Angel s1e10

There's a bit of a difference between the demons in Buffy and the demons in Angel, while for Buffy demons remain little better than predatory animals which must be destroyed or neutered to protect humanity, for Angel demons can be valuable productive members of society.

Increasingly we've seen the softer side of the demonic in LA. This all started back in Becoming with Whistler, a demon that fights for the side of good. Then, in Enemies, we met a more human demon who wasn't interested in killing, but instead wanted to offload the books of Ascension. Though Buffy threatened him with her stake, this was to get him to stop wasting her time rather than a serious attempt to kill him.

In LA we've met more of this new friendlier demon, right from the start we were introduced to Francis Doyle, a half-demon that acted as a medium through which TPTB could assign Angel tasks. He ran into some trouble with the Straleys from The Bachelor Party trying to eat his brains, but despite this slight cultural mix-up, the Straleys were fully integrated members of society. They married humans, owned restaurants and worked their way up the property ladder. In Hero we were introduced to a whole new concept, a demon species bent on purging their half-bred demonic brethren. Now they weren't particularly friendly, but the little grey guys were, more demons who lived within society. The Kungai from Parting Gifts seemed to have its human supporters, Barney quickly gained the sympathy and aid of Angel, and, well, who couldn't feel sorry for the poor Ethros demon, trapped night and day within that Macaulay Culkin-a-alike.

In Angel we've increasingly seen demons being portrayed as sympathetic characters. As people, deserving of consideration and fundamental rights to life and liberty so long as they don't transgress the 'rules' of society. Buffy, however, there has been a long established, 'if it ain't human then the Slayer got to kill it' attitude. This position has not as of yet appeared unreasonable because every single demon has weighed into attacking her or some other innocent before they were killed. But what if this didn't always happen?

Let me introduce you to a character, he's a vampire (through no fault of his own), let's call him Vince. Say hello, Vince.

"Hello"

Vince is a bit of a spod, he was doing a degree in criminology and punishment before he was vamped. And, like vampHarmony, he is little changed from when he was mortal. As has happened to many of his kind, he has been set upon by the Slayer. He was minding his own business, walking along when this small, blonde girl started hitting him.

Buffy: "When are you fang-features going to learn that Sunnydale isn't good for your health?"

Vince: "Why are you hitting me?"

B: "Cos it makes it easier to stake you if you're not walking any more."

V: "Why do you want to stake me?"

B: "You're a vampire! I'm a vampire slayer. Stakage kind of goes with the job."

V: "But what have I done?"

B: "I don't know. Suck blood, kill people, terrorise children blah, blah, blah."

V: "No I haven't."

B: "Of course you have, you're a vampire."

V: "I know I'm a vampire, but I haven't hurt anyone."

B: "How do you feed then?"

V: "I buy my blood from a slaughterhouse."

B: "Where do you get the money from? Bet you steal it from your victims, huh?"

V: "Not at all, because my body was never found I was never declared legally dead. I'm still living off my student loan."

B: "Well you better liquidate your assets, 'cos here comes Mr. Pointy."

V: "Wait a minute, why do you still want to kill me?"

B: "Even if I believed you (which I don't by the way)..."

V: "I swear I'm telling the truth."

B: "Whatever, you're still a vampire, you've either done or you're going to do something evil."

V: "Now wait there, you have nothing to say I have done anything evil at all, have you?"

B: "Apart from those two pointy teeth that say 'I've done evil things' to me."

V: "Have you?"

B: "No... But I know you're gonna."

V: "I say I won't do anything evil, and anyway you can't punish me for something I might do in the future. We all might do something in the future, you can't have prospective punishment for potential crimes. Everyone would be guilty. The police could go round gunning people down and say they were justified because of the crimes the people might have gone on to commit!"

B: "Listen, buddy. Vam-pire Slay-er, that's what it says on my resume. I slay vampires. You vampire. I slay you. Kabbisch?

V: "So, your entire argument for ending my existence relies on semantics? I'm going to be killed over my label?

B: "Would you just try and fight back already?

V: "No."

B: "Go on!" *whack*

V: "Ow! No!"

B: "Giiiiiles! This one's not playing fair!"

All of a sudden routine patrol has turned into a ethical nightmare.
(Needless to say, Joss Whedon will not be ringing me, desperate for ideas for season 5.)

So should Buffy stake Vince? She has no way of telling whether he is telling the truth, whether he's just come from a soup kitchen where he feeds the homeless or whether he's just come from a soup kitchen where he feeds on the homeless. But can she justifiably stake Vince without knowing that he has done something wrong?

Staking is permament, she has to be sure. But if she lets him go and he goes and feeds on people, then their deaths will be equally permament.

What if Vince wasn't a vampire but another sort of demon, should that affect her decision?

Should demons and vampires have rights?


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Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: The Series are the property of the WB Network or perhaps Fox, maybe both. I'll leave them to work it out and contact me with the result. This web site, its operators and any content on this site relating to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are not authorized by Fox. No copyright infringement intended. This site is for entertainment purposes only and does not profit in any way.

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The Above the Law banner is an altered form of a screen-cap taken from the The Slayer Show, the original screen-cap is © the WB. s no choise but to follow it's "Program". While this brings up the question of whether the demons are evil in the philosophical sense, they still have to be fought. It's like a tornadoe. it isn't evil it's just a force, but you still do whatever it takes to keep it from killing you, if that includes destroying the tornadoe, then so be it. You didn't attack it, it attacked you. Even demons that have integrated into society are unable to be "good" (see The Bachelor Party).

aleea 31/7/00
Okay so Buffy does have this 'if it ain't human then the Slayer got to kill it' thing going on. Angel however is non-human, yet non-evil (mostly) and so his sympathies are more easily understood. He may not be an activist for "non-human rights" but he can empathise with hostility because most people don't have the time to work out he's a nice guy once they work out he's a vampire. Buffy's prejudice is natural, but so is the sympathy which Angel and Doyle can portray from their own perspective.

In Buffy's defence though- she is working from the Hellmouth- which isn't really your 2.4 Demon area.

truebuffyfankm 1/8/00
Yes she should stake him. Even if this vampire has feelings and is not hurting people, it's still a demon at the core of it. Now if this certain vampire has been given a purpose by The Powers That Be besides drink blood and move on then okay don't. But even then he would have to prove himself in a way so she knows for sure.

ajn 18/8/00
OK now we get into the whole "rights are species specific " debate, and at the moment as a matter of law ( and much to the horror of the animal rigts lobby) they are, human beings have greater rights than other species. However, actual randon killing without justification ( say the requirement to protect yourself from, eat or experiment on the animal .. all of which are subject to seperate and not insigificant regulation) infringes even the rights of animals.. cruelty prosecutions, wildlife acts etc, viz if you can't kick a cat to death without fear of prosecution then you cannot prima facie kill a demon ( if one exists) without running the same risk. So even if they do not have the same rights as a human a demon /vampire would have " enough" rights as an animal to protect it from random killing. And one assumes that the initiative , were it Uk based, would require as a minimum a Home Office Licence for what is essentially in their terms vivisection.

foxyroxy_uk 5/10/00
If 'Vince' was turned into a vampire, he would lose his inner goodness - 'soul'. A random demon from Hell or wherever they make them would fill his body. This demon would not be trying to help people or even avoiding killing them because it would be a force for darkness, and evil isn't kind or gentle! The only way a vampire could be nice is perhaps if he/she were a half-breed, or if he/she had a soul.


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Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel: The Series are the property of the WB Network or perhaps Fox, maybe both. I'll leave them to work it out and contact me with the result. This web site, its operators and any content on this site relating to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" are not authorized by Fox. No copyright infringement intended. This site is for entertainment purposes only and does not profit in any way.

The picture was taken from The Slayer Show and is © the WB.

The Above the Law banner is an altered form of a screen-cap taken from the The Slayer Show, the original screen-cap is © the WB.