[Tink Interview of Den and ch'od - 08.05.94]
[Editor's note: 'You' refers to ch'od, since he logged this via tinyfugue]

You say, "oops"
You say, "okay, as of now, I'm logging"
Den says, "umm no, I havn't started yet."
Tink says, "naaw, don't worry...."
Den is waiting to hear from the uni.
Tink says, "ch'od, you have theh file capture set?"
You say, "I just started"
Tink says, "ok so this move is a very recent choice.."
Den says, "within the last year or so, yes."
You say, "when do you work, den?"
Tink says, "and how long back does your computer experience go? ch'od, you can 
answer these same questions for me..."
Den says, "5"
You say, "okay, I'm not in architecture yet"
Tink says, "how did you get involved on Mu*s?"
Tink says, "so ch'od (*laughs*) what are you in?"
Den laughs!
You say, "i've played with computers since forever.  my first computer was a 
Radio shack TRS-80, the original trash"
Tink says, "and is WACKO a MUD/MUCK/MUSH?"
Den 's was a Commodore 64. whoo whee
You say, "that way back when I lived in canada.  maybe 3rd grade"
Den says, "Wacko is a MUCK"
Tink says, "i remember both models of computer"
You say, "I'm still in computer science.  I think computer science is a very 
brutal major, and requires a lot of stubbornness to make it through."
Tink says, "so you're originally from canada...and, aside from MIT, where are 
you from now?"
Tink says, "yes, you're prolly right about the comp.sci bit"
You say, "I'm not at mit, I'm at stony Brook, NY"
Tink says, "ok...and where do you attend school?"
You say, "Den & I started mucks together.  we started with IRC, but thought IRC 
was way lame"
Tink says, "why do you dislike the IRC system?"
Tink says, "and how did the two of you meet up?"
Tink says, "what makes the MUCK, IYO, a better system than IRC?"
You say, "it's like how mucks get when they get large and kludgy.  zillions of 
people, most of which won't talk to you.  in my opinion."
You say, "I'm sure irc is fun once you break into a 'clique', or such.  but 
until then, it's annoying."
Tink says, "and you find that cliquing on IRC is a bit difficult,....how so?"
Den nods.
Den says, "lots of 1 person sitting on 1 channel stuff on irc."
Den says, "oh, it sometimes happens with M*s also, but not really on the same 
systems."
You say, "it's like, several times, I go onto channels and say hi"
Den says, "an entire 'clan' will stick together on a single game."
You say, "and everyone totally ignores me"
Tink says, "well, i'm able to folow the conversation, but if you wouldlike to do 
this so it looks a bit more organzied, that's fine."
Den says, "IRC is Inter Relay Chat."
Tink nods in understanding to ch'od and den
Den thinks we're talking at the same time makes it sort of confusing.
Tink says, "describe the differences to me between IRC and a MUCK...their 
activity"
Den says, "essentially what you do, is connect, pick a 'nickname' and you have a 
list"
Den says, "of channels you can go to, or you can create your own."
You say, "I think it'll go faster if we interweive conversations like this"
Den says, "if you connect to a channel, there are usually people talking 
there.""and that's what you do, you talk."
Tink says, "ok..mmmhmmm"
Den says, "all this is temporary, as soon as you leave, it vanishes."
Tink says, "no characterization, etc., like on a MUCK/MUD, etc."
You say, "nope.  actually, IRC has come a long way since then"
Tink says, "and what do you think of  IRC in its current state?"
Tink says, "so a major difference between the dtwo is the permanence, 
repetitiveness"
*[Superdelicious has connected]*
Den says, "well, I suppose you could, but as far as I know, (from the last time 
I tried IRC) you can't have 'descriptions' or create permanent things."
Den says, "in terms of characters."
Tink nods
You say, "you still can't, it's basically the same, I think.  but it's cheesier"
You say, "for example, you can ftp through irc"
Den says, "oh?"
You say, "WOW"
Den didn't know that.
You say, "and they also have a 'pose' like thing"
Den says, "do they?"
You say, "similar to mucks' pose.  but it looks so...... dumb,kind of."
Tink says, "now, ...*smiles* we're learning all kinds of things today"
You say, "because on irc, you don't really think of it as you do on mucks, 
everyone just being people"
Tink says, "i understand...no evolved personalities, etc."
You say, "it's more like everyone talking on cb radios, on the same channel"
You say, "right.  no descriptions, rooms, or objects"
Den says, "the difference might be analgous to talking via telegraph, vs, 
videophone."
Den says, "telegraph might be a little harsh ;)"
You say, "yeah, that's being a bit generous.  ;)"
Tink says, "returning the conversation back to WACKO itself, how did the two of 
you meet up and decide to get involved in creating/sustaining WACKO"
You say, "Den & I were next door neighbors"
Tink says, "where?"
You say, "in the dorms"
Den says, "in the dorms, at the UofI."
You say, "at Shampoo"
Den says, "Banana."
Tink says, "at what school..."
*[guest has connected]*
You say, "er, Champaign-urbana"
Den says, "University of Illinois."
Tink graoans, b/c you're both Illini
*[guest has connected]*
You say, "raar"

[ch'od does a WHO]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
11  guest(#3147)              [   100]    00:00   5s reed.edu
10  guest(#3147)              [   100]    00:00  21s reed.edu
The scrungy factor is 10.   Not-down time: 1d 00:57

Den says, "whee. fun."
You say, "reed.edu?"
ch'od buh
Tink 's a Hawkey grad
gotta love Iowa City
Den says, "there's a guest from reed.edu"
***** guest doesn't know anything *****
You say, "Den & I happened to just be talking about mucks one day"
Den says, "yea, IC, man, the ped mall, the place to be."
Den winks.
Tink grins
You say, "there's this nifty place that you can just go and talk & eat.  a 
really nice environment for just talking"
Tink says, "we'll talk about IC another day..i'd love it!"
You say, "and we just happened to start discussing what we liked and didn't like 
about mucks"
Den says, "this was what, 2 2.5 years ago, I'd say."
You say, "big time"
Tink says, "ok....so this led to discussing actually creating one."
*[ooky has connected]*
***** guest doesn't know anything *****
***** guest doesn't know anything *****
Den says, "yes, but at the beginning, it was mostly just hopes, and we didn't 
imagine that we would actually find a site."
*[guest has disconnected]*
You say, "right.  finding muck sites is next to impossible"
***** guest doesn't know anything *****
Tink says, "how did you actuall go about finding the site, then?"
***** ooky doesn't know anything *****
***** ooky doesn't know anything *****
***** ooky doesn't know anything *****
You say, "Blind luck"
Tink says, "explain"
You say, "Basically a series of very lucky coincidences"
Den nods.
Tink says, "care to elucidate?"
Den points at ch'od.
ch'od  :P
You say, "okay"
*[guest has disconnected]*
You say, "okay, I thought I found a site"
Tink sits and listens
Tink nods
You say, "but it was a pretty screwed up site.  no good."
You say, "well, it just so  happens that they connected ethernet cables to 
byte's doorm at MIT"
Tink says, "ok, faulty....then,..."
Tink says, "so byte's somewhat involved in this as well...why isn't he a wiz 
then?"
You say, "and, byte happens to notice this SUN IPX lying on the floor, under a 
desk"
Den says, "where he works."
You say, "byte wouldn't be a wiz if you paid him."
Tink says, "ok..will have to talk to byte about that"
You say, "so, he asks if he can borrow it, and the manager thinks about it, and 
says, what the heck."
Tink says, "how did you run into byte?"
Den says, "that also has something to do with things we discussed when we 
originally wanted to run our own MUCK."
Den says, "about making people wizzes."
You say, "to be extremely concise and blunt, being a wizard is a pain in the 
ass."
Tink says, "yes, and what issues did you discuss?...talk to me a bit about being 
wizzes"
Den says, "well. hey, hi superD"
You say, "okay, den, do the issues, I'll talk about being a wiz"
You say, "yay."
Tink says, "Hi, SD...i'm interviewing these two"
You say, "pipelining"
Tink smils
You say, "um, well, if you're a wizard, you just have to deal with a ton of 
things"
Den says, "issues: we wanted the wizards, (there were originally 3 of us - sort 
of ) to agree on most everything we had in mind."
Tink says, "ie....list.list.list"
You say, "okay, okay."
You say, "for example, this newsweek thing."
Den says, "issues: so it was best if we could all know eachother fairly well 
beforehand, so we really dind't want to bring in someone from the outside.. "
You say, "normally, players don't worry about this kind of stuff, the wizards 
have to ."
Tink says, "ok...but isn't this newsweek thing a bit out of the ordinary"
Den says, "issues: byte is great, but our ideas on how to run the game might not 
be quite the same, so we'd have a problem there."
You say, "it really depends on how many rules you have.  the wizards have to 
make sure they're enforced, and if someone is a trouble maker you hae to deal 
with them."
Den says, "issues: actually, originally we didn't want to have any wizards at 
all, we would have the #1 character (the 'God' character) be the only wizard, 
and he would take care of all of the problems."
You say, "newsweek is just an extreme case of something else - unwanted 
publicity"
Tink says, "what kinds of rulse have you set for WACKO?....and have you had much 
troublemakers...."
You say, "the two worst things that a wizard has to deal with:"
You say, "#1 - troiublemakers, #2 - wizard fights"
Den says, "issues: The rest would be handled by a player council, made up of a 
percentage of the # of players currently in the db.  They would be elected by 
vote byte the players, and the Wiz, (me, ch'od or Icarus (who has long since 
vanished)) would handle any problems that they council couldn't work out."
Tink says, "and why did you make the change from the God=char (who would that 
have been?) to the wiz set up?"
Den says, "well the #1 character is generally referred to as 'god,' since no 
other character can do anything to it, Wizard or otherwise."
Tink says, "have you had many problems with either scenario, #1 or #2?"
You say, "luckily, no."
Tink says, "yes, i realize that about gods....so why the change?...and who 
would've been god?"
You say, "we've solved #2 by deciding to never have any wizards except for Den & 
I."
Tink says, "good about avoiding the problems...so you and Den get along pretty 
well *laughs b/c she's put ch'od on the spot*"
Den says, "the god character would be accessable by both (or all three) of us."
You say, "yeah, it works out well.  Den & I are old friends."
Den says, "well, forget icarus, actually, he's really not important, (in 
refernce to wacko, anyway)"
Tink says, "i see, den....ok, so what happened that this didn't work and you 
made the change over..."
You say, "actually, originally we were going to have a 3rd wizard, icarus"
Den laughs
Tink says, "i see..what happened to ic?"
You say, "but we haven't been in touch with him in forever"
Den says, "yay, contridiction."
You say, "actually, I regret to say that I'm glad, because he's not as easy to 
get to fight for what he things is right"
You say, "kind of."
Tink says, "who is this  person?"
You say, "another old friend, who introduced us to mucking"
Den says, "he actually, was the person who introduced us to our first MUCK."
ch'od laughs.
You say, "Actually, I confess, Den & I are actually the same person, cloned."
ch'od sticks his head in a xerox machine
Tink says, "ah...i was going to aske you about that....how long ago was that and 
which one?...how many have you been involved with?..."
*[ooky has disconnected]*
Tink laughs, because she'd sort of figured that much about the two of them 
anyway
Den says, "BUHAHAHAH"
You say, "I've almost always just been a one muck man"
Den says, "ok, sometime In fall of 1990."
Tink says, "awwww...what heroic dedication"
Tink laughs again
Den says, "we found this place called Pegasus."
Den says, "via Icarus."
Den says, "I've been on lots of different games, but Pegasus was what you might 
say is my 'home muck'"
Tink says, "hences, the connection with the name of his character....and the 
theming behind Pegasus?"
You say, "er, what?"
You say, "name of who's character?"
Tink says, "Pegasus and Icarus sort of go together...greek mythology and all"
You say, "oh?"
You say, "I didn't know that"
Den isn't sure why he was Icarus.
ch'od  :P
You say, "Well, what do I know, I'm just a wizard"
Tink laughs
Den says, "but he was Icarus everywhere, so it's hard to say if that's the 
reason he chose the name."
Tink says, "hold a sec"
Den nods.
Tink says, "nevermind..was just my roomie's phone..."
ch'od sticks his head out Tink's screen and yells, "No, she's WORKING, honest!"
Tink  :P, ch'od
You say, "anyway, yeah, I tried a couple of mucks, actually"
You say, "but I found peg, and I was instantly at home"
Tink says, "what mage peg so attractive as a muck?"
Den says, "umm.."
You say, "The people, I guess"
You say, "very friendly place"
Tink says, "ah..."
Den says, "they had really great people.."
Tink nods in understanding....is why WACKO exists
Tink says, "so why branch away from Peg and start this one?"
You say, "and you could pretty much do whatever you wanted"
You say, "Peg kept dying and getting resurrected"
You say, "and each resurrection was worse than the last one"
Tink says, "problems with the system?"
Den says, "a lot of the others at the time.. were huge, (islandia, 78,000 
objects) or clique-ish."
You say, "yes, but the system of the muck's managements, not the computer 
system"
Den nods.
Tink says, "is there a tendencey to get lost, so to speak, on a muck that 
large?..."
Tink says, "and why was the mgmt. of Peg having such a time of it?"
Den says, "yea, and when they get that huge, people begin to be hard to find."
You say, "big time.  large mucks tend to have screwed up building.  it's just 
too hard to keep quality control on that level without heavy restraints"
Den says, "a lot of wizard fighting.."
You say, "oh, I didn't mention this before,"
Den says, "control freaks."
Tink says, "and you....go ahead, bother of you..."
Tink aughs
Tink says, "both of you, that is.."
You say, "but the main reason being a wizard sucks, is that when you're wizard, 
you tend to worry about the condition of the muck, naturally"
Den says, "so huge mucks end up falling into the 'clique-trap'"
You say, "and when things get more out of hand, you tend to spend more and more 
time trying to keep quality control"
Tink says, "well, of course...and what are the general roles sof being a 
wiz...the kind of up-keep, etc?"
You say, "and what almost inevitably happens is that wizards start spending more 
time trying to keep control than spend time having fun"
You say, "and so wizards tend to become real jerks, because they get so upset at 
everyone who is keeping them from having fun."
Den says, "then they get cranky."
Den says, "yea, what he said."
Den points up.
You say, "and they isolate themselves, or snap at people or such."
You say, "pretty annoying stuff."
You say, "In fact, when we designed wacko, we decided we won't do a single thing 
except have fun"
ch'od grins
Tink says, "so the fact that the wizzes need to get along *was* very imp. for 
the dcreation of WACKO"
Tink grins, because the two of them are two of the craziest people in this place
Den says, "yea, the way we wanted to run it."
ch'od grins
You say, "yeah.  actually, this place wasn't even called 'wacko' it was called 
'happymuck'"
Den says, "actually, pegasus was probably the 'black sheep' of the M* world when 
it was at it's prime."
Tink says, "so, tell me what you like about your setup (yes, i reaad in the 
log...thanks for that!)"
Den says, "everyone hated it."
Den says, "except for the people on peg."
Den laughs.
You say, "yeah,e veryone hated peg for some reason.  people on peg loved it, 
people who didn't hated it.  strange stuf"
Tink says, "why did people dislike Peg from the outside?"
You say, "I think peg was too sickeningly social for them"
Tink says, "some muck---yes, ws just going to say something to that efffect"
You say, "like, they'd get on,and then dozen's of people would jump up and say 
"hi there!  hi there!  hi there!"  and they'd run for their life"
Tink says, "my roomie's on a mush called "two moons"---very structured..."
You say, "structhing is nice for control and long lasting mucks."
You say, "it's a real pain in the rear for the wizards, who have to make sure 
it's structured"
Tink says, "ok...yes, i would have to agree, knowing the atmosphere on that 
particular mush"
You say, "anyway, I expected wacko to self destruct in a month"
Tink says, "why did you expect wacko to  fail?"
You say, "Because there were no restraints.  anything goes."
Den says, "structuring also ends up making lots of rules, and restraints."
Tink says, "ah...and what do you think prevented the faillure from occurring?"
Den says, "you have to pass a test to get a builder bit."
Den says, "you have a quota of objects you can build."
You say, "To be honest tink, I wonder that very same question all the time."
Den says, "you have to follow a building 'theme'"
Den says, "stuff like that."
Den says, "it looks nice."
Tink nods...
You say, "I think the main reason might be that nobody has tried to disrupt the 
system yet"
You say, "i.e. we haven't had a malicious person on"
Tink says, "and do you think  there's a danger of that?..."
You say, "Big time.  it's a threat that could happen any day, any time."
*[gumbi has connected]*
Tink says, "is that part of the reaason why you're hesitant about publicity?"
You say, "For me, yes.  I don't know what den's thoughts are on these"
Den says, "oh well."
Den says, "umm.."
Den says, "I sort of worry about it."
You say, "I worry way too much"
Den says, "It could be really annoying, but I try not to let it bother me."
*[Cockroach has connected]*
Den says, "else it takes away from my fun :)"
Tink says, "and describe this worry (she becomes a psychoanalyst)...no, 
seriously..."
You say, "right, exactly"
*[Cockroach has disconnected]*
You say, "it's just annoying.  it disrupts the nice system wacko has."
Den says, "I really don't think I WANT a big muck."
Den shrugs.
Den says, "it's hard to say."
Tink says, "that's what i started to ask you...what kinds of things do you like 
about WACKO?"
You say, "I have yet to see a big muck that I would be happy if wacko turned 
into it"
You say, "it's very social"
You say, "you can ask anyone for help, and they'll probably try to help you"
You say, "unless you're tails."
ch'od smiles sweetly
Tink grins in understanding
Tink says, "what else?"
Message sent to sharia.
You say, "something that -I- appreciate a lot is the player's dedication to 
wacko"
You say, "make that  players'"
Tink says, "how so?..."
Den says, "it's hard to put into words, I think."
Den says, "this is a problem that we do have.. sometimes."
Tink says, "well, do your best"
Den says, "with wacko."
You say, "well, for example.  We make it very very clear that you can do 
anything you want,no questions asked"
Tink says, "yes...continue..."
You say, "but people still ask me if they can do things all the time."
Den says, "we can't seem to define things that we don't like into rules that 
apply all the time."
You say, "not because they have to, but because they want to make sure that it 
keeps wacko the way we want it"
You say, "stuff like that."
Tink says, "i understand..."
You say, "once, during one of our infestations, we almost gave up on wacko 
altoegether"
You say, "and we were going to shut it down"
Tink says, "why is that?...what happened, when?"
You say, "During the nails infestation"
You say, "the first, and the worst"
Tink says, "describe"
*[Peanut has disconnected]*
Den grins.
Tink says, "what is the nails infestation?"
You say, "okay, someone from Kindergarten muck points in our direction.  about a 
zillion boofoologi run in our direction and get on here and cry"
You say, "well, that's in ch'odspeak"
Tink says, "ok, tell me in *normal* language *grin*"
You say, "oh"
ch'od hee hee
You say, "Someone on NAILS liked this muck"
Den laughs
Tink says, "aand Nails is another muck"
You say, "yeah"
You say, "but they're really munged"
You say, "you can't build"
You say, "it's more MUD than Muck"
Tink says, "clarify munged"
Den says, "ok, here"
You say, "So.  he posts an advertisement for here"
Bono is speechless.
NAILS stats:
Rooms   : ( 5%) 195     Exits   : ( 4%) 158
Things  : ( 2%) 100     Programs: ( 1%)  71
Players : (79%)2856     Garbage : ( 5%) 195
Total:  3575
Springsteen songs that mention Cadillacs: (79%)  94
Uptime: 8d 19:11        Up since: Mon Jul 25 21:03:44 1994
You say, "and next thing you know, they're all coming here."
Den says, "check out those stats."
Den says, "2856 players."
Den says, "195 rooms?"
You say, "and when Nails crashes, they all run on"
Den says, "158 exits??"
Tink says, "so...what did that cause?"
You say, "and they're runing around, bickering, and saying, "This isn't NAILS" 
and acting like general idiots"
You say, "and annoying everyone and everything"
You say, "not to mention building a LOT of JUNK"
You say, "I'd say half of it was screwups, not even normal building."
Tink says, "and that caused you to think about shutting down wakco..."
ch'od types @dig room.  Gee, where is it?  I better @dig 100 more rooms and see 
what happens
Den says, "NAILS doesn't allow people to build."
Den says, "it's a 'combat' game."
Den says, "sort of."
You say, "Because, I felt like we completely lost control"
Den says, "'combat' and 'talk'"
Tink says, "ah....created many problems here, i would imagine....a bit hostile, 
were they?"
Den says, "that's why the stats for Nails is so WRONG."
Den says, "well, not all of them."
You say, "The muck was a mess.  we had all these idiotic players."
Tink says, "so what did you do to fix things/"
Den says, "but a lot of them were just sort of rude, and they didn't know how to 
do anything, and we were swamped with people asking us ALL the TIME to do 
something for them, without thinking it through for themselves first."
You say, "Amazingly enough, we didn't do anything."
You say, "they got tired of us not being NAILS, and eventually, almost all of 
then left"
Tink says, "so what happend...are any of them still here?"
You say, "Not all Nails people were bad, the same way that not all Disney people 
came here just for Disney"
You say, "In fact, i'd even say that some of my favorite people here are disney 
people"
You say, "er, Nails people"
You say, "disney people too, though"
Den says, "Bing is Nails, yes?"
Tink says, "ah...ok, then...let's talk about that...it was really fascinating 
(*gee, thanks* *grin*)"
You say, "Bing is nails."
Den says, "c0dem0d0?"
You say, "c0dem0d0 is nails, yeah."
You say, "so is um, Mikelaga. Elena"
You say, "Minh, Fabrice"
Den nods.
You say, "anyway.  I'm glad the nails thing happened."
You say, "kinda"
ch'od :P
Tink says, "was really fascinating for me to read thelog and see what happened 
w/ MG back in April...the way it sounded on r.a.d., things were ok for us to 
come over to WACKO...but evidently thigns were different...tell me about it..."
You say, "yeah, that was pretty bizarre."
Tink says, "(and why are you happy the Nails thing happened?)"
You say, "because even though it was hell, after it was over, Wacko was a better 
place to be."
Tink says, "ok...how so?"
You say, "Because we gained a number of cool people through it, that we wouldn't 
have met, otherwise"
Den says, "not to mention we learned a lot ourselves, about how to deal with 
that sort of thing."
Den says, "initially we just went crazy."
Den says, "and that was when we had or initial 'wiz-spaz'"
Den says, "yay."
You say, "Yeah, definitely.  If not for nails, I think I would've spazzed out a 
lot more over this disney thing"
You say, "It's important to understand how easily one bad apple can cause hell  
on wacko"
You say, "now, if we see new apples coming in every now and then"
You say, "then they get shined, and they get used to how this place works, and 
all is well.  "
You say, "especially if people tend to only bring in 'good apples' so to speak"
You say, "But the nails, disney, delphi, newsweek, and so to be serb thing -"
*[Nakor has connected]*
You say, "it's like someone said, hey, check this out!" and they throw barrels 
of apples in our direction"
*[Nakor has disconnected]*
Tink says, "i understand....so, start back on the arrival of r.a.d.....were you 
using the usenet, reading r.a.d. before MG showed up?"
*[sharia has connected]*
You say, "btw, that was probably the stupidest analogy I've ever made up in my 
entire life"
Den wasn't.
Den says, "I was sort of out of commmission for that time."
You say, "I read newsnet allthe time, butnot r.a.d"
Den says, "at the beginning."
Tink says, "ok..."
Den "of it.
Den says, "of the disney thing."
Den smiles.
Tink says, "how do you think MG found out about you then?"
Den says, "sorry about my lack of eloquence, and poor choice of words."
You say, "I posted a wacko ad to the newsgroup:  red.games.mud.announce"
Tink says, "it's ok...."
Tink says, "ahhhh....when was that?"
You say, "um, i dunno.  it's in the log."
You say, "actually, I posted there twice"
You say, "both times were real small, subtle ads"
Tink says, "ok, i'll check the log..."
You say, "I was just wondering what would happen"
Tink says, "but MG managed to pick up on them...btw, i've met him this summer"
You say, "also, I put wacko's ad in my .sig"
Tink says, "he's working over at the Magic Kingdom..."
You say, "but I've only met a handful of people who found us through that"
Tink says, "but don't think that all of us from r.a.d. are working for 
Disney...that's definitely not the case"
Den grins.
Tink says, "so tell me what happened when MG all of a sudden appeared and 
started buildng like crazy"
You say, "he didn't really biuld like crazy"

[I do a @stats MG]
108 objects  =   22 rooms, 85 exits, 0 things, 0 programs, 1 players, 0 garbage.
You say, "he has 22 rooms, 85 exits"
Tink says, "ok...then why sit up and take notice of him..."
You say, "well,he build them all in one day"
*[guest has connected]*
ch'od grins
You say, "so, I'm like, uh.... you know, that's fast."
Tink says, "oah...he's not built anything else, has he?"
You say, "nope"
Tink says, "yes, i would think so...and did he tell you about the party at the 
time?"
You say, "after I asked him about the buiding, he told me about the party"
You say, "of course, this was like, the day before the actualparty date"
Tink says, "and what did you think?...was some of it a result of how you felt 
about nails?"
Den says, "elaine36.Stanford.EDU"
You say, "yeah."

[WHO guest]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
1   guest(#3147)              [   107]    00:01   1s elaine36.Stanford.EDU
The scrungy factor is 9.   Not-down time: 1d 01:53

Den says, "guest."
Tink says, "there you go...that's my boss..."
You say, "we've had elaine6 a lot"

[@tel *guest=here]
Teleported.
guest bounces in.
Den says, "hi guest."
Den waves.
Tink says, "hey guest"
You say, "hi, Mr.Tink'sboss"
You say, "maybe"
Tink grins at boss
You say, "type 'say hi'"
Tink laughs b/c the wizzes think Tink's a guy
***** guest doesn't know anything *****
Tink says, "you're just in time for us to talk about r.a.d. and how it arrived 
on wacko"
guest says, "hi, this is Olivia"
*[sharia has disconnected]*
Tink says, "hi Olivia!...i wondered if it would be you or Arnold"
You say, "oh,oops"
guest says, "I couldn't get in under the password Arnold gave me...."
Tink grins at ch'od's mistake!
You say, "guest, you need a character"
Den says, "what huh?"
guest says, "Sorry I'm late..."
You say, "yeah, well, you know."
Den looks lost.
Tink says, "that's ok, as i said, you're just in time for us to acutally start 
talking about Disney in relation to wakco"
guest says, "So how do I name myself?"
You say, "guest, you need to use a real character instead of guest"
You say, "if you just want a temp character, you can use ooky"
Den says, "ch'od why don't you create one."
You say, "or lyn"
Tink says, "sorry, Den...this is my boss, i'm a girl, and ch'od made a mistake"
You say, "BWA HA"
You say, "no, I thought Tink's boss was a guy"
Den says, "umm, I don't think I even caught the mistake."
Tink says, "he said "mr. Tink"
guest says, "Well, there's two of us...."
You say, "what do you want your name to be, guest?"
Den says, "I'll just forget the whole thing and start over :)"

[WHO guest]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
1   guest(#3147)              [  2686]    00:04   7s elaine36.Stanford.EDU
The scrungy factor is 8.   Not-down time: 1d 01:56

Tink says, "yes, there is two of them...this ihappens to be Olivia"
You say, "oh, there's two people?"
You say, "two pepole watching the same computer?"
guest says, "Let's go with my real name (so I'm boring) - Olivia"
Den just sort of assumed from the name that you were female, Tink
guest has connected.
guest looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
*[guest has connected]*
Tink grins at Olivia
Den says, "I guess I was right."

[@pcreate Olivia=hithere]
Oh boy, fresh meat.

[@tel *olivia=here]
Teleported.
Olivia bounces in.

You say, "whee."
Tink says, "that's ok Olivia"
You say, "is there someone else that needs a character?"
Tink smiles at her and understands....
guest says, ""bouncing?"  Not quite my style, but I'll adapt..."
Tink says, "well, arnold was workingn on a character, but i dont' know if that's 
ok..."
You say, "okay, Olivia, just QUIt, and instead of 'connect guest guest' type 
'connect olivia hithere'"
Tink says, "you generally bounce when you come in to anywhere MC has built, so 
doen't worry about it"
You say, "you bounce when you arrive anywhere, period."
You say, "that's hardcoded in the muck itself"
guest looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
Tink says, "yes, i know, ch'od...but you don't 'bounce in for a cuppa'"
You say, "oh, roit."
guest has disconnected.
home goes guest.
guest has left.
*[guest has disconnected]*

[WHO guest]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
1   guest(#3147)              [   100]    00:07  57s elaine36.Stanford.EDU
The scrungy factor is 8.   Not-down time: 1d 01:58

Tink laughs in giggles
Den says, "uh oh."
You say, "wrong guest"
Tink says, "Olivia's just looking around"
Tink says, "she's never been here before"
You say, "guest, type QUIT and re-telnet"
guest has connected.
guest looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
*[guest has connected]*

[WHO guest]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
11  guest(#3147)              [  2686]    00:00   4s soho06.ac.hunter.cuny.edu
1   guest(#3147)              [  2686]    00:07  34s elaine36.Stanford.EDU
The scrungy factor is 10.   Not-down time: 1d 01:59

You say, "using the guest is going to be way too confusing"
Tink says, "olivia, feel free to look around..."
You say, "boom."
Tink says, "you'll get aa feel for everything...if you like, when we're done, 
i'll show you some of the things the r.a.d. people have built here on wacko and 
take you to some of the other rooms as well"
guest says, "say fine, Isay say I'll be happy to reconnect if you'll tell me who 
to reconnect as...."
You say, "connect Olivia hithere"
guest says, "will do!  Bye!"
guest has disconnected.
home goes guest.
guest has left.
*[guest has disconnected]*
Tink says, "ok, now, we'll go ahead and resume the interview"
You say, "wait for olivia"
Olivia has connected.
Olivia looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
*[Olivia has connected]*
You say, "ta da"
Olivia says, "Yay!"
Tink says, "so, what was your reaction to MG's announcement about the party, 
anddid the previous (yes, well, i know) situation w/ nails affect your 
reaction?"
Tink claps for Olivia
Olivia says, "Actually, I don't think I've seen that yet...."
You say, "I just raised my hand in this 'oh, no, not again' and just griped a 
lot"
Tink says, "Olivia, MG is Master Gracie from r.a.d."
You say, "Actually, I originally tried to shuffle them all off to pegasus"
Den says, "Master Gracie?"
Tink says, "ok...and what was the naature of your discussion abouthis from 
him...yes, i noticed that in the log..."
Den didn't know that.
You say, "I thought that was the best solution for everyone"
You say, "Because A) They just wanted someplace to throw their party.  so let 
them throw it on Peg"
You say, "B)  peg needed more players.  'nuff said"
Tink says, "Master Gracie is the Host of disney's Haunted Mansion"
Tink says, "aand MG works there RL"
Olivia says, "Is that his name?"
You say, "But MG wasn't amused by the idea"
Tink says, "No, that's not his name..."
*[Jasmine has connected]*
Tink says, "Master Gracie is an FDC Char"
Olivia says, "I'm actually at work right now, so I may not toss in too many 
comments...."
You say, "also, he said that very few people would come, and nobody would build 
anything.  (YEAH, RIGHT)"
Tink says, "tha'ts ok, Olivia, i sort of figured"
You say, "Of course, he thought he was right.  But I knew frome xperience that 
he was Monster wrong"
Tink says, "i wsn't at that first party...did you sit in on it at all...and what 
happend as a result"
You say, "no.  I didn't go."
You say, "I figured it would irritate me too much"
You say, "anyway, so that was the first party"
You say, "Then doc threw one, and triton tried to throw one"
Den grins.
You say, "I casually crashed Triton's party, though.  "
Tink says, "and what ere the residuals from throwing these parties (ie, 
resulting rooms, objects, etc"
ch'od whistles casually
You say, "actually, it was very nice and neat."
You say, "We could have easily ignored the entire disney thing if we really 
wanted to"
Tink says, "ok...then what happened w/ the subsequaent parties (and why crash 
Trit's?)"
You say, "becaues people would get on, and immediately teleport to MG's mansion"
Den says, "oops."
You say, "all their building was stuffed in a corner, floating on disney 
island."
You say, "it really didn't affect Wacko in the least."
Tink says, "so it ws contaained...i see...then what caused the confliect?"
Den says, "well, some of the annoyingness was people who got on, built a lot, 
and don't come back."
Olivia says, "Excuse me, but my terminal can't handle more that 80 characters."
You say, "Well.  for some reason, it really really irritated me.  I "
Den says, "oops, sorry."
Olivia says, "it chops them off, rather than scrolling.  Could you keep it 
short?  Thansk"
*[guest has disconnected]*
You say, "couldn't place why.  that was the main source of my "
You say, "frustration"
Den says, "build a lot, and don't come back."
You say, "that's why I let it go."
You say, "Den & i talked about this after Wackfest"
Den nods.
You say, "and we decided that even though it didn't disrupt anything,"
You say, "it's still extremely extremely rude."
Den could give a quick example.
Message sent to sharia.
Tink says, "yes, please do"
Den says, "I havn't seen triton on for more than 5 minutes - ever."
Den says, "me, that is."
Den says, "he has obviously been on longer than that.."
Tink says, "ah...so people just use wacko for convenience, rather than 
contributing "
Den says, "since he has 150 objects -> 37 rooms, 93 exits, 19 things and 
himself."
*[Selma has connected]*
Den says, "himself."
Message sent to Selma.
Den says, "but lately, he gets on, and then within a minute or two, 
disconnects."
You say, "I don't even care about the abusing part"
You say, "er, about the lack of contributions"
Den says, "oops, sorry.. he just disconnects right away."
Selma pages from Zen Garden(#1746RJA): Heigh ho!
Den nods.
Tink says, "ah...well, if he's not ever on, then why not get rid of his stuff 
(ahhh)...well, then what's the story..."
You say, "there are people who get on, look around, and aren't on much"
You say, "that's fine."
Tink says, "i see...please continue"
You say, "here's how I view the parties - den was the one that made"
You say, "up this exajple, actually"
Tink says, "ok..."
Den says, "I did?"
You say, "okay.  It's like den & I are throwing a party"
You say, "and we say, 'bring your friends'"
You say, "So, MG comes along, and says, "hey, wait."
Selma bounces in.
Selma bats at your shoelaces.
You say, "I want to throw a party, but I don't have a house"
You say, "so, since I can bring my friends,"
You say, "why don't I invite 2000 people over to their house"
Selma says, "hey ya'll!"
You say, "and throw my party there"
You say, "and I'll bet WAY more than 2000 people read r.a.d"
ch'od hugs Selma
Selma says, "I've heard estimates in the 100s of thousands"
Den says, "hiya Selma"
You say, "are they breaking any rules?  no."
Den waves!
Tink smiles at selma
Selma kisses ch'od on the forehead
Olivia says, "Actually,  it's guesstimated at 78000...."
You say, "but you see the point?"
Selma hugs den
You say, "without even asking, of course"
Selma waves at Tink
Olivia says, "Yes, Arnold and I actually discussed that last night."
Tink says, "yes, of course i completely understand"
Olivia says, "How public is a mud, is the question."
You say, "MC was trying to calm down the disney people"
*[Jasmine has connected]*
You say, "by the time of doc's party, things were mostly calmed down"
Tink says, "but do you have any objection to those of us who stay (yes, MC's a 
good person)"
Selma whispers, "I've been FDC for about two months .... but I'm _NICE_ FDC ;)"
You say, "and when Triton still decided to throw his party,"
You say, "I said, 'bag that' so I shut the muck down on the day of his party"
Den says, "no, not at all. (no objection to those who stay)"
Tink says, "or if we were to invite people to wacko w/ the proviso that they 
come w/ the intention of staying?"
Tink says, "not saying that it's been done"
Den says, "well.. I think the point is.."
Selma came with the Disney people too
Tink says, "or that it's in the works"
Den says, "when you invite people.. you try to invite in moderation."
Tink says, "yes, i understand,...and that's difficult w/ something as large as 
r.a.d."
Den says, "and make sure that the people you invite, also are going to abide by 
this courtesy."
Den nods.
You say, "To answer your question, Olivia, "
You say, "muds are as public as we wish to make it."
Selma whispers, "Is olvia Disney, I know Tink"
You say, "Not many mucks are open creation like we are"
You whisper, "olivia is Tink's RL boss" to Selma.
You say, "we have the option of not allowing creates."
You say, "but that's annoying for everyone."
You say, "feel free to pop in any questions that entire your"
Tink says, "yes, Olivia...wacko is highly unstructured and more intimate than 
many other mucks in existence"
You say, "head, olivia.  there's probably dozens."
You say, "mucks are pretty mind boggling at first"
Olivia says, "Yes, it's just tough to work and read this at the same time!"
You say, "yeah.  the open create puts us at risk.  "
Tink smiles at Selma, to make sure she knows she's not forgotten
You say, "but that's how we chose to run wacko"
You say, "because, it's just plain more fun."
Olivia says, "Did you get a lot of people checking in when newsweek "
Olivia says, "printed the address?"
You say, "TONS"
Tink says, "they've provided me w/ some of those figures already...what are the 
stats at now?"
Selma says, "has that slowed down?"
You say, "in terms of pure 'people checking the place out',"
You say, "we had 100/day for the 1st two days"
Olivia says, "(lost you tink, please hold to 80 char)"
You say, "olivia, I am capturing this entire thing in a "
You say, "capture file"
Tink says, "ok, sorry Olivia..."
You say, "so I can e-mail it to you later, if you wish"
You say, "you can also read everything you missed earlier"
Tink says, "they're saving this entire conversation for us..."
You say, "it's slowed down a lot, selma"
Tink says, "as am i...it's a safety measure"
Olivia says, "Thanks. I;ll give you the address before I singn off."
You say, "it should totally fade out nowthat the new NW is out"
Tink says, "and whaat are teh grand totals?"
Tink says, "number of people who just looked for all days"
You say, "um."
You say, "If you want me to count the guests, that'll take a minute"
Tink says, "number of people who've created chaara."
Tink says, "number of builders..."
Tink says, "thaat's ok, we need the info"
You say, "we can't tell  howmany people built."
You say, "well, we could, but that would take a long time"
Tink says, "wok...but"
Tink says, "well..."
You say, "hang on."
Tink says, "you can get those figures to me later"
You say, "okay"
Tink says, "but i'm really intereested in knowing"
You say, "btw, during the disney thing, Den was off in RL doing stuff"
Tink says, "the full amount of people NW caused"
Den says, "yea, I got hung up with RL problems."
Tink says, "so you were deaaling with it alone"
You say, "actually, NW had far less of an effect as we thought"
Tink says, "it's ok, Den, i understand"
Selma says, "RL -- what kind of excuse is that.  You should never let RL impigne 
on VR!"
Tink says, "how do you mean?"

[@stats]
4329 objects  =   755 rooms, 1964 exits, 966 things, 156 programs, 466 players, 
22 garbage.

rutabaga_man starts to cringe at the mention of VR
You say, "okay, to date, we have 466 people."
Tink grins at selma's priorityes
Den says, "we expected mass numbers of people connecting and saying on."
rutabaga_man looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
You say, "on midnight 7/26, we had 417"
Den says, "during the Nails thing, we had, what, amost 40 people on, once."
Tink says, "really, you thought it would be permanent"
Selma puts her priorities in line
You say, "and ao ahead and assume we got a couple of creations"
Selma looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
You say, "on 7/26 (the first day the NW came out)"
Tink says, "do you think these new char are from NW?"
Tink says, "all of them?"
You say, "actually, it's a blend of NW and Delphi."
Den says, "asking them proved to be that a lot were from NW, and some were from 
Delphi"
Tink says, "yes, i noticed the Delphi situation"
You say, "Maybe Den & I have some kind of psychic hotline"
Tink says, "whaat happened again?"
Tink says, "with Delphi?"
Den says, "of course, the Delphi people heard about it from Newsweek."
You say, "wrong, den."
Den says, "that's the impression I got, anyway."
Tink says, "oh...well, which is it?"
Den says, "the person who posted onto the MUD list."
You say, "the delphi guy heard Wacko mentioned on another muck or such"
Den says, "got it from Newsweek./"
Den ohs
Den hms.
Den shrugs.
Tink thinks you guys are confused :)
You say, "actually, he just said 'in conversation'"
You say, "and he tried to start up a 'mud tour' thing"
Den says, "it was just coincidental that it happened near the same time then"
Selma says, "you can't keep people from talking about Wacko, that would be 
_REALLY_ hard."
Tink says, "ah...so coincendince..."
You say, "Selma, olivia has no  line wrap, "
Den says, "I guess so."
You say, "actually, Wacko is good at keeping subtle"
Selma ohhs.... I've had that problem
Tink says, ""olivia, Selma is r.a.d., too"
You say, "yay"
Selma bows to the other r.a.d
Olivia smiles at Selma
ch'od throws catnip at Selma
Selma travels incognito
Tink throws a little PD on the nip for good measure
You say, "anyway, the delphi guy didn't realize how insane his"
Selma gives Olivia a peek at her mouse ears
You say, "mud tour thing would get"
You say, "but I happened to catch him online"
Tink says, "sort of a contradiction, being feline and mouse"
Selma sniffs suspiciously at the catnip
Olivia scratches Selma behine the ears
You say, "and we talked it over.  he was a nice enough guy"
Olivia says, "So, I'm curious as to how you generally"
Tink says, "the Ole Dust won't hurt anything, S."
Olivia says, "view new people joining.  I used to be active in a BBS"
Tink listens for their answer to O's question
Olivia says, "scene about 8 years ago, and they were open, but new people en 
mass"
Selma drops mouse ears.
You say, "As far as I'm concerned, if you're a nice person, come on over."
Olivia says, "were a pain.  But it's hard to "
You say, "and if you want to have a place to talk, or build, come on over."
Selma is a contradiction -- that's why she's here
Tink says, "so those are the major roles of Wacko, IYO, ch'od?"
You say, "what is annoying is when people don't have any respect"
You say, "respect for other people, or respect towards the muck."
Tink says, "well, you tell me"
You say, "Major roles of wacko?"
*[Gene-Splicer has connected]*
*[guest has connected]*
You say, "yo, den"
Tink says, "place to talk, place to build, be nice"
ch'od pokes den
Den says, "yeeg"
Selma adjusts the light so it shines right in ch'od's eyes
You say, "beats me.  =)"
Tink throws some Pixie Dust on Den to make him sneeze
Selma says, "we have ways of making you talk..."
Den says, "Major roles of wacko?"
Den says, "it was our place to play."
Den says, "where we invited friends and new friends to come join us."
You say, "hey, good answer."
*[Gene-Splicer has disconnected]*
You say, "it's our party, and we don't have any chaperones"
Den says, "and they can invite more new friends.."
You say, "or any house rules"
Olivia says, "(sorry, had a question from somebody)"
Den says, "etc etc."
You say, "every now and then, someone asks me what the point of Wacko is."
*[guest has disconnected]*
Olivia says, "You want it to be "open", but not like the county fair"
You say, "Because on a MUD, the  point is to get to experience level 50"
You say, "and I say, "sorry, this isn't a MUD.  this is a MUCK"
You say, "so they say, okay, what's the point of Wacko?"
Den says, "you have to win."
You say, "and I grin like an idiot and say, "there isn't one.""
Den says, "but I can't tell you how."
Den giggles.
Tink grins, because that sounds like ch'odspeak
You say, "the object is to get the -exact- number of colors"
You say, "bwa ha ha"
Tink thinks ch'od is a happily sadistic wiz
You say, "I dunno.  Den & i created wacko so we had a place"
Tink and appreciates his humor
You say, "to get away from all the Bureocratic BS you have to deal with"
You say, "everywhere else"
Selma has to go
Selma hugs ch'od bye
You say, "most people respect that a lot.  and they appreciate it"
Selma waves all round
Den says, "byebye Selma!"
home goes Selma.
Selma has left.
Den waves!
Den missed, darn.
You say, "so they don't abuse it.  that's why wacko  has survived"
Message sent to Selma.
Tink says, "nice try Den"
Den grins.
You say, "even survived all these influxes"
You say, "it's amazing.  We're a freak of nature"
Den says, "and the fact that we changed dbs on them."
ch'od  :P
Olivia says, "dbs?"
You say, "a muck is composed of two things"
*[tails has connected]*
You say, "the program you run,"
Den says, "augh."
You say, "oh BOY"
You say, "and the list of everything in the muck - the db"
Den appologizes for the sudden adverse reaction.
You say, "short for database"
ch'od laughs
Tink says, "problem, den?"
You say, "man, we're cruel"
Olivia says, "ok, got it, the database of users and items"
You say, "right."
*[Selma has disconnected]*
Den says, "someone we don't really like just connected."
Den nods, cruel.
Den looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
You say, "anyway, trying to fix a db that is really munged is"
You say, "really hard"
You say, "so twice, we just started over"
Tink whispers, "is there any way to keep him away?"
rutabaga_man is back and listening
Tink whispers, "never mind...den's working on it"
You whisper, "well, it's hard to prevent him from paging" to Tink.
Olivia says, "And I imagine you have to be dedicated to rebuild. so a lot of 
users drop off."
Tink whispers, "i don't mind that...it's just having him show up..."
You whisper, "yeah, I know." to Tink.
You say, "actually,it's interesting."
Tink whispers, "he's a *pest*"
You say, "I've offered to help people rebuild their stuff"
Den nods.
You say, "but usually everyone says, 'Nah.  I'll just make something BETTER"
Tink says, "thta's very interesting"
Tink says, "have been curious as to why some of the Disney stuff isn't gone"
Tink says, "because obviously some of it is not used much"
Den says, "well.."
Tink says, "ie,., Aquatica"
You say, "Well, Tink, if we nuked it, what would be the possible reasons?"
Tink says, "disuse"
You say, "yeah, but it's not taking up too much space"
You say, "It is and it isn't."
Olivia is working for a few minutes
Tink says, "but that's a problem if Trit's been logging on for short times"
Den says, "mostly we would nuke it because we don't like it not being used."
Den says, "and that's sort of unfair."
You say, "the bottom line, is, we'd only kill it if we didn't want it"
Tink says, "exactly how much space does the disney stuff take up?"
You say, "and that's just mean."
Den says, "maybe people use it, but the person who owns it doesn't use it."
rutabaga_man has disconnected.
*[rutabaga_man has disconnected]*
Den says, "hmm."
Den says, "that's a good question."
Tink says, "and which parts of it is built better than others/"
Den says, "we'd have to check on every 'disney' name."
You say, "and that's the exact kind of attitude we don't want."
You say, "I aleady did that, den."
ch'od smiles
Den says, "oh. heh."
You say, "disney owns 825 objects"
Den says, "got a db percentage?"
Tink says, "aren't you good, ch'od"
You say, "and we've purged a little.  players, for sure."
Tink pats him on the back
You say, "I'd say they owned nearly 1000 objects"
Den says, "so, it's like, 15%?"
4329 objects  =   755 rooms, 1964 exits, 967 things, 156 programs, 466 players, 
21 garbage.
You say, "at the time, they owned about 1/3 of wacko."
*[gumbi has connected]*
You say, "it didn't help that disney people kept making more and more"
gumbi bounces in.

[WHO gumbi]
FD  The Scrungies             Zone       On For Idle Hostess Twinkies
5   gumbi(#730)               [  2686]    00:00   4s merle.acns.nwu.edu
The scrungy factor is 10.   Not-down time: 1d 02:41

Tink says, "wow!....how did it get cut back so much"
gumbi says, "damn"
gumbi has disconnected.
*[gumbi has disconnected]*
You say, "buh"
Den says, "huh?"
You say, "and wacko people were recycling their stuff"
Den looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
You say, "around that time, I made the puzzle house"
Tink says, "ah...now, IYO, which parts of the disney stuff is built better?"
Tink likes the puzzle house
You say, "Much as I regret to say it, Doc's castle isn't too bad."
Den says, "oh, ch'od, what was your convention for rating things as Disney or 
not Disney."
Tink says, "why the regret?"
You say, "because I don't like the reason it was created - for a party"
Den says, "like, Selma, she's Disney, but her building style is not."
Tink says, "ahh...i understand...but i know that people use it as a chat area 
now"
You say, "the line was easier to draw back then, den.  anyone linked to"
You say, "r.a.d was disney"
Den hms.
Den nods.
Den says, "so it's not quite so clear now..."
You say, "at the time, Disney talked only for disney, and built only for disney"
You say, "that's why they were disliked to much.  and the general rolled"
You say, "eyes attitude toward them."
Den nods.
Den says, "to=so"
You say, "right."
You say, "actually, it was more than a rolled eyes attitude"
Olivia says, "so the problem was disney not joining, but moving in and ignoring"
Olivia says, "the old residents?"
You say, "I guess."
You say, "let me  put it this way"
You say, "let's say I'm walking around Wacko."
Den says, "use the party analogy again :)"
You say, "and I run into someone"
Den laughs.
You say, "and I say, "so.  what do you think of wacko?  any suggestions?""
Tink thinks she already understands his point
You say, "and they say, "Who cares about wacko, I'mjust here for the disney 
stuff"
You say, "I'm just here for the disney stuff"
Tink says, "so a lot of the r.a.d. people cared less about wacko itself"
Tink says, "which i understand would be annoying"
You say, "at the time, r.a.d couldn't give half a carea bout wacko."
You say, "even though their existance relied on ours."
You say, "that's the main reason they really buggedm e."
Tink understands completely
Tink says, "and what about those ofus who have remained?"
Den says, "that's also the reason that the large # of objects is/was annoying."
Den says, "was/is?"
You say, "those who remained, I like.  and quite a bit."
Den nods
Tink says, "who here is from r.a.d.?"
You say, "MC, Yingying, Boobear, Selma.  and you."
You say, "r.a.d?"
Tink blushes and smiles in thanks
You say, "not many.  you, MC.  Selma."
Den says, "oh?"
Tink says, "Rec.arts.disney"
You say, "Triton and Doc log on about 5 times a day, about 5 second each."
Tink says, "Sherline is from r.a.d., too"
Den says, "what about sharia?"
You say, "she is?"
Tink says, "she has several char., Jasmine being one of them..."
You say, "sharia isn't r.a.d"
Olivia says, "how strange. What can that short a connection give?/"
Den thought she caught us from rad.
Den shrugs.
You say, "when you connect, it automatically tells you if you have mail"
sharia pages from A Place of Dark and Lonely Comfort(#4155R): *hug*
You say, "so you can connect, and QUIT immediately"
Tink says, "yes, she's friends w/ Boobear, Barker, and yingying"
*[tails has disconnected]*
Olivia nods
Message sent to sharia.
*[sharia has disconnected]*
You say, "that's annoying too.  they've been doing it for months."
Tink says, "so you think those two are still only"
You say, "but it's something you can just ignore."
Den was thinking it might just be summer.
You say, "they've been doing it ever since the disney parties stopped."
You say, "not quite to this extent, of course."
Tink says, "using Wacko as a convenient site"
Tink says, "as opposed to participating"
Tink says, "like MC and I do"
You say, "no muck is going to be utopia.  Wacko was a change for me"
*[sharia has connected]*
You say, "to try out a few things I always wanted to try"
You say, "I don't know, I didn't care about MC or you"
You say, "I could,but why bother, kind of."
Tink says, "no, i mean we participate in wacko..."
You say, "I basically tell people that we have one rule"
Den says, "ours!"
Tink says, "as opposed to what you're referenceing"
Den says, "oops, no, that's not what I mean.."
Den smiles sweetly.
You say, "As long as I don't hear about it, do whatever you want."
You say, "ours what?"
Den says, "er.. I was sort of quoting from a movie.. but it didn't work."
Den says, "just ignore my ourburst."
You say, "oh"
*[tails has connected]*
Den says, "augh, again?"
Tink says, "but you'd rather have people interacting w/ all kinds of people"

[ex *tails]
tails(#2844PB)  Colors: 0
Type: PLAYER  Flags: BUILDER
Key: *UNLOCKED*
Properties:
_page-lastpaged: "lyn"
pull: "help"
Carrying:
a chair(#2799-)
a long couch(#2717-)
a sterieo(#4296-)
Home: Really tall room(#100RJHAM)
Location: Mars(#514RJ)
No actions!!

Olivia says, "Just curious, if you had to consider Wacko as a "
You say, "did you do someting to tails?"
Tink says, "from wacko and "
Den says, "no."
Den says, "why?"
You say, "I was under the impression you were going to"
Olivia says, "physical place, would you think of it"
Tink says, "not just using it and not appriciating it"
Olivia says, "like a home, or a public place like a bar, or a park, or...."
Den grins.
You say, "a party."
Den says, "I'd say it's sort of like having an 'open party' in your house."
You say, "in a big building or something that Den & I made"
Den nods.
You say, "even though it started off as an amusement park"
ch'od grins
Den goes along with what ch'od said.
Den laughs
Tink laughs
You say, "but we are unthemed."
You say, "we're different in that respect"
Tink says, "wacko still *is* an amusement park of sorts"
Den says, "I have to leave."
Olivia says, "just not one with mouse ears?"
Den says, "oh, I wouldn't say that."
You say, "I don't care of Wacko has Disney stuff."
You say, "don't care if, I mean."
Tink says, "I see..."
You say, "If you want to build disney, go ahead."
Den says, "this is hard to explain, sort of."
Tink says, "but you'd rather we take care of things in moderation"
You say, "I don't know if I posted this to r.a.d or not."
You say, "maybe once."
Tink says, "go ahead, ch'od"
Den nods.
Den has to go.
You say, "But we're not a Disney Muck."
Den says, "gotta get to work."
You say, "okay.  um, I can e-mail this to you later, then, den?"
Den grins.
Tink waves to Den and gives him a hug
Olivia says, "Thank you Den."
You say, "man, this is taking a while, isn't it.  :P"
Tink says, "sorry, ch'od"
You say, "no, I'm having fun"
Den says, "yea, you can either mail it or leave it on gamesmgr."
Den waves..
You say, "okay.  i'll stick it in gamesmgr"
Den says, "I hope I helped.."
Den didn't say a whole lot
Den :)
ch'od grins
Den grins.
Den waves!
Den says, "bye all"
You say, "don't sweat over it.  you were here on time, at least.  :P"
Tink says, "bye DEN!"
*[She has connected]*
Den says, "hehe"
Olivia  and then ground engage in a round of goodbyes
You say, "bye!"
Den waves again.
Olivia says, "oops!  bad typeing!"
Den bounces away on a giant pogo stick.
Den has left.
tails bounces in.
Tink says, "no problem"
You say, "Okay, I got a sentence"
Den yells really loudly, "'night world!"
*[Den has disconnected]*
Tink whispers, "ohh god, he found us"
You whisper, "ignore tails.  completely.  Thank you!" to Olivia.
You whisper, "just ignore him" to Tink.
Tink whispers, "don't worry I WILL"
You say, "okay, try this sentece:"
You say, "We're a muck with disney stuff.  But, we are not a Disney muck."
Tink says, "so, you dn't mind if the Disney people are here"
You say, "that's a huge difference."
tails looks around tink's house then goes into her room
gumbi has connected.
gumbi looks around Tink's little home, admiring the decorating.
*[gumbi has connected]*
Tink says, "yes, i ucompletely iunderstand"
Olivia says, "No, I do understand what you are saying."
tails ventures off to explore Tink's wardrobe... Tails better hope Tink doesn't 
come back and find tails there!
tails has left.
You say, "Our primary purpose is not to build disney stuff and "
You say, "serve the siney people"
Olivia says, "I guess, the biggest question there still is, is how public is 
this sort"
You say, "serve the disney people."
Tink says, "i think he means that Disney is not the whole thing"
Olivia says, "sort of place."
Tink says, "and that there's not a theme on wakco"
*[Beldin has connected]*
tails walks in from Tink's wardrobe, and closes the doors behind tails.
tails bounces in.
Tink says, "whereas if we were to build a Disney mcuk"
gumbi has left.
tails leaves Tink's pretty little cottage home and travels back to Never Never 
Land.
tails has left.
Tink says, "we would have a theme, and the building"
Tink says, "would be specifically Disney..."
Tink says, "not open like wacko"
*[Serb has connected]*
You say, "right.  If I went to a Disney muck and made "
You say, "non-disney stuff, I'd get kicked off, no questions asked."
Tink whispers, "yay! he's gone :)"
You whisper, "hee hee" to Tink.
Tink giggles at ch'od
You say, "I guess you can think of Wacko as a small park in a big city"
You say, "one that nobody really knows about"
Tink gets the picture
You say, "except the people who know how to get there"
Olivia says, "So you're open, people can come in, but it's small enough that you 
need to be polite"
Tink says, "so what do you think about the residuals"
Olivia says, "need to be polite and friendly,"
Tink says, "from the Newsweek thing"
You say, "well, 'need to be' is a strange wording."
Tink says, "do you think there's been much damage?"
Olivia says, "you can't have people throwing their footballs into others 
barbecues"
Tink says, "good analogy, O"
You say, "No, Tink, I think we barely have damage at all."
Tink applauds in appreciation
You say, "yeah, good analogy."
Tink says, "so the results were not anything major"
You say, "I guess the object is to invite as many nice people as possible,"
sharia pages from A Place of Dark and Lonely Comfort(#4155R): still being 
interviewed?  ;)
Tink sighs in relief
You say, "wihtout accidentally inviting someone who is going to decide"
You say, "that it would be fun to set the entire park on fire."
Tink says, "hence your worries about troublemakers "
Message sent to sharia.
You say, "right."
Tink says, "O, you'll see that in the file capture"
Olivia says, "ok."
You say, "see, with any open invitation,"
You say, "you'll get really nice people,"
You say, "normal decent people"
Olivia says, "But the problem is that since you are open...anybody can telnet 
here...."
Tink says, "and bad apples ;)"
You say, "some people you dont really like much,"
You say, "and yeah.  some real slime."
ch'od nods to Olivia.  That's why we keep a low profile.
Tink says, "we're covering old material"
You say, "okay, ask me something new, then."
ch'od grins
Tink says, "well, i have my questions all answered"
Olivia says, "sorry tink.  You've been here longer - anything you haven't 
covered"
You say, "ah."
Tink says, "if anything, i think O would have them"
You say, "hmm."
You say, "you know, one of these days, byte is going to have to return"
You say, "the computer we're running on."
Tink says, "no, i've gotten the history, etc..."
You say, "nobody really thinks about that much."
Tink says, "yes, ch'od, and what is your opinion on that?"
Tink says, "i can understand why..."
You say, "I don't know, actually."
Olivia says, "there's not much interest in history of the net, on the net"
You say, "You know, Wacko wasn't designed to ever last as long as it has."
Tink says, "the one thing you've not answered"
Tink says, "is where you're at schol"
Tink says, "and since it has lasted this long"
You say, "I answered that,  you probably missed it.  Suny Stony Brook"
Tink says, "you've grown rather attached to it"
You say, "that's State U. of NY"
Tink says, "yes, got it now, thanks"
Olivia nods
You say, "Actually, when we lose the machine, that's it.  game over."
Tink says, "will be a shame to lose wacko if that day comes"
You say, "yeah.  wacko is pretty unique."
Tink agrees in full...
You say, "actually, a more interesting question is,"
Tink says, "yes?"
You say, "what would happen if Den and/or I graduated"
Tink says, "good point....and the danger of that happening? *grin*"
Olivia laughs
*[Deimos has disconnected]*
You say, "Gee, THANKS"
sharia pages from A Place of Dark and Lonely Comfort(#4155R): ok, spiffy.  :)
ch'od  :P
Tink laughs at ch'od
Tink says, "see, O, ch'ods a pushover"
Tink pushes ch'od over
ch'od falls over
( ch'od goes boom )
Olivia says, "well, you can always go for a second or third degree...."
You say, "Geesh, beating up on us helpless wizards, what has the world come to."
Tink grins at ch;od
You say, "well"
Tink says, "i'm always giving you abuse, it's nothing new"
Olivia is on the phone again...
You say, "odds are is that even if we graduate,"
Tink says, "seriously, though, when would you graduate?"
You say, "we'll still have net access at our jobs."
You say, "I have one more semester"
Tink says, "how close is that to coming?"
Tink says, "and Den?"
Tink says, "but it would be difficult to run a MUCK from work"
You say, "I'm not sure.  perhaps a while - that's a big major change"
You say, "Wacko was supposed to be self existing"
Tink says, "yes, that's true w/ den"
Tink says, "self-existing?"
You say, "Den & I weren't supposed to be wizards.  not really."
Tink says, "yes, i remember the story.."
Tink says, "but who would upkeep it if you were gone?"
You say, "ahhhh.  that's a good question."
You say, "To be  honest, one of us could run the place by him/herself."
*[sharia has disconnected]*
Tink nods and waits to see what hi opinion is
You say, "i'm  not sure why I put the her in."
Tink giggles
You say, "but two people's different view points helps a lot."
PC wiz
ch'od grins
Olivia hangs up the phone
You say, "actually, I can't view wacko with a different wizard."
Tink says, "i understand...helps the power freak situation"
Olivia says, "Yes, I run some systems here, and it's helpful to have"
Olivia says, "the input and work of another system manager."
Tink says, "neither can i"
You say, "originally, we decided it would be Den & I.  that's it."
Tink says, "yes...and were someone else to take it..."
You say, "When we were looking for sites to run wacko on,"
Tink says, "the two of you have a good thing going"
You say, "we made it very clear that if the sitemanager would only give us a "
You say, "site, if we made the sitemanager a wizard,"
You say, "then we didn't want the site.  no exceptions."
Tink says, "yes, i read that in the log"
You say, "I don't know.  I mightjust be saying this because wacko was 'ours'"
Tink looks at her watch
Tink says, "yes, i understand, protecting your 'kid' so to speak"
You say, "but if someone ran the place, It wouldn't be the same."
You say, "I don't think."
You say, "you could ask other people"
*[Fredd has connected]*
Tink says, "as i said, you and Den have a good thing...a lot of this place"
Tink says, "is how you two take care of things"
ch'od nods
Tink says, "i don't have anymore questions...Olivia?"
You say, "btw, if you logged the stuff before I got here, I'd like a copy of 
that"
Olivia says, "I cant think of anything more specific, no."
Tink says, "if i captured anything before you arrived, i'll send it, but i don't 
think so.."
You say, "okay"
You say, "spiffy"
ch'od yells really loudly, "raaar.  "
Tink says, ""make sure you still sedn me a copy of yours"
You say, "right.  what's your e-mail, o?"
Tink says, "becuse this is the first time i've had to file capture here"
Olivia says, "and please cc: me - aolivia@lira.stanford.edu"
* Serb thinks  ( on BrAiNwAVe public )
tails pages from Cloud 8(#589RJ): wuzat???
Tink says, "ch'od, you stil have my address?"
Olivia says, "That's the shortest of my e-mail addresses!"
Tink says, "recarts@gate.net"
*[Serb has disconnected]*
You say, "not really, I keep browsing r.a.d till I find it"
ch'od :P
Olivia says, "That's not hard!"
ha ha ha
Tink says, "very funny, ch'od"
You say, "actually, I'm serious"
Tink says, "btw, what *do* you think of r.a.d., the FDC?"
Tink says, "and Tink (on r.a.d.)"
You say, "I'm not particularly interested in either, to be honest."
You say, "it's a cute idea"
Tink says, "ok..."
*[byte has connected]*
You say, "r.a.d was inevitable"
Tink says, "i know that people don't all get into that"
Tink says, "care to clarify that?"
You say, "well, you know, Disney makes great movies. "
*[Noel has connected]*
Tink says, "that r.a.d. was inevitable?"
You say, "there's a newsgroup on everything."
Tink says, "yeah..ok, understand"
You say, "yeah, after all this, I have a big image of being totally "
You say, "anti-disney"
Tink says, "so you're not a lurker...that's all i wanted to know"
You say, "rather amusing."
Tink says, "well, i know what's really up"
You say, "sometimes, I read."
Tink says, "i think where the convfusion was"
Tink says, "had to do w/ MG and hsi presntaiton to r.a.d."
Tink says, "of the parties and WACKO..."
You say, "yeah, he kinda made it sound like it was our idea"
Tink says, "he really made us think that things were ok."
Olivia says, "Sorry, I have to go now.  How do I log off?"
Tink says, "it was really shsocking for me to read the log"
You say, "type 'QUIT'"
Tink says, "QUIT""
Huh?  (Type "help" for help.)
For basic help, type:   eep
Olivia says, "Ok.  Thank you, ch'od.  I look forward to reading the whole 
capture."
Olivia says, "Bye Tink."
Tink says, "and i think the rest (Bye Olivia! :) )"
You say, "THank you."
Olivia has disconnected.
*[Olivia has disconnected]*
You say, "does olivia need the happy.log?"
Tink says, "no, arnold has it"
You say, "okay, i'm killing the capture as of right now, andm ailing it 
rightnow"
You say, "i think we've covered everything"
Tink says, "fine!"