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Author Topic:   Big brother!!!!
Stake
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posted 01-06-2000 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stake   Click Here to Email Stake     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
In restless buffy called xander big brother and then there was an intense moment where they stared at each other. Do you think it's possible that they could be bro and sis. Or was it just symbolic. Do you think it would be a good thing if it were somehow true. After all you never see xanders father maybe he's buffys father. What do you think I mean it's just wow.

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Idiot Jed
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posted 01-06-2000 08:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Idiot Jed   Click Here to Email Idiot Jed     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
I don't think it was literal, cause also you saw Xander's dad (or at least who we presume to be his father) in the dream. But I do think it was one of the points Joss expected the fans to latch onto, and thus probably does have some sort of signifigance for the future.

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julz
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posted 01-06-2000 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for julz   Click Here to Email julz     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Or, back in the non-leap-of-faith world, that would just mean that she has started seeing him "as a brother". (Similar to the way she loves him; not "like a lover") That's the point imho.

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Alex
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posted 01-06-2000 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex   Click Here to Email Alex     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
julz - but it was Xander's dream, not Buffy's. And I'm pretty sure the way Tara and Willow and Joyce behaved in xander's dream was the way he dreamed of them not the way they really thought of him. So "Big brother" is how Xander wants Buffy see him, not the way she really does see him, imho.

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killercoyote
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posted 01-06-2000 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for killercoyote   Click Here to Email killercoyote     Edit/Delete Message  70928569   Reply w/Quote
I read this in another post so sorry to whoever posted it but it crossed my mind too.
What with the whole watcher thing, Spike learning to be one etc... the big brother quote ties eerily in with the novel 1984 by George Orwell. Personally I can't see Xander as a watcher, but maybe he feels that is the one avenue where he could be of use...not having supernatrual strength or knowledge of wicca etc. I think also that the other posts have been correct and that this 'Big Brother' thing has more than one meaning i.e Buffy percieving him as a 'Big Brother' figure.

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Alex
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posted 01-06-2000 11:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex   Click Here to Email Alex     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Can you explain to me just how it ties in with "Big Brother" in 1984? 'Cos maybe I'm just being dumb, but I don't get it at all. I mean, you don't think Buffy feels that xander is watching her all the time do you? Or that he's some kind of mysterious force trying to control her life? And I don't think "Big Brother" is such an unusual phrase that it has to be related to every time it's ever been used in a novel. So what am I missing?

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killercoyote
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posted 02-06-2000 03:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for killercoyote   Click Here to Email killercoyote     Edit/Delete Message  70928569   Reply w/Quote
Okay, now firstly Alex, this is just a wild stab in the dark, it is probably rubbish and is definately complete speculation.

All the same I'll go slow, cause you seem a tad confused.

If we go with the assumption that Xander wants to be a watcher (silly as it may seem) but if we go with it, then Buffy calling him Big Brother could very well be a reference to the book 1984. In this book, the so called 'Big Brother' is the figurehead leader of the oppresive party who govern the state, the point being 'Big Brother' is a watcher...he is always watching you. Now Buffy calling Xander Big Brother might possibly be Xander's subconcious desire to be a watcher, Buffy's watcher...like I said, it's tenuous, but I'm just explaining what the reference to the book was about and how it ties in.

Hope this helps you some

Usually this would not be such a big contention point on it's own, but the Giles/Spike on the swings scene, with Spike saying how he's going to become a watcher, made me wonder whether actually, it might be Xander who wanted to be the watcher. I know it sounds silly...so what? I once wanted to be the Littlest Hobo, it's not such a big deal


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DJ Billy Gaze
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posted 02-06-2000 10:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DJ Billy Gaze   Click Here to Email DJ Billy Gaze     Edit/Delete Message  72498361   Reply w/Quote
Just had a thought, maybe Xander's dream was the worst possible case scenario.

We've seen on more than one occasion that Xander needs little encouragement to turn on Spike, so to see him training to be a watcher would probably turn his whole perception of good and evil on it's head.

We know that Xander has been holding a candle for Buffy ever since he first set eyes on her. The worst possible thing that could happen that could happen is for her to think of him as a brother (guys, back me up on this one).

Everyone knows how Xnader feels about Willow, so to see her with Tara probably drives him mad.

We all know what happened with Joyce in BB and B

The ice cream van thing is probably a reference to the sort of job he fears he may end up doing.

Tie all this in with the appearance of his father and it all add up to Xander's worst fears about his own life and insecurity.

Anyway, it's probably all rubbish anyway!!!

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killercoyote
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posted 02-06-2000 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for killercoyote   Click Here to Email killercoyote     Edit/Delete Message  70928569   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Billy Gaze:
Just had a thought, maybe Xander's dream was the worst possible case scenario.

We know that Xander has been holding a candle for Buffy ever since he first set eyes on her. The worst possible thing that could happen that could happen is for her to think of him as a brother (guys, back me up on this one).

The ice cream van thing is probably a reference to the sort of job he fears he may end up doing.

Tie all this in with the appearance of his father and it all add up to Xander's worst fears about his own life and insecurity.

Anyway, it's probably all rubbish anyway!!!


Consider yourself backed!

This makes alot more sense than my delusional rantings, and is plausible too. We know how insecure Xander is about his life and direction from the way he reacted to Spike's taunting about joining the army in, the 'Yoko Factor'.

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Alex
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posted 02-06-2000 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Alex   Click Here to Email Alex     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
DJ Billy, I think you've got it!

That explanation ties in perfectly with Xander talking about life being a "journey" and needing to "catch up" with his friends but every time he goes somewhere he finds himself back in the basement - he's afraid he'll never be able to move on from where he is now.

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Whistler
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posted 02-06-2000 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Whistler   Click Here to Email Whistler     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Eat your heart out, Sigmund Freud!

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AxB
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posted 02-06-2000 10:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AxB   Click Here to Email AxB     Edit/Delete Message  67978031   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Billy Gaze:
The ice cream van thing is probably a reference to the sort of job he fears he may end up doing.

It's a job he's already had isn't it?

And about the Big Brother thing, it could have some sort of connection to the way Buffy and Faith were making a bed for a 'little sister' in Faith's dream a few eps back.

And in Angel tonight Angel told a medical fellow that he was part of Cordy's family... it's a whole family values gone crazy deal.

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DJ Billy Gaze
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posted 03-06-2000 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DJ Billy Gaze   Click Here to Email DJ Billy Gaze     Edit/Delete Message  72498361   Reply w/Quote
OK

Buffy in the sandpit, and Xander keeps on telling her it's too big, but Buffy syas she can handle it (or something to that effect). That might be a metaphor for the way Buffy has been more determined to fight alone in the last series despite the numerous offers of help she's had from Xander (although that all changed in'Primevil')

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StuStuStu
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posted 03-06-2000 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for StuStuStu   Click Here to Email StuStuStu     Edit/Delete Message  11315396   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Billy Gaze:
Buffy in the sandpit, and Xander keeps on telling her it's too big, but Buffy syas she can handle it

*snigger*

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Baby ate my dingo
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posted 03-06-2000 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Baby ate my dingo     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Er ... I don't think old Alexander Harris and miss B. Anne Summers are related somehow . That would mean almost Incest in Xanders dream which is like ... mingin' .
(Im tired . My often prolific vocabulary is going down the john)

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Leababe16
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posted 03-06-2000 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leababe16     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by StuStuStu:
*snigger*

Stu, u r sick! Consider your self reprimanded!

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Leababe16
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posted 03-06-2000 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leababe16     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leababe16:
Stu, u r sick! Consider your self reprimanded!



In the nices possible way of course stu... please don't cancel my account????

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Missmalkin
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posted 03-06-2000 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Missmalkin   Click Here to Email Missmalkin     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
DJ Billy thanks for your interesting speculation.
The First Slayer wants to destroy the heart card ie Xander, so would be undermining Xanders heart in various ways.

However, the Big Brother thing
The begining of the scene Xander says I didn't order Vampires - thats not the way out, then we get the swing scene, he answers Spike and says I was into that once now he's looking to move forward - like a Shark.
That could mean he no longer any hopes of becoming a Watcher but intends to move on. His look to Buffy is perhaps just an acknowledgement of their special relationship now. The Ice cream van moves on away from the watchers scene and Anya asks him do you know where you are going? then we get the discussion about being into Vengence and societies limitations on what we can and cannot do.

Xanders life is dominated to a great part by sex and sexual desire so he goes back to the girls but that route only leads back to the basement.

Later we get Xander being dragged off to the army, he faces Snyder who as the army only see Xander as multch ie a sacifical material. College scene with Anya and Giles both speaking in a way that Xander can't understand. Though it is information that will save his life he can't hear it.
College and Army seem to be not the route for Xander either, or life with Anya and definately not the way of his father.
What you think???
I keep making up my mind about stuff then having to change it....


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DJ Billy Gaze
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posted 05-06-2000 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DJ Billy Gaze   Click Here to Email DJ Billy Gaze     Edit/Delete Message  72498361   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Billy Gaze:
OK

Buffy in the sandpit, and Xander keeps on telling her it's too big, but Buffy syas she can handle it


Hmm, I really should have read through this before I posted it! That'll teach me to try and be profound. Maybe I'll just stick to Nice Ass in the future ( Waiting for Stu's comment about that last line!! )

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Stake
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posted 06-06-2000 09:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Stake   Click Here to Email Stake     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baby ate my dingo:
Er ... I don't think old Alexander Harris and miss B. Anne Summers are related somehow . That would mean almost Incest in Xanders dream which is like ... mingin' .
(Im tired . My often prolific vocabulary is going down the john)

Yea but luke skywalker had a crush on princess layah ,he even kissed her and they found out they were bro and sis. O.k lame example but it's the best I could come up with right now.

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Leababe16
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posted 07-06-2000 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leababe16     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
well......I think it'd make it too dodgy for Xander and the Buffster to be related, nevermind completely out there ( like dating a vampire, but nevermind)

Especially after bewitched bothered and bewildered!!!!!!!!!!

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