Atheist-Christian Debates


Debate #9: "I don't believe in God because prayer doesn't work."


"Why bother praying? God never gives you what you need when you need it! I need a million dollars! Would I get that by praying? I don't think so!"

This assumption is based on a confusion between wants and needs.

"If He really had your (or the sick person you are praying for)'s best interests in mind, then all prayers would be ignored...If God cares, and is not vain, he has to ignore the prayer."

No, only the prayers that go against God's will would be ignored, like if Buddhists or Moslems were praying that all the Christians would die. God knows what we mean. Even if we make a mistake praying, he knows what we really mean, and he goes by that, not what we say verbally. I mean, if you pray to get a car and a nice house, God will answer that prayer, but you have to be patient and wait for the answer to come. It says in the bible that the Israelites demanded God to answer their prayers quickly. God gave them what they wanted, but they received leanness of the soul because they were impatient. When you pray for others besides yourself, and pray for things they need, like healing, and not wants, like a new stereo system, God answers those prayers more quickly. Sure, it might sound convenient, but to be holy means to love spiritual, not worldly or earthly things. But God blesses his followers with good things, especially what they really need.

"If praying and singing ease your mind and stabilize your emotions, they aren't a waste of time."

I disagree. If no one's listening, there isn't a point to doing it. There are probably non-theistic methods I could be using instead, if that was the only thing I got out of it.

"God doesn't meddle in human affairs."

I don't know who made up that crummy rule, but it's a lie. While we have free will, God still interferes plenty in each and every one of our lives. He creates situations for us to grow and change and turn away from doing evil.

"If God meddles in human affairs, why then does He meddle in the insignificant, yet let mass-murderers kill and torture children?"

What's your definition of `insignificant'? God values all human beings, whether murderers or innocent people. God loves the sinner, not the sin. God wants repentence and faith in all people. He wants murderers to stop doing evil and to beg Him for forgiveness. And many murderers eventually do that. If you believed in the afterlife, you'd realize that death isn't the end, and that the child will receive comfort and a reward in heaven for his or her troubles. The tortured child also may be motivated by that background to do humanitarian work. God also works in the heart of the murderer, either causing him or her to stumble and do something which causes their crimes to end. Either that, or he will work in the hearts of law enforcement officials and citizens to bring the crime to an end. Really, who is the greater criminal? The murderer who kills the children who live next door, or the atheist or agnostic who doesn't concern himself with the lives of the children who live next door? Often the murderer is apprehended, due to their own stupidity, or killed by someone. God also works repentence in their hearts, causing them to see the error of their ways. They may end up repenting, and, if genuine, and if they do that sin no more, God will forgive them of their sins.

"Prayer isn't any good after you're dead."

It is if you believe in the afterlife. Prayer is basically conversation with God, so our talks with God here will be continued there.

"If mental influence worked, I'd be king of the world, or a talking kangaroo right now."

You're missing the point of prayer. While Christian Scientists believe that you can control your health or reality by repeating biblical phrases or special prayers, ordinary Christians agree that only God can accomplish these things. I believe he hears our prayers and answers them. So, maybe if you ask God nicely, he might make you a kangaroo creature, but it's not going to happen by the influence of your own will. Also, God gives us what we need, not especially what we want all the time, because he wants us to be holy. Not all of us are allowed to be as wealthy as Bill Gates, because having that much wealth would be spiritually suffocating anyway. With that much money, you can isolate yourself from everyone else, so you focus on only your needs and wants. God knows what's best for every person, so he allows the perfect amount of sustainance required for our situation, so that we can see the need to handle other people's needs as well as our own needs and the needs of family and friends.

"Of course prayer has nothing to do with mental influence. The results are the same as they would be in an uncaring, unfeeling, unnoticing, godless universe. Why? Because our biochemistry comes from predecessor creatures that survive under the rules for this place. When we leave our `home', we dont live long (try breathing water), and no religious belief (in any of them) will change that."

This argument presumes that things in life are governed by `luck.' If you look at the other side of the coin, you'd realize that many of those same events (the formation of the earth, the survival of the human race, etc.) can be interpreted as a miracle or the result of some spiritual intervention. It takes an imaginative leap of faith to believe that life is governed by random things, and it takes a leap of faith to believe that God causes miracles. So far, I have only heard of unprovable quantum theories about randomness governing the universe. Belief in randomness is no better than any other belief system. Furthermore, unlike other religions, the Judeo-Christian faith does not merely apply the `rules of nature' to our spiritual existence. Miracles are commonplace in this faith. Jesus defied nature by walking on water, calming the storm, raising the dead, coming back to life after dying on a cross, turning water to wine, making his clothing blindingly bright and summoning Moses and Elijah from heaven, as well as other things. Jesus could do that because he is the Son of God. If we ask things in his name, he will give them to us. While we have no mental influence over these things, since God does everything in his own time, it is not the same as saying `because life is governed by luck and chance events, prayers are only answered if you're lucky.' The apostles and later followers of Christ prayed to God, and miraculous things happened for them, and we as Christians receive the same. That makes prayer something more than just a `whatever happens, happens' type of deal.

"If you take an alcoholic friend to a casino, and you win something, equate his entreaties to you to be the same as a prayer to God. What happens if you stick to your position? What happens if you relent? If you stick (ignore prayer), he might shape up, but not like you. If you relent (heed the prayer), he remains a spendthrift, but loves you."

This is probably why people become atheists. They are like that alcoholic friend.

"The book says, `A Beginners Guide to Prayer, Praying for Wholeness and Healing?' Hurray for Christian Science! Yes, lets pray ourselves well."

If that involves actual medicine, and God's use thereof, instead of snake handling and the like, I see nothing wrong with that. The Norman Vincent Peale approach is the problem.