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Author Topic:   Buffy and Xander:has anyone noticed the weirdness
Xsandman
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posted 24-05-2000 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xsandman   Click Here to Email Xsandman     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
I have just been considering series three and wondering whats happened to Buffy and Xander's friendship. Where was Xander when Buff and Will went to the Bronze(Band Candy). In the past they would all have gone together. They were best buddies in the first two series. Now there's a heavy emphasis on Willow being Buffy's bestest best friend(Dead mans party) and B+X have hardly spent anytime together.

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Space Duck
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posted 24-05-2000 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Space Duck   Click Here to Email Space Duck     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xsandman:
Where was Xander when Buff and Will went to the Bronze(Band Candy). In the past they would all have gone together.

He was prolly in a closet with Cordy :P Xander has his eye on the women now so he's bound ta go where he can get some :P

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Solitaire
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posted 24-05-2000 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Solitaire     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Yeah it seems like they've drifted apart... I'm sure it'll all be fine though. I think Xander's still bitter about Buffy running off and also he's got his relationship with Willow to worry about too.

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Missmalkin
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posted 24-05-2000 08:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Missmalkin   Click Here to Email Missmalkin     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Xsandman: good point and a sad one.
I wonder did Buffy find out about Xander not telling her about the soul spell Willow was trying in Becoming 2, that would explain the distance. Though I can't remember it ever coming up. Angel has got to be a major reason or at least Xanders attitude towards Angel. Perhaps its just that as Buffy got to know Willow better she could discuss more with her than Xander, be closer and of course as Willow and Xander don't hang around each other so much - because of Oz and Cordelia they just don't meet up.

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Scully
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posted 24-05-2000 11:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Scully   Click Here to Email Scully     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
I think you're right that it has something to do with Angel. I think Xander feels guilty about not warning Buffy about the spell (even though he doesn't know it worked) and so keeps his distance. Did you notice that when buffy fessed up about the spell having worked, only Willow and Giles were there thereby suggesting that they're the two characters she is closest to?

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DJ Billy Gaze
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posted 25-05-2000 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DJ Billy Gaze   Click Here to Email DJ Billy Gaze     Edit/Delete Message  72498361   Reply w/Quote
Xander just thinks he has the moral high ground and is rubbing it in. I don't think it's as much his jealousy of Angel, more his jealousy of Buffy and her powers.

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Xsandman
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posted 25-05-2000 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xsandman   Click Here to Email Xsandman     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
I agree with 'Solitaire', it's the whole running away thing that has split them not her being able to talk to Willow more. Right up to Becoming P1 they were very close, Xander was even patrolling with Buffy. They haven't had a proper reconciliation(Deep and meaninful) from the big fight in 'Dead man's party' yet. Hope it will be fine as you say 'Solitaire'. I miss the three musketeers/stooges. Buffy needs Xander nearby because he's usually the one who saves her life!!!!!!!

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Vox
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posted 25-05-2000 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vox   Click Here to Email Vox     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xsandman:
Right up to Becoming P1 they were very close, Xander was even patrolling with Buffy.

The Buffy/Xander subtext was pretty evident in the second half of season 2. You can see it in 'Phases' and 'BBB' and a couple of others.


For him, she was the one he could talk to about his bizarre relationship with Cordelia (remember Willow's reaction when she found out?). For her, I think he'd always been the sort of 'maybe... if Angel hadn't existed'. A good man, who'd stayed true to her and shared the difficulties of her life. And, no doubt, there was the element of her rebounding from Angelus.

Cordelia's attraction to him probably boosted Xander in Buffy's opinion as well. One of the things that make men attractive to women is having other women interested in them. Willow's long-standing crush wouldn't have been sufficient, but Cordelia (in the dating stakes at least) is far more on Buffy's social level. No doubt Harmony and the rest of the Cordettes took a moment to re-evaluate Xander after they found out. And Buffy would have discovered a different side to Xander in their conversations about his relationship, he would have displayed a more thoughtful, considerate side which might have endeared him to her still further. So, back in s2 the whole B/X thing wasn't too out of this world, but since then events have moved to put it, and their friendship, out of the picture.

Buffy left without a word, Xander might feel the loss most keenly as he was the last one to see her, and left her fighting Angelus.

Xander and Cordelia got more serious over the summer.

Angel's returned, and Buffy's kept him a secret so she can't talk about him and he's refocused her attention on the B/A ship.

Xander's started having 'flukes' with Willow, something he can't discuss with Buffy.

And, as has been pointed out, they've never really resolved their DMP argument. Slaying might have brought them together in adversity but, as there's been no resolution, both sides have got to feel that the other hasn't appreciated their opinion.

And, I'm afraid to say, that I can't see it getting any better. Whatever the fallout will be of the Angel and the W/X secrets, I can't imagine that it could help the two of them patch things up.

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killercoyote
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posted 25-05-2000 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for killercoyote   Click Here to Email killercoyote     Edit/Delete Message  70928569   Reply w/Quote
There have been some great points brought up on this subject, some of which I even agree with. It's sad, but it's what happens with friends...nothing lasts forever. Remember, Xander has Cordelia, Willow has Oz, whereas before, they just had each other, hence the close friendship. But I don't think that the split will get too pronounced, I sure hope not...

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Mr_Gimp
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posted 26-05-2000 01:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr_Gimp   Click Here to Email Mr_Gimp     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
... and it looked like it could only get worse during the first half-hour of "Revelations", but then maybe the start of a reconciliation at the end ?

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The Jockster
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posted 26-05-2000 01:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Jockster   Click Here to Email The Jockster     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
The group is more fragmented than it used to be, because of the way relationships have developed. By the end of Series 1, The gang had jumped from four to six (Cordy's entry in "Out of Mind...", and the "How come she's in the club?" whine of Willow's about Jenny in "Prophecy Girl"). (Angel isn't really part of the gang, more an ally. Remember, it was due to Giles and Xander that he was in the episode at all!)

So, we had our three amigos, our brainy englishman, his love interest, and the vamp-bait. A perfect team. So, what happened?

Xander has not had an easy time of it. Of his two childhood friends, he had to "kill" one of them. Bear in mind that he was sixteen at the time, and that's going to cause a few problems, to say the least. Imagine having to kill your best buddy, and you start to realise that there's a lot going on inside Xander. Maybe it wasn't just the Hyena talking when he asked Willow, "Wasn't it all much simpler before Buffy arrived?" (paraphrase).

He gets a crush on a teacher at school, who turns out to be a big bug and nearly kills him. He gets posessed be a hyena, hurts his best friend, and tries to jump Buffy (getting nothing more than a clip round the ear with a desk for his troubles!)

He finds that the girl he's really interested in is going out with an older man, and is therefore off the market. It then transpires that said older man is, in fact, one of the creatures that forced him to kill Jesse. Here now is a figure that he wasn't too keen on anyway, onto whom he can project all of the anger and hatred that he feels towards vampires in general.

When it turns out that Angel is a "goodie", he has to rein in this hatred, but his suspicion of Angel never goes away.

Finally, he works up the courage to ask Buffy out, and is rejected almost out of hand. Given the sort of person he is, he will have got used to rejection. But with Buffy, having become friends first will have reborn the seed of hope in his heart, allowing it to be bruised as if it were the first rejection. Even at this stage, the skids are under the group dynamic.

Then, enter Cordelia. This is a relationship that he knows he can't discuss with either Willow (joint chairman of the "We Hate Cordelia Club") or Buffy (would-be ex). In fact, it's just the sort of thing he could only talk to another guy with - oh, yes, but Jesse's dead, isn't he?

Next, Willow starts going out with Oz. That will have caused him to re-examine Willow in a new light. Up until this point, he'd probably not appreciated that she wouldn't always be there. (Ok, this idea would have taken a beating back in Prophecy Girl, but it wouldn't have died totally).

When the news about him and Cordy "hit the streets", as 'twere, he found he was getting the guy-type of teasing from Buffy, who he still cared a great deal for - pretty much playing the Sidney Carton to her Mary d'Evremant (Tale of Two Cities - I may have goofed on the names a little, but you know who I mean - the bloke who does the "far, far better thing" to save the husband of the girl he loves.)
However, the relationship with Willow was damged severely. This being the last of his "long-term friends", this will be the friendship that is closest to his heart, that he would work hardest to sort out.

When Angelus kills Jenny, all the hatred he had laid on Angel for being a vampire crystalises, and becomes personal. He no longer hates Angel for what he is. He hates Angel for WHO he is.

Then, Becoming Part 1 rolls around. Willow is critically injured. He himself was hurt in the fight. As he sat in the hospital, prior to Buffy's arrival, he would have been reanalysing life, probably with a clarity he had never before managed. It is significant that when Buffy fires off the quip, Xander, jovial Xander who always has a joke for everything, Xander is the one who has to be the sober one.
His soliloquy by Willow's bedside is possibly the most tender and bittersweet moments of the series. The sudden realisation that, deep down, he loves Willow, followed immediately by her waking with the name "Oz" on her lips, would take him from a moment of clarity to crushing despair in an instant. In that moment he would realise that, while Willow was the closest and dearest friend he had, he no longer occupied that position in her life.

So he struggles through. With the departure of Cordelia over the summer, and Buffy's disappearing act, it fell to him, Giles, Oz and Willow to keep the vampire threat at bay. Giles was constantly chasing up leads, so it was down to the kids again. Suddenly, the group is down to three people - at the heart of it this time is Willow. It would be during this summer that the castors were placed under his relationship with Cordelia. That the lady of his heart is no longer Buffy is made plain in "Dead Man's Party" - when Willow and Buffy are arguing, he leaps to Willow's defence, ordering Buffy to "Let her finish! You owe her that much!" Buffy's running off hurt all of them, but it hurt him more, because it hurt both him and Willow.

Since her return, there hasn't really been the opportunity to spend "quality time" as the three of them, or even just Buffy and Xander. What with him spending time with Cordy, and Buffy trying to split her time between school, home, Giles, Scott and Angel, it's no wonder the wounds have not begun to heal yet. But now that she can be open with the group (although how she tells her mother that her ex-honey is back in town is another thing entirely!) there is a chance that some ground can be made up, as Mr Gimp states. However, I seriously doubt that Buffy and Xander will ever be as close as they were in the first series. And CERTAINLY nowhere near "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" !

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The Master
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posted 28-05-2000 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Master   Click Here to Email The Master     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
I think xander is still jealous of buffy and angel, and if it wasn't for angel maybe he would have a chance with her.
Also xander has now got more problems with willow so he hasn't really got time for buffy.

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Mr_Gimp
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posted 29-05-2000 02:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mr_Gimp   Click Here to Email Mr_Gimp     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Wow... talk about in depth character analysis. Nice one Jockster

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Sweet
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posted 29-05-2000 06:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sweet   Click Here to Email Sweet     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Yeah...Wow!!! (wish I could do that)

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Malcolm Black
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posted 30-05-2000 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Malcolm Black   Click Here to Email Malcolm Black     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote
Does no-one else find the "coming together again after a big demon fight" syndrome a bit annoying?

DMP is a prime example and a lot of characters are prevented from saying a lot to each other because a vampire conveniently arrives when they're about to resolve issues (Willow in "Revelations", Xander in the teaser to "DMP"). It's like the writers are stretching the limits of credibility....the bad guy's timing is always spot on and so frayed relationships drag on throughout the whole series. Very frustrating..

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