Arguments about Religion

Critic:-

There is no way of proving that Religious ideas are true, especially when they contradict what we know to be true, e.g. science.

Comment:-

What you think to be true changes. This is not only because experiences change owing to the changes in the way of life produced by technology, but also because these experiences are interpreted and organised differently and different people put their attention on different sets of experiences according to different sets of motives. The nature of consciousness also changes because an age is dominated by certain basic ideas and attitudes.

Muhammad had experiences that he thought were true. He was known to be truthful and devoted his life to them. Muslims have no reason to disbelieve him. But non-believers say they were not true without any justification. They simply may not have understood what he said based on the presuppositions, motives and abilities they had. They were implying that he was either lying or deceiving himself.

Critic:-

There is a third option: the delusions were originating from his unconscious mind, so he was not lying to himself or to others. In our day many schizophrenics say they perceive aliens, spirits, whatever, and they are not lying. But see, their disease makes them perceive things that do not really exist. You are dismissing that possibility entirely in the case of Muhammad's revelations, because your psychology theory doesn't accommodate the unconscious?

Comment:-

My "psychology theory" that is compatible with Islam, distinguishes between the unconscious, the sub-conscious, the preconscious, the conscious, the self-conscious, the objective conscious and the cosmic conscious minds - 7 levels.

Human beings, who have the possibility of all 7 levels, are required to awake (5:52, 15:14, 34:46, 70:3, 79:14, 89:27-30, 90:11)and ascend the last four rungs in the ladder of consciousness.

The first three correspond to the mineral, vegetative and animal levels. The self-conscious mind corresponds to what in the Quran is called the Self-accusing soul (Quran 75:2). The other two are known as the Inspired Soul (34:2) and the Fulfilled Soul (89:27-30). The Self-accusing soul should be aware of the various mental mechanisms, normally in the pre-conscious that cause fantasies, prejudices, addictions, obsessions, compulsions, projection, and rationalisations etc. This stage must be passed before the Objective Consciousness can be reached. This can be regarded as awareness of what is normally in the sub-conscious or unconscious levels and refers to the fact that we are physically in interaction with the rest of the environment and the cosmos through chemical, biological, electronic, electromagnetic forces and the whole of the Quantum Field.

The Prophets and Messengers are persons who have experiences of the higher states of consciousness, though it is not claimed that they are permanently in that state. In so far as these higher states enter into the ordinary consciousness they could be like dreams that also consist of the entry of things into the conscious mind from lower levels. They would then have to be translated in symbolic terms both for the person himself and for transmission to others.

If something comes from their own pre-consciousness that is false and they accept it in their conscious mind then they are deceiving themselves. They have failed to distinguish between the external and internal source of their images. That is a disease. There are also physiologically induced sensations apart from psychological ones. The fact that all three kinds of images exist and are experienced is true. They are facts. It is also true that both can be interpreted and described in different ways.

When Schizophrenics say they perceive things that others cannot then that is called Hallucination and when they have false ideas that is called Delusion. Illusions refer to misinterpretation based on partial knowledge owing to fixations caused by fear, desire or fascination (hypnosis). This is a much more common malady. Ideas that contradict illusions, delusions and hallucinations tend to be rejected. In all cases sufferers become maladapted and this causes disabilities because it contradicts realities. The terms refer to disease. This does not apply to the Prophet.

But there are many things that some people can experience and understand that others cannot. That which they perceive is not called Hallucination or Delusion unless it causes disability.

However, these terms are falsely used by persons to describe whatever is beyond their own perception and understanding. It is not possible to know that something is a Hallucination or Delusion unless it is compared with something that is regarded as True or even just "Normal". What is regarded as true or normal is often taken as the average or a restricted range on either side. The greater the departure from the average the fewer are the people it applies to, so we have a decreasing percentage of people in any population that are increasingly sub-normal, and a decreasing percentage that are supra-normal. The Prophets and Messengers are extremely rare. Communities and nations can change so that the average point can move up or down and the range can expand or contract.

Critic:-

You say: The Prophet told us that the Quran was a revelation to him and we have no reason to disbelieve him. This is because he was known to be truthful. If he had been deluded that would have contradicted reality he would have been maladapted. Neither is true.

This is certainly not a proof. That what Mohammed presented to the people as the very word of God was in no way against what people at that time could believe was reality. His God was not new, neither were his stories about that God and the assumed intentions of his God. He more or less repeated that what older religions.

Comment:-

And why were the older religions believed?

You are repeating the same prejudices non-believers have been repeating for a long time. Why do you not read the Quran - it is unique. We know that the Quran affirms past revelations - Truth is Truth. But it presents it in a ddifferent way with many different notions and rectifies misunderstandings.

It is true of course that conditions of life, experiences, ideas, motives, attitudes and way language is used have changed so that it is more difficult for people today to understand what was written for people of a bygone age. But it is possible to "translate" the ideas into a form that the contemporary mind can understand and it has been done. If people in the past could understand something then it is perfectly possible for people today to understand it also. But there is simply nothing one can do for people who will not look and refuse to or cannot understand. Nor can your objections remove the perception and understanding of Muslims unless of course they too have not seen and understood.

Critic:-

The fact is that religions can have completely opposing viewpoints, yet all these religions manage to attract large numbers of followers that do not take the effort to look beyond their borders.

Comment:-

There is nothing surprising about this. The same is true about Politics, Philosophy, Science, Economics and every other sphere of human life.

We know that people have different motives, interests, amounts of knowledge, abilities and different physical and cultural environments, circumstances and experiences, all of which produce different ideas, view points and opinions. All have partial knowledge and different people have different parts and organise them differently. It is a question of moving towards greater knowledge and having a broader comprehensive framework within which one can interpret all experiences.

Critic:-

There is still is no way that a Christian can prove that a Muslim or a Hindu is wrong in his belief, neither can a Muslim prove that others are mistaken. The scriptures are simply too vague to be checked or to lead to one interpretation alone. Which means that no one can or could check or prove whether or not Mohammed had been speaking the truth.

Comment:-

I do not agree with you.

It is not a question of formal proof, but of insight. Islam does not say that other Religions are false but that they have been misinterpreted. It is a question of seeing what they have in common. The Scriptures are not vague, but human understanding is vague when it reads them superficially and selectively and forms fixations on extraneous doctrines or is conditioned by culture and geography.

The Prophet was followed because he was trusted and they saw something extra-ordinary in him and they understood what he was saying.

Though it is true that people tend to accept what they have been conditioned to by the surrounding culture this applies not just to religion but also to the political system, philosophies, art and even to science. Most of those who regard themselves as enlightened because they follow science have never performed the experiments and calculations that prove the ideas they accept. But many people accept and practice their religion because they understand the teaching.

However, it is also true that having accepted a teaching, or the way it is presented, they are mentally conditioned by it. Minds become "fixated", rigid and "crystallised" so that they are unable to understand a different formulation and, in fact, cease to make any further progress in understanding, even their own religion.

It becomes necessary to break out of this prison, expand the horizon of consciousness. That is what the series of revelations progressively does. Believe it not, Islam does create the final all comprehensive framework. You can verify it for yourself or not as you like or can.

People follow a religion for all kinds of reasons, but it is required that they should also be inspired by the teaching and understand it. As the Quran says:-

"The dwellers of the desert say: We believe. Say: You believe not, but rather say, 'We submit'; for faith has not yet entered into your heart; and if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." 49:14

"Nay, but it (the Quran) is a clear revelation in the hearts of those who are endowed with knowledge, and none deny Our revelations save the wrongdoers (or unjust)." 29:24

Religion has relevance to the people personally and each person requires to prove it for himself - the kind of formal, public verbal proof you require is quite irrelevant as it makes no difference to the life of a person or community.

Critic:-

Your arguments in response to criticism of Islam seem to be based on the notion that one is either Muslim or Atheist. Yet you don't address the issue of the many non-Muslims who do believe in God but without believing in the Quran.

Comment:-

What the Quran requires is the following:-

“Verily, whether it be of those who believe, or those who are Jews or Christians or Sabaeans, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and acts aright, they have their reward with their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.” 2:62 and 5:69

Nothing is said about belief in the Quran specifically or any particular Messenger or Prophet.

I and others, based on impressions that the Quran appears to give, do not believe that there are any true atheists. Everyone recognises something as supreme consciously, sub-consciously or unconsciously and subordinates himself or herself to it and pursue some kind of Ideal. One either believes in the Real God or a false god. Or perhaps more correctly, the concepts of God people have are various mixtures of the truth and falsehood. From the Islamic point of view the Real God, Allah is described in the Quran as the absolute unitary self-existing origin of all things and no thing is like Him.

Rationalists, including many scientists, tend to have a bias towards reason, when, in fact, there is sufficient information available to show that human beings have at least four sets of faculties - for (i) thought, (ii) feeling, (iii) action and (iv) perception. (In some circles 7 sets faculties are recognised, the other three being (v) instincts such as those that facilitate self-preservation, (vi) sexuality and (vii) the capacity for inspiration - that is, the ability to become conscious of the more powerful sub-conscious or unconscious processes and interactions with the environment.  

It is not difficult to see that human beings, in order to live, require knowledge, motives and abilities to do. Knowledge depends on the data of perception and data processing. Perception, motives and abilities vary and are certainly not the same as reason, though intelligence refers to them. Reason refers to data processing and also varies between people and it has a direction determined by motives which depend on perception. In general, reason will go where ever motives lead it, though the three faculties are interdependent and reason can be applied to motives also. But data processing is more than reason and there are modes of data processing other than through conscious reasoning. Our life depends mainly on unconscious data processing. Reason will go where ever motives lead. Action too, which modifies the social and physical environment as well as the psychology of the person himself, is also based on motives and may or may not use reason.

Reasoning consists of comparing and linking by analysis, association and synthesis. When perception and thought are concentrated on the parts or the connection between parts this may well inhibit the capacity to see the whole picture. The pattern and the underlying unity is not seen as the forest is not seen because of the trees. We are living in an age where the number of things requiring attention, material, organisational as well as ideological have multiplied so much the awareness of the whole pattern and the underlying unity is lost and each has only a partial view and different people see different parts. More effort is required to hold a Unitary Framework and fit all experiences into it in a self-consistent manner. It requires a mind with an enhanced capacity for synthesis. Nevertheless, people do have this capacity to various degrees. 

Religion is concerned with the whole man and not just with the intellect and with the whole of experience and the whole of the environment with which we interact. It is concerned with human adjustment to Reality as a whole. It is concerned with channelling human energy in useful self-development channels.  It arose when human beings became conscious of themselves and their surroundings. It is not difficult to see that because human beings are part of a much greater Reality with which they interact and on which they are dependent that their welfare will depend on how well they adjust to Reality and that this requires appropriate perception, motives and actions. Religion is a deliberate conscious comprehensive, self-consistent way of life as opposed to an accidental one. It is Evolution become conscious.  

However, human beings have various degrees of limited amount of consciousness, conscience and will (self-control) and intelligence, and therefore, limited amount of knowledge, motivation and ability. AS personality types vary people also vary in their ways of perception and information processing, interests and ability. They also vary in the amount of prejudices, superstitions, fantasies, habituation of thought, feeling and action, rationalisation of desires and narrow self-interest. They also vary in the amount and direction of their interests and efforts at acquiring knowledge. The opportunities and facilities that their social and physical environment provides also vary. 

All this accounts for the differences in Religion. But Religion as a phenomenon is everywhere the same and in so far as it is not corrupted by human limitations and has an evolutionary effect. this should lead to the expansion of each human being. The tendency is then towards comprehensiveness and therefore, to unity. But we cannot expect uniformity at any of the many stages before full comprehensiveness is reached. In fact diversity ensures that collectively human beings approximate full comprehensiveness.

It is asserted by some Biologists that because morality is an evolutionarily built-in feature of human beings then no Religion is required. They do not say the same of the Law which all nations find necessary. Why then there so much crime, perversity and immorality among human beings? The fact is that human beings are not only a product of genetics, but consist of an interaction of three factors, namely (a) the inherent genetic (b) the experienced - that acquired from the psychological, cultural and physical environment and (c) the results of personal efforts to process and learn. It is these physical, mental ad spiritual efforts that create a great number of inventions, organisations, philosophies and all kinds of fantasies, justifications, rationalisations and ideologies. And these transform not only the environment but also man.

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