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Author Topic:   Vampire Healing Powers?
Byron
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posted 18-04-2000 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Does anyone here wonder just what severity of injuries a vampire could heal from? I know they're extremely powerful & immortal, but there has to be a limit somewhere! For instance, could a vamp regenerate a lost limb, or sever brain damage? (The immortals off ‘highlander’, for example, could heal just about anything EXCEPT damage to the neck.) Just wondered, as we've never seen any disabled vamps. Kakistos (‘Faith, Hope & Trick’) had an opaque cornea, but I recon he was still regenerating the wound, as it was recent. (ala Spike taking time to heal a broken back) Any theories on this (weird ) subject would be appreciated!

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StuStuStu
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posted 18-04-2000 06:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StuStuStu   Click Here to Email StuStuStu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
We've also seen a vampire with a brain problem, in "Helpless" - so it's clear that not everything is heal-able.

*waits for Vox*

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Antonius
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posted 19-04-2000 12:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Antonius   Click Here to Email Antonius     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I don't think Vampires can regenerate limbs.
Remember back in season 1 of Buffy when there was a Vampire with a claw,i think it was in Teacher's Pet.

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Byron
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posted 19-04-2000 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I'm afraid I didn't see season 1 (Terrible, I know! ) Did they say WHEN the vamp had lost the limb? I only ask as on 'highlander', immortals took several YEARS too re-grow a limb. (Gross, but cool! )

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Antonius
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posted 19-04-2000 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Antonius   Click Here to Email Antonius     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yeah, the Master cut it off,but i can't remember why? Maybe a Vampire can grow back a limb, but it probably takes a very long time, which isn't a problem for a Vampire if you think about it.

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Antonius
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posted 19-04-2000 01:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Antonius   Click Here to Email Antonius     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I miss read your question.No they did not say how long ago it was when he lost his arm.

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FFB
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posted 19-04-2000 01:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFB   Click Here to Email FFB     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Fork guy is "a vampire who displeased the Master and cut his hand off in penance." No mention of when this happened.

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manic_jude
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posted 19-04-2000 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for manic_jude   Click Here to Email manic_jude     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well, if you notice Spke healed from the church falling on him, but pretty slowly, so that's probably a good example, he still has a scar on his eyebrow though.

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Keenangel
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posted 19-04-2000 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keenangel     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Byron:
I'm afraid I didn't see season 1 (Terrible, I know! ) Did they say WHEN the vamp had lost the limb? I only ask as on 'highlander', immortals took several YEARS too re-grow a limb. (Gross, but cool! )

Did they? Y'know, I didn't know that, me being a Highlander fan and all.

As for vampiric healing powers? as long as they aren't staked, burned or beheaded, they will pretty much recover from anything. But what about massive blood loss? Would that kill them?

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Byron
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posted 19-04-2000 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
It was never clearly stated on the show Keenangel, but the fans worked it out for themselves. (From the epps about that Immortal with a missing arm) It seems to have been accepted as cannon now! (If only more shows listened to their fans like that! )If the vamps can recover from anything (Bar staking & beheading, of course) - HELP! Good thing we've got the likes of Buffy & Angel to keep them at bay!

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AxB
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posted 22-04-2000 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AxB   Click Here to Email AxB     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Massive blood loss wouldn't kill a vamp, just leave it weak and dehydrated. The only things that kill Buffyworld Vamps are sunlight, stake through heart, decapitation, and that poison Faith gave Angel at the end of s3.... so far

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yally
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posted 22-04-2000 10:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yally   Click Here to Email yally     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by manic_jude:
Well, if you notice Spke healed from the church falling on him, but pretty slowly, so that's probably a good example, he still has a scar on his eyebrow though.

The scar on Spike's eyebrow is real, apparently he got it from a mugging or something......

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MonSTeR
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posted 22-04-2000 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MonSTeR   Click Here to Email MonSTeR     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Just an idea, but...

Maybe things that happen Pre-Vamp don't heal, and those that happen after do heal?

That could get round James'/Spike's scar.

Something to do with Vampiric enery restoring pluripotentiality to the cells, meaning they can do stuff like regrow lost limbs and stuff?

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AxB
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posted 23-04-2000 01:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AxB   Click Here to Email AxB     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I've come accross that in something Vampiric, I think it was Vampire Cyberpunk, where you could tell if a Vampire was a fledgling because Vamp's couldn't have Cyberarms or Cyberoptics unless they'd had them as a human.

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AxB
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posted 23-04-2000 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AxB   Click Here to Email AxB     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Which also suggests that Angel's Tattoo is pre-Vamping....

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spikesgirl
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posted 23-04-2000 08:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spikesgirl     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Hi when spike first came in in S2 school hard he already had the scar

......................I think

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RedWitch
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posted 23-04-2000 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for RedWitch   Click Here to Email RedWitch     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by spikesgirl:
Hi when spike first came in in S2 school hard he already had the scar

......................I think



He would have done... as already discussed by me & yally [I think] in the 'least favourite character' thread [I think], the scar is James [Marsters]' own. He had an eyebrow peircing that got ripped out during a mugging. [Aww poor baby, let RedWitch look after that for you, and look at any more peircings that need attending to at the same time... ]
Sorry, got carried away there...

[This message has been edited by RedWitch (edited 23-04-2000).]

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Byron
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posted 23-04-2000 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Monster, thats a great theory! As I'm sure Keenangel will tell you, (being a 'highlander' fan n'all) something pretty similar happened to the immortals in highlander. For instance, scars recieved before 'immortality hit' remained forever! (Or untill the got beheaded!) As for James Masters genuine scar, I'm glad the makeup guys didn't try & remove it! There's too many American shows filled with 'perfect people' as it is!

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yally
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posted 25-04-2000 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for yally   Click Here to Email yally     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I didn't think it was from an eyebrow piercing (well, I did at first), but I suppose it could be. Why do I care neway ?

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yally
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posted 25-04-2000 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yally   Click Here to Email yally     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I mean, I'm just going on and on about some1s eyebrow

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Vox
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posted 25-04-2000 03:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StuStuStu:
.*waits for Vox*


We haven't actually seen a vampire heal anything that a normal human can't heal, it merely seems they can heal faster and are less concerned with the damage as it is inflicted (note Angel's lack of concern about being shot on repeatedly).

A human can't regrow a limb, so fork guy wouldn't regrow his hand.

So, as a convenient provisional rule before we see any contradictory evidence, I would say that vampires can heal every a normal human can, but nothing else.

After all, is there any reason why they should be able to regrow a limb?

There's also no reason why vampires shouldn't scar or, for that matter, bruise. But again we can assume that their healing ability means that any surface scratch would heal in seconds (as we saw in 'School Hard' and 'Becoming'). Again we can hypothesise that what would make a permanent scar on a human would also permanently scar a vampire (hence Spike's eyebrow scar, Angel's tatoo and Kakistos' pirate impression). Since there are no permanent bruises we can assume they might appear and fade extremely quicky.

On another point, vampires seem to be aware of damage inflicted on their host body but they aren't so intrinsically connected to it that they are incapacitated by pain, as would be consistent with the idea of a controlling demon essence separate from the actual body. They register pain but do not feel it as we would, that being said they must feel it to some degree: Angel groaned at the gunshots in 'Angel' as did vampWillow's subordinate during the finger breaking exercise in 'Dopplegangland'.


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spikesgirl
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posted 25-04-2000 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spikesgirl     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
aWW I didnt know it was James Marsters Scar aww how could anyone do such a thing to him

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MonSTeR
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posted 25-04-2000 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MonSTeR   Click Here to Email MonSTeR     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
What about the cross burn/scar that buffy leaves on Angel's chest in Buffy S1 e7 "Angel"?

That burn should have left a big permanent scar, yet it doesn't seem to have? (I don't have sky so I've only seen him with his shirt off in S2 andS3.

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Keenangel
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posted 25-04-2000 11:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Keenangel     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Nope there isn't a scar (I've checked ) but maybe instead of leaving a scar, it scabbed and dropped off?

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Vox
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posted 25-04-2000 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MonSTeR:
What about the cross burn/scar that buffy leaves on Angel's chest in Buffy S1 e7 "Angel"?

Human bodies can heal burns, so vamp bodies can heal them even faster. We only saw it for a few seconds, there's no reason why it couldn't have faded inside of a minute. The cross damages the vampire when it comes into contact, but then the vampire healing can kick in as soon as its removed.

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Giles the grocer
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posted 25-04-2000 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Giles the grocer     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
quote:
I would say that vampires can heal every a normal human can, but nothing else.

I think we have seen them heal things humans can't, like multiple gun shots to the gut. If vamps can regrow internal organs then they should be able to regrow limbs. I know vamps don't need internal organs, but I doubt Angel is walking around with holes in his intestines covered by the flesh thats healed over it. Also if vamps can't heal things humans can't, then considering vamps seem to use their brains (ie helpless) you could theorectically kill a vamp by removing it's brain with a spoon. I'd like to think the vamps brain would grow back (like seems the wrong word some how). Also you would think vamps would be more scared of guns cos someone could blow their face off or put enough holes in their brains to make them vegatables and they wouldn't recover. I personally belive they can heal anything in time, short of decapitation, staking, direct sunlight and possibly fire (this one seems to go in and out though).

[This message has been edited by Giles the grocer (edited 25-04-2000).]

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Byron
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posted 26-04-2000 12:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Interesting argument Vox! However, I believe there is clear evidence that this is not the case. In 'Lie to Me', when the church organ fell on Spike, he suffered massive damage to his spine. We know this because he was in a wheelchair for the remainder of season two. But eventually he recovered, and was able to walk again, with no lasting impairment to his mobility. Now, a normal human's spinal nerves cannot regenerate by themselves. The only way this would be possible is with surgery, which is highly experimental, and only just becoming possible. This would most certainly not have been available to Spike, so this is a clear example of a vampire possessing super-human healing powers.
(My original post was not questioning the existence of these abilities, just their extent.)

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Vox
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posted 26-04-2000 01:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Vampire use of brains ~
No disagreement with you there. My explanation for this runs along the lines of:

"This theory relies on the demonic essence using the human nervous system to control their host bodies,. On such a picky question of metaphysiology I didn't think I'd find any supporting evidence from the show, but I was wrong. Insanity is medically explained by an imbalance in the chemicals in the brain, Drusilla was driven mad while she was still human and that madness continued on after she was turned (possibly also Kralik's addiction which was developed while human(?) was shared by the demon). Drusilla's demon must use her brain, if the demon had some other method of control then there would be no reason why she should be insane."


IMO if you scooped out the brains of a vampire then the vampire wouldn't die (as the demon essence inside is only banished by certain specific things) but that essence would no longer have any means of controlling the host body. They would be paralysed for all intents and purposes.

I don't think the brain would grow back.

I think vampires should be more scared of guns.

I think Wesley should carry one! (Honestly, a crossbow? Doesn't he know that's sooo 1480s)

As to the damage we've seen to Angel over the years, I'm sure humans are able to repair a certain amount of damage taken by gunshot wounds (IS THERE A DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?) and if the internal organs don't actually function afterwards, who cares? He wasn't using them anyway.


Spike's injury ~

I agree that vampires have a healing ability that is most definitely superhuman. What I'm saying is that this is only because of how quickly they can heal, rather than what they can actually heal.

Spike got a church dropped on him in 'What's my line' and then we saw him as Mr. Swivel'n'Spin a couple of episodes later. He could obviously not move his legs but I can't remember ever finding out what his injuries were. It might have just been his legs that were shattered. That would certainly explain why he healed faster than even Drusilla or Angelus expected. Even if it was a spinal injury a human can recover from them so long as the spinal cord itself isn't cut.

To my mind a human could have recovered fully from what might have possibly been Spike's injuries. Not nearly as quickly, of course, but that's what makes vampires special after all.

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Byron
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posted 26-04-2000 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Vox, I love your posts! (And your web site is brilliant! )

I believe, however, there was clear evidence that Spikes Spinal cord was not only severed, but was crushed. This involves the nerves being impacted by several different vertebrae, and would prove fatal to a human. I presume this as the church organ was of such a weight that this would almost certainly have to happen. And he could not move his legs at all. (As far as it appeared) Plus, his legs appeared to be pretty much intact, thus removing the possibility of the bones being shattered.

Also, if you recall the episode 'I only have eyes for you', Angelus fell from the balcony of Sunnydale high after being 'shot' by Buffy. A fall from the same spot killed a human instantly, but Angelus recovered in a few minutes. He fell from a considerable distance onto his back, and his spine would almost certainly have been broken.

My point is that vampires can regenerate central nervous system damage, which is far beyond the abilities of humans. Anyway, I'm sure joss said at one point that Spikes back was broken, but I cannot confirm this.

Also, as 'Giles the Grocer' said, humans cannot repair their internal organs. From the evidence of vampires recovering almost instantaneously from gunshot wounds, (When Kate shoots the vamps in ‘Prodigal’, for example) I must conclude that vamps can heal things that humans cannot. There are only three ways to destroy a vampire (decapitation, staking, & sunlight) and for this theory to work, vampires must be able to heal injuries humans simply could not. If not, as Giles stated, all you would have to do is spray a vampire with bullets, and these would destroy their internal organs, permanently incapacitating them.

I still wonder what is beyond a vamp though! (But I'm sure Vox will have plenty more ideas on this subject! )

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MonSTeR
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posted 26-04-2000 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MonSTeR   Click Here to Email MonSTeR     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
We're going into this too much. I know about as much about vamps as I need to. None of us have the "concrete" facts of the Jossverse if any exist, only our own observations of the TV shows Which for me is Buffy seasons 12 and bit of 3 and a smattering of Angel episodes.

We can rabbit on about the totipotentiality or not of their cells like can the grow new teeth, can they repair severed nerves, Vampires in the Jossverse are magical beings and they can heal what the writers want them to. They can also keep tat's and scars cos the writers want them to.

I just give up on this trying to rationalise the living properties of dead things It's too much like bashing my head against a brick wall with a blindfold on when I'm in the middle of a field.

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Byron
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posted 26-04-2000 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
You could well be right monster! I guess I'm just obsessed with those pesky vamps!

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Vox
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posted 26-04-2000 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yeaaah, I agree. With what little info we have I think we've done the whole vampire healing factor thing to death.

Unless someone's remembered a crucial bit of overlooked evidence out there...?

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Vox
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posted 29-04-2000 11:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Dammit I hate it when I'm wrong, but at least I remembered it before anyone else...

Somnabulist Angel took a stake through the stomach and out the other side. I don't think that's something a human can just recover from without major medical assistance. I still don't think that a vamp could regrow a limb, but there's obviously something beyond a fast recovery rate those vamps have got going for them.

Either that or beneath that layer of skin, Angel's got more holes than Ledemmayer.

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StuStuStu
Watcher
posted 30-04-2000 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StuStuStu   Click Here to Email StuStuStu     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Well, we've already discussed that stakes are a special case as purports to vampires - maybe that's true of the healing thing too?

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yally
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posted 30-04-2000 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for yally   Click Here to Email yally     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I've just thought of something. I missed the ep that explained Dru's weakness, but she was still very weak and wouldn't have recovered if it weren't the ritual Spike did/tried 2 do.

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Vox
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posted 30-04-2000 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that was odd. Dru appeared physically fine but her strength was sapped. And I don't think they ever explained what happened to her beyond that it was done by a mob (Go Mob!) in Prague.


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Byron
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posted 01-05-2000 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Byron   Click Here to Email Byron     Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
I've always wondered whether Dru had had some sort of spell put on her in Prague. (Just a thought) It couldn't have been nerve damage, as we've seen Spike heal from this. Though I know Vox disagrees with me on this one!

Also, I've just come up with another idea that could explain James Masters scar. Maybe it remained because it was inflicted on the area of his 'game face?' This would also explain Kakistos' 'Pirate impression'! As the game face is an addition to the human body, perhaps the area around it is vulnerable to damage?

Just a (very complex!) thought!

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