The start of any crusade means first a preparation of an army. Soldiers of the Old Testament
entered a crusade that way, likewise in our times, and in Revelation, according to the apostle
John's description. The Israelites camped around the Tabernacle before their march. Hence, to
understand the crusades is hard without understanding the Tabernacle (its services) and the
camp.
Moses described the Lord's armies were moving, as well as the army from people. It leads us to
conclude God's army also camped before their battles. The apostle John describes the situation
in Heaven (chapters 4 and 5) before any march started (chapter 6). Therefore, we need to consult
it if we want to understand other consequent crusades.
If Moses' camping was a pictorial of the Heavenly camping, only the teacher of the end times, who understands the principles of the Heavenly gathering, could go to the Heavenly crusades.log71
In looking at Moses' tabernacle, the Most Holy Place is there, and everything is concentrated to
it. Only a high priest could enter it. Still, he had to be as transformed in this position by an
offered bull and could enter only once in any year.
Some people see God's Throne there. (I Samuel 4:4) This should be a picture of God's dwelling
on the Earth because the Lord spoke with Moses from there. (Exodus 25:22) God's presence at
some place does not mean God's Throne is there. Seeing God's Throne like an ark and its
covering with two angels is hard. The Most Holy Place is close to the Throne only pictorially. It
shows our reconciliation with God through Christ Jesus before the Heavenly Throne like the Day
of Atonement pictures it. (Zechariah 3)
He sees and understands everything among the angels (God's angels and Satan's), and therefore, He pictures Himself as the mighty angel. (Ezekiel 10:14) He sees and understands everything among the birds, the animals, and the people as He would have the eagle's head, the lion's face, and the man's face. Therefore, the apostle John saw four faces (heads), the angel's, the eagle's, the lion's and the man's face.
Different faces (some men see four beasts there) are in order to understand comprehensively. In this way, He is capable of understanding each being. For the instance, we know God understands us better through His Son because He has been in the human flesh. Yet God understood people before the Christ. He comprehended us by this being also having humans' facial likeness; therefore, He sent His Son to save us.
Notice the apostle John did not describe an angel's face, but he saw it as a bull. Understand that distinguishing an angel's face from a man's face was hard because they are alike. Yet, we should also be like angels. (Mark 12:25) Ezekiel did the same in his first vision. (1:10) Then he corrected it in the chapter 10.
Some people want to see the Holy Spirit pictured in the Tabernacle. Because the Holy Spirit is in the creation and among Christians (John 14:16), his symbol should be the first one in the Sanctuary. Perhaps the Altar of Incense relates to Him the best. It has four horns. Priests burn incense while praising God. The Holy Spirit does the same (4:8), or Christians should praise God through Holy Spirit.
Anyway He is the second One on the Throne and in different likeness than the first One.
He saw Seven Spirits as they would likely be on the Heavenly Throne. (4:5) (Some people consider Seven Spirits to be the Second God of the Trinity - God the Holy Spirit.)
The Christ is the next connected to the Heavenly Throne (5:5-8). His identification cannot be doubted. Is it possible to have four beings on God's Throne? No. It is impossible. See and be not blind!
In the moment of Christ's coming on God's Throne, these two were united. The Seven Spirits immediately became the eyes of Christ Jesus. The explanation is clear. Christ Jesus in human form is not actually God, but the resurrected man. However, Christ Jesus having Seven Spirits is God the Son, so Christ Jesus in power of God. As the resurrected man, Christ Jesus could not come on God's Throne. He was a man. However, the Seven Spirits enabled Him to become God again. Here is the proof that the Lord Jesus Christ is God.
The Lord Jesus Christ also proved this by His words to the church in Sardis. "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God." (Revelation 3:1) If He holds Seven Spirits, they belong to Christ Jesus.
If you want to see God's Throne at Moses' tabernacle, then the Showbread (materials for eternal existence, first used for Jesus) and the menorah having seven lamps linked to him by Zechariah and the apostle John (as I already showed it) relates to him.
Tabernacle furnishing has also four furnishing but three levels. The Ark with covering is set on the highest level. Then Showbread table and the Menorah on the same level at the Most holy Place and then the Altar of Incense at the entrance.
Thanks God that we have John's vision! The Trinity is proved. No one can say otherwise neither
the child if already knows to read and count. How big Dark must be in our world when men and
women are not ably to count to three or four when open the Bible and read the fourth and fifth
chapter of Revelation. They know to read and to count but the problem is in their teachers
saying, Revelation is not for them to understand.
Moses pictured this as serving priests of the Tabernacle.
The Levites camped around the Tabernacle: Gerson, westerly; Kohath, southerly; Merari,
northerly; and Moses and Aaron, easterly.
Later David separated Aaron's descendants into divisions for their appointed order of ministering
in the Sanctuary. They were twenty-four divisions, each with a leader. So, twenty-four elders
existed for serving to Sanctuary. (I Chronicles 24: 1-19)
Interpreters of Revelation usually say the twenty-four elders around the Heavenly Throne are from men and therefore it is the big proof that the Rapture already happened before the fourth chapter of Revelation. I do not believe was so and will explain in the following section.
God's power goes from the Heavenly Throne to Its surrounding and continues to other parts of
Heaven till reaches the last part of the realm created by God and still being in God's interest.
Therefore must exist the surrounding of the Throne like earthly kings have their throne room.
There sit officers, and the king rules others through them.
Suppose a king sits on the throne but no one come to him, no one is in throne room. Could such
a king operate, could such a kingdom work? No. If something like this would happen then the
king is in prison and not ruling.
Then, if teachers say men are around the Throne from the Rapture (and the Resurrection), it is as
they would say no one was in the Throne Room before the Rapture. Then God's kingdom could
not function before the Rapture.log72
John sees small thrones around the God's Throne. They are seats and therefore things and not any beings. They had to be there from the establishing God's Throne, if I can say so. Were they empty before the Rapture? Did God see them empty till the Rapture. Did his power precipice with the border of the Throne before the Rapture?log73
Big decisions of any kingdom were made in throne rooms. For our case, the big decision was the Atonement. They brought Jesus' death, his offering before God's Throne, for God to decide. According to Zechariah 3, two mighty angels were there. It means that mighty angels could come before God's Throne.bib80
The mightiest angel was Satan and that is why he wanted to move his seat higher over other seats "I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly; I will make myself like the Most High" (Isaiah 12:13-14). I understand that he wanted to replace his seats from the Throne Room on the Throne or closer beside the God's Throne. Anyway, Isaiah said, mighty angels assembled around God's Throne.bib81
Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, he postponed the case to God's Throne. It means, Michael and Satan belonged among these before the Throne, belonged to the assembly around the Throne. God solved their personal controversies. (Jude 1:9) So, archangels ought to enter the Throne Room.bib82
Gabriel names Michael "one of the chief princes" (Daniel 10:13). If Michael is a prince, his seat is a small throne. A prince means a king's son. A king's son had a small throne at his father's throne to be with his father and to learn how to reign or help his father in rule. If our earthly princes could sit at the Throne, then likewise Michael has a place at the Throne.log74
Other archangel is Gabriel. His privilege is to stay before God. "I am Gabriel, whose place is before God," or "I stand in the presence of God." (Luke 1:19) The Bible testifies by this that one elder is the archangel.bib83
Gabriel's place must be at the Heavenly Throne. If any teacher says these at the Heavenly Throne are from men, where are Gabriel and other archangels? Whether does another throne room exist in Heaven to place archangels there? Or, if teachers say men are on thrones at the God's Throne then they must say there are twenty-three men.log75
The archangels have some authority from God. Their crowns speak so. Their authority must be God the Father's authority because they lay their crowns before God the Father. (4:10) They do not do so when the Lord Jesus Christ has come on the Throne to be God. (Revelation 5:8). If elders were men, their authority would be Christ's authority; therefore, they would lay their crowns before Christ Jesus. If the apostle John saw them lay their crowns only at God the Father, they are servants of God the Father.bib84
the Bible speaks about the archangel authority over others. When God called Michael to clean Heaven, the archangel Michael had authority over the other angels. He commanded them. (Revelation 12:7) If elders were from men, would they have any authority? Over whom? No one saw other people in Heaven in the chapter four and five. Are they just throne's puppets?log76
The Church and so their teachers understand the existence of angel ranks. Therefore, some angels should be distinguished from others by their coronets. That is why the archangels, or princes of angels, or the elders of angels have crowns. If teachers explain Revelation, they should also discuss where the angels and archangels are in John's vision of the Heaven. They should discuss whether the apostle John (who saw in detail faces of Being and riders of horses) could distinguish them or if God does not distinguish them? log77
To have a small crown, means also to have an authorized seat (throne) at God's Throne. Later, when the angels and the resurrected people were in Heaven, the elders stand before the angels, not before people. (7:11) Only Christ Jesus is in front of the resurrected people (verse 9).bib85
Should men (the twenty-four elders) introduce (bring up) Christ Jesus to God? They are there before Him. They were looking for Him (Revelation 5:3-4). If they were men, they would know where he is.bib86
One elder spoke to a weeping John, "Do not be sad: see, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome, and has power." (Revelation 5:5) I suggest that if the twenty-four elders are resurrected men, they must be in the same spiritual substance as the apostle John. Who is lost (loses his security) weeps. If a lost child does not see his father, he becomes sad and weeps. So, if John wept because there was no Christ, the elders were of a different spiritual substance because they did not weep. One must have the Christ to stay in Heaven, but the elder was not lost there, he was at home. Therefore, the elders cannot be from Earth. The apostle John were not their colleague yet that is why he must weep.bib87
The Lord Jesus Christ is the High Priest for people. It does not mean resurrected people are high priests. There can be only one. Moses shows the same, people had only one to be the high Priest. Only he could come before the Lord. Therefore, until the creation exists, only Christ Jesus from men can enter close to God's Throne, and no one else. Only He can stay there on behalf of people and nobody elsebib88
Is not this ridiculous? Once teachers taught that no one could stand alone before God the Father. Then, they taught they can stand there. Which do we believe? For the instance, they teach that everyone must come to the last judgment. God will judge every being according to his deeds. No one could be found righteous. People will be saved from punishment only if Christ Jesus covers them, if their names are written in His Book of Life. Therefore, no one without Christ Jesus could stand before God the Father, no one without Christ Jesus could stand before the Heavenly Throne. If he did, he must be condemned.bib89
People will come before God the Father because Christ Jesus will introduce His followers to His Father. This will be after the First Resurrection and the Rapture. However, Christ Jesus must stand before them. The apostle John described this moment in the chapter 7. Still, they do not feel at home at God the Father because cry, apologize for themselves, that their presence is God's will, they are saved because Him. (Revelation 7:10)bib90
Their home even after the Resurrection or Rapture is still on the Earth. Their dwelling in Heaven will be short, is called the Wedding Banquet. (The wedding does not last forever.) They should return also with their new dwellings. (Revelation 21:2)bib91
God created the Earth to be ruled by people. I think that means to rule the material and the
spiritual world. Today people rule the material world but that world is still not as is should be.
People do not rule only following God; they are often His adversaries. This is not the Creator's
will. The righteous management could be if the people of God would rule the Earth in a good
way. They will have such possibilities during the Millennium.
The spiritual world is complicated because we live in the material world. Yet we believe that if a
man died, flesh died. Yet his soul or spirit still lives. People used to accept that spiritual
substances of dead people stay close to Earth. At least people believed that before Christ Jesus.
(Spiritualists called souls of death people from the earth.) Those righteous in God could enter
the Eden after the Lord's resurrection. We may suppose the Eden is still a part of Earth because
those earlier believed that. However, we do not see it in the material world. Then it must be in
the spiritual world.
Angels must be in the spiritual world. Today they could be from God (Michael's army) and
Satan's (the dragon's army). The spiritual world of Earth will be cleaned at the Second Coming
of the Messiah. Christians know the Messiah will come with the resurrected and Raptured
people. The resurrected and Raptured will be as angels. Humans having eternal flesh will
enlarge God's army. Then the Messiah with the big army will clean the spiritual world from evil
spirits and evil angels. After this, the Earth will be prepared for God's intentions. Only those on
God's side will be in the spiritual world of Earth.
God's angels will not be on Earth because they will guard the evil angels in jail, and God created
the Earth for people. Nevertheless, someone must be in the spiritual world. I believe the people
with eternal flesh will be there. They will rule Earth from the spiritual world. Some will lead, so
they will have their own thrones, thrones of the Earth.log78
They used to give a crown after victory. A crown - a power over a territory - could be given to a leader who conquers such an individual territory. Likeness should be found at God. If a being fighting victorious battles under God's authority conquers some territory, he should get a crown over it. The elders from men should not get a crown over an individual territory because Satan is not bound at that point (they can just fight under Jesus's authority). John shows the preparation for the victory to capture Satan. (Revelation 20:2) bib92
Jesus "who holds the key of David," and if "he opens, no one can shut," tells the victorious at the Rapture (Philadelphia) that they will get the crowns of life. They will be resurrected into whatever form will enable them to be in God's presence forever. This will cause them to receive new names, which means they will be in the new flesh and the citizens of God's city, the new Jerusalem. (3:11-12) They should be pillars in God's Temple. That does not deal anything with the Heavenly Throne. The temple is a place where God dwells on Earth. According to Revelation 21:22, there is not a "temple in the New Jerusalem, because the Lord Almighty and the Lamb are its temple." Therefore, to be a pillar in the temple could mean to be in the Lord's presence on the Earth during the Millennium.bib93
Jesus' words to His people on Earth after the Rapture are to endure and you will rule. "To him who overcomes I will give the privilege of sitting down with me on my throne, as I also have overcome and have sat down with my Father on His throne." (Revelation 3:21) Those left behind should repent. If they would die, they go to the Wedding of the Lamb "I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." If they will survive, they should rule on the earth. These words "I will give the right to sit with me on my throne," (3:21) are for ruling on the Earth because Jesus introduced Himself as "the ruler of God's Creation." (3:14)bib94
First, to sit on my throne of the created Earth and after the Earth will not exist, you may sit also on a throne, a seat in the Heaven. Then you are not anymore just in the light of the Lamb but in the Light of the Lord Almighty. It means you are welcome at the Throne. They also will get the new names related to God the Father and so became the servants of God. (Revelation 22:1-5). Here, after the end of creation, may teachers put elders from men.bib95
The Messiah will rule the Earth and also divide His Kingdom and appoint rulers over them. A ruler will be distinguished by dignity. Those on the highest posts would have a crown. Logically, we first need to see Jesus Christ's esteeming (coronation).log79
Chapter 5 shows this. A coronation changes the image of a person by putting a crown on his head. Therefore, at Jesus' coronation, John saw the change: "I saw a Lamb . . . He had seven horns." (verse 6) Heavenly beings rejoice and call for His majesty. "myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands of angels, and in loud voices they were singing, 'It is fitting that the Lamb which has been offered in sacrifice should receive all power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.'" (Revelation 5:11-12) However, not just these Heavenly beings rejoice, but all creatures in Heaven, on Earth, under earth, and on the sea. (verse 13) Jesus Christ becomes the King of all. Why are not groups of people at the Coronation of the Lamb to sing for their Lord? If the Rapture and the Resurrection were before Christ would have the Heavenly Book, they must be there. Such esteeming is first the big rejoice among His followers. It is not just a private event (24 men).log80
John first saw twenty-four elders with crowns before the Lamb's Coronation. Logically, a theory is unacceptable if the followers are first coronated and then the ruler. Resurrected men are descendants of Christ Jesus and not Christ's forefathers.log81
Jesus foretold this in the parable. "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom . . . he returned home. Then he sent for the servants . . . in order to find out what they had gained . . . And he said unto him . . . take charge of ten cities." (Luke 19:12-17) Jesus taught He would go to Heaven to receive the Kingdom, to receive the crown (coronation). Then He would return (the Second Coming) as the King and give the faithful the power to rule over Earth's territories.bib96
What if God would punish those who forced men to be rulers in Heaven? They are teachers of
the end times forcing twenty-four men to be kings, even in the Heaven and forcing us to believe
this idea. If they will punish those who started to rule earlier or did not want Him to be their
King. (verses 14 and 27), then false teachers need to repent.
When he received the kingdom, he has returned to be with his servants. He does not sit on the
throne. From it, if the Lord Christ Jesus sits on the Throne, breaks Seals and reads commands,
He could not be with the resurrected and raptured people. And therefore the Rapture could not
happen till He sits on the Throne and holds the Heavenly Book.bib97
People are misled by "the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, having each of them a harp
and bringing golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." (5:8) They
sang the song that was the prayers of saints. Prayer is a devotional act. He who prays must
believe there is a being hearing his request. Otherwise, it is not a prayer but request in reality.
Since elders stay at God, that is why the authors of prayers must not be any elder.log82
Other words, harp, golden bowl full of incense, are symbols and tools and not the real mouth. The next celebration and praise come from the resurrected people after the opening of the Sixth Seal. The cried, "We are saved, thanks to You, our God who sits on the Throne and thank to the Lamb." (7:10) Singers are also authors of this song (do not need any harp, golden bowl full of incense etc.), and therefore, they were not in Heaven at opening the Heavenly Book.bib98
Twenty-four elders song with Holy Spirit, "the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp . . . " Both present the prayers of the saints. If both bring others' prayers, then neither are presenting their own prayers.log83
Already the Law said two persons should speak instead of one to be valid. (Deuteronomy 19:15). Two speak is some cannot.bib99
The elders and the Holy Spirit sang, "Because you were slain, and with your blood you
purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have
made them to be a kingdom and priest to serve our God, and they will reign on the Earth."
(Revelation 5: 9-10)
If these elders are from men and sang with the Being of Four Faces, then the Lamb died for
them. For that reason, it looks as though the Lamb also died for the Being of Four Faces. This is
impossible because the Being is in the midst of the God Throne, and therefore, it is impossible
that the elders are from men.bib100
They speak about men who will reign on Earth. They testify that a human must first rule on the Earth (if he wants a seat at the Heavenly Throne).bib101
Another meaning of it is, no one could still rule on Earth, according to them, because they say they will rule in the future. Therefore, they could not yet own a crownbib102
Elders are presenting the prayers with the Holy Spirit. It should be so according to the Bible.
Angels were coming with the message to people and from people in the Old Testament.
Patriarchs of Israel often noticed their companionship. Therefore, they are those who brought the
prayers of the saints to God the Father and not any men. They must still do so since promises to
Israel exist, were not fulfiled.bib103
The Holy Spirit is He who (sees and) hears everything and submits what the people need to God the Father. Teaching of the Gospels is Holy Spirit will make connection between believers and God. Even we should pray in Holy Spirit, use His inspiration and even use His spelling, tongues. If still Holy Spirit speaks instead Christians then the Rapture or the resurrection could not have been yetbib104
Since a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language stand before the Throne and in front of the Lamb, all the angels fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: "Amen! Praise and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God for ever and ever. Amen!" If elders would be from men, they must be among this great multitude consisted from every nation. They must sing together. But they not and therefore are not from men.bib105
Holy Spirit is silent, cannot speak instead Christians because are present. Therefore, the Rapture must happen in the period started by the opening the Heavenly Book and this gathering. Even this gathering testifies, that just the Rapture and resurrection have been.bib106
Elders answered to the apostle John but by a question. The elder has become the advisor, the speaker from now. He has substituted the Lord Jesus Christ because He is engaged with this great multitude. He leads them for the Wedding banquet. The Lord has postponed His authority to archangels till the end of the Heavenly Book. Angels are giving commands. However, in order to be in the authority of the Lord, they got trumpets. Trumpets as would be instruments for transferring angelic voice to Lord's voice. This is not so during the other Seals or Scrolls because the Lord commands there.bib107
Then, the celebration will come at the end of the Heavenly Book. The last angel sounded his trumpet, "and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever." And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and have begun to reign." (Revelation 11:15-17) Here only twenty-four sing. They are without Holy Spirit. This testifies, the Church already ended, Christians are with the Lord Jesus Christ on the Wedding of the Lamb. Twenty-four angelic princes sing because only now the promises to Israel are going to be realized. And it is time for great applause from Israelites! Therefore elders must still substitute them.bib108
They mentioned the Christ "the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ" what was not said in previous songs. At that time the Lord Jesus Christ was the God's Lamb and the ruler (the Head) of the Church. The Church still existed. But now He is going to be the Messiah for Israelites. They did not accept him early like the Messiah and therefore the Second Coming.bib109
"The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great-- and for destroying those who destroy the earth." Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant." (Revelation 11:18-19) Now can run the Day of Atonement for Israelites because John sees the Temple and the Ark of Covenant. The temple in Heaven does not exist for Christians (Revelation 21:22). Saying twenty-four elders are men, twelve from Israel and twelve from Christians, contradict to the timeline of the Heavenly Book and "Seventy". Israelites must come on the scene when Heaven decides so. If the vision of the temple in Heaven is now, then now crowns might have been set on twelve Israelites.bib110
To have twenty-four men to be God's princes is not in accordance with the Bible.
God pictured the human hierarchy at God by Abraham's offspring. Abraham had only Isaac with
his wife Sara. He was Abraham's heir. Isaac had two sons, twins Jacob and Esau. Jacob had
twelve sons, who were known in the Old Testament as the twelve patriarchs. Therefore, God's
people is pictured by twelve tribes in the Old Testament.bib111
The New Testament speaks of twelve princes. The Christ, as the King of Earth, chose twelve apostles. (Mark 3:14) He challenged them to rule over twelve groups of people. "'I solemnly tell you,' replied Jesus, 'that in the New Creation, when the Son of Man has taken His seat on His glorious throne, all of you who have followed me shall also sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel.'" (Matthew 19:28)bib112
If they will judge the twelve Israeli tribes, then Israelites will not have own rulers. The other
twelve elders from Israel do not exist in Heaven.
Having their own seats means they will rule. Certainly, He said those words for seats first on
Earth. Yet the twelve tribes were on Earth.bib113
Is it possible to change the Lord's testament, to change the number and to say that they are twenty-four? The Lord had taken bread and said to His 12 disciples, "This is my body do this in remembrance of me." (Luke 22:19) First we remember His body was changed, resurrected, and so will ours be. This shows His testament. Then, His material (body) is for twelve, broken into twelve pieces.bib114
Material for the resurrection is only for twelve groups like Moses pictured in the Tabernacle. "Take fine flour and bake twelve loaves of bread, using two-tenths of an ephah for each loaf. And put them in two lines, six in a line, on the holy table before the Lord. Along each row put some pure incense as a memorial portion to represent the bread and to be an offering made to the Lord regularly, Sabbath after Sabbath, on behalf of the Israelites, as an agreement made for ever." (Leviticus 24:5-8)bib115
There are not twenty-four loaves for people to be eternal beings. If these teachers see twenty-four as representing people in Heaven, then they should put it in the beginning of God's nation. They have to have their own sanctuary where they put twenty-four loaves of bread on the table of Showbread. Nevertheless, I believe in Moses, in twelve loaves of bread and hope that many do the same.log84
Concluding understanding to elders is, Satan fell after Jesus' victory, as well as after His
resurrection and entrance into Heaven. (It had to be after he lost the trial, according to Zechariah
3.) Satan was not alone; he had angels who followed him. Satan and those on his side should
follow him when Heaven is cleaned.
One-third of the angels followed him, according to chapter 12 of Revelation. This was a third of
the army, and so, a third of their chiefs. Consequently, we should substitute them but after the
end of creation. I suggest, that is why the Creation ran, in order to prepare substitution of them.
If the Bible says we will have twelve princes, then they will patch this hole of the twelve princes
after the final punishment of fallen angels. Therefore, twelve men can sit at the Throne in
Heaven only after the Last Judgment.bib116
First, the elders encircle the Throne. Then the angels encircle the elders and the Throne. Since the elders are archangels, archangels stand in front of angels. There are not other Heavenly beings according to the apostle John. He did not see resurrected people and therefore they are not there. Who says there are resurrected people he is not a biblical teacher. Yet it is impossible for the New Testament, for Revelation, for the apostle John do not show resurrected people there if they are there.bib117
The apostle John saw everything in Heaven: the Heavenly Throne, the archangels, and the angels. He also saw the souls under an altar in the Fifth Seal and the resurrected people before the opening the Seventh Seal. Therefore, he had to have seen people. If not resurrected then even in the spirit, waiting for their resurrection at the opening the Heavenly Book.log85
Did not the apostle John see anybody or anything more there? He saw still this: "And in front of the throne there seemed to be a sea of glass, resembling crystal." (Revelation 4:6:) Only this sea, clear as glass, I have not still identified. Putting the last thing in the last hole is easy if all others are at home. If they are not full Heavenly beings that could be seen in Heaven then they are spirits of people waiting for resurrection.log86
Spirits are without bodies, and they are waiting to be in the resurrected bodies. If they are many (they must be many) why not to appear as a large body of water or a sea. (Revelation 17:1) Flesh eyes could not see any spirit, spirits are transparent (do not interfere with photons) like clean water. If some uncleanness is in the water, it becomes muddy, not transparent. If they wait for resurrection, they must be righteous, and therefore, the sea is clean and clear. Clean, transparent waters look like glass. Still they are individuals and so some distinctions should be among them. Thus, the term crystal fits their gathering.log87
Let us look at people in Heaven from another side. We should be resurrected, and the Lord Jesus Christ should show us to His Father. So, the apostle John had to see where the resurrected people stand before the Heavenly Throne. If John could see this the same as others, then it is insignificant. If he described the Heavenly situation again, then it might bring something new.log88
John saw resurrected people at the opening of the Seventh Seal. (Revelation 7:9-10) They cried (sang) their own words. The Holy Spirit and archangels did not speak (sing) for them. They said Amen on their words. This is proof that the resurrection had happened.bib118
John saw victims under an altar at the opening of the Fifth Seal. I understand the decision
(whether people will be with God) was made by an altar (a picture from the Old Testament). So,
if they are under the altar, they await God's decision for acceptance. They are accepted. They
then are somewhere between the altar and God.
God told them to wait among the others until their number was completed. (Revelation 6:11)
There must be a place in Heaven where they wait for resurrected number to be completed. We
understand they are on God's territory, but not at the Heavenly Throne.bib119
They cannot be at the Heavenly Throne from two reasons. God represents fullness. Therefore,
only complete Heavenly beings can come to Him, only those having Heavenly bodies like
angels.
No one from Earth stayed before God the Father since Christ Jesus was not at the front of him.
At the Heavenly Book, John does not mention the crystal sea (in the chapter 5).
If the apostle John first saw the crystal sea, this was the earlier situation. At that time John did
not see God the Son on the Throne, just the Seven Spirits. This is because the Lord Jesus Christ
was not there (they were looking for Him). By other words, God the Son was there only in Spirit
(not in fullness). If only Spirit of God the Son was seen, then why not to see other spirits, other
uncomplete beings.log89
When the Christ Jesus has opened the Heavenly Book, John does not see the area of spirits. This
could be because the Spirit of God the Son was seen in the Christ, in the body and therefore also
other spirits have to be in (resurrected) bodies.
Also spirits might not be seen because they were farther from the Throne and waiting for their
resurrection in Eden.
The Eden was the garden of God, a Heavenly garden on the Earth. Through the Eden, God first
had connection to the Earth. Eden was connected to the Heavenly Throne (but on Earth). So
Eden would be farther from the Heavenly Throne.
The conclusion is that end-time theories proclaiming the resurrection runs before the opening the Heavenly Book are wrong because people are only in the spirit at that point. Spirits of these waiting for the resurrection were the crystal sea. Waiting for resurrection still was seen at the Fifth Seal. These spirits must wait somewhere. The apostle John described the place in Revelation 4:2-6.
Only those from the sea were changed because the apostle John does not see the crystal sea in detailed describing of Heaven (7:9-12) but the new group of people. So, they were changed and are eternal spirits in Heavenly bodies before the opening of the Seventh Seal. (They are complete beings - spirit + body)