by 'stina
Buffy s2e15
Kindly donated by 'stina's Buffy theories

Ok.. so this is based on a very old theory of mine that has been since debunked, but what the hey.

Wayyy back when we were discussing the promo to S/I and we saw someone in Angel's bed, I made the argument that vampires don't have real sex, based on intercourse. Of course, we all know how that flash of insight panned out (and makes me wonder how I ever made DGH's list...), but some of the reasoning is still usable (I think).

Here, I'm going to amend the argument a bit, and suggest that perhaps they can have intercourse (hell, I don't have to suggest it, it's well known by now), but that it's not the preferred way to have sex.

My original argument was based on several things, beginning with the start of the show. From the very first scene of the show, I think it was emphasized that the sucking thing is a sexual and seductive thing for vamps.  Darla is looking as forward to getting some as her victim is.  Her anticipation is almost tangible, and it's probably that real anticipation that makes victims so at ease with the vamps that kill them.  Victims can feel how much they are desired by the vamps, and because it really is a sexual attraction.  They just don't understand that the attraction leads to death instead of to something far more pleasurable for the victim.

I always was intrigued by the implications of homo-eroticism when Luke feeds off the Master. (I was intrigued on many levels, mainly because it was the first show, and it seemed a bit risky to me...) There is rapture on the Master's face as Luke feeds from him, and Luke is into the whole thing as well.  Because of this scene, I was under the impression for the longest time that this was the only way that vampires interacted sexually.

This notion was also supported by the notion of the "big sucking thing" which is as far as vampires are concerned, the only way to reproduce. The link between reproduction and sex is obvious, and when Angel said in Bad Eggs that he could not father children, I made the incorrect assumption that it was because he couldn't have sex. (Which leads to further questions that I'll let you contemplate on your own..)  But I did operate on the idea that there was some sort of pleasure derived from having vamp blood sucked by another, as well as doing the actual sucking. (sheesh, this is sounding bad...)

The advent of Spike and Dru added to this... It wasn't until they had been around for several episodes did they actually kiss the way normal humans do.  And Angel's comment about Dru getting off on torture, as well as her obvious joy in her task, helped develop the theory. Because of their lack of what we consider physical interaction I assumed that they had different ways of showing affection to each other. (of course there were heaps of other theories wandering around at the time.. like they were brother and sister..)

Ok, so S/I hits and my theory is dead in the water...

But I think it still works in terms of what vamps really want, what really gets them off. The first thing Angel does is suck on a woman, and his kissing Buffy has been a mockery of the physical interaction between them in the past.  Angel then finds Theresa, and essentially seduces her into becoming a vamp.

There have been suggestions of sexual tension between Spike and Angel (kiss in Innocence...) and definitely sexual interest in Dru, but I'm not sure we're talking intercourse here.  I think it's quite possible that sucking and blood exchange could be the mode of operation here.

So why post all of this now? Because I think that Darla really was getting off on Angel's "becoming."  I think that it was important to link the sexual nature of the act by concentrating on her heaving bosom (that, and the second time the message that sex=lost soul has been emphasized).  I think that if Darla had progressed any further into the sexual act, it wouldn't have been as good for her as her going straight to the sucking thing.

What I wonder now is whether Angel, as a complete vamp has any interest at all in human intercourse.  Since the most important sexual organ is the mind, and Angel's mindset has changed pretty dramatically, one wonders if it was only the presence of the soul that allowed him to have intercourse with Buffy, because he wanted to. (Of course, there is no real proof that there was actual intercourse, but I think it can be inferred...)

Anyhow.. maybe I'm rambling again, but it's an interesting thing to think about.


Opinions

bebesho 4/2/00
...How does a male vampire have an erection? If he does not have warm blood of his own to make this happen? I mean he has no sperm because he is DEAD..so this brings the obvious up..how does he have intercourse?...

Vox 5/2/00
Vampires do have blood in their veins (as in Becoming where Angelus used his own blood on his hand to pull the sword from Acathla), this blood however is dead. It does not circulate (vampires have no heart-beat ergo no way to pump it around the body). Of course Joss hasn't mentioned how Buffyverse vampires might achieve an erection, but in the world of Vampire: The Masquerade vampires can 'will' the blood to engorge the penis (though in that universe there is little incentive as they take no pleasure from intercourse) perhaps in a similar manner that men can to a limited extent.

The question this leads onto is exactly whether or not Angel achieved any sort of orgasm. As you said he doesn't have sperm but semen is only consists partially of sperm. One thing that might be relevant to his moment of happiness is that he did not lose his soul at the moment of orgasm, rather they had finished and he was lying asleep (perhaps in that moment of perfect contentment) when it happened.

justjo 29/1/00
...I think the issue here is a conflict between Anne Ricean vampire lore (which was quite traditional and probably hitherto accepted by most of us, who probably had a background in Vampire fiction pre-Buffy?) and Whedon vampire lore which seems to bend to fit plot lines quite often. In Queen of the Damned, Lestat notices his organ still functions even though he is quite detatched from the event (especially as the context is non-sexual)...

Obviously no souless vampires would be attracted to humans sexually, only through the sucking thing, as you so succinctly put it. Remember when Spike drunkenly pours his soul out to Willow and in a moment of tenderness lunges for her neck? Angel is different as he's soulful, as it were. Also sex between vampires seems to be on a different level, there's a mutual attraction of species that isn't there with humans.

Vox 30/1/00
...There is a role-playing system out there by a company called White Wolf called Vampire: The Masquerade ... vampires are capable of directing blood to the relevant parts of the body in order to make intercourse feasible, however they don't actually get any pleasure from it, rather they take it from Embracing (vamping) mortals which goes along the same lines as Whedon (they suck you, you suck back, mixing of fluids, almost like an STD).

It has been speculated that the same applies to Buffyverse vampires, hence the preponderence of weak new-born vamps that requires Buffy's constant patrol of graveyards. It might be that feeding itself is not such a big rush and that all these new-borns (that their sires seem not the least bit interested in protecting) are actually the vampires venting their libidos on their victims.

... I agree with you about normal vampires not being attracted to mortals (though like Spike, they might remember being so, enough to have an objective standard of particular mortals attractiveness) ... they must look upon humanity as cattle, their feeding-stock. Imagine the people in the world that want to sleep with farm-animals, that's pretty much *eugh* to us. Perhaps Angel's considered something of a bestiophile among the rest. And I think I agree that it's the soul that makes the difference. Vamps see mortals as cattle, but a souled vampire might be no different, yet he can actually care enough to fall in love and therefore enjoy the intimacy of the intercourse (enough to get over the whole 'sleeping with food' thought), without actually gaining much from the physical activity itself.

So maybe it was the intimacy rather than the sex itself that led to the moment of happiness.

justjo 31/1/00
...Is Angel so in love with/attracted to Buffy because of the idea that her very essence is fated to destroy Angelus, she's like the embodiment of his feelings of self destructiveness and self hatred and this somehow absolves him?

Gabby Spike 4/2/00
I agree with justjo's comment that Joss bends the lore to his purposes. For all we know, he originally intended that Angel *not* be able to or desire to have sex with Buffy. Then the vision changed and the rules changed with it. I'd say that for the vamps the "sucking thing" is the crux of their sexuality not only is it fun, it keeps them undead (quite a perk). Honestly, with the look of rapture on the vamp's (and often even the victim's: check Buffy's face and body language when Angel fed off of her in GD2) face, there's no WAY it's NOT a sexual act.

Margot Le Faye 4/2/00
In point of fact, the idea that vampires cannot have intercourse is a corruption of the orignal Eastern European folktales on which Bram Stoker (Dracula), Polidori (The Vampyre), Sheridan Le Fanu (Carmilla) and other 18th century writers based their vampire mythos. In the original folklore, vampires are very sexual creatures, said to "wear out there widows with their attentions." (Quoted from "Vampires, Death and Burial" a folklorists look at the vampire legend. I'm quoting from memory and don't recall the name of the author or the exact page.) Further, in Rumanian gypsy folklore has it that vampires could produce offspring,dhampires. Dhampires were inimical to their parents, and were said to be able to see the undead in their invisible state, and to unerringly locate their graves. The last known ceremony in which a dhampire fought a vampire that had been preying upon a community occurred in Hungary...in the 1950's (within my lifetime.)

Because vampire fiction in western literature was popularized during the Victorian era (Polidori and a few others wrote the first tales at the beginning of the century, but the creature really didn't catch on in the popular imagination until later in the century, probably with the serialization of the Varney the Vampire in the newspapers)the sexual elements of vampirism had to be sublimated. Thus, the blood exchange took on more sexual significance.

The real issue is, of course, not what sucking means in traditional vampire folklore or western vampire fiction, but what it means in Joss' Buffyverse.

For that, I think the "drink me" scene in G2, with Buffy achieving orgasm while Angel drains her might go far toward resurrecting your theory of vampire sexuality. Don't doubt that she does indeed reach a sexual climax. If watching the scene doesn't convince you, and if Joss' comments that the censors were so busy worrying about the guns in act four that they missed what happened at the end of act one isn't enough of a hint, I recently read an interview with SMG in which she explicitly (no pun intended) said that the character reached orgasm in that scene.

Then again, think of the scene in School Hard in which we first meet Spike and Dru. Dru scratchs Spike's face open and licks the cut. It is clear from his expression that he enjoys the act.

I believe that what is going on is that bloodsucking is definitely a sexual act for vampires, and, under certain circumstances, their victims. I don't think it replaces sexual intercourse so much as it enhances and amplifies it. In other words, it's just another part of the larger picture.

dusk's daughter 5/2/00
I believe that between vampires mutual blood sucking is one of many sexual acts that also includes intercourse. People have many ways of getting sexual satisfaction why shouldn't vamps. One mistake everyone seems to make is that it was just having sex that gave Angel his moment of "pure happiness" that caused him to lose his soul. That's why Faith tried to seduce him on orders from the Mayor. But I don't think it would have done any good because it was not just having sex that made him lose his soul it was making love with someone he loved very much. I also think that when he drank from Buffy that was very sexual for him. It didn't cause him to lose his soul because he also felt shame and guilt and so was not purely happy.

slayer 19/2/00
What i think you've missed is what Buffy is actually about. The monsters are metaphors for what we (teenagers especially) have to deal with throughout life. And of course the sex issue is something that we've all had to deal with at some time or another. I know you'll all be thinking "We're talking about vampires here" but all i'm asking is to not forget the message that is trying to be given to us in the episode were Buffy and Angel sleep together, and that is that sometimes the person who you fall asleep with isn't always the person you wake up with. I feel that the Buffy crew are giving a clear message to teenagers around the world, sometimes people make mistakes, and whether the person is human or not sex is an important subject, and not to be taken ... lightly.


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I think that Angel can produce sperm, but that it is useless because it wouldn't survive outside the body. Vampires need blood to make their blood move, like oxygen to us. But it runs out, which is why they feed. But extracting their blood or organs for that matter, would not work, because they would die outside the demon, in the same way sperm would!

foxyroxy_uk 5/10/00
I also think that Angel and Buffy enjoyed the feeding because it brought them together, as Spike and Dru do.


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Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: The Series are the property of the WB Network or perhaps Fox, maybe both. I'll leave them to work it out and contact me with the result. This web site, its operators and any content on this site relating to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are not authorized by Fox. No copyright infringement intended. This site is for entertainment purposes only and does not profit in any way.

The pictures were taken from The Slayer Show and are © the WB.

The Above the Law banner is an altered form of a screen-cap taken from the The Slayer Show, the original screen-cap is © the WB.