APPENDIX 7
Transcript of an Interview with Mr. Quincy
Lesley (Cheboygan Historical Society and former Mayor) on 18 July 2001
Me: How was Cheboygan founded?
QL: The original part of Cheboygan began with a man that
came here by accident and discovered there was great lumbering potential.
He started out with a stave mill. He settled on the Cheboygan River
because in those days rivers and lakes were the major form of transportation.
There were no railroads and no cars and it was seasonal because the fact the
ice in the region would keep the lakes closed and whoever was up here would
have to survive on what they got in the summer. This man brought his
family to the area and then others and the area became more attractive for
prospecting in the lumbering industry. So, between 1870 and 1900, lumbering
– specifically, White Pine trees – was the major industry.
In the county overall they used the streams and rivers to move the logs
during the spring and summer to the individual saw mills. In the winter,
the lumber was stock piled. Wagoners carried the timber to ports such
as Cheboygan and by 1900 there were over 9000 people living in Cheboygan.
There were ships in the harbour the whole time picking up lumber and delivering
winter storage products. It was a good time for the lumber industry
and side industries grew up; like the wood working industries, shipbuilding
industries and so on. In the 1890s, the lumber industry began to slump
off.
In the meantime the first railroad to come to Cheboygan was in 1882 – Michigan
Central, bought out by New York Central in 1926 – these railroads came up
here and increased the lumbering potential by building rails back into the
hinterland. They would harvest the lumber and as soon as they had felled
all the trees they would move their rails to another location. It became
a faster source of getting logs to the mills and a faster way of distributing
the lumber to the major towns like Detroit, which were growing very fast at
that particular time. In 1904, the Detroit and Mackinac Railroad came
to Cheboygan with the same prospect of taking advantage of the lumbering industry
and at the same time using its route which was on the eastern side of Michigan
near the city of Alpena to develop railroad stations to attract the people
who came up here to enjoy the summer season. It was said that we had
the freshest air in the world; the nicest climate in the world and this encouraged
these people to move up here. So, it was a sort of fare passenger service
and the railroads gradually developed these areas.
As far as industry was concerned, we had the major industries that were
related to the lumbering industry and one of the others was shipbuilding.
Cheboygan had shipbuilding and repair services. In 1866, Cheboygan
became a port. The federal government came in and dredged the Cheboygan
River to about 16 feet deep and about 200 feet wide. This took away
trade, and consequently importance, from a tiny city called Duncan City,
which was a lumbering town in its own right. This brought people into
Cheboygan and it became a service community. The new port allowed the
import of coal and caused the expansion of the railroads north towards Mackinaw
City and across the Straits of Mackinac, by car ferry, into the Upper Peninsular
(U.P.). So, the boating industry was important in the development of
Cheboygan.
Me: What was the cause of the 1890s-lumbering slump?
QL: Because the number of pine trees had run down.
The railroads had gone into the hinterland and the lumber industry had rapidly
harvested the trees.
Me: You said that the Detroit and Mackinac railroad brought
people into Cheboygan for the air and climate during the summer. Did
Cheboygan change to accommodate these people?
QL: Cheboygan was already a Mecca for weekenders from
the lumbering fields and they had hotels, more bars than you could care to
imagine and we had a county jail established here and it was a County Seat.
We were a service community. The railroads would bring in supplies and
Cheboygan was the centre of operations. People came to the city to buy provisions.
Farming was also an important part of Cheboygan’s life.
Me: So, was Cheboygan also the local agricultural centre?
QL: Cheboygan was the local agricultural centre, farmers
would come into town to sell their grain and the railroads would haul their
products out as well. So, Cheboygan was less an industrial community,
than a service community, with lumbering, farming, shipbuilding and the railroads
all carrying on here.
Me: When did the lumbering industry leave Cheboygan?
QL: From 1890 until the 1920s, the lumbering industry
reduced to very little. In Cheboygan in 1928, when I was 11 or 12,
the lumbering industry was virtually dead. People were sitting around
with their jobs were all done for. The young people were also getting
the feeling that there weren’t jobs also and they gradually drifted away
from Cheboygan to more industrial areas such as Chicago and Detroit.
Me: What happened to the railway? I know that Cheboygan
is no longer served by the railroad.
QL: In 1987 the last railroad left here. That was
the Detroit and Mackinac Railroad. Lack of passengers and the lack of
freight to be hauled out of Cheboygan was the reason. There was a paper
mill here that shipped their products by the railroad, but they found it
more economical to use trucks and this is another form of transportation.
Me: What was the company?
QL: Proctor and Gamble. The State of Michigan tried
to stop the railroad from pulling out, but in the end they couldn’t stop them.
Now, the railroad only comes up to Gaylord.
Me: When did Interstate 75 get built? What
was the effect?
QL: I75 was built directly after World War 2. The
northern part of the State and Mackinaw City were trying to attract people
for the beauty and history of the area and of course, for the type of service
we could provide these people by selling them land at very cheap prices to
build homes on the lakes. This was a new type of industry. Cheboygan
County has more inland lake water frontage than any other county in the State.
We have 3 major lakes – Mullet, Burt and Black – and then we have a transportation
system – the Cheboygan River.
Me: What were the major industries here during World War
2?
QL: In World War 2 we had major industries here that were
supplying materials for the war effort. As soon as 1946 came the industries
tried to maintain their businesses but found it cost too much to get their
products to the open market. The cost of labor was beginning to increase
and the lack of well-trained labor, able to work in the factories.
Me: I understand that I75 could have come to Cheboygan,
but the city fathers decided against it. Could you tell me a little
about that decision?
QL: Well, I was Mayor at the time and we tried to get
I75 into Cheboygan, just on the outskirts of the town near Western Avenue.
The state said that we would regret it because unwanted passenger cars and
trucks will overcrowd us. So they placed it for economic reasons – and
of course, they wanted the shortest route to the Straits of Mackinac, which
is about 7 miles west of Cheboygan.
Me: The ‘Straits of Mackinac’ meaning access to
the Upper Peninsular and Mackinaw Island?
QL: Yes, and they made enough off passes from the highway
to get to Cheboygan very easily, so the traffic in here would be that that
wanted to use the services provided in Cheboygan.
Me: When was the Mackinac Bridge built?
QL: It was finished in 1957 and that created an economic
boom because there were no more restrictions on the ferry service across the
Straits of Mackinac. It was an unrestricted way across to the U.P. at
45 mph.
Me: Thank you for that, I’d like to turn now to the two
out of town malls. What has their affect been on the downtown area?
QL: Well, starting after World War 2 the economic factor
was that everything was downtown. They were individual specialty businesses
– there was a shoe store, butchers, a dime store… as soon as K Mart
came in the late1980s, early 1990s, this caused some of the stores downtown
to close down, and the property to be converted to some other utility.
Some were bought and converted to restaurants, others to dollar (thrift) stores,
some to special types of clothing shop. The movie theatre is still
here and there was a donut shop. The major hotel shut right down as
did many of the bars. A couple of hardware stores have survived, but
they are chain stores, such as Ace Hardware. Now, we’re beginning to
see new stores. We have the book store down there now and several that
specialise in selling what I call little ‘doo-dads’.
Me: Do you mean souvenirs for tourists?
QL: Yes, that kind of thing. They often have Cheboygan
or Northern Michigan on them and I guess they buy them as a gift for someone
back home… We have a Chinese restaurant, which we didn’t have before.
We don’t have a shoe store any longer.
Me: Wal-Mart came in after K-Mart?
QL: Yes, they were a few years later… But, what
has happened you see is that people that never used to come into Cheboygan
now come to visit those stores because they have a wider range of merchandise.
Me: And did that have a positive affect on local restaurants
and bars?
QL: It affects our economy because the tax base has changed.
They pay more tax to support the community and they employ young people… they’re
always asking for new people to come in.
Me: What would you say has been the greatest influence
behind the change in Cheboygan?
QL: The greatest influence? Well, I think it was
that the people in the major cities have come up here and discovered our area
as a place of recreation. We are not a recreational community, but
as a place of recreation for themselves privately. We are close to
the major highways but we are isolated. Some people built their homes
way back and can’t be seen at all – they don’t want to be seen by anybody
– and boating is a major recreation in Cheboygan. We have 2 major boat
facilities open to the public. You can buy into one of them and have
your own berth and everything. It’s a boat club. Now, the state
is offering these facilities money to expend because of the recreational possibilities.
They want to increase the number of berths and make this type of recreation
more available. I have seen more new boats this summer and there is
a great demand for the facilities.
Me: One of the industries I’ve noticed around the area
is gravel. What part has gravel had to play in the making of Cheboygan?
QL: Well, we went through a major growth as the demand
for earthen products increased. We have a cement plant here in Cheboygan,
which started in a little tiny building and has now expanded to one of the
main cement sites in northern Michigan. Right now, we are making improvements
on the main street, and it’s supplying all the cement.
Me: Tell me about some of the people that have been important
in Cheboygan’s history. I understand that Max Levine was an interesting
character?
QL: Yes, Max Levine was one of Cheboygan’s first Jewish
citizens. He owned a brickyard in the town. The Swedish people
came to this area and discovered the lumbering industry because they were
very good workers. The Polish and the French came because of the agriculture
in the area. I taught in a school where the children were first and
second generation European. The Swedes, the Polish moved here fairly
early on – the French were traders. They were traders and they were
the earliest people to come here. I don’t recall any other major nationalities
moving into Cheboygan.
Me: Can you tell me a little about Mackinaw City and Mackinac
Island?
When did they start to influence the area?
QL: Mackinac Island was the first settlement in the area.
The Indians and the French people came here to trade. Then the English
interfered with the French and overcame the French, but the trading continued.
The Indians travelled down the Cheboygan River with their products and go
over to the island to trade. The French and then the English would send
their products to Europe. Since then, the island, has, as you know,
become a major tourist attraction and the City has grown too service that.
Me: Thanks. My last question is, what was
life like here in the winter?
QL: Well, we had a very high welfare programme.
I served on the Welfare Board for 30 years and I knew the economics of the
situation. Labour was in surplus in the winter time when the summer
season was over, because that was the only time their was an increase in employment.
So, they had to get direct welfare. It was an economic problem that
was gradually solved through the fact that our young people found other employment
and could raise their families here. Before World War 2, agricultural
employment became less important. So, young people that graduated from
the 8th grade didn’t have anywhere to go to work, so I encouraged them to
go to High School, and they did. And they went to Detroit or wherever
the employment was. They got jobs there and raised their families and
when they retired they came back to this area.
Me: Mr Lesley, thank you very much for your time and all
the information you have given me.