then give that word "in his own words." The Bible says

"The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet." In other words,

God does not force anyone to speak in tongues, or to give an

interpretation. He simply moves on them to do so, and if they refuse, He

will give it to someone more yielded to Him. Sometimes, if God wishes to

give a sign to an unbeliever, the tongue comes in the native tongue of

the listener. The gift of tongues is fully explained in the Bible, and

there is a lot of instruction in I Corinthians 12 $ 14.

Message 74 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/29

Libertarius,

I have no need to prove anything. You asked questions, did you expect

answers? Or, did you simply want to argue about something you obviously

know nothing about? I told you how a Christian can tell when a demonic

spirit is at work. An evil spirit might be able to deceive a Christian

into believing he is the Holy Spirit, but ONLY if that Christian is not

well grounded, does not know what the Word of God has to say, and is a

carnal and not a spiritual Christian. Your questions reveal that you

know nothing about spiritual things - so why do you argue about such

things? If you choose to not believe what the Bible teaches, its simple.

Don't believe it. I doubt very much if you will shake the faith of

anyone who has walked with the Lord any time at all, or who has been

blessed with the gift on speaking in tongues and other gifts of the

Spirit.

Message 76 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/29

Libertarius,

…[Do Speaking in Tongues] ended when the

apostles died off [?], there is no Scripture to support this [!] 

For myself, I met the Lord and was baptized in the Holy Spirit BEFORE I even

knew there IS a Holy Spirit, or read my Bible or had anyone tell me

anything, and before I ever went to a Church (except I had gone some as

a very young child). I am not "working within a belief system" - I have

a living experience with a Living God, that has continued for many

years. No one told me what to believe. I believe the Seventh-Day

Adventists are as "saved" as anyone, and I know they love the Lord. I

too have some close friends of that faith. Believing in speaking in

tongues has little to do with salvation of one's soul. Not believing,

however, cheats one out of a wonderful blessing and gift. 

… Christians don't just "believe" in Jesus Christ. They invited Him into their lives,

and His Spirit, the Holy Spirit, came to live in their spirits,

immediately. He's wonderful! He's alive. He speaks. He comforts. He

guides. He loves. Once a person meets Him, its impossible to convince

them He's not real… Christians aren't perfect, in any sense. Christians are sinners. 

That's who Jesus came to save… I don't know that I am a

charismatic, or a pentecostal. I am a Spirit-filled Christian…

From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/30

Alfred,

…I don't see in the above Scriptures where God is leaving out any believers in His desire 

to pour out this gift of His Spirit… I have given a message in tongues. I have 

prophesied…

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 does say, "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given

to EVERY MAN to profit withal." And read on. If we are all "one body"

and there is only one Spirit, how can some Christians not have the gifts

of the Spirit?????

Message 81 in thread From: Bonnie H (bonnieh@cdsnet.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/30

Why don't you read the book of Acts, and I Corinthians 12, 13 & 14 very carefully. There 

are two ways the gift of tongues is to be used. In the Church, and in one's personal prayer 

life… Interpretation is not translation… 

Before you read, pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding, if you are a 

Christian…

Message 101 in thread From: Raymond Knapp (rwknapp@hk.linkage.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/02/06

Attila 1 Libertarius,

You are talking about tongues as prophecy, as in Paul's writings tongues is

also a private prayer language and no man understands that, except God.  So

this test would not work there.   Then I have heard people speak English as

the Holy Spirit come on them, and knew not a word of the English language

in some very remote areas of the Philippines.   No schools and not English

speakers, but this one person, I do remember spoke such good English, I

took the time to test it out myself, only language that person knew was her

own native tongue.   

Then here in China, I know some that got lost and did not speak Chinese, but as they had 

the need, God met it and they spoke in tongues to the native Chinese and they even head 

a conversation, which afterward we asked what was going on, and this person told us she 

now knew where the train was and would take the party to it,   she just knew what

the Chinese person was saying, just like she was hearing it in English and

the Chinese seem to understand her speaking in tongues.  The Test is going

on daily in parts of the world that do not speak English, and tongues of God is just that.   

The truth has been tested, to keep testing and testing

is to call God a liar, and that would not be too wise a thing to do.    

There has been so many testing like you want already.    People have heard

tongues of God to the Church and the same message was given by each, even

if they were not in the same room.    There is nothing to be afraid of.   

Now if the tongues are the prayer language as found in 1 Cor. chapter 14 it

would do you no good to try to test it...   

Then of course we have the tongues of Angles and that could be a large list,

since it seems the Angles know all the tongues of man, and been around

thousands of years, who knows what they speak as their native tongue.  

Once done, and proven, doesn't mean it has to have your personal approval and your 

personal hearing and testing to make it OK.  Come over to China and maybe we can get 

you in to some remote areas and you can hear for yourself...

Raymond.

Message 108 in thread From: John Rivest (john.rivest@teldta.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues Date: 1997/01/28

[Note: Attila 1 Libertarius is involved with spiritism, also called spiritualism, and that is 

totally different to manifesting holy spirit by speaking in tongues]

If you want to experience speaking in tongues, just attend ANY 

United Pentecostal Church Service.  This is a gift from God and part of 

the New Birth Experience.

PRAISE HIM!

 

 

From: Mark Bassett (mbasset@not_optonline.net) Subject: SPEAKING IN TONGUES Newsgroups: alt.christnet.public, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal Date: 2002-01-15 21:05:01 PST

TONGUES

By: Arthur L. Clanton (article appeared in an issue of Gospel Tidings.)

The WORD "TONGUES," as it appears in the King James Version of the

Bible, is undoubtedly familiar to all Pentecostals. They believe that

speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial

sign or evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism. Those who have not spoken

with tongues have not received the Holy Ghost, though they may have

been blessed of God in repentance or in baptism in the name of the

Lord Jesus Christ.

Tongues at Pentecost

So far as tongues are concerned, what actually happened

on the day of Pentecost?

Acts 2:4 declares: "And they were all filled with the

Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit

gave them utterance." The original word for "tongues" in this

verse is "glossa," which means either "language" or "languages,"

depending upon whether the usage is singular or plural. From

this original comes the modern word "glossalalia," which is

often used today to denote speaking with tongues (languages not

learned, but used as the Spirit gives utterance).

In verse 8, this question was asked by the multitude

that assembled after the Holy Ghost was poured out on the day of

Pentecost: "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein

we were born?" The original word for "tongue" in this verse is

not "glossa," but "dialektos," which means "dialect." A dialect

is defined as "the form or variety of a spoken language peculiar

to a region or community, differing from the standard language

in matters of pronunciation, syntax, etc." The language of one

country may have in it several different dialects, spoken in

different areas of that country. India is a prime example of

this.

Verses 9-11 mention approximately sixteen different

groups present on the day of Pentecost. It is generally thought

that these were descendants of Jews of various dispersions, who

had settled in these countries, and now spoke their languages.

Approximately sixteen languages were spoken, but there could

have been many more dialects spoken, as the Holy Ghost

miraculously have these Galileans utterance. Notice that every

man heard them speak in the dialect (dialektos) wherein he was

born.

Tongues Today

As mentioned earlier, Pentecostals believe that

speaking with tongues is the initial evidence or sign of

the Holy Spirit baptism.

This belief is founded not only upon what occurred at

Pentecost, but upon other records in the Book of Acts. For

example, at Samaria (Acts 8:18) Simon the sorcerer saw something

which made him know that those upon whom the apostles laid their

hands received the Holy Ghost. What was this? It could not have

been the manifestation of joy, or divine healings and miracles,

for these had already occurred. These Samaritans must have

spoken with tongues (languages which they had not learned).

The same was true at the house of Cornelius. Peter and

the Jews with him knew that Cornelius, his kinsmen and his

friends had received the Holy Ghost, "For they heard them speak

with tongues, and magnify God" (Acts 10:46).

Later, Paul found certain disciples at Ephesus who had

not heard of the Holy Ghost. When they were baptized in the name

of the Lord Jesus, Paul laid his hands upon them, and they spoke

with tongues (languages) and prophesied (Acts 19:1-6).

Today, when one receives the Holy Ghost, he will speak

in a tongue (language) he has never learned, as the Holy Ghost

gives the utterance. It is not essential that the individual

speak in more than one tongue (language), though he may do so.

The tongue in which he speaks may be one of the many earthly

languages (perhaps even a "dead" earthly language) or the

language of angels (1 Corinthians 13:1).

This rule concerning speaking in only one tongue is not

meant to apply to the gift of tongues. The Bible says, ". . .to

another (singular) divers kinds of tongues" (plural). One who

has the gift of tongues may, on a given occasion, speak in more

than one tongue (language) as the Spirit moves him. Or he may,

at a certain time, speak in one tongue, and, at another time,

speak in an entirely different tongue.

To be perfectly fair in Scriptural interpretation, one

must admit that the word "unknown," as found in I Corinthians

14 (KJV) is not in the original manuscripts. (This is why the

word is italicized.) But any tongue is an unknown tongue if it

is not known by the one who miraculously speaks it.

Tongues Overemphasized

Speaking with tongues must be kept in the proper

perspective, and rightly related to the receiving of the Holy

Ghost. To do otherwise is perilous, indeed.

In certain circles today, undue emphasis is being placed

upon speaking with tongues. This has led honest

but misguided individuals to "seek" tongues rather than the

baptism of the Holy Ghost.

What emphasis did Jesus and the apostles place. upon

speaking with tongues? Jesus, after His resurrection, said,

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; . . .they shall

speak with new tongues" (Mark 16 : 17 ). In his sermon on the

day of Pentecost Peter said nothing about speaking with tongues.

He emphasized the life, death, resurrection and ascension of

Jesus Christ. And he told his hearers to repent, be baptized in

the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and they

would receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

At the house of Cornelius, Peter preached the same

message. As mentioned earlier, his hearers received the Holy

Ghost, and were heard to speak with tongues, yet Peter had said

nothing about speaking with tongues.

The same pattern was followed at Ephesus, where twelve

received the Holy Ghost. The twelve admitted that they had not

even heard of the Holy Ghost. In spite of this, Paul said

nothing about speaking with tongues. Perhaps they had no idea

that they would speak with tongues when they received the Holy

Ghost. And yet they did!

This is not meant to imply that it is wrong to teach

people that they will speak with tongues when they receive the

Holy Ghost. But it is wrong to so overemphasize this evidence,

that those who desire the Holy Ghost will have their minds

overly centered upon the evidence, rather than upon the gift

itself. Such people will seek to speak with tongues, rather than

seeking the Christ who gives the Holy Ghost, and also the evidence of

this divine gift.

By the same token, it is wrong for Pentecostals to try

to "make" those desiring the Holy Ghost speak with other

tongues. What better method can be found than the one in Acts

2:38? One who would receive the Holy Ghost must first repent.

Then, if God does not fill him immediately, he should be

baptized in Jesus' name. He is then promised the baptism of the

Holy Ghost. This gift may fall upon him, or he may receive it

through prayer and the laying on of hands. (It is unscriptural

to so lay hands upon one unless there is the assurance that he

has repented.)

"They HEARD Them Speak with Tongues"

Look again at Acts 10:46--"For they HEARD them speak with

tongues. . . ." If speaking with tongues is the evidence of

receiving the Holy Ghost, if those who have not spoken with

tongues have not received the gift, then we should "listen" for

this evidence. We should not be satisfied, nor should the one

desiring the Holy Ghost be satisfied, until he has spoken in

another tongue (language) as the Spirit gives utterance. Of

course, if one receives the Holy Ghost when he is alone, only he

can be the judge.

It is our prayer that what happened at Pentecost will

occur again in our day, only upon a vastly larger scale. And

what happened on that memorable day? ". . .they were all filled

with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as

the Spirit gave them utterance."

Taken from Google Talk.

From: Art Farraway (azuza@cgocable.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues.... Newsgroups: alt.christnet.public, alt.religion.christian, talk.religion.misc, alt.org.promisekeepers, alt.religion.christian.baptist, alt.christnet, alt.bible.prophecy, alt.religion.christian.pentecostal Date: 1999/01/07

G

reetings VOJ!

How are on this fine sun-shiny day?

V O J wrote:

> 

> Jerry Bryson wrote in message

> <1dl913v.fmvzdy1i15upkN@pm4-203.richmond.infi.net>...

> >Link <Linkh@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> >

> >>   But where

> >> does the Bible teach that all believers who are baptized with the Holy

> >> Ghost with unilaterally speak in tongues?  Where is the _promise_ of

> >> tongues in Scripture.  There is a promise of the Spirit, but I find no

> >> promise of tongues.

Much scriptural evidence is given in the Book of Acts to show that when

they received the Holy Ghost, they spoke with tongues.

Those who first received the Holy Ghost did...

Acts 2:4  And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to

speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

The Gentiles did...

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on

all them which heard the word.

Acts 10:45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished,

as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured

out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

Then answered Peter,

Acts 10:47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,

which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Acts 10:48  And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the

Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

The Samaritans did...

Acts 8:17  Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the

Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:18  And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles'

hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Acts 8:19  Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay

hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Remember that Simon was following the disciples around for a while, and

saw a number of miracles. When he saw them receive the Holy Ghost, he

got excited. Why?

John's disciples did...

Acts 19:4  Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of

repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him

which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Acts 19:5  When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the

Lord Jesus.

Acts 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost

came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

There is also some evidence in prophesy that this would be present...

Isa 28:11  For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to

this people.

Though today it would seem that many "would not hear"

Isa 28:12  To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the

weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

> >Where does it say the "gift" is incomprehensible babbling?

> 

> Try reading the letters of Paul, who says it is babbling (and WRONG) when no

> one is there to interpret.

What we need to realize is the simple fact that the Corinthian church

had already spoke in tongues when they received the Holy Ghost. Paul was

speaking about the gifts (plural) of the Spirit in the church. The gift

of tongues and interpretation is not the same as when one receives the

Holy Ghost. Intercessory prayer is not the same either. Worshipping in

tongues is not either.

"The gift of "divers kinds of tongues," mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor.

12:1-10 and concerning which he gave regulations in 1 Cor. 14:1-40, is

given both for self-edification (1 Cor. 14:4) and for the edification of

the church (1 Cor. 14:27-28)."

"In church meetings the gift of tongues is used to give a public

message, and it is to be interpreted. Since this gift can be misused in

public, it needs proper regulation (1 Cor. 14:23-28). Not all believers

exercise the gift of tongues, which is different in function from

tongues given by God as the initial witness of the baptism of the Holy

Ghost."

"Paul said, "Forbid not to speak in tongues" (1 Cor. 14:39) and "I thank

my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Cor.14:18). Who dares

to preach anything to the contrary?"   

The above quoted text is a portion of a small booklet I have that is

entitled, "The Apostle's Doctrine…" 

> >Failure doesn't mean you can't;

> >It just means you haven't

I like that one!

 -- 

 Best Regards!

 Arthur

Message 27 in thread From: rco3@my-dejanews.com (rco3@my-dejanews.com) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues.... Date: 1999/01/07

When Paul

says in 1 Cor. 12, "do all speak with tongues??", he is referring to the public

gift of tongues in the church setting.  The context makes this clear.  He had

just finished mentioning the nine gifts of the Spirit, that are dictated by God.  I pray in

tongues in my private prayer life, but have 

NEVER… give[n] a Public message in tongues in a church setting.

Don't confuse the gift of tongues in the

church setting with the private prayer use of tongues.  Even Paul said..."I

thank my God I speak with tongues more than you ALL, YET IN THE CHURCH".

Obviously there is a difference between public and private use of tongues.

 

Message 31 in thread From: James Walden (jwalden@arkansas.net) Subject: Re: Speaking in tongues.... Date: 1999/01/11

…God lets us have control over our tongue.  But speaking in tongues

is a sign of man being obedient to God.  God can make us do whatever he

wants us too, but its that submission to God that is important.

Taken from Google Talk.

Go to the Bible, as the Bible is the only source for the truth. 

It is a blessing to see other born again believers striving to Share with others 

the blessed truth of "Speaking in Tongues", as you can corroborate, there are 

"Thousands of Postings on Speaking in Tongues” in Google or in any other Message 

Board dealing with “Speaking in Tongues”.

To go to the previous page: http://www.oocities.org/fdocc3/sit.htm